Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: AuRavelling79 on May 01, 2013, 08:03:23 pm
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This isn't a get at trad cleaners; it's a plea for someone to explain why you would continue to clean trad.
We were cleaning in an area of Bristol which is made up of nice 30's semis and detached houses and in this particular road, within 400 yards I have 15 custies adding up to £296. I do this in 5 van moves and clean between 2 and 4 custies per van move.
Anyway we finish lunch and pull up where I do 4 houses in one hit. As we pull up we notice two guys working out of a Ford Focus trad and they have started on a large semi with extension with two circular bays.
We (2 of us) cleaned at a steady pace the following:-
One 30's semi.
One 60's detached with conny.
One 30's 5 bed detached
One 30's 4 bed semi with conny.
We didn't rush, we cleaned the frames and cills, collected, put slips through and even had time to drink proffered tea and a piece of shortbread each.
As we moved off the two trad boys finished their big 30's semi which had about the same windows as our 5 bed detached and then they drove off.
In the same time we have done three or four times as much work.
I just can't fathom the mentality. Please don't look at this as smugness or haughtiness; they were working off that shiny pressed concrete at the front and I just felt sorry for them ... putting themselves in danger for what? Keeping the craft alive?
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Some just dont have the money, the know how, the enthusiasm, the determination.
I've offered to build a system for a mate of mine who is still trad. He's not intrested, and just happy plodding on up and down a ladder.
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i understand what you are saying i was out doing some town houses on monday and it was windy out comes these lads with ladders and do some town houses but they do have wfp it just the customers want it done trad way , dont get me wrong i do some trad way but i draw a line at 3 storey not worth putting life at risk .
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Beer money?
To top up their benefits money?
Sometimes poor people feel smug that 'money isn't everything'
Loads of answers in their heads-in reality, whatever the reason it can't make sense but 'in their heads' it might.
Don't worry about it-just enjoy your $.
I stopped feeling sorry for people a long time ago.
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the way i look at it is that you also have the running costs, to set up trad then you can do this for £200 max, to set up wfp its min of 1k and thats before you look at going van mount, its then the ongoing costs, they may just be trad until a proper job comes along haha, in all honesty though this may be part of it, you go trad and then get a steady job in a factory, what has it cost you? £200 and youve probably made that back, whereas if you set up wfp you then have to justify the original outlay
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Some window cleaners are as thick as s..t, you will never convince them in a million years.
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The biggest window cleaner where I live is trad only and has several rounds and I promise you he earns more than everybody whose commented on this thread put together. To say trad cleaners are thick is only said by those who are thick
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I wonder how many of you smug wfp window cleaners would make a living if
you had any competition.
Most of you wouldn't know a clean window if it hit you on the head.
A professional trad cleaner can guarantee quality.
Doesn't matter how good you are at wfp cleaning, you cant.
Sick of new wfp cleaners putting down guys who have forgot more about
cleaning windows than they will ever know.
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I'd like to take this oppertunity to say I was trad for 9 years before turning WFP ;D
(only wfp tops mind, still trad bottoms)
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Not to start a trad vs WFP row. Again.
But what is there to know (or forget?!) about window cleaning.
Trad-soap up the glass and squeegee it off.
WFP-scrub the glass with pure water, rinse.
Job done.
Neither is difficult.
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Yup, I am happy to plod on the old school way.
Whatever business/job you are in, it's all just a means to an end, and I don't see why I should have to make more money to pay for the extra costs necessary to run a wfp system, when I can make enough by tradding.
It's of course no surprise to read the 'put downs' but then again, it's not fashionable to respect the opinions or understand the circumstances of those with whom we disagree, and it helps to disguise personal insecurities at the same time.
I may just be convinced if you believe it is safe, or even possible to fit a 500 litre tank into my Fiesta van along with all the associated paraphernalia! ;D
John
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The thing is with this forum is that there are the obvious few who work hard,earn decent money and don't talk about it. Then there's the lot who sound off but either live with their mum or in a dump somewhere who have a wife who works full time to subsidise the money they think they earn and moan at the first sign of rain. It doesn't matter if your trad or wfp or what you earn,leave that to those with big egos and be happy with you have. I don't see many on here in a 4 bed detached with a wife that doesn't work and a decent car.
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Trad for 15 years and wfp for 7 years.
To answer the question I think it's because some just don't like change.
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Trad for 15 years and wfp for 7 years.
To answer the question I think it's because some just don't like change.
Nail on head
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Yup, I am happy to plod on the old school way.
Whatever business/job you are in, it's all just a means to an end, and I don't see why I should have to make more money to pay for the extra costs necessary to run a wfp system, when I can make enough by tradding.
It's of course no surprise to read the 'put downs' but then again, it's not fashionable to respect the opinions or understand the circumstances of those with whom we disagree, and it helps to disguise personal insecurities at the same time.
I may just be convinced if you believe it is safe, or even possible to fit a 500 litre tank into my Fiesta van along with all the associated paraphernalia! ;D
John
Question is do you think working at heights is safe.
A friend of mine went to visit a chap in one of the Sheffield hospitals who was a trad cleaner. He is now paralyzed from the neck down and 'lives ' at the hospital on breathing equipment.
I changed as I figured life is precious.
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Trad for 15 years and wfp for 7 years.
To answer the question I think it's because some just don't like change.
Nail on head
if people are entrepreneurial the only option is really WFP due to so many benefits (not least speed, safety, earning potential)
if people have set themselves up and are earning all the money they need, and have a job they are happy doing why would they change over?
they might have started motivated to grow a business, but got into a comfort zone and stay there.
there's also nothing wrong with being in your comfort zone, so long as you are content with where you are
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When I started in 1979 Trad was the only option I worked on the tools for many years but compaired to WFP it's a no brainer.
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I wonder how many of you smug wfp window cleaners would make a living if
you had any competition.
Most of you wouldn't know a clean window if it hit you on the head.
A professional trad cleaner can guarantee quality.
Doesn't matter how good you are at wfp cleaning, you cant.
Sick of new wfp cleaners putting down guys who have forgot more about
cleaning windows than they will ever know.
Not getting involved in this argument BUT, I guarantee all our wfp work. Perfect results every time. NEVER had a call back yet. 3 years wfp.
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Gold, There's something wrong here I would expect the house you describe to take around 20 mins for 2 trad cleaners.
How long did it take you to do your 4 plus tea, I'm guessing longer than that?
Wfp is quicker but not by that much, these 2 must have been very slow ;D
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Trad for 15 years and wfp for 7 years.
To answer the question I think it's because some just don't like change.
Nail on head
if people are entrepreneurial the only option is really WFP due to so many benefits (not least speed, safety, earning potential)
if people have set themselves up and are earning all the money they need, and have a job they are happy doing why would they change over?
they might have started motivated to grow a business, but got into a comfort zone and stay there.
there's also nothing wrong with being in your comfort zone, so long as you are content with where you are
surely if your entrepreneurial then you'd be trying to invent something new or change window cleaning totally from what it is now, being an entrepreneur is not someone who just runs a business the same as everyone else? or maybe im wrong and im actually now classed as an entrepreneur wahay, move over Dicky Branson
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The thing is with this forum is that there are the obvious few who work hard,earn decent money and don't talk about it. Then there's the lot who sound off but either live with their mum or in a dump somewhere who have a wife who works full time to subsidise the money they think they earn and moan at the first sign of rain. It doesn't matter if your trad or wfp or what you earn,leave that to those with big egos and be happy with you have. I don't see many on here in a 4 bed detached with a wife that doesn't work and a decent car.
I like this post.
The emptiest vessels make the loudest noise.
The only people who know what I earn is me and HMRC. Not even the wife knows.
A few people have asked me over the last few years for advice in setting up WC. I always say first & foremost-never never never tell anyone what you earn!
Let people think what they want to think.
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I think it took me time to be convinced that leaving the windows wet would be ok, got a little discouraged when some windows dried with the odd run (that was due to previous window cleaner using washing up liquid), but that goes eventually. you get used to which house you have problems with and give extra care.
I think that the only advantage of trad is on big shop windows.
But i do think wfp is better.
1) you can get to any window (above conservatory)
2) you give a complete clean (frames)
3) windows stay clean longer ( my customers like that and still clean 4w)
4) Looks more professional
5) no risks
6) quicker
7) customer privacy
8) Hands not split from soapy water (LOL)
Steve.
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Trad for 15 years and wfp for 7 years.
To answer the question I think it's because some just don't like change.
Nail on head
if people are entrepreneurial the only option is really WFP due to so many benefits (not least speed, safety, earning potential)
if people have set themselves up and are earning all the money they need, and have a job they are happy doing why would they change over?
they might have started motivated to grow a business, but got into a comfort zone and stay there.
there's also nothing wrong with being in your comfort zone, so long as you are content with where you are
surely if your entrepreneurial then you'd be trying to invent something new or change window cleaning totally from what it is now, being an entrepreneur is not someone who just runs a business the same as everyone else? or maybe im wrong and im actually now classed as an entrepreneur wahay, move over Dicky Branson
the term entrepreneur is used in relation to someone who sets themselves up in enterprise.
the term is used in the media usually referring to some big new idea businesses, as i guess they make interesting stories.
richard branson was in the music retail industry, and has hopped around different industries since then.
i think it just means someone who sets up their own business, so yes you are an entrepreneur!
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ill go buy an island now then haha. Dicky actually started in the magazine business, got to say he's one of my idols, fantastic man
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'Cos they don't like shortbread.
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.....I was trad only for 20 yrs and for the last 6 yrs I've been 50-50 trad and waterfed,,(trolley dolly- as some call us ). But you know what....I'm picking up more work now because far too many NEW window cleaners think..oh I'll buy a shiny new van and one of them water thingys and make a fortune-- but the work I'm getting is mainly because some ain't got a bloody clue, experience in both"priceless".........THICK??
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I know !
We were off on Thursday and Friday last week cause we're wfp we've nailed the work in the good weather. Drove past a couple of chaps we know ( and get on with ) a couple of times both days, theyre trad and theyre still working ! Point is were doing 30-40 jobs a day and theyre doing 20-25. We know this cause we did trad for 7 years. Weve spoken to them about going wfp and its all negative responses...hey ho !
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Like I said earlier some people can not be helped
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Some window cleaners are as thick as s..t, you will never convince them in a million years.
Some people are thick as sh!t and some people are thick as sh!t and dont have any motivation either.
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I wonder how many of you smug wfp window cleaners would make a living if
you had any competition.
Most of you wouldn't know a clean window if it hit you on the head.
A professional trad cleaner can guarantee quality.
Doesn't matter how good you are at wfp cleaning, you cant.
Sick of new wfp cleaners putting down guys who have forgot more about
cleaning windows than they will ever know.
Not getting involved in this argument BUT, I guarantee all our wfp work. Perfect results every time. NEVER had a call back yet. 3 years wfp.
Because of frame design its impossible to get perfect results every time using wfp.
I would say that 80% of my work would be perfect 20% wouldn't.
I have never got a call back in 4 years of wfp cleaning but I don't put it down to perfection.
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I've never had a call back for wfp work.
It's not due to the system, it's because I haven't got a phone.
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I know !
We were off on Thursday and Friday last week cause we're wfp we've nailed the work in the good weather. Drove past a couple of chaps we know ( and get on with ) a couple of times both days, theyre trad and theyre still working ! Point is were doing 30-40 jobs a day and theyre doing 20-25. We know this cause we did trad for 7 years. Weve spoken to them about going wfp and its all negative responses...hey ho !
So,in April you've run out of work. That doesn't mean you've nailed it,it means you don't have a full round. Plus,the other guys might be charging double what you do and be laughing at the part timers?
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frame design? OHHHH you mean the frames with 2 openers on top with 1 large window below. Its all about technique. ;D IF thats the frame design you mean?
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I've never had a call back for wfp work.
It's not due to the system, it's because I haven't got a phone.
lol
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I know !
We were off on Thursday and Friday last week cause we're wfp we've nailed the work in the good weather. Drove past a couple of chaps we know ( and get on with ) a couple of times both days, theyre trad and theyre still working ! Point is were doing 30-40 jobs a day and theyre doing 20-25. We know this cause we did trad for 7 years. Weve spoken to them about going wfp and its all negative responses...hey ho !
So,in April you've run out of work. That doesn't mean you've nailed it,it means you don't have a full round. Plus,the other guys might be charging double what you do and be laughing at the part timers?
OR
the wfp'ers have charged double and have earned what they need to earn. Who knows? I wish i was up to date with my work.
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I can trad and wfp, so if a potential customer is willing to pay x2 or x3 on a wfp price then I will trad. £££ ;-)
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I know !
We were off on Thursday and Friday last week cause we're wfp we've nailed the work in the good weather. Drove past a couple of chaps we know ( and get on with ) a couple of times both days, theyre trad and theyre still working ! Point is were doing 30-40 jobs a day and theyre doing 20-25. We know this cause we did trad for 7 years. Weve spoken to them about going wfp and its all negative responses...hey ho !
So,in April you've run out of work. That doesn't mean you've nailed it,it means you don't have a full round. Plus,the other guys might be charging double what you do and be laughing at the part timers?
OR
the wfp'ers have charged double and have earned what they need to earn. Who knows? I wish i was up to date with my work.
If anyone one is up to date by the end of April then their round isn't full. Be busy during summer and late during winter when it doesn't matter
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I don't see a problem here. We get these WFP V Trad threads about once a month.
I'm trad, so according to some on here, I must be thick. I work about 12 to 14 days a month, about 4 hours a day on about 300 or so domestic custies. I have a few commercial jobs too, but nothing to change the world. I work mostly MOD soldiers houses in Germany and have complete muppets as competiton, so no comparison with you guys in UK. However, I can say, hand on heart, if I worked on the type of windows that you guys have in UK, I'd be WFP. To get to some of the windows above porches and sloped roof buildings, it makes sense. But the biggest thing is safety.
Over here, nearly all windows are UPVC and one piece, so dead easy to clean trad. Many have vents, so a problem for WFP because or runs etc. Both methods have advantages, but I prefer trad for speed. I've been going for over 23 years by the way, and have slipped off my ladders once and am careful.
The trad guys out there in UK will always have a certain advantage over the WFP for now, as a lot of custies don't trust WFP if they don't know it. Also, any prat can go around waving a pole about and causing all sorts of bad press for the other WFPers.
This makes some WFP guys feel insecure and who can blame them. The amount of new vans around is down to the fact that working at height and a certain amount of skill are no longer needed in the game.
As long as trad guys are about, WFP guys have an uphill struggle to get and keep custies who still have a choice of method. If any person thinks trad guys use trad methods because they're thick, needs to take a good look at the trad guys who post on here. They tend to be older than 30, have had at least a fair amount of a good education and can type in English and not "bingo" or "Nokia" text.
They don't seem to post too often about kit problems, losing custies, or vehicle off the road, cant work problems. They very rarely ask for advice, as they've kept their business simple and contant. If that comes across as being thick to some of the more superior window cleaners on here, then that's the way they see it.
How some brag and bluster about earnings on here and how great they are is a real source of entertainment to some of us. The next post these people make is "How do I get commercial" or " How do I get more people to pay on time" etc etc. Then of course, in winter, after earning millions all year, they're broke because they can't work (yawn).
Newsflash guys. We are the bottom of the food chain in the service industry. We perform a service that isn't exactly life or death. If we don't clean the windows, nobody dies. So try get used to the fact that we aren't in a trade that's studied or learned, we just clean bloody windows. Some do it well with poles, some with a mop and squeegy. It's dead easy to earn good money for most of us. Those that have a problem with what method others use are just insecure and can't even clean a window without a van full of water, a 100 yard long hose, and a pole with a bloody brush on the end.
The funny part is when these "advanced window cleaners" come onto here asking how to clean the insides!!!!
I love this forum ;D ;D
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I don't see a problem here. We get these WFP V Trad threads about once a month.
I'm trad, so according to some on here, I must be thick. I work about 12 to 14 days a month, about 4 hours a day on about 300 or so domestic custies. I have a few commercial jobs too, but nothing to change the world. I work mostly MOD soldiers houses in Germany and have complete muppets as competiton, so no comparison with you guys in UK. However, I can say, hand on heart, if I worked on the type of windows that you guys have in UK, I'd be WFP. To get to some of the windows above porches and sloped roof buildings, it makes sense. But the biggest thing is safety.
Over here, nearly all windows are UPVC and one piece, so dead easy to clean trad. Many have vents, so a problem for WFP because or runs etc. Both methods have advantages, but I prefer trad for speed. I've been going for over 23 years by the way, and have slipped off my ladders once and am careful.
The trad guys out there in UK will always have a certain advantage over the WFP for now, as a lot of custies don't trust WFP if they don't know it. Also, any prat can go around waving a pole about and causing all sorts of bad press for the other WFPers.
This makes some WFP guys feel insecure and who can blame them. The amount of new vans around is down to the fact that working at height and a certain amount of skill are no longer needed in the game.
As long as trad guys are about, WFP guys have an uphill struggle to get and keep custies who still have a choice of method. If any person thinks trad guys use trad methods because they're thick, needs to take a good look at the trad guys who post on here. They tend to be older than 30, have had at least a fair amount of a good education and can type in English and not "bingo" or "Nokia" text.
They don't seem to post too often about kit problems, losing custies, or vehicle off the road, cant work problems. They very rarely ask for advice, as they've kept their business simple and contant. If that comes across as being thick to some of the more superior window cleaners on here, then that's the way they see it.
How some brag and bluster about earnings on here and how great they are is a real source of entertainment to some of us. The next post these people make is "How do I get commercial" or " How do I get more people to pay on time" etc etc. Then of course, in winter, after earning millions all year, they're broke because they can't work (yawn).
Newsflash guys. We are the bottom of the food chain in the service industry. We perform a service that isn't exactly life or death. If we don't clean the windows, nobody dies. So try get used to the fact that we aren't in a trade that's studied or learned, we just clean bloody windows. Some do it well with poles, some with a mop and squeegy. It's dead easy to earn good money for most of us. Those that have a problem with what method others use are just insecure and can't even clean a window without a van full of water, a 100 yard long hose, and a pole with a bloody brush on the end.
The funny part is when these "advanced window cleaners" come onto here asking how to clean the insides!!!!
I love this forum ;D ;D
Should that be 'constant' or am I just thick? ;D
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frame design? OHHHH you mean the frames with 2 openers on top with 1 large window below. Its all about technique. ;D IF thats the frame design you mean?
Yes the very thing
Water fills up in the opener and slowly leaks out through the drain hole after you have left leaving dirty runs.
What is your technique to solve this. Wouldn't be to trad by any chance ;D
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Newsflash guys. We are the bottom of the food chain in the service industry. We perform a service that isn't exactly life or death. If we don't clean the windows, nobody dies. So try get used to the fact that we aren't in a trade that's studied or learned, we just clean bloody windows.
this belief about window cleaning being 'bottom of the food chain' is a funny one.
i see it crop up from time to time on this forum, with people saying they are looked down upon or whatever.
the thing is, is its not true to me at all.
most of the services people offer, and businesses people make money from are not life and death things. the whole fashion industry thrives off peoples wants, not their needs.
what about starbucks and costa? nobody's going to die without their cappuccino in the morning are they!
the people who are making great businesses out of window cleaning, realise that it is not just about cleaning windows at all. people want to feel good about them selves and their homes, and they are willing to pay for it... hence all the lawn care, window cleaning, domestic cleaning, power washing, nail polishing.... businesses springing up all over the place.
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Yes, good points, so why bother about what the "other" guys are using? I think you've missed my point on that score Richard.
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I must be odd, I don't care whether someone continues to use trad or not.
I'm mainly wfp but for some jobs, some parts are done trad and for a few, I do the whole job trad and what's worse, I use a ladder.
I try to use the advantages of both to their best potential but if some are 100% trad and they're happy to work that way, why should it bother anyone?
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Yes, good points, so why bother about what the "other" guys are using? I think you've missed my point on that score Richard.
hey chris,
on that score... i think you gave your rational very clearly! ;-)
if it makes sense to you, and you are making the money that you need, then it's good.
for me, i think in the UK that trad cleaners will eventually be able to charge a premium for thier service, but it will be the exception rather than the norm, so you wont get a street of houses wanting it. some windows (old etc) just dont come up well on WFP
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Yes, good points, so why bother about what the "other" guys are using? I think you've missed my point on that score Richard.
hey chris,
on that score... i think you gave your rational very clearly! ;-)
if it makes sense to you, and you are making the money that you need, then it's good.
for me, i think in the UK that trad cleaners will eventually be able to charge a premium for thier service, but it will be the exception rather than the norm, so you wont get a street of houses wanting it. some windows (old etc) just dont come up well on WFP
Charge a premium for trad?
Are you aving a laugh??
most trads have just come out the nick or are dolers!
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Yes, good points, so why bother about what the "other" guys are using? I think you've missed my point on that score Richard.
hey chris,
on that score... i think you gave your rational very clearly! ;-)
if it makes sense to you, and you are making the money that you need, then it's good.
for me, i think in the UK that trad cleaners will eventually be able to charge a premium for thier service, but it will be the exception rather than the norm, so you wont get a street of houses wanting it. some windows (old etc) just dont come up well on WFP
Very good point about trad guys charging premium in the future. I've said that a couple of years ago (in yet another WFP vTrad thread ;D )
There is a problem for some WFP guys though with that very issue, and the fact that custies still hav a choice of method.
Anyway, I'm upset because Beyern Munich have won tonight, so I'm off for a quick sulk before bed :( So it's good night from me.................. :(
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Yes, good points, so why bother about what the "other" guys are using? I think you've missed my point on that score Richard.
hey chris,
on that score... i think you gave your rational very clearly! ;-)
if it makes sense to you, and you are making the money that you need, then it's good.
for me, i think in the UK that trad cleaners will eventually be able to charge a premium for thier service, but it will be the exception rather than the norm, so you wont get a street of houses wanting it. some windows (old etc) just dont come up well on WFP
Charge a premium for trad?
Are you aving a laugh??
most trads have just come out the nick or are dolers!
they'll have to dress up like a WFP guy, all uniformed and smart van etc.
not the dole summer brigade 8)
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Oh the classic 2 opener problem.
Care and time is my technique.
We clean around 15 to 20 jobs on an average day. Thats 2 of us wfp cleaning all frames and doors including garage.
Average size houses nothing massive.
IMO i could clean them trad quicker if the customer just wanted the glass cleaning.
IMO correct water fed pole cleaning (cleaning ALL the frame including vent areas) takes longer than trad cleaning due to having too clean all the frames CORRECTLY in order too leave the customer with perfect results.
I see on a daily basis wfp'ers cleaning houses in a 1/4 of the time it takes us too clean the same size house, BUT, we charge well and keep ALL our customers without exception. (other than death and moving)
For example we clean a property for £12.50, the speed demons clean next door for £5.00.
The next month we clean them both for £12.50 each. Speed demons clean neither.
CORRECT WFP WILL provide perfect results everytime. IMO
This is not a go at trad or other speed demons. JUST MY OPINION>
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One of the reasons I I'm staying trad for this year at least is the cost of van insurance with van mount. I'm 25 next year so hopefully that will change
One upside to trad is the cheap running costs and gives a better finish in some cases. I had a system before and there was one houses I could never get perfect.
Either way if you clean a window, get paid and have a very happy customer your a successful window cleaner
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Oh the classic 2 opener problem.
Care and time is my technique.
We clean around 15 to 20 jobs on an average day. Thats 2 of us wfp cleaning all frames and doors including garage.
Average size houses nothing massive.
IMO i could clean them trad quicker if the customer just wanted the glass cleaning.
IMO correct water fed pole cleaning (cleaning ALL the frame including vent areas) takes longer than trad cleaning due to having too clean all the frames CORRECTLY in order too leave the customer with perfect results.
I see on a daily basis wfp'ers cleaning houses in a 1/4 of the time it takes us too clean the same size house, BUT, we charge well and keep ALL our customers without exception. (other than death and moving)
For example we clean a property for £12.50, the speed demons clean next door for £5.00.
The next month we clean them both for £12.50 each. Speed demons clean neither.
CORRECT WFP WILL provide perfect results everytime. IMO
This is not a go at trad or other speed demons. JUST MY OPINION>
most customers don't need perfect results though. 90% is good enough for them.
we charge £12.50 too for 3 bed semi and we are speed demons ;-)
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Oh the classic 2 opener problem.
Care and time is my technique.
We clean around 15 to 20 jobs on an average day. Thats 2 of us wfp cleaning all frames and doors including garage.
Average size houses nothing massive.
IMO i could clean them trad quicker if the customer just wanted the glass cleaning.
IMO correct water fed pole cleaning (cleaning ALL the frame including vent areas) takes longer than trad cleaning due to having too clean all the frames CORRECTLY in order too leave the customer with perfect results.
I see on a daily basis wfp'ers cleaning houses in a 1/4 of the time it takes us too clean the same size house, BUT, we charge well and keep ALL our customers without exception. (other than death and moving)
For example we clean a property for £12.50, the speed demons clean next door for £5.00.
The next month we clean them both for £12.50 each. Speed demons clean neither.
CORRECT WFP WILL provide perfect results everytime. IMO
This is not a go at trad or other speed demons. JUST MY OPINION>
most customers don't need perfect results though. 90% is good enough for them.
we charge £12.50 too for 3 bed semi and we are speed demons ;-)
+1
I can do 25 to 40 houses a day easily! ;D
No need to be slow,aslong as your confident of your own ability!Aslong as your getting recommendations then you know your doing a very good job!
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Its funny you should mention 90% I was having a conversation last week with a fellow windie.
If you took your car into a garage and they returned it saying they had fixed 90% of the problems or re-sprayed 90% of the damage how would you feel?
I am happy to provide 100%
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I provide 100% but still do a average house in 15 minutes or less and thats all glass frames sills
downstairs sills and doors cleaned with glass and sills and doors wiped off!
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where you from windiewasher?
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where you from windiewasher?
cleethorpes
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What size houses are you cleaning? Your average price your charging new customers gained this month seems low? or am i wrong?
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What size houses are you cleaning? Your average price your charging new customers gained this month seems low? or am i wrong?
Average price a tenner for a 3 bed semi.
Like i say dont take long.
Have bigger house £20 odd and big commercials.
If your only doing about 15 to 25 a day for 2 of you at 12.50 each.your not earning much at all.
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He we go again.
Willy waving time.
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;D and im waving a very small one. but does its job well!
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;D and im waving a very small one. but does its job well!
;D
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I do both but feel a lot better working from the ground where I will not fall off a ladder and usually earn more wfp
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The one thing i can not work out is window cleaners who have wfp but still trad as well .
Their is a window cleaner who works in the same area as me and has 3 lads working for him he has 1 lad using a trolley and him and the other 2 lads are trad . ??? ??? ???.
Why not go all out wfp it aint a money thing as he has the biggest round in the town all though i know he charges less than me .
If he got van full fitted he could get rid of one or even 2 of his lads and still get through all his work . Mike
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no end of new starter WFP go tits up in no time. you see em on Ebay all the time
im sure that if I went WFP id be joining em !!!
as said erlier in the thread the really big residential rounds are still done trad for a very good reason
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Next subject will be about hose pipe bans ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The one thing i can not work out is window cleaners who have wfp but still trad as well .
Their is a window cleaner who works in the same area as me and has 3 lads working for him he has 1 lad using a trolley and him and the other 2 lads are trad . ??? ??? ???.
Why not go all out wfp it aint a money thing as he has the biggest round in the town all though i know he charges less than me .
If he got van full fitted he could get rid of one or even 2 of his lads and still get through all his work . Mike
I think some still trad because some customers wont be educated in how wfp works, all they can see is wet windows and think were trying to cop out on hard work or using ladders.
i laddered for 9yrs and prefer wfp pole, but some customers cant accept change and become biased even when they clean perfect!
I have had comments like that was quick! so some customers just dont like it unless you look like your working hard and take longer, they see that has value for money?
(SO ITS NOT WHAT WE DO, ITS THE WAY THAT WE DO IT!)
Steve
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Talking to a trad guy a few weeks back who asked me would I recommend
wfp.
Told him the same as I have told others.
If you don't feel safe working from a ladder then go for it but don't listen to
the rubbish about it being quicker or better.
I could easily double the amount of houses that I clean in a day but my quality would
suffer.
As I have said before its all about competition its lucky for a lot of guys here that they don't
have any.
Kentkleen thanks for your reply on openers good to read posts from a quality cleaner wfp
needs more of you.
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Talking to a trad guy a few weeks back who asked me would I recommend
wfp.
Told him the same as I have told others.
If you don't feel safe working from a ladder then go for it but don't listen to
the rubbish about it being quicker or better.
I could easily double the amount of houses that I clean in a day but my quality would
suffer.
As I have said before its all about competition its lucky for a lot of guys here that they don't
have any.
Kentkleen thanks for your reply on openers good to read posts from a quality cleaner wfp
needs more of you.
Lol.you seem bitter about wfp,the water and anything else associated with it.
Your one of two things,you cant afford wfp or someone with wfp has robbed all your work.
all my custys love wfp and have said so much better than trad and a lot of these are old and ex windys say the same.
Does that mean im good John?
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Talking to a trad guy a few weeks back who asked me would I recommend
wfp.
Told him the same as I have told others.
If you don't feel safe working from a ladder then go for it but don't listen to
the rubbish about it being quicker or better.
I could easily double the amount of houses that I clean in a day but my quality would
suffer.
As I have said before its all about competition its lucky for a lot of guys here that they don't
have any.
Kentkleen thanks for your reply on openers good to read posts from a quality cleaner wfp
needs more of you.
Thanks for that 'John'.
;D ;D
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33 minutes.
2 of us, eating and drinking as we went!
The traddies took the same - but on the shiny concrete one footed the other.
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I am 100% wfp and always will be but I don't make it out to be something its not.
I am prepared to find fault with it in order to improve it and to prevent future problems.
Yes I do get bitter when I am not offered the job because some splash and dash wfp cleaner
has ruined its reputation.
I am not having a dig at any cleaner here but would be lying if I said that I didn't think the speedsters
do more harm than good to the wfp cause.
I am a very happy wfp window cleaner :'( :'(
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WFP is so much quicker than Trad, we used to clean a large university it would take 6 winodow cleaners 3 long days (7am-4pm) when we switched over to WFP we got it down to 4 men 2 days, that is a massive saving in labour costs.
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I mainly use wfp but also do some trad work.
I've been told by customers of bad experiences they have had in the past from trad and wfp window cleaners.
It does not matter in most cases if a window is cleaned with wfp or squeegee, but the defining factor is the care and effort taken by the window cleaner.
Bad results are mostly due to laziness on the window cleaners part.
However I would agree wfp is faster, safer and the most effective way to get to hard to reach windows which is why I choose to use it.
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each to their own
Trad = potential of making a nice living but lots of hard work
Wfp= potential of making a nice living less hard work
im a lazy bugger ;D
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So it would seem that "they" continue trad because they are:
1. (a) Frightened to explain to their customers how it's going to be.
(b) Frightened that their custies will use another trad guy who is frightened to tell his customers how it's going to be.
(c) Too proud to admit they (or worse - their assistant) might fall from a ladder if they climb one a hundred times a day.
2. Not convinced that they can do a good enough job wfp.
3. (a) Not, in general as business orientated as a wfp user.
(b) Not, in general as motivated as a wfp user.
4. Older part-timers topping up their pensions 'til they shuffle off the mortal coil or a ladder.
5. Doleys topping up their beer money.
6. Bungalow Bill.
Feel free to tell me any I've missed ...
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Next subject will be about hose pipe bans ;D ;D ;D ;D
to early yet wait until next week. ;D it will happen
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So it would seem that "they" continue trad because they are:
1. (a) Frightened to explain to their customers how it's going to be.
(b) Frightened that their custies will use another trad guy who is frightened to tell his customers how it's going to be.
(c) Too proud to admit they (or worse - their assistant) might fall from a ladder if they climb one a hundred times a day.
2. Not convinced that they can do a good enough job wfp.
3. (a) Not, in general as business orientated as a wfp user.
(b) Not, in general as motivated as a wfp user.
4. Older part-timers topping up their pensions 'til they shuffle off the mortal coil or a ladder.
5. Doleys topping up their beer money.
6. Bungalow Bill.
Feel free to tell me any I've missed ...
You forgot "trad guys are thick" Malc.
Let's turn the question around. Why are guys WFP?
Because they got into a job that means developing enough skill to do a decent job and get paid for it, but have no hand/eye co-ordination.
They got into a business that requires you to work above 2 meters off the ground, even though they suffer from fear of heights.
They got into a business that is generally looked upon as low tech "can't get a proper job" / dole scrounger so try to make it technical by working with Coi tank pumps and warning signs placed on pavements ;D
Take ya pick 8) I'll stick with being thick and only needing to work for 12 to 14 days a month, and being home for 1pm on those days I do work.
It's all about setting your prices right you clever people. I think you'll find that people who can't set their prices accordingly, have to work bank holidays and most weekends.
That's what you need to worry about lads, not what method you use. ::)roll
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They both clean windows. There's only two principles to window cleaning, for me. Break down whatever is on the window and then get rid of it. Both methods do this, so let's not pretend wfp is that much different to trad.
Same principles, different methods.
Some prefer either method for different reasons- safety, speed, less complication etc.
I don't know why people get defensive about the way they do the same job.
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Neither do I Griff. I just notice that it seems to bother WFP blokes enough to make them start a thread about it every few weeks. It's all about making money. Snobbery amoung cleaners eh? Who'd have thought it ;D
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For me personally using wfp is safer, I did many years trad, and had a serious fall resulting in broken bones. Wfp is a hassle getting started with, and is it an added expense to start with . . . . but how much value do you put on your life ?
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i love trad it breaks my day up nicely i get really bored with the pole all day every day .... its not all about money in my eyes ..
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i been doing trade for 5 years enjoyed it to start with then about 3 years past and i really got bored of it and now i have recently got a van mount wfp system and its the best bloody investment ever wish i got 1 at the beginning makes a lot more money. picking up bigger work doing houses a lot more quicker and its really motivating me now i have realized how much more money i can earn. ;D
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Neither do I Griff. I just notice that it seems to bother WFP blokes enough to make them start a thread about it every few weeks. It's all about making money. Snobbery amoung cleaners eh? Who'd have thought it ;D
I agree, C.
You used the word 'insecure' earlier and I think that's right. Some wfp'ers don't like presence of trad, so they can't be that confident of the pole.
But some tradders won't recognise the benefits of a wfp system.
Silly, really.
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I love being trad, I worked with a family friend who's trad and saw his huge earnings, and started my own round, it's all I know, never bothered with wfp, and I really think people who are wfp need to accept that there will always be trad cleaners, so leave us be! We're all trying to make a living, and that's that!
I've nothing against wfp, I'm just happy with trad, I'm building a good solid round and can earn very good money in short time.
The other thing I seem to get A LOT is customers saying 'oh you do it off ladders, I'm so glad, that pole thingy is useless' - not my words, these are customers.
Makes me want to stay trad, especially as a lot of people prefer it.
When I'm old, that's the time I might invest in a pole system.
Trad is low cost, low maintenance, very few overheads, and almost always happier customers. The truth is trad will always be the better job, and I think that's why a lot of wfp guys seem to make these threads and moan about ladders, safety etc.
We're all window cleaners, so lets leave it be!
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The pole thingy is useless in useless peoples hands .
Their wont always be trad cleaners as eventually they will retire and WFP will take over as it is in my work area over 5 yrs ago i was the only windy to use wfp , Now 4 lads have converted to wfp
In the right hands wfp does a far better job frames are cleaned to a spotless finish and doors are washed down i would love to see a trad cleaner do a better job than me ;D ;D . Mike
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Yeah Mike, but some customers still don't like it. That's why some of the WFP guys on here think they need to convince us all to convert. As was said earlier, who cares what method someone uses? It's about earning. We're all doing the same job, but some of us are thick. ;D
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We offer both & always will; there are advantages to both and also disadvantages.
Some customers just don't like wfp particularly on bottom windows and you can't 'educate' them because they don't want to be educated. We are in a service industry and if the customer wants something and it's possible to deliver that safely then that's fine by me.
I don't understand why there is so much animosity from some wfp cleaners to trad cleaners, we do the same job; we just get there in different ways :)
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Some customers dont like wfp because they have been used to trad for so long and dont know anything different,
But what i cannot understand about custys of trad cleaners is why they are content to have dirty window frames the glass is clean but the top of the frames are filthy and the doors are not much better why put up with a second or third rate service
I have over 15 yrs experience in window cleaning and most of them trad so i know all the ins & outs of both methods ,
But ultimately it is about quality of service provided that is what matters and wfp is better ;D ;D ;D . Mike
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Thanks for all your replies chaps.
Interesting that a few of you think that trad. does a better job. I suppose it means even more ladder climbs, leaning out to do the frames and cills thoroughly. No-one seems to claim it is as safe as houses anymore.
Also I note that old chestnut of "the customer prefers it" being mentioned. If true, why do my customers in this particular road and the other wfp cleaned windows by other operators not go over to the trad boys?
In this road I have noticed 3 other wfp'ers, the traddies I've mentioned and one other trad/gardener who turns up in a classic MkIII Cortina. So the customers have opportunity to move to trad if it's a better job.
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Thanks for all your replies chaps.
Interesting that a few of you think that trad. does a better job. I suppose it means even more ladder climbs, leaning out to do the frames and cills thoroughly. No-one seems to claim it is as safe as houses anymore.
Also I note that old chestnut of "the customer prefers it" being mentioned. If true, why do my customers in this particular road and the other wfp cleaned windows by other operators not go over to the trad boys?
In this road I have noticed 3 other wfp'ers, the traddies I've mentioned and one other trad/gardener who turns up in a classic MkIII Cortina. So the customers have opportunity to move to trad if it's a better job.
Because customers are like most of us, they hate change.
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' who turns up in a classic MkIII Cortina '
There's your answer, he's living a retro life, like those folks who dress in 40's gear, decorate their houses in that style etc, he [the Tradder] has probably got a pristine old style kitchen with shammies drying over the stove (or however they did it in the 70's), anyway let's celebrate diversity (not those gymnastics guys, our differences) in all things ;)
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I love being trad, I worked with a family friend who's trad and saw his huge earnings, and started my own round, it's all I know, never bothered with wfp, and I really think people who are wfp need to accept that there will always be trad cleaners, so leave us be! We're all trying to make a living, and that's that!
I've nothing against wfp, I'm just happy with trad, I'm building a good solid round and can earn very good money in short time.
The other thing I seem to get A LOT is customers saying 'oh you do it off ladders, I'm so glad, that pole thingy is useless' - not my words, these are customers.
Makes me want to stay trad, especially as a lot of people prefer it.
When I'm old, that's the time I might invest in a pole system
Trad is low cost, low maintenance, very few overheads, and almost always happier customers. The truth is trad will always be the better job, and I think that's why a lot of wfp guys seem to make these threads and moan about ladders, safety etc.
We're all window cleaners, so lets leave it be!
I guess you are in your 20's?
If so that is the age when we feel invincible.
I make no excuse for encouraging people to work is a safer manner, I even tut at people who, while being 20 yards from a pedestrian crossing choose to cross the road without using it.
Gold's question is a good one although it will bring out the defensive nature of most people.
The idea that the customers complain about pole work is also interesting.
In my 25 years experience as a window cleaner I have noticed that customers will tell you what they THINK rather than what they SEE regarding workmanship which is entirely based on their own prejudice.
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there were times i was content with trad but 2 ladder falls in 16 years and an increase in knee niggles plus more customers having extensions built,gravel and imprinted concrete driveways,decking etc made me think.
in the end i was that fed up with climbing ladders 100 times a day just to clean an upper window i was thinking of jacking it in.
seriously guys if your income is mainly maintenance window cleaning then wfp with a van mount system(IMO)and full carbon poles is the best way to earn more money safely.
as for cleaning?i would say that wfp does a more thorough job than trad due to the frames being cleaned.even if you clean frames trad you just wont get them as clean with a cloth as you do with pure water.
as for trad i do still do it every day albeit only for some ground floor windows.in fact i would go as far as to say i quite enjoy it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
as for customers i dont get many complaints at all.lots of them love the pole system from the feedback they give me.
regards
dazmond
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Five new cleaners in the area I work this week alone
all waiting to take my work if my quality drops.
If I was a trad cleaner there is no way id risk changing to wfp at this
moment in time.
I am sure there are a lot of trad guys who have looked into going wfp checked out
the pros and cons and decided if its not broke don't fix it.
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Five new cleaners in the area I work this week alone
all waiting to take my work if my quality drops.
If I was a trad cleaner there is no way id risk changing to wfp at this
moment in time.
I am sure there are a lot of trad guys who have looked into going wfp checked out
the pros and cons and decided if its not broke don't fix it.
If however we break, it may be difficult to fix it!
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Some customers dont like wfp because they have been used to trad for so long and dont know anything different,
But what i cannot understand about custys of trad cleaners is why they are content to have dirty window frames the glass is clean but the top of the frames are filthy and the doors are not much better why put up with a second or third rate service
I have over 15 yrs experience in window cleaning and most of them trad so i know all the ins & outs of both methods ,
But ultimately it is about quality of service provided that is what matters and wfp is better ;D ;D ;D . Mike
Yeah Mike, now tell that to all those custies who cancelled. Simples. ;D
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Yeah Mike, but some customers still don't like it. That's why some of the WFP guys on here think they need to convince us all to convert. As was said earlier, who cares what method someone uses? It's about earning. We're all doing the same job, but some of us are thick. ;D
Well said. I clean frames, and doors on people who ask, and there always happy, I've picked up many a customer who've had a wfp service that just isn't good enough.
WFP has its benefits and is great for anything high and big, commercial buildings etc, I'm not anti it, I just don't see the point forking out £££ on it when people seem happier with me using the trad method.
I will one day probably incorporate a wfp system, but probably not till I'm a lot older! Besides, ladders keep me fit!
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Yeah Mike, but some customers still don't like it. That's why some of the WFP guys on here think they need to convince us all to convert. As was said earlier, who cares what method someone uses? It's about earning. We're all doing the same job, but some of us are thick. ;D
Well said. I clean frames, and doors on people who ask, and there always happy, I've picked up many a customer who've had a wfp service that just isn't good enough.
WFP has its benefits and is great for anything high and big, commercial buildings etc, I'm not anti it, I just don't see the point forking out £££ on it when people seem happier with me using the trad method.
I will one day probably incorporate a wfp system, but probably not till I'm a lot older! Besides, ladders keep me fit!
Falling off them could keep you dead.
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So could 500 kilo's of water when it hits the back of your seat when you smack your van into the car in front. 23 years on ladders and slipped in my first year once. Bruised and smarter about being careful with ladders was the result.
As I said earlier, convince your custies, not other windies. Custies want clean windows, how you do it is upto you. It's a good thing that your custies have a choice, isn't it? ;) They chose you, be happy about that and leave everyone else to choose how they work.
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So could 500 kilo's of water when it hits the back of your seat when you smack your van into the car in front. 23 years on ladders and slipped in my first year once. Bruised and smarter about being careful with ladders was the result.
As I said earlier, convince your custies, not other windies. Custies want clean windows, how you do it is upto you. It's a good thing that your custies have a choice, isn't it? ;) They chose you, be happy about that and leave everyone else to choose how they work.
While I don't disagree with you I would be interested to know what the likelihood of this happening is.
I can name 6 people who have either died or have been seriously injured in the last 18 months due to falling off ladders yet I don't know of anyone who has had a serious injury or indeed any injury because they travel with water in their van.
Yes it's your choice, but this is a public forum, if I wish to chip in and inform I will. ;)
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do you ever get that feeling . this topic goes round and round and round and round and then some .... lots of dangerous things around ... mountain climbing for one and people do that for fun . if a tradder wants to trad and its a risk surely its down to their choice.. i always thought we lived in a free country ... booo to the health and safety brigade .its a boring arguement ... so many dangerous things in life .life is full of dangers ,,i think tradders get more chance of being mugged for their daily loot than falling from ladders .. should there be a ban on collecting cash...
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do you ever get that feeling . this topic goes round and round and round and round and then some .... lots of dangerous things around ... mountain climbing for one and people do that for fun . if a tradder wants to trad and its a risk surely its down to their choice.. i always thought we lived in a free country ... booo to the health and safety brigade .its a boring arguement ... so many dangerous things in life .life is full of dangers ,,i think tradders get more chance of being mugged for their daily loot than falling from ladders .. should there be a ban on collecting cash...
The difference is that window cleaning is a job of work. It's what we do so that we can afford to do fun stuff like climb mountains.
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So could 500 kilo's of water when it hits the back of your seat when you smack your van into the car in front. 23 years on ladders and slipped in my first year once. Bruised and smarter about being careful with ladders was the result.
As I said earlier, convince your custies, not other windies. Custies want clean windows, how you do it is upto you. It's a good thing that your custies have a choice, isn't it? ;) They chose you, be happy about that and leave everyone else to choose how they work.
While I don't disagree with you I would be interested to know what the likelihood of this happening is.
I can name 6 people who have either died or have been seriously injured in the last 18 months due to falling off ladders yet I don't know of anyone who has had a serious injury or indeed any injury because they travel with water in their van.
Yes it's your choice, but this is a public forum, if I wish to chip in and inform I will. ;)
You need to inform tradders that WFP exists? ;D Or that you can't fall off WFP? ;D Just convince your custies mate. That's all you need to do.
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should there be a ban on collecting cash...
[/quote]
DONT go giving HMRC any stupid ideas like this ;D ;D ;D
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The pole thingy is useless in useless peoples hands .
Their wont always be trad cleaners as eventually they will retire and WFP will take over as it is in my work area over 5 yrs ago i was the only windy to use wfp , Now 4 lads have converted to wfp
In the right hands wfp does a far better job frames are cleaned to a spotless finish and doors are washed down i would love to see a trad cleaner do a better job than me ;D ;D . Mike
Well said :)
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The pole thingy is useless in useless peoples hands .
Their wont always be trad cleaners as eventually they will retire and WFP will take over as it is in my work area over 5 yrs ago i was the only windy to use wfp , Now 4 lads have converted to wfp
In the right hands wfp does a far better job frames are cleaned to a spotless finish and doors are washed down i would love to see a trad cleaner do a better job than me ;D ;D . Mike
.
I did an inside and out clean today (trad). They came up immaculate. Please convince me that wfp would have yielded better results on the insides. ;D ;D ;D
John.
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So the reasons that go toward a window cleaner remaining or starting trad. is believing that ...
1. As many people carrying a large amount of water in their vehicle are maimed or killed as those falling using ladders.
2. As many people collecting cash are as likely to be maimed or killed as those falling using ladders.
3. A tradder will do a better job than a wfp'er because the method is more important than the operator.
4. The customer can tell you the method you will use to clean their windows.
5. That trad will gain you more customers than wfp, even when balanced against the time taken to clean frames and doors and missing out impossible to reach windows.
6. It doesn't matter if you earn less because the running costs of wfp outweigh the gains made.
Hmmmmmm ... ok ... any other reasons?
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I'd like to take this oppertunity to say I was trad for 9 years before turning WFP ;D
(only wfp tops mind, still trad bottoms)
I'll never understand why people still do this!
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I'd like to take this oppertunity to say I was trad for 9 years before turning WFP ;D
(only wfp tops mind, still trad bottoms)
Perhaps if you work out of a car and need to save water?
I'll never understand why people still do this!
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So the reasons that go toward a window cleaner remaining or starting trad. is believing that ...
1. As many people carrying a large amount of water in their vehicle are maimed or killed as those falling using ladders.
2. As many people collecting cash are as likely to be maimed or killed as those falling using ladders.
3. A tradder will do a better job than a wfp'er because the method is more important than the operator.
4. The customer can tell you the method you will use to clean their windows.
5. That trad will gain you more customers than wfp, even when balanced against the time taken to clean frames and doors and missing out impossible to reach windows.
6. It doesn't matter if you earn less because the running costs of wfp outweigh the gains made.
Hmmmmmm ... ok ... any other reasons?
Malc, are you really interested about why tradders do it trad, or just looking to be a new Barry Mallet? I reckon that in about 10 years time, when nearly all windies are WFP, any tradder will be able to cherry pick the best work where custies want trad and at a top price.
I'll be changed over to carpet and upholstery cleaning by then thank God. 8)
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I'd like to take this oppertunity to say I was trad for 9 years before turning WFP ;D
(only wfp tops mind, still trad bottoms)
Perhaps if you work out of a car and need to save water?
I'll never understand why people still do this!
There is still no logic behind that argument mate. Sorry.
??? ???
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>Crispy/Cozy
Yes I am really interested - and the reasons I reflected in my last post are the ones given by tradders in this thread.
None of them make sense to me although I can understand the emotion behind them.
Distilling it all down, the only one I can see that makes sense and not mentioned by anyone thus far is the part time guy (as in a couple of half days a week) who gets out from his wife's feet and does it as a bit of exercise, top up my pension sort of thing.
Bit like my Uncle who retired at 65 from his job managing a traditional hardware shop and did part time gardening/handyman stuff for his old biddy custies to top up his pension and pay his way to Australia to see the grandchildren every two years. Or my Granddad who retired as a copper and did a bit of p/t window cleaning in the 1950's.
But in this day and age a pension top up, semi-retired windie could easily have a small wfp/trolley set up in his car; but I can understand him thinking "why bother, I'm winding down anyway ..."
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Some window cleaners are as thick as s..t, you will never convince them in a million years.
;D
There is your answer.
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Some window cleaners are as thick as s..t, you will never convince them in a million years.
;D
There is your answer.
Yes, there's your answer. A snob among window cleaners!! Who'd have thought that someone in this game could actually be a snob because they use a different method! ;D Whatever method we use, we're window cleaners, and as such, most of the public think you landed in this game because you're thick or just between jail visits.
Some are really thick though.
Gold, I see your point. Others won't be able to though. Some think that method is somehow related to intelligence. Says it all really.
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Hi Crispy
I am not a snob, I am someone that has worked in the window cleaning industry since 1979 and I suspect I know more window cleaners than any one that uses this forum, and belive me some of them (20% ish) are so stupid it defies belief.
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OK I feel I need to clean up a few things here ::)roll
I have been trad for 8 years and now WFP for 8 years as well so I know both methods and can compare
First thing is this about WFP not on par with trad is nonsene WFP is as good as Trad .
second this thing about WFP is better trad is not true trad does an excellant job as well
If you are trad and have picked up work from WFP that is no differance to a WFP picking up bad trad work....
OK now that is out of the way back to the question ( Why do they continue trad? )
loads of reasons cost ? not knowing WFP well enough customers not liking WFP and just sticking with trad
I hated wfp at first but after getting into it I love and would not go back. what ever you decide to do ( trad cleans ) its up to you but if you lot are happy than thats fine with me ;D
I know wfp cleaners keep on about health and safty but fellow window cleaners have your best intrest in heart and customers don't, so give them a little lean way when they go on and on
all the best Adders ;)
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Bump.
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Bump.
Is that the noise of someone falling off their ladder?
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Bump.
Is that the noise of someone falling off their ladder?
No, over your mat!
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But why should you fall from a ladder if used the right way,someone footing the ladder,replace rubber feet when they should be done,not over reaching.
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How many people have someone handy to foot the ladder?
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Help i have spotting on my windows please help ;D
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Help i have spotting on my windows please help ;D
Help, my employee smashed a window with his ladder; fell down a hole in the garden, what should I do?
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But why should you fall from a ladder if used the right way,someone footing the ladder,replace rubber feet when they should be done,not over reaching.
Like your employee did smashing a window as it fell?
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trad or wfp whatever you use....im still the best window
licker in my area. :D
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So gold. Your uncle had a Trad hardware shop . ;D
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So gold. Your uncle had a Trad hardware shop . ;D
No he was only the manager! Don't put him higher in life than he was! 1946-1984 - half a life time selling paraffin heaters and dustbin lids to old biddies and nails by the pound to DiY wannabees. I worked there as a Saturday lad in the 70's. Great fun.
Like "Open All Hours" in hardware.
Granville Gold - I might make that my "new" name. Hmmmm ...
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There's another good reason for working Trad that nobody mentioned-
A lot of people work as window cleaners because it's a nice hassle-free kinda job.
With WFP this is not so!
There are constant problems with WFP, e.g. snagging hosepipes in cluttered gardens, equipment breakdowns, freezing water.. ping around on a weekend changing resin and filters, taking poles apart to clean them etc etc.
In comparison Trad's quite relaxing and enjoyable!
I use both, depending on the job, I do earn a bit more using WFP, but enjoy it more when working Trad.
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omg pack it in you lot who cares trad sometimes leaves smears and pole sometimes leaves runs its just dawn to personal opinion witch one u go for if u can trad u can pole and if u got a pole u can trad nether of them is rocket science ::)roll
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Help i have spotting on my windows please help ;D
Help, my employee smashed a window with his ladder; fell down a hole in the garden, what should I do?
At least he could get out of the hole with the ladder; you couldn't with a wfp.
There's your answer.
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your only aloud to use ladders if u cant get to it by any other means its a last resort so if your using them all the time then your breaking that law at some stage there will be a time when u will not be able to use ladders at all so then what are trad meant to do i would get a system. more and more ppl are falling off ladders it will be band its just a case off when . and if they don't band it then it will be a case that u will have to drill wholes in wall to secure the ladder were hard hats and be harnessed on have someone foot the ladder and that's a lot more hassle then wfp . ;D
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its the law your only aloud to use ladders if all other means is not available its a last resort so if your using them all the time then your breaking that law at some stage there will be a time when u will not be able to use ladders at all so then what are trad meant to do i would get a system before its to late more and more ppl are falling off ladders it will be banned its just a case off when . and if they don't ban it then u will have to drill wholes in wall to secure the ladder were hard hats and be harnessed on have someone foot the ladder and that's a lot more hassle then wfp . ;D
Your either drunk or 10 years old ::)roll
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its simple dawn to the point. i done it like that so u could understand it mate. ::)roll and that's very adult of u to say so i don't no if u have noticed but everyone used to use ladders but sadly rules are coming in slowly ppl are using them less and less due to health and safety and insurance reasons and stuff .
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Different jobs require different methods end of. 25years window cleaning and I do both trad and wfp. To me there's no argument , there's no right or wrong but in an ideal world you can do both. What is wrong is people calling others thick.
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its the law your only aloud to use ladders if all other means is not available its a last resort so if your using them all the time then your breaking that law at some stage there will be a time when u will not be able to use ladders at all so then what are trad meant to do i would get a system before its to late more and more ppl are falling off ladders it will be banned its just a case off when . and if they don't ban it then u will have to drill wholes in wall to secure the ladder were hard hats and be harnessed on have someone foot the ladder and that's a lot more hassle then wfp . ;D
Your either drunk or 10 years old ::)roll
He is neither, that was one of the first lies that wfp dealers used to tell people who were starting up.
I am sure there are a lot of people out there who still believe it.
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i mean i am not saying that wfp is better i just like to no i have that back up in case laws change that's really all i am trying to say i must admit trad is good but its jut a case of weighing up the odds and for me it was worth the money buying wfp and i am happy that ppl still do trad because it means more work for us guys with wfp lol ;D
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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i mean i am not saying that wfp is better i just like to no i have that back up in case laws change that's really all i am trying to say i must admit trad is good but its jut a case of weighing up the odds and for me it was worth the money buying wfp and i am happy that ppl still do trad because it means more work for us guys with wfp lol ;D
Amazing post, well said. I'll change over to WFP tomorrow now. What a great post. Amazing. This forum needs more people like you. Where do I sign?
STFU
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only heaving a giggle didn't mean to upset anyone :(