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UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care on February 24, 2006, 09:31:46 pm

Title: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care on February 24, 2006, 09:31:46 pm
What's this I've heard? Woodbridge sell a piece of kit that Super-purifies water (which allegedly is what microsplitting solution is- according to them). Anyone else heard of this?

Alan
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: gwrightson on February 25, 2006, 10:29:38 am
must have a word with the window cleaning lads then ;D
dont they use pure water ;) 
 geoff
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: spinnaker on February 25, 2006, 06:33:38 pm
I doubt m/s are as simple as purified water,  in the dilution process this would mean adding purified water to un- purified water the result surely being water with impurities in?

Paul
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Karl Wildey on February 26, 2006, 05:14:51 pm
interesting lack of replies, we all have no idea what we are using. If Alan is right, can we all make life a lot simplier for our selves and make our own m/s.
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Doug Holloway on February 26, 2006, 06:16:08 pm
Hi Guys,

I'm pretty sure MS contain a large chunk of STTP, sodium tripolyphoshate or if not another similar sodium salt.

It would certainly be possible to buy some and experiment.

cheers

Doug
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: carpetclean on February 27, 2006, 06:50:34 am
i am led to believe that micro splitters are just  purified water with a little adative but the addative is not needed and was informed that woodbridge sell a system that makes it. i am also told that some window cleaners use such a system and do not use  detergent just water for a smear free finish !???  i am intrigued to know if anyone has one of the systems fitted for carpets and how good it is.
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: BRSL on February 27, 2006, 10:34:21 am
I think it's experiment time

How would I purrify water, I already use a water softner wich i see most window cleaners using

maybee we have been agitating tap water ha ha what a scam.

I was with Nick from soultions on Friday and said to him that I had a herd you could almost drink a M/S
So he took a swig from a No 3 didnt look to pleasent though  ;D ;D ;D

James
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Doug Holloway on February 27, 2006, 01:01:19 pm
Hi Guys,

To clarify MS are not purefied water but are the phosphate part of the cleaning chemical mix.

They are undoubtedly sodium salts , you can tell this by burning some of the crystals which precipitate out of solution , a yellow flame indicates sodium.

My solution no.2 has a large amount of precipitate , white powder in the bottom , which would indicate a close to saturated solution which is the opposite of the window cleaners wfp water where they lower the TDS , total dissolved solids.

The reason you can drink MS is that they are food grade products , STTP is used in toothpaste and many processed foods.

However no chemical is completely safe and good practice would not recommend trying to impress a customer by drinking MS in front of them.

Ed Crawford , the so called inventor of MS was apparently the first to prove the safeness of his chemical by drinking it.

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Graeme@Access on February 28, 2006, 08:14:39 am
Hi,

ooooo a chemistry post, i do love them.  8)

IT appears that MS are (like Doug says) mainly Sodium tripoly phosphate.  Look at prochems MSDS for its splitter,

http://www.prochem.co.uk/safety%20data%20sheets/sdsc409.pdf
>30% sodium tri poly phosphate
<5% Di sodium Phosphate
<1% Fluorochemical wetting agent.

You got to love prochems honesty and the fact its 4 times cheaper per litre of normal strength splitter than other brands.

Hope this helps
Graeme
Access Cleaning Solutions
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Doug Holloway on February 28, 2006, 12:32:32 pm
Hi Guys,

Excellent spot Graeme.

It would appear that the STPP is essentially the cleaning agent ,  with Di Sodium Phosphate acting as a buffer and the flourochemical wetting agent , wetting!!

The wetting is self explanatory and the buffer is used to keep the cleaning agent at its optimum pH when applied to a substrate.

I wasn't even aware Prochem sold this.

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Doug Holloway on February 28, 2006, 01:08:31 pm
Hi Again,

It would appear Prochem have stolen an advantage by selling the solid ingredients and therby saving loads of money ,  by not transporting water all over the place :o

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Graeme@Access on February 28, 2006, 02:38:08 pm
Hi,

We have a tub of Pure Clean and have used it in bonnet with a set of Charly pads.  Results were good, so maybe worth a look if you use a lot of splitters.

It does also save carrying water, which is one of my pet hates.

Cheers

Graeme
Access Cleaning Solutions
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Kinver_Clean on February 28, 2006, 03:56:16 pm
We clean windows as well as carpets and use deionised water in our pole systems. We aim for zero Total Dissiolved Solids but tolerate up to 5 parts per milliom.
I understand that someone has tried using this on fabrics with result of leaving them very clean but with a lot of colour loss. I do not know where or who told me or who did it. 
A customer of mine says he can formulate 'non detergent cleaning agents' and can supply the ingredients at about £100 per ton, minimum order 10 tons, plus carriage. I think I'll still buy mine in 20 litre lots.

Trevor
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Bernard Hibbs on March 01, 2006, 08:06:02 am
Someone should see if they use MS in the USA.  There, at least in some states, they have whats called "right to know" where they have to list the chemicals used in every product. 

You should be able to get hold of it somehow. 
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Doug Holloway on March 01, 2006, 08:16:03 am
Bernard,

I believe STPP is banned in the USA and (Sweden) which is why we do not see 'Microspitters' from the states.

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care on March 01, 2006, 08:21:59 am
Mornin all,
I thought this stuff was considered food grade. There must be something unpleasant about it for countries to ban its use.

Alan
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Doug Holloway on March 01, 2006, 08:37:46 am
Hi Guys,

STPP was banned in laundry products because it is believed to use up oxygen in water ,  causing polution.

Some claim that the alternatives , principally Zeolite are ineffective and therefore more poluting as larger quantities are required.

With science there are always side effects and claims of safe chemicals etc are marketing only.

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: gwrightson on March 01, 2006, 03:31:12 pm
Doug, im not to sure micro spittwrs are banned in the state!!!
i was of the understanding that they did use them, but they were called a different name,
I may well be wrong, im sure somebody with contacts over there will correct me if i am wrong
 geoff
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Doug Holloway on March 01, 2006, 04:13:15 pm
Hi Geoff,

I understand they are banned in laundry products but are allowed in other uses such as food , toothpaste etc , not sure where carpet cleaning products fit.

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: john rees on March 01, 2006, 05:33:59 pm
I seem to remember them using them in the states and being called soap free procyon, used to have the link on the pc but it's out of date now I think :(
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: cleanmac on March 04, 2006, 09:54:21 pm
STPP banned in the USA? A compound used in the worlds best selling carpet cleaning powder.Also the only ingredient in a product called Procyon,widely available in the US.
Before I forget, Ed Crawford is no inventor but merely an introducer of a product of which he now is a licensed reseller.And microsplitting is no invention either.

Gullible
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Doug Holloway on March 05, 2006, 01:36:30 pm
Mac,

I said STPP is banned in LAUNDRY PRODUCTS :o

I worked in Research and Development for 6 years and we often considered which we were doing.

I would say MS was a development not an invention hence the 'ED Crawford the  so called inventor' ;)

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: HOMEMADE MICROSPLITTERS???
Post by: Graeme@Access on March 06, 2006, 01:05:09 pm
Hi,

STPP is probably banned in Laundry products as it has a very high BOD.  The biological oxygen demand (BOD) for simple phosphates is very high, so they should be treated before being relesed into the enviroment.

In simple terms, when anything is released in water streams bacteria/algae etc digest it.  In digesting the substance they require oxygen and take that from the water stream.  Basically, if the bacteria use a lot of the oxygen in the water, there is none left for the wildlife (eg fish or plants) so everything in the river dies.

Waste from your sink/washing machine is released (untreated) into water courses.  So using zeolites/silicates or phosphates in high concentrations then releasing them into water courses means there is not enough oxygen left for everthing else.

I have explained this so badly im pretty ashamed, but if you are interested then search for BOD and you will get a better explanation.  This is the main reason for pouring your waste down the sewer and not the drains.

Hope this helps

Graeme
Access Cleaning Solutions