Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: SPE on May 07, 2013, 06:25:45 pm
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3 weeks ago my 52 plate expert was collected by insurers for accident repair after door and wing was reversed into. Was looking forward to its return today only to be called and told the driver was returning to garage, loss of power unsafe to drive.
After garage diagnostics they called to say the turbo and intercooler was at fault. :(
Looks like they are already putting it down to wear and tear and pure coincidence.
The garage is a good hours drive from me, not my choice but not knowing any better I went with insurers advice and left it in their hands to collect and provide courtesy vehicle, all I have to go on is what the garage have told me over the phone.
Can anyone advise me, do I have any rights with regards to this ? Are they legally obliged to return the vehicle to me in a roadworthy condition or am I expected to pay for this unforseen mechanical fault ?
I have already contacted my insurers to ask them to mediate with the garage for me, they are suggesting that if the garage refuses responsibility or accident damage as the cause then they can get a third party to assess it.
What has already been a hard 3 weeks has just got a lot worse >:(
Simon
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It's difficult to prove if it was their fault or just bad timing.
Last year the fan belt failed on my van the day before it was due to be picked up for an insurance job body work repair.
So obviously it was just one of those things, and if it had broke the next day when it was being taken to the garage it would of been wrong of me to assume it was their fault.
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I rarely believe in coincidence and find it hard to believe that this is. Had it been driven since the accident and if so was it ok ?
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I rarely believe in coincidence and find it hard to believe that this is. Had it been driven since the accident and if so was it ok ?
I drove it for a day after the accident with no problems, it was collected and driven away the following day with no problems reported, that was 3 weeks ago.
The driver returning it to me was halfway along the journey before he rang and said the van was not safe to drive. I am assuming it was when he left, and I have no idea how he got back to the garage if it was unsafe to drive and he was halfway through the journey to me.
I could just be unlucky
I know nothing of how a turbo works or what goes wrong with them, so excuse the stupid question but could the manner in which it was being driven cause something like that to fail ? (clutching at straws really )
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I tend not to believe in coincidences either especially when the person or business concerned is going to make money out of that coincidence.
With regards what to do, I'm sorry but I havn't a clue.
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I tend not to believe in coincidences either especially when the person or business concerned is going to make money out of that coincidence.
With regards what to do, I'm sorry but I havn't a clue.
Hi Ross, how ya doing
yep thats whats bugging me, I got an old triumph spitfire, took it for an mot a couple of years ago which it failed, garage also advised that the gearbox was on the way out, thats weird I thought, never had a problem. Was hard getting into gear drove about a mile to my mums, day later could'nt even get into first.
a bit of research on the net and a haynes and located the problem - clutch fluid resevoir empty and air pumped in the system, after bleeding and refilling its been fine, COINCIDENCE ?
back on the topic, hav'nt a clue either !
in hindsight I should have pushed for it to be written off, have just found out the repair bill was just over 2k, that on a 52 plate with nearing 120,000 on the clock.
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I would get it assessed by a third party. The AA used to do this sort of thing. They would give an impartial report. Their experience is generally accepted above almost everything else.
Unfortunately turbos can fail in a instant, so there is every possibility that you were unfortunate.
The doomsters will tell you that it will cost millions for a new engine, fuel pump, oil pump, injectors etc.
In our experience, if the turbo has gone/blown then it would be a good idea to drop the sump and check for any bits. Also clean/replace the oil pickup screen and possibly include the oil pump as well. The oil filter should have prevented any bits going any further into the lubrication line so this needs to be replaced.
The reason for all this is that the turbo has its own lubrication drain directly into the sump from the turbo.
I can see them needing to remove the intercooler to get any debris out, but can't see why they would want to replace it.
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I tend not to believe in coincidences either especially when the person or business concerned is going to make money out of that coincidence.
With regards what to do, I'm sorry but I havn't a clue.
Hi Ross, how ya doing
yep thats whats bugging me, I got an old triumph spitfire, took it for an mot a couple of years ago which it failed, garage also advised that the gearbox was on the way out, thats weird I thought, never had a problem. Was hard getting into gear drove about a mile to my mums, day later could'nt even get into first.
a bit of research on the net and a haynes and located the problem - clutch fluid resevoir empty and air pumped in the system, after bleeding and refilling its been fine, COINCIDENCE ?
back on the topic, hav'nt a clue either !
in hindsight I should have pushed for it to be written off, have just found out the repair bill was just over 2k, that on a 52 plate with nearing 120,000 on the clock.
very surprising it got repaired. with the best will in the world its an old clunker (i also own a 02 plate old clunker van,theyre on their last legs by 10 yrs old )
Chances are the driver decided to cane it and summat blew .
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I tend not to believe in coincidences either especially when the person or business concerned is going to make money out of that coincidence.
With regards what to do, I'm sorry but I havn't a clue.
Hi Ross, how ya doing
yep thats whats bugging me, I got an old triumph spitfire, took it for an mot a couple of years ago which it failed, garage also advised that the gearbox was on the way out, thats weird I thought, never had a problem. Was hard getting into gear drove about a mile to my mums, day later could'nt even get into first.
a bit of research on the net and a haynes and located the problem - clutch fluid resevoir empty and air pumped in the system, after bleeding and refilling its been fine, COINCIDENCE ?
back on the topic, hav'nt a clue either !
in hindsight I should have pushed for it to be written off, have just found out the repair bill was just over 2k, that on a 52 plate with nearing 120,000 on the clock.
very surprising it got repaired. with the best will in the world its an old clunker (i also own a 02 plate old clunker van,theyre on their last legs by 10 yrs old )
Chances are the driver decided to cane it and summat blew .
Turbo RPM is controlled by the ECU. It is a low blow turbo so it revs very fast to begin with ( to reduce turbo lag.)
If the driver caned it, the chances are that it would be a cambelt snap and valve lever damage on those engines. Conrods can also break at high revs.
I wouldn't suspect the driver in this instance TBH. But its always good to get a report from someone who can report on what they see.
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[/quote]very surprising it got repaired. with the best will in the world its an old clunker (i also own a 02 plate old clunker van,theyre on their last legs by 10 yrs old )
Chances are the driver decided to cane it and summat blew .
[/quote]
I am a bit dubious of the driver after his phone call
His words
"I wont be returning your vehicle this afternoon"
why's that ?
"Its too dangerous, its got no power, theres a full tank of water in the back"
no there is'nt its completely empty
"well I'm stuck in traffic, my sat nav says I'm doing 25, I've got big lorries flying past me blowing me all over the road, it aint roadworthy mate"
well it was fine before
"well it is'nt now"
I did'nt think much of the customer service or the way he talked to me tbh
This is a national garage that insurers use for accident repair.
Having never claimed on anyone elses insurance before I was unaware of how they decide on a write off, but since finding out the repair cost , add to that my lost earnings due to the fact they first sent a courtesy car instead of a van plus 3 weeks van rental I too am suprised they approved the repair. But then I suppose it was never for me to decide if it should be written off or not ? but in hindsight I would probably have been in a better financial position now.
Simon
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summats fishy, that story about the full tank o water indicates a liar on the phone.
id be tempted to drive it out of there ,likely theyv not took the van apart yet
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very weird
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I canot see this going in my favour to be honest, 3 weeks ago I first posted of the accident damage and being mugged off with a courtesy car and told 7-10 days for repair, 21 days later and it goes from bad to worse. Really wish I had just taken it to a local body shop got a quote and given that to third party insurers, but I was assured a hassle free service with no exspense to myself. well I'll know more in the morning I guess :-\
Simon
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keep us posted !
i used to be in the motor trade as a spannerman and its rife with scam artists. in fact thats part of the reason i left it and took up in being a windie- which is a very honest trade and i can sleep at night
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very surprising it got repaired. with the best will in the world its an old clunker (i also own a 02 plate old clunker van,theyre on their last legs by 10 yrs old )
Chances are the driver decided to cane it and summat blew .
[/quote]
I am a bit dubious of the driver after his phone call
His words
"I wont be returning your vehicle this afternoon"
why's that ?
"Its too dangerous, its got no power, theres a full tank of water in the back"
no there is'nt its completely empty
"well I'm stuck in traffic, my sat nav says I'm doing 25, I've got big lorries flying past me blowing me all over the road, it aint roadworthy mate"
well it was fine before
"well it is'nt now"
I did'nt think much of the customer service or the way he talked to me tbh
This is a national garage that insurers use for accident repair.
Having never claimed on anyone elses insurance before I was unaware of how they decide on a write off, but since finding out the repair cost , add to that my lost earnings due to the fact they first sent a courtesy car instead of a van plus 3 weeks van rental I too am suprised they approved the repair. But then I suppose it was never for me to decide if it should be written off or not ? but in hindsight I would probably have been in a better financial position now.
Simon
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I must admit that's a strange conversation.
We've experienced something like this and it ended up to be the driver didn't want to deliver the vehicle at that time of the evening due to traffic and having to make his own way home after. Sometimes they just have something better to do in the evening than worry about whether the customer vehicle is delivered as promised.
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Just an update to my van situation
I requested that the insurers get a third party to assess any damage regards turbo.
They did and as expected it is not linked to work carried out by garage or accident.
My van is being returned tomorrow on a truck.
Spruce, I hope you read this at some point as I would appreciate your helpful input.
My mechanical knowledge is very limited, is the intercooler to be found under the passenger side on a peugeot expert ? if so its meant to have a plastic scoop on it ? mine was damaged a couple of years ago by speed bumps and was hanging off so I removed it.
Until I get my van back all I know is it shows a turbo and intercooler fault, drives but is in limp mode. I am awaiting a call back from a mobile mechanic but do you think the absence over time of this bit of plastic could be linked to the problems? also I know the catalytic converter rattles a bit ???
I guess I'm just hoping its not a big exspensive problem and that the symptoms are caused by something simpler like air blockages and dirt (I wish)
Many thanks
Simon
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doubtt it, turbos just go mate, sometimes they whistle a bit first its pretty common though.
with the scoop normally they get pulled off like you have at some point its pretty rare that they stay on for long, doubtfull that it would have caused any damage to ya
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doubtt it, turbos just go mate, sometimes they whistle a bit first its pretty common though.
with the scoop normally they get pulled off like you have at some point its pretty rare that they stay on for long, doubtfull that it would have caused any damage to ya
ok thanks anyway michael, worth an ask as I am clueless when it comes to modern vehicles !
I see a big bill coming my way soon ! :'( :'(
Simon
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take off the big air pipe on side of the turbo and try wiggling the spindle in the centre of the turbo. if its duff it will either be seized solid and cannot be turned or if it moves about sideaways big time the turbo bearings and vanes are shot . if it spins nicely it means its ok and then it could be just the wastegate is jammed open or shut .
its rare for a turbo to blow on one of those engines as they dont do much work
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take off the big air pipe on side of the turbo and try wiggling the spindle in the centre of the turbo. if its duff it will either be seized solid and cannot be turned or if it moves about sideaways big time the turbo bearings are shot . if it spins nicely it means its ok and then it could be just the wastegate is jammed open or shut .
thankyou Robert, I shall definately give that a try when I get the van back tomorrow afternoon, without the van here I cannot even pop outside and lift the bonnet and to be honest I do not even know where in the engine the turbo is ? ::)roll
looking for someone to call, is a mobile mechanic a good idea as oppose to a garage ?
Simon
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The intercooler is usually situated in front of the radiator. The inter cooler is connected between the turbo and the air intake into the engine. It is designed to cool the 'compressed' air from the turbo charger. So follow the air pipe from the turbo to the front of the van behind the grill.
There is a diesel inter cooler under the van with fins on it, but they will have small fuel pipes coupled to it. This is coupled to the diesel return pipe to the tank and is to cool the hot diesel before it gets back to the tank.
You need a mechanic that has access to the citroen fault computer codes. The ECU can clear some faults when the fault has been identified and rectified, but some have to be cleared on the computer. Some will try the old trick of disconecting the battery terminal for 60 secs with the ignition on, but you might have to get the codes cleared at a Citroen Garage.
If you haven't got the engine management code (key/password) then Citroen will get it from France but you will be charged for that service as well.
Robertphil has posted a good suggestion. Bearing failure due to poor lubrication is the most common turbo fault, but as Robertphil has said, turbo failures on the 2.0 are very uncommon.
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when you last drove it did you notice the turbo working? some engines you never can feel it or hear it ,others you hear the turbo whistle and feel it boosting you along
follow up where the exhaust joins the engine the turbo is jus before the engine.its awkward to get to unfortunately
if i was you id find who is your local peugeot citroen breaker and he would tell who is a good fixer . the breaker could also supply your bits cheaply
most towns have at least 1 pug breaker specialist with a yardfull of bits.
back when i was a spannerman i changed several of those engines that had gone bang (usually well over 150k mileage or overheated and cooked ,but i never heard of a turbo blowing on that model
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Spruce and Robert, thank you so much for your help and input.
Yes was driving fine before with no noises or loss of power.
I have tried calling a couple of mobile mechanics and left messages but not got back to me as yet.
To be honest I've been stressing out about this since last Tuesday when the obnoxious scrote who was delivering my vehicle back called me , fat lot of use that garage have been as so my insurers at keeping me updated !
Atleast I feel a little more knowledgable now as to questions to ask and things to look for, will just have to wait for vans return now.
If and when this gets sorted will let you know !
Thanks again guys
Simon
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Just an update
Got my van back last Wednesday on recovery truck, was blowing black smoke when revved but driving ok enough to park it, test drove it Thursday , pulled ok up to 70 and no loss of power, so worked Friday and no problems.
It does have a rattling catalytic converter which I had planned to replace any way so have one on order and a mate to fit it.
Could be really annoyed with this garage but more of a relief to have my van back and no big bills.
A lesson has been learnt, I won't leave things in the hands of my insurers and their prefferred repair center if I find myself in this situation again.
Simon
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I have one of these engines fitted in my expert and last year started chucking out black smoke when on high revz. I took it to my local garage and I was fearing the worst and it turned out to be a split turbo hose from intercooler which I replaced and no more smoke and it runs a lot better now. Lots more power.
Worth checking.
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Do these engines not have a EGR valve?
It's a common fault on the transits...
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I have one of these engines fitted in my expert and last year started chucking out black smoke when on high revz. I took it to my local garage and I was fearing the worst and it turned out to be a split turbo hose from intercooler which I replaced and no more smoke and it runs a lot better now. Lots more power.
Worth checking.
Thanks, I was presuming it was cat related, but will get him to check hoses etc when fitting it
Simon