Clean It Up
UK General Cleaning Forum => General Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: evil genius on May 12, 2013, 01:52:30 pm
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My 15lpm machine is going great and doing a good job but sometime I wish I had a little more oomph. I've also been asked to price for a large commercial clean which if I get I would like a second machine to have myself and the labourer both cleaning on the job.
So I'm looking for some advice on what to get. Obviously I don't want to spend the earth but I understand you do get what you pay for. There are plenty of 15lpm machines on eBay but rarely 21lpm except for big 5k machines.
My 15lpm machine is a jetmac Loncin system and touch wood it really has been a quality machine. It really has been given a lot stick in the last 14months and has never let me down. He does a ws202 machine with a Gx390 for £1475 or a comet 21lpm Loncin machine with a decent reel for £1295.
I know both petrol but from what I read a single cylinder yanmar or equivalent wont power a ws202 to the full 21liters.
Could a better or simlar 21liters machine be built for less money? I know a ws202 with gearbox is around £550.
If I could spend less than 1k then I would be happy. I will make my final decision based i weather I bag this large job or not, unless someone comes up with a well priced solution to getting a 21litermachine.
Thanks all.
Ian
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Evil
Here's something to throw the cat amongst the pigeons.
Buy another 15 LPM machine and join the two together when you want that bit more. I have two joiners, one for each van, Lee copied me ;D, with a cheaper version.
Two machines with the option of 30LPM if you need it.
Nothing on Ebay for your money
Rob ;D
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Hmmmmm this sounds interesting rob!!
Could you post or email details on the idea please rob?
Thanks
Ian, info@mbuildwarwickshire.co.uk
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I haven't been up to the unit this week gone, said I would about the pumps but with various things going on I never got round to it. I will see if I have a reverse splitter at the bottom of the drive, in one of the vans and grab a picture, if not it will be tomorrow.
Basically it is two quick connect females, with two non returns on either side, this basically goes down into a single outlet with whatever quick connect you need.
Your bringing the two machines flow into one outlet, giving 2 x 15LPM = 30LPM, the non returns stop one machine from firing flow & pressure into the other machine, if there is a problem or one machine stops.
Rob ;D
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(http://i41.tinypic.com/el45mc.jpg)
Rob ;D
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The guy that supplied my 21 L (Damien at Q Washers,Skipton and highly recommended) fitted it with 2 water inlets,one either side of the pump head and said with just the one the pump can`t supply 21L. Just thought i`d mention it as most i see on offer have only one feed.
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Nameless
21 LPM & above really ought to have two inlets, into the pump, you were told correctly.
Rob ;D
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Thanks dry much for that rob. That's actually a well thought idea :).
So with to joiner and another 15lpm machine I could Achieve 30lpm, now that shouldnt but it does smile :)
15 litre diesel machine like the hilta one come up fairly regularly and can be had for around £600/700.
This is now definitely something else to consider.
I would much prefer to have a 15lpm and a 21lpm but this may prove difficult for the budget.
Rob,
Say I was going to go with the Loncin/comet/jetmac 21lpm system for £1295, could something be built with a WS202 for less than the £1295?
Thanks.
Ian
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Rob,
Excuse the ignorance, but with the non return valves, do both machines unload ok when you release the trigger?
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I would say yes but am not the one to answer this as I have never self built, Lee, Chris, Lee Kenny are better placed to answer.
If I had a limited budget I would look at something like a drain jetter, that needed work and there is at least one on Ebay at the moment.
Matt
Yes the non return valves are forced backwards, closing the outlet and it works as normal.
Rob ;D
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Ian,
Am i right in thinking the GX390 is a 13hp machine?
If so, the 13hp will run a 21lpm pump. Well from what lee kenny has said in another post it will, i dont have experience with the hondas.
You could effectively buy a 21lpm pump (WS202) and gearbox, and put it on your gx390. Then get a smaller 11hp engine..say a yanmar or similar and put the 15lpm pump on that..
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Ian,
Am i right in thinking the GX390 is a 13hp machine?
If so, the 13hp will run a 21lpm pump. Well from what lee kenny has said in another post it will, i dont have experience with the hondas.
You could effectively buy a 21lpm pump (WS202) and gearbox, and put it on your gx390. Then get a smaller 11hp engine..say a yanmar or similar and put the 15lpm pump on that..
Yes thats right matt, and that could be the answer to your problems evil, just put a 21 litre pump on the machine you already have?
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Ian,
Am i right in thinking the GX390 is a 13hp machine?
If so, the 13hp will run a 21lpm pump. Well from what lee kenny has said in another post it will, i dont have experience with the hondas.
You could effectively buy a 21lpm pump (WS202) and gearbox, and put it on your gx390. Then get a smaller 11hp engine..say a yanmar or similar and put the 15lpm pump on that..
Yes thats right matt, and that could be the answer to your problems evil, just put a 21 litre pump on the machine you already have?
Also been using Lee's machine today, 30lpm, it's superb for rinsing, flat surface cleaning, etc, also will run @ 15 lpm with the right jet in nicely for when water supply is a problem and on domestci driveways usring a turbo etc, defo made my mind up after using that now and going to upgrade
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That's seems the best idea for budget.
Kenny and Matt,
New ws202 and gearbox £550. How much am I looking at for a decent second hand Diesel engine? There are a couple yamar L100's on eBay for £550, which seems a lot. Can they be had cheaper than that as we are would be looking at £1100 for engine and pump. Then need unloader and fitting etc. we'll then be at £1200+ and still Needing something to mount it on. I've been offered a nearly new gx390/ws202 machine for much less that this, although petrol.
Thanks
Ian
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Lee, what 30lpm pump are you going to buy? How much?
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That's seems the best idea for budget.
Kenny and Matt,
New ws202 and gearbox £550. How much am I looking at for a decent second hand Diesel engine? There are a couple yamar L100's on eBay for £550, which seems a lot. Can they be had cheaper than that as we are would be looking at £1100 for engine and pump. Then need unloader and fitting etc. we'll then be at £1200+ and still Needing something to mount it on. I've been offered a nearly new gx390/ws202 machine for much less that this, although petrol.
Thanks
Ian
Ian,
Depends on how long your running it? All day everyday? The fuel saving from a diesel will be significant. You can pick up a yanmar diesel with a 15lpm for 600ish on a trolley. That way you have a spare pump and the machine is already on a trolley.
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Rob I copied Nigel from the states 3 years ago. Watch his video here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02PkryqmatU
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Matt,
The current washer is getting used 3 times a week at 7 hours a go. So 20 odd hours a week. I would say it uses about £15/£20 a day, so say £50 a week.
What does it cost to run a diesel for a day?
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Blastaway,
I know from what I read you know a lot about and do a fair bit of self build.
Have you got any input or ideas for getting the 21lpm wanted for sub 1k?
Thanks
Ian
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Sometimes even the self builders need expert help ;)
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I've had a 202 pump on a 10hp Yanmar but you won't get the full 200 bar. 160-170 bar at 21lpm you'll get.
I've got a 17hp diesel in the van now with a 202 pump on, on belt drive. More than enough power to run it smoothly.
I gave £350 for the engine but had a new flywheel and shaft put on it plus fabrication etc.
Unless you find an engine cheap like I did, you'll struggle for £1k or less.
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Sometimes even the self builders need expert help ;)
:)
True!
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Matt,
The current washer is getting used 3 times a week at 7 hours a go. So 20 odd hours a week. I would say it uses about £15/£20 a day, so say £50 a week.
What does it cost to run a diesel for a day?
On a 10hp, about £8 (8 litres) of red diesel in a 9-5 shift.
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When I changed from petrol to diesel - 15 to 21 ltrs, the fuel savings paid for the machine in the first year. On long days I was using at least one and a half jerry cans of petrol in the 13hp Honda and still now the 14hp lombardini only uses 10 ltrs of cherry (only 90p/ltr inc vat bought from the local co-op)
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Carl, was you not tempted to go to larger than 21 when you were buying your machine?
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No, I spend enough time waiting to fill my jetter up, I have built a trailer with 650 ltr tank on and 21 is enough for domestics where I only use a 55 nozzle to save water. I have the 54 ltr jetter in the van that I have a gun for which I use on the large wash down jobs. I also have the 15 ltr petrol machine set up on the wheely bin so I can have 2 blokes working. I've got most bases covered
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Is your trailer finnished? you got any pics mate?
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The trailer is built with the tank, washer, boiler and reels all mounted. I want to have the boiler plumbed out of circuit on cold but controlled with just the one valve and I'm waiting on parts to arrive for this. Its plumbed just for cold now. I've got the build photos and just need to tidy things up but I'll take some photos as it is and try to post them. I have even bought some led lights for it ;D Difficult doing these things as its been very busy recently
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The trailer is built with the tank, washer, boiler and reels all mounted. I want to have the boiler plumbed out of circuit on cold but controlled with just the one valve and I'm waiting on parts to arrive for this. Its plumbed just for cold now. I've got the build photos and just need to tidy things up but I'll take some photos as it is and try to post them. I have even bought some led lights for it ;D Difficult doing these things as its been very busy recently
Led lights... pimp my pressure washer ;D
Have you seeen this on ebay? going to look at it tommorrow... could maybe make something out of it.. only downside is that it's a petrol engine, so still need an engine.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOBILE-DRAIN-JETTER-/261215290109?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item3cd1a502fd
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Thats a Nixon - the exact same machine I had and is now stripped off for the trailer. That will have the old push rod engine if its original.
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Just been to look at it, kohler petrol engine, v twin, looks like a hawk pump on it, no badge
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im seriously looking at replacing the pump on my tech-clean pt250 (15lpm) with a ws202 with gearbox,
i already have a 19.2 lpm machine (thanks kenny83) and i like the extra power so think i will up-grade to 21 lpm.
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Just been to look at it, kohler petrol engine, v twin, looks like a hawk pump on it, no badge
Does the pump have an arrow thing on the back ? I think you will find its a speck 8 gallon @ 3k psi
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would be interested in seeing a few pics of the trailer when its all done too.
ian
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Just been to look at it, kohler petrol engine, v twin, looks like a hawk pump on it, no badge
Does the pump have an arrow thing on the back ? I think you will find its a speck 8 gallon @ 3k psi
Don't remember seeing one mate, it was technically spares or repair, had a great electric hose reel on it, although it didn't work :(
Offered him 350 and came away....
Going looking at a zeta tommorrow, 200 bar at 30lpm, lombardini diesel engine, a bit moree than i had budgeted but I will save that in labour and running around trying to build one.... looking forward to buying it ;D
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Good news, I have been given the thumbs up on the 2 man job I was pricing when I first posted so ill be making a purchase in the next2 weeks
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Well in that case you'll be interested in a Genuine honda gx390 with interpump 202? Electric start, serviced, mint condition... 950 ono, this is the electric start one that retails for around 1750, please do not confuse it with the lesser priced recoil start around 1400
;D
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That does sound tempting!!
Did you buy the zeta mentioned above and what sort of money did you pay if u don't mind saying?
Thanks
Ian
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I don't mind you asking mate, but i do mind telling you ;D
Haha, only messing, I give 1450 for it pal, but has a problem at the minute that i'm trying to solve. everytime I pull the trigger the engine bogs and stalls. tried new unloaders, taking the 40 meter hose off, a few things, just still does it, so now i'm looking at the engine side of things... starting with oil and filters then if it's none of them I'm going to take it to a plant engineer.
It's a beast, and it's about the same size foot print of my brendon so very compact for what it is. Give me a call if you like in regards to the honda, i'm sure I could sort you a CIU member discount ;D
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That sounds like the main jet is blocked or some has fiddled with the governor set up
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Thats what I was looking at, the throttle system has been defo tampered with as originally was an idle cut out set up when you let go of trigger, tried different nozzles in, including a size 15 and still bogs, if it was partially blocked would the unloader not compensate and dump back to tank? i'm thinking you may be right with the govener idea, I have even checked to see if any throttle / stop cables are catching any where when the trigger is pulled... nothing, seems fine, had a play with the throttle cable when under load, still no joy, throttle is open to the max, I'm not familiar at all with these engines, have you ever worked on one carl? would be good to have a chat if your free any time?
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it runs fine with the lance off and unloads fine, just bogs when under pressure, unwound the unloader out all the way and got it to about 110 bar before it starts to bog
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Kenny - when I said main jet I'm talking about the oriface that feeds the fuel into the airflow in the carb. Get a 10mm spanner and undo the bolt in the middle of the float bowl having turned the fuel off, you can then either remove the jet or blow it out with compressed air. Feel free to ring
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It is a diesel were talking about? are you talking about in the lift pump? or do you think I mean the honda engine I mentioned earlier? :-\ whens best to ring mate?
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Think you have your wires crossed carl, the machine i'm having problems with is a acme motori twin cylinder diesel engine, running an interpump 2030
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Carl, my 17 hp 602 is a different story.
Struggling to start in the morning. Starts with a bit of easy start. Then throughout the day it will start after a few seconds.
If I get time tomorrow I'll take it to Hi Tech Diesels to test the injector. Any heads up? Also maybe linked to the fitting that keeps splitting between the unloader and pump.
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I thought it was just me with machine problems. I feel so much better now ;D
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Lee, my lombi will not start when cold without the glow plugs - check them first.
Kenny - yes I'm confused ???
I also get machine problems - I'm mother today so I'm working between the school runs
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it runs fine with the lance off and unloads fine, just bogs when under pressure, unwound the unloader out all the way and got it to about 110 bar before it starts to bog
Sounds like the Governor in the pumps is knackered.
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Carl, my 17 hp 602 is a different story.
Struggling to start in the morning. Starts with a bit of easy start. Then throughout the day it will start after a few seconds.
If I get time tomorrow I'll take it to Hi Tech Diesels to test the injector. Any heads up? Also maybe linked to the fitting that keeps splitting between the unloader and pump.
Take out the heater plug and flash test it on a battery and jump leads. Just make sure it is 12v and not something stupid like 9.2 volts! If that works compression test it.
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Carl, my 17 hp 602 is a different story.
Struggling to start in the morning. Starts with a bit of easy start. Then throughout the day it will start after a few seconds.
If I get time tomorrow I'll take it to Hi Tech Diesels to test the injector. Any heads up? Also maybe linked to the fitting that keeps splitting between the unloader and pump.
Take out the heater plug and flash test it on a battery and jump leads. Just make sure it is 12v and not something stupid like 9.2 volts! If that works compression test it.
This engine is new to me so where's the glow plug(s)?
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They will be on the cylinder head but I can't say they are obvious on my 702 - they seem to start hiding the bits and bobs withing the casings to stop the halfwits phwucking with them. They look like small spark plugs with an electrical wire bolted to it. Do you have and electrical meter ? I have looked on google images but can't find the correct photo. I bought a manual on disc on ebay for my 702 for a couple of quid
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If its a lombardini engine you can get a engine breakdown diagram and a full workshop manual for free from the lombardini site. its a bit hard to navigate but youll find it.