Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: formb on May 15, 2013, 11:53:02 am
-
I have an issue with a customers door. I have been cleaning this house for 6+ years never had an issue. She phoned me up after last clean to say her door was streaky. I go back to re clean it but it's not streaks at all.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1368615096_1.jpg)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1368615115_2.jpg)
Even the letter box has been effected
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1368615120_3.jpg)
Any ideas? I tried to clean it with uPVC cleaner but it did nothing.
-
It appears that there is some kind of paint / coating on the door that has been damaged
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1368615335_4.jpg)
-
Better picture
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1368617696_1.jpg)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1368617702_2.jpg)
-
Much better so it is an Oak finish door never come across anything like this before apart from 2 pvc green doors which have a small amount of white staining in the wood grain effect .
Now i know we as windys always clean the doors but i would always recommend custys doing a little bit of cleaning as well .
In the last house we owned we had a black wood grain effect pvc door and every 8 weeks or so i would clean the door with something like Amorall dashboard wipes then went on to use a cleaner with UV protectants in and never had any problems and after 4 yrs door still looked brand new . Mike
-
I have spoken to the people who supplied the door. Not very helpful to be honest. They seemed to be aware of the problem (not my customers door, but other similar doors) and told me to try WD40?? I will give that a go tonight but I don't hold much hope for it.
-
Have you been using magica onego, g101, tfr, virosol or ubik2000?
-
Have you been using magica onego, g101, tfr, virosol or ubik2000?
The only time I've seen anything like that was when I was working with someone else cleaning up a first floor flat's windows and frames. He had scrubed the frames with a hard surface cleaner that contained sodium hydroxide (caustic soda which are in g101, magica one go, strong arm, etc).
After he'd rinsed down the upstairs window with wfp, the upstairs frames looked great when dry but the window frames downstairs and underneath looked exactly the same as in the picture although they were white and not oak colour.
It had also dried on the glass downstairs and it took loads of water and lots of arm work with those green sponge things to get it off the glass.
What we did about the streaks was to thoroughly clean up the downstairs window frames with the same stuff.
-
Have you been using magica onego, g101, tfr, virosol or ubik2000?
No just purified water. There is a frame round the door and windows either side they are unaffected.
-
What we did about the streaks was to thoroughly clean up the downstairs window frames with the same stuff.
Sorry I am confused by your post. Do you mean the streaks on the windows or the frames? By the same stuff do you mean caustic soda or green sponges?
-
So before cleaning it the last time it was fine,then you cleaned it as you normally do and this happen??
Have you ever in the past 12 months used anything apart from water??
-
Are you sure the customer hasn't used something on it after you've gone ??
-
How longs the door been installed??
Never seen this ever!!
-
So before cleaning it the last time it was fine,then you cleaned it as you normally do and this happen??
Have you ever in the past 12 months used anything apart from water??
No.
Are you sure the customer hasn't used something on it after you've gone ??
She says no and I have no reason not to believe her.
How longs the door been installed??
Never seen this ever!!
Me neither. According to the people who installed the door it's been in 8 1/2 years (still under 10 year warranty)
-
Has the door been painted ?
If so it just the paint breaking down over 8 years is good going without a repaint.
Have seen this in wooden painted doors if its the same problem then nothing other
than a repaint will do.
Has it been repainted since the last time you done them ?
I always allow at least 4 weeks before cleaning newly painted surfaces with pure.
I cleaned sills that had been painted a week before some of the paint lifted off like plastic
and some had marks like the ones your showing.
-
What we did about the streaks was to thoroughly clean up the downstairs window frames with the same stuff.
Sorry I am confused by your post. Do you mean the streaks on the windows or the frames? By the same stuff do you mean caustic soda or green sponges?
Both really. We used green sponges and the hard surface cleaner to clean off the streaks left by the hard surface cleaner that ran down both the windows and frames.
-
to me it looks like the glaze and colour fading leaving the base colour
-
The only time I have had this result was on a painted door when cleaned with G 101.
-
Has she had her door serviced?
Lubricated hinges/lock?
You say the side lights are unaffected.
It would lead me to believe that there was something (perhaps on the top rail) dried, like an oil or silicone etc then your water has 'reactivated' it and its streaked...
-
I have an issue with a customers door. I have been cleaning this house for 6+ years never had an issue. She phoned me up after last clean to say her door was streaky. I go back to re clean it but it's not streaks at all.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1368615096_1.jpg)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1368615115_2.jpg)
Even the letter box has been effected
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1368615120_3.jpg)
Any ideas? I tried to clean it with uPVC cleaner but it did nothing.
Don't use a standard UPVC cleaner on any foiled or coloured plastic. You can buy cleaners that are specifically made for foils.
-
iv seen a few letterbox flaps like that,some almost new. they never clean up with buffing
-
Don't use a standard UPVC cleaner on any foiled or coloured plastic. You can buy cleaners that are specifically made for foils.
Got a link?
-
Don't use a standard UPVC cleaner on any foiled or coloured plastic. You can buy cleaners that are specifically made for foils.
Got a link?
www.amazon.co.uk/Bond-It-solvent-cleaner-woodgrain-conservatory/dp/B006VCS3JG
Same stuff i use, but i get mine from www.mywindowmate.co.uk, but they don't advertise it on the site, have to ask for it.
-
Cheers. I'll give that a go.
-
Cheers. I'll give that a go.
:)
-
looks like u have got water behind some sort of varnish it all most looks like blistering or something
-
do you use hot water if so did u have your hot water up to high :-\
-
Cold water. Its not blistered, just looks faded.
-
It cannot be anything to do with water otherwise rain would have the same effect.
There has to be some type of chemical involved.
-
I Know i was not much help but how come it gets to a 2 page topic and nobody looks at the photo's and works out it is a wood grain oak effect pvc door ??? ??? . Mike
-
Showed my mate this pic and he's says he had the same thing happen last year on a black wood grain door.. Custy called him back to see it and it was only water used.. They canceled on him and he never got to the bottom of the problem..
-
has she not had any work done on the wall above the door?
ive also got a few customers letterboxes that have gone like the one in the pic although i just go over with a cloth not wfp so its not the pure water.
maybe your brush was contaminated? ??? ???
let us know if you find out whats caused the problem mate.
dazmond
-
has she not had any work done on the wall above the door?
No. I had the same thought as you, first thing I checked.
-
Maybe some Sarin drifted over from Syria? That's terrible for uPVC, that stuff.
-
Try vinegar,if not then t-cut.
-
Hi Guys, I have seen this problem many times and its usually as a result of cleaning with high alkaline based cleaning chemicals which are caustic and corrosive, these type of harsh cleaning chemicals cause detrimental damage to many surfaces from continuous use. Unfortunately from my experience of this problem I don't think there is any cleaning solution to rectify it (I think for the customer its either paint the door or change it)
I'm not trying to preach to people here but this is something we have come across many times , it is the reason why we always recommend to our clients safe cleaning solutions based on colloidal micelles technology one of this centuries most promising advances in cleaning science, they are non-caustic,non-corrosive,non-toxic, and can be used safely to clean any surface washable with water, for this type of cleaning we would recommend a micelles based heavy duty degreaser , we have supplied this to many window cleaners who use it with their wfp systems on very dirty windows and they swear by the results.
Looking at those pictures it definitely looks to me that someone has used some sort of harsh cleaning chemical to deep clean an area above the door and the caustic or corrosive residue has run down the door and etched the surface. Double check with the owner that they or no one else has been in to clean any area of the front of the house.
-
Looking at those pictures it definitely looks to me that someone has used some sort of harsh cleaning chemical to deep clean an area above the door and the caustic or corrosive residue has run down the door and etched the surface. Double check with the owner that they or no one else has been in to clean any area of the front of the house.
Yup. I agree.
I was trying to be diplomatic. Water would not do that ever. The streaks on the door, they are definitely caused by something caustic. Acid doesn't affect upv in that way.
What is puzzling is that what ever affected the door, didn't affect the window frames either side of the door otherwise the op would have said. So either what ever it was was used immediately above the door or more likely on the door itself and wasn't washed or rinsed off properly or the chemical or cleaning solution used wasn't diluted enough or maybe both.
-
if she hasnt had anything cleaned above the door and the op hasnt used any cleaning chemicals im sure its heavy rain thats battered the wall above and mixed with something on the wall and dripped down.
-
Acid rain ::)roll
-
Hi Guys, im back on this one and yes Avo could be right (Acid) i talked to a guy who had been using a wfp system for years but got out of window cleaning and is now back doing carpentry work, he reckons using pure water used to affect his skin and cause damage to customers window frames,soffit and fascia,UPVC doors, and paintwork, and eventually just became afraid of using his system, he is gone from window cleaning over 4 years now so maybe the technology has changed today, at the time he went to a local company who do water testing and they told him that when water is purified it can turn it into an acidic cleaning solution which would be capable of causing damage to surfaces, he did say that after six months his skin problems cleared up, again guys i have no knowledge or experience of working with wfp systems so if there was problems in the past im sure with todays technology they would have them ironed out, at that time he said the water testing company tested the water from his system and it was reading 5 on the ph scale which would of made it very acidic, he also said that it was probably his own fault because he never got to grips with using and trying out different types of resins so decided that he had enough, so as i say i dont know how these systems work but maybe if the water is to pure it might also be more acidic, best to check this out with experts on the subject.
-
hi mate.pure water defo affects your hands badly if you dont wear gloves.it dries my hands out really bad!its mildly solvent when pure but it doesnt damage UPVC in any way.
i would say it makes old wooden window frames rot quicker though.ive lost a few of these jobs.
thankfully most customers have plastic window frames so no problems!! ;) ;D ;D
-
Hi Guys, im back on this one and yes Avo could be right (Acid) i talked to a guy who had been using a wfp system for years but got out of window cleaning and is now back doing carpentry work, he reckons using pure water used to affect his skin and cause damage to customers window frames,soffit and fascia,UPVC doors, and paintwork, and eventually just became afraid of using his system, he is gone from window cleaning over 4 years now so maybe the technology has changed today, at the time he went to a local company who do water testing and they told him that when water is purified it can turn it into an acidic cleaning solution which would be capable of causing damage to surfaces, he did say that after six months his skin problems cleared up, again guys i have no knowledge or experience of working with wfp systems so if there was problems in the past im sure with todays technology they would have them ironed out, at that time he said the water testing company tested the water from his system and it was reading 5 on the ph scale which would of made it very acidic, he also said that it was probably his own fault because he never got to grips with using and trying out different types of resins so decided that he had enough, so as i say i dont know how these systems work but maybe if the water is to pure it might also be more acidic, best to check this out with experts on the subject.
The plot thickens...........................
The thing is on paper pure water is supposed to be 7 ph, which would make it neutral and neither acidic or alkali.
However I do understand that perhaps it doesn't always come out at 7 ph.
I've never tested mine to be honest so couldn't tell you if it is 7 ph or above or below.
Besides that I still believe there is a possibility that there are quality problems with the door manufacturing process unless a harsh cleaning chemical has been used previously on the door.
Because if the pure water we use was that acidic it would be stripping paint off of wooden window frames, and in my experience that just does not happen.
-
Did you know deionized water is one of the main ingredients in shampoo?
Jesus, no wonder my hair is falling out :o
-
One of my customers has one of these upvc front doors in a coloured wood grain effect and he asked me not to clean it as he had been advised by the upvc installer not to. I don't know how rain effects it but I didn't push it too far as it's just one less door to clean.
-
It's 100% definitely not the water. I have lots of customers, many of them have the exact same door. I had done this one about 100 times over the years without issue.
-
It's 100% definitely not the water. I have lots of customers, many of them have the exact same door. I had done this one about 100 times over the years without issue.
Some above posted something about pure water being acidic. It's not - well mine isn't. I did a job today at a large house that has it's own swimming pool and the owner let me have some litmus paper and a chart. My water has a ph of 7 which is neutral.
(Rain water though is slightly acidic. It has a ph in this country of 5.0 - 5.8 but it can be lower during thunderstorms.)
I would have thought that ever residue caused that problem on the door must have washed down from the bricks or windows above. What though, I havn't a clue.
-
well the shape of the marks appears to look like wear water has been hanging around and also off what i can see there look like there are run marks wear its dripped dawn the door so it deffo looks like the water has caused it but why i don't no maybe the water has frozen on the door if it was a cold day im gonna have a look on the net and see if i can find out i let u no what i find.
-
just looked up on net and it seems that wd40 could be the course so maybe customer has used it on hinges or letter box and then u have gone and spread it more with your brush not knowing and then the drip marks have dried with wd40 in the drips removing the couler giving it a faded effect it seems like a good answer as wd40 does get rid of oils.
-
just looked up on net and it seems that wd40 could be the course so maybe customer has used it on hinges or letter box and then u have gone and spread it more with your brush not knowing and then the drip marks have dried with wd40 in the drips removing the couler giving it a faded effect it seems like a good answer as wd40 does get rid of oils.
True, WD40 is a solvent and not an oil.
But after being diluted by the water?
I cannot for one minute think that WD40 would do that to UPVC after being diluted by water.
-
customer is unlikely to admit they washed it with summat out of embarrasment as much as anything.
also possible somebody threw acid at it ,in anger
-
The manufacturer recommended I use wd40 to remove the marks.
-
wd 40 was used as rocket fuel years ago-i remember it used to be written on the spraycans.
-
I seriously doubt you caused it. If it was you it would have happened before now. A new door is £400+.
-
this looks like a composite door.
we live in a house 7 years old and some of the doors on the estate have gone this way.
some have repainted them and this seems to have stopped it going worse,its as if the paint seals the door.
most of the problem doors seem to get a lot of light and this caused them to fade and streak.
it doesnt seem to happen to white composite doors,some of my customers have them and its not a problem it tends to be more the oak/brown style doors
i cant see it being the water as been discussed it is 7ph
its going to be a break down in the outer layer of the door
bob
-
After a month of so of phone calls back and forth, the company who fitted the door have admitted to a 'faulty batch' of doors.
Apparently this is not a isolated case. The door came with a 10 year manufacturers warranty which they intend to honour.
-
Hi Guys, im back on this one and yes Avo could be right (Acid) i talked to a guy who had been using a wfp system for years but got out of window cleaning and is now back doing carpentry work, he reckons using pure water used to affect his skin and cause damage to customers window frames,soffit and fascia,UPVC doors, and paintwork, and eventually just became afraid of using his system, he is gone from window cleaning over 4 years now so maybe the technology has changed today, at the time he went to a local company who do water testing and they told him that when water is purified it can turn it into an acidic cleaning solution which would be capable of causing damage to surfaces, he did say that after six months his skin problems cleared up, again guys i have no knowledge or experience of working with wfp systems so if there was problems in the past im sure with todays technology they would have them ironed out, at that time he said the water testing company tested the water from his system and it was reading 5 on the ph scale which would of made it very acidic, he also said that it was probably his own fault because he never got to grips with using and trying out different types of resins so decided that he had enough, so as i say i dont know how these systems work but maybe if the water is to pure it might also be more acidic, best to check this out with experts on the subject.
The plot thickens...........................
The thing is on paper pure water is supposed to be 7 ph, which would make it neutral and neither acidic or alkali.
However I do understand that perhaps it doesn't always come out at 7 ph.
I've never tested mine to be honest so couldn't tell you if it is 7 ph or above or below.
Besides that I still believe there is a possibility that there are quality problems with the door manufacturing process unless a harsh cleaning chemical has been used previously on the door.
Because if the pure water we use was that acidic it would be stripping paint off of wooden window frames, and in my experience that just does not happen.
I knew that. ;) ;D