Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dave0123 on May 31, 2013, 06:38:42 pm

Title: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: dave0123 on May 31, 2013, 06:38:42 pm
Hi,

I still think am a bit slow with wfp been using good few years now but only recently have i been fully 100% wfp user.

Any tips on speeding up with it? how many times do you go over the glass? scrubbing there's not really many video's out there showing you how to speed up on the water fed pole side of things.

Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: andyM on May 31, 2013, 06:40:59 pm
1. Work with a high flow rate
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on May 31, 2013, 06:43:45 pm
+1.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: dave0123 on May 31, 2013, 06:51:04 pm
Quote
1. Work with a high flow rate


How many liters do you have coming out the top of the brush? per min
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: SunShineCleaning on May 31, 2013, 06:51:43 pm
The other 2 are correct that a higher flow rate will help. However, I would work at a pace that suits your age etc and simply price higher.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Peter Fogwill on May 31, 2013, 06:55:10 pm
+2

But don't let on to anyone in here though, they will tell you your wasteing water.
Double your flow from that you normally use and either go across the glass half the times you normally do.  If the window needs the amount of contact with the glasd as before, then just move the brush at double the speed you normally do.  Result will be windows done in half the time with the same amount of water and battery power used.
It really is that simple.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: rg1 on May 31, 2013, 07:01:11 pm
+2

But don't let on to anyone in here though, they will tell you your wasteing water.
Double your flow from that you normally use and either go across the glass half the times you normally do.  If the window needs the amount of contact with the glasd as before, then just move the brush at double the speed you normally do.  Result will be windows done in half the time with the same amount of water and battery power used.
It really is that simple.

Waste of water if you ask me  ;)
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: ascjim on May 31, 2013, 07:01:17 pm
move your arms quicker ;)
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: bobplum on May 31, 2013, 07:16:50 pm
i do think this area of cleaning needs looking at.

a school of thought says that if you use fan jets, which normally run on a higher flow rate you may cause spotting,there are a few videos explaining this.(perry tait,jr racenstein)

if you use a pencil jet.normally a slower rate and cascade the water down you get less spotting,so the other theory goes.

i have for the last two weeks been varying in between and i have come to the conclusion i am more happy with a fan jet on a higher rate.

i feel i get more work done, i have not seen any increase in spotting, i may be wrong.

if you want to save water but use fan jets then gardiners low pressure fan jets are good,less water usage but still get a good "fan" effect
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: dave0123 on May 31, 2013, 07:35:40 pm
thanks il try upping the flow, i think its more the fact am uncertain if its clean or not so carry on scrubbing.

Is it right that you clean all of the  frames first? or is better to just clean the top if the window frame first then clean the rest of the side bar of the frames when doing the glass?
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: andyM on May 31, 2013, 07:37:08 pm
Clean the frame and glass at the same time.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Lee GLS on May 31, 2013, 07:43:51 pm
Frames do not need cleaning every clean, unless of course you have said to you customer that you will clean every time.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Positivity on May 31, 2013, 07:46:21 pm
I'd say from numerous tests etc. It's the rinsing not the scrubbing - its easy to underestimate the amount of rinsing actually needed.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: PAUL ERITH on May 31, 2013, 07:54:03 pm
Hi,

I still think am a bit slow with wfp been using good few years now but only recently have i been fully 100% wfp user.

Any tips on speeding up with it? how many times do you go over the glass? scrubbing there's not really many video's out there showing you how to speed up on the water fed pole side of things.



Your not the only one thats slow but i'm getting there

My problem at the moment is i have no confidence in The Super Lite Brush Dual-Trim - Medium Mixed Bristles brush i have, i hate it on leaded windows to the point i have caught a few bits of lead with the bristles and had to glue it back  :-\ :-\

Thinking about getting a sill brush or extreme medium mixed brush not sure yet

Paul
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: andyM on May 31, 2013, 07:55:19 pm
I'd say from numerous tests etc. It's the rinsing not the scrubbing - its easy to underestimate the amount of rinsing actually needed.

I find that's why a high flow rate helps.
On hydrophilic glass I only rinse the top 6" of the glass after scrubbing and let it sheet down.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: rosskesava on May 31, 2013, 08:01:25 pm
Put go fast stripes on the brush and pole.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: ascjim on May 31, 2013, 08:33:03 pm
Put go fast stripes on the brush and pole.

Tried it and it works!
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: elite mike on May 31, 2013, 08:40:23 pm
Hi,

I still think am a bit slow with wfp been using good few years now but only recently have i been fully 100% wfp user.

Any tips on speeding up with it? how many times do you go over the glass? scrubbing there's not really many video's out there showing you how to speed up on the water fed pole side of things.



Your not the only one thats slow but i'm getting there

My problem at the moment is i have no confidence in The Super Lite Brush Dual-Trim - Medium Mixed Bristles brush i have, i hate it on leaded windows to the point i have caught a few bits of lead with the bristles and had to glue it back  :-\ :-\

Thinking about getting a sill brush or extreme medium mixed brush not sure yet

Paul

hi paul,
i use the dt flocked original on leads etc  8) its a good all rounder which i have found to be the best.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: dave0123 on May 31, 2013, 08:52:12 pm
Quote
Your not the only one thats slow but i'm getting there

My problem at the moment is i have no confidence in The Super Lite Brush Dual-Trim - Medium Mixed Bristles brush i have, i hate it on leaded windows to the point i have caught a few bits of lead with the bristles and had to glue it back   

Thinking about getting a sill brush or extreme medium mixed brush not sure yet

Paul

hi paul,
i use the dt flocked original on leads etc   its a good all rounder which i have found to be the best.

i use the soft extreme brush good on leaded
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: dave0123 on May 31, 2013, 09:36:14 pm
Quote
Frames do not need cleaning every clean, unless of course you have said to you customer that you will clean every time.


I do say to my customers i clean the frames every time, there always clean though i suppose they only need  a quick wipe over with the brush to maintain them.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: mark dew on May 31, 2013, 09:47:00 pm
Unless there's debris on the glass you won't need to rinse if you have a higher flow rate. You also shouldn't need to clean every frame every time.
Zig zag the brush once down the glass should be enough for most windows.

But if you didn't use wfp all the time and are now doing so, your speed will increase naturally anyway.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: dave0123 on May 31, 2013, 09:53:37 pm
what do you call a high flow? roughly how many liters do you use per min
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: CleanClear on May 31, 2013, 10:39:46 pm

Any tips on speeding up with it? how many times do you go over the glass? scrubbing there's not really many video's out there showing you how to speed up on the water fed pole side of things.
The truth is once your first clean is out the way and the frames have had a thorough scrubbing out then any ongoing cleans only need a minimal wipe. If you're a concientious type cleaner then you'll almost naturally want to stay scrubbing longer to do a good job. The fact is, a quick wipe over will do you. Unless there is an obvious problem on a window i.e bird fouling, gutter splash, egg etc a window will only need a quick pass over and quick rinse.
 Try a nfew speed tests on your own house or familys house to test just how quick you can go.I'd guess more than half of wfpolers spend to long on a house.(from what i've seen).
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: mark dew on May 31, 2013, 10:42:37 pm
what do you call a high flow? roughly how many liters do you use per min

as in having a pee after a few pints compared to normal.  :)
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: richard jagger on May 31, 2013, 11:08:47 pm
I have heard all this crap of saving water on here. Scrubbing and all the time its flow rate that makes the difference.3+
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on June 01, 2013, 01:56:11 am
Dave come out with us for a day
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Mike #1 on June 01, 2013, 05:57:54 am
Frames do not need cleaning every clean, unless of course you have said to you customer that you will clean every time.

I clean frames every time otherwise you could be be setting yourself up to fail .

Their is certain houses in certain locations were it is possible to get away with it , But with the winter we had with strong winds bringing across salt plus with the winds we have had it picks up a lot of dirt and it settles on frames .

So over past few months i have been a little more through ie main roads , houses near new builds (they have been a nightmare) so a quick wipe over is not always the best idea .

The key is flow rate i have 1mm pencil jets and run my pump at 25 and can still get through a full days work worked 11 hrs the other day doing houses and 2 big commercial's and still had water in my 400 ltr tank .

Some windys are afraid of a higher flow rate incase they run out of water because of not having a big enough tank . Mike
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Lee GLS on June 01, 2013, 07:39:40 am
Frames do not need cleaning every clean, unless of course you have said to you customer that you will clean every time.

I clean frames every time otherwise you could be be setting yourself up to fail .



I've never had a problem! There are window cleaners that ONLY ckean the glass, I'm sure jeff brimble only cleans the glass, and he only uses about a thimble of water per window.

We are brainwashed into thinking we need to ckean the gram every time, because that is what everybody says on here, but if you know what you are doing it easy to clean just the glass without the water touching the frames.

It's an overkill and wastes time. Since my first cleans, I have never had a complaint in 3 years of WFP, so I must be doing something right.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Positivity on June 01, 2013, 07:43:26 am
Any thoughts on this?
I have started washing the top horizontal frame and rinsing it BEFORE I start washing the rest of the frames and glass. In the hope that it will have more time to run off and less chance of nasty runs coming down after.
Seems O.K. so far.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: rg1 on June 01, 2013, 08:28:59 am
I've always been under the impression that ALL frames, cills & glass are cleaned with wfp. (As described on many websites)

Therefore, if I was a customer, I would expect that to be the case with every clean.

Not as and when the window cleaner feels like doing them.  ???

I think some of you move the goal posts just to suit yourselves.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Lee GLS on June 01, 2013, 08:32:20 am
I've always been under the impression that ALL frames, cills & glass are cleaned with wfp.

Therefore, if I was a customer, I would expect that to be the case with every clean.

Not as and when the window cleaner feels like doing them.  ???

I clean the cills every time, and the frames get a thorough clean on the first clean, but i do not clean the frames every time afterwards.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: rg1 on June 01, 2013, 08:33:45 am
I've always been under the impression that ALL frames, cills & glass are cleaned with wfp.

Therefore, if I was a customer, I would expect that to be the case with every clean.

Not as and when the window cleaner feels like doing them.  ???

I clean the cills every time, and the frames get a thorough clean on the first clean, but i do not clean the frames every time afterwards.

So I've got to ask Lee. Why the cills everytime and not frames?
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: rg1 on June 01, 2013, 08:42:32 am
M & M Window Cleaning..where did you buy 1mm pencil jets from?
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Lee GLS on June 01, 2013, 08:59:38 am
I've always been under the impression that ALL frames, cills & glass are cleaned with wfp.

Therefore, if I was a customer, I would expect that to be the case with every clean.

Not as and when the window cleaner feels like doing them.  ???

I clean the cills every time, and the frames get a thorough clean on the first clean, but i do not clean the frames every time afterwards.

So I've got to ask Lee. Why the cills everytime and not frames?


The cills get dirty because of the way the are facing, the frames do not get dirty, lets face it, most of the glass on 4 weekly cleans is not dirty, we are just cleaning clean glass  :D
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: dazmond on June 01, 2013, 09:05:48 am
high flow

squirt water on birds mess  as soon as you arrive at a property

use a van mount with 100m hose and aqua-daptor

use WFP on both top and bottom windows unless space is restricted.

slow down a bit though if customer is in and the job is very well priced!! ;) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: gary999 on June 01, 2013, 09:46:42 am
on most maintenance cleans unless godzilla has crapped
on the window or on a busy main road a quick scrub and
rinse is enough.no need to dramatically increase your flow

most important thing is to have confidence in what you
are doing.i see a lot of guys by me either spending too much
time cleaning the window or having tsunami waves of water
flowing off the windows

its just a waste of the resource you have that makes
you money.

if you have been cleaning the houses for a long time
simply reducing the time on each window should be enough
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Spruce on June 01, 2013, 10:48:08 am
M & M Window Cleaning..where did you buy 1mm pencil jets from?


If my memory serves me, he adapts these:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/clarke-pack-of-5-1-0mm-welding-tips

Gardiners sell 1.4mm jets which are half the size of the 2mm jets flow rate wise.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Mike #1 on June 01, 2013, 10:51:01 am
M & M Window Cleaning..where did you buy 1mm pencil jets from?


Google Clarkes 1mm welding tips they sell loads on ebay they fit nicely into gardiners brushes without the,need to drill anymore holes just quick replacment been using them for over a year now . Mike
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Spruce on June 01, 2013, 11:10:45 am
I was one of these cleaners who couldn't get my head around what Peter Fogwill was saying with regard to increasing water flow reduces cleaning time.

He is right, but I have also found in my case that if I turn my controller up too high, I do use more water and don't achieve much more. The ideal for me would be a slower flow on the wash and scrub and a faster flow on the rinse.

I also put this down to my age and health, as I can't physically keep up with the speed needed to work on a full flow. So for me, what works in theory doesn't always work in practice as other things come into play, especially after I have been working for a couple of hours.

In the early days I started off with Peters tailer system. We had a Vikan brush with Unger Teleplus poles and 3mm jets. 1/2" garden hose was the supply medium. I carried and extra 100 litres in barrels in the van and would get through all my water by early afternoon (475 litres). As I was processing water directly into the trailer overnight, I couldn't go back for a refill. I could never get Peter's by pass valve to work for me TBH.

When Williamson's brought out the Varistream flow controller, turning down the flow rate reduced our water usage and I accomplished more
with less water, so you can see how Peter's advise didn't make sense to me.

My son loves our backpack as he finds hose management very frustrating and time consuming. But the time he saves pulling his hose out to start cleaning is lost with his slow rinsing time. I find the flow rate painful when using it occassionally.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on June 01, 2013, 11:14:39 am
The ideal for me would be a slower flow on the wash and scrub and a faster flow on the rinse.

Tap?
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Spruce on June 01, 2013, 11:33:56 am
The ideal for me would be a slower flow on the wash and scrub and a faster flow on the rinse.

Tap?

Yes - that's what we did use to regulate the flow, but we experienced pressure switch failures due to pump cycling. A 3.8 litre Shurflo pump was better as it didn't cycle as much, but the flow controller was the best thing since sliced bread for us.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: lal on June 01, 2013, 12:14:24 pm
high flow

squirt water on birds mess  as soon as you arrive at a property

use a van mount with 100m hose and aqua-daptor

use WFP on both top and bottom windows unless space is restricted.

slow down a bit though if customer is in and the job is very well priced!! ;) ;D ;D ;D

+1
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: mikeyfaerosyth on June 01, 2013, 02:09:56 pm
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmyou got too go with the flowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww high flow that is.keep movin
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: Peter Fogwill on June 01, 2013, 02:12:27 pm
The ideal for me would be a slower flow on the wash and scrub and a faster flow on the rinse.

Tap?
AquaTap? That is one of the features. You can turn the flow down, up, off, on without your eyes leaving the glass, or your hands leaving the pole.

If you wire up a simple relay then it makes no difference if your pump cycles or not, the stronger purpose built relay is taking the hit instead of the little pump switch. If you do burn out a relay, which takes some burning out, then it only takes less than a minute to replace it. 
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: mikeyfaerosyth on June 01, 2013, 02:20:04 pm
anyone know how to delete my post? as its taking up too much room.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: keyser soze on June 01, 2013, 03:54:06 pm
1. Work with a high flow rate




-1
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: DG Cleaning on June 01, 2013, 05:58:14 pm
I'd like to speed up also.
I scrub the frames then 2 agitations of the glass with a bit
extra at the top and bottom of pane.
Then rinse side to side moving down about 15cm with each pass, less if its the type of glass that cascades
Then 2 or 3 passes of the cill
All on full flow.
Does this sound about right? ;D
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: MATT BATEMAN (OWC) on June 01, 2013, 06:18:46 pm
sOUNDS GOOD TO ME.
Title: Re: Speeding up with wfp
Post by: DG Cleaning on June 01, 2013, 11:07:16 pm
Thanks ;D