Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: benny donnelly on April 23, 2013, 02:45:23 pm

Title: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: benny donnelly on April 23, 2013, 02:45:23 pm

Just really want to put this out there see what advise I get...

At present I have a part time lad who works 3 days a week and more if I need him, I have built and am still building my round up and have to date nearly a full 4 weekly cleaning cycle were I am flat out weather depending...

Now my part time lad is a gem as he hasn't let me down yet, is 100% to deal with, is good with customers and has even got me quite a few jobs...

What I'm thinking is if I sent him out in a van of his own and had the 2 of us cleaning I could really build up my business a lot quicker, weed out the hassle customers and focus more on the good ones...

If I was to do it I would go over the vat threshold therefore having to increase prices, extra admin, accountants fees, running costs etc and I'm just thinking if I was to weigh it all up am I better staying as I am or would I be mad not to plough on and go for it?

Any words of wisdom for me?  ;)
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: richywilts on April 23, 2013, 05:05:35 pm
my advice from experience would be weed out the crap first build up where your round is 95 % decent customers for a good year or two get some savings behind you, keep looking after your vans, keep marketing and then when its too much and business is so good then make a decision

Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: PoleKing on April 23, 2013, 05:36:36 pm
Don't 'just cross' it.
£100k+
I'm not VAT registered and don't want to be but that's what I'd do.
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: a900 on April 23, 2013, 05:42:12 pm
If turnover is approaching vat threshold I would focus on increasing the profit
Margin and avoid going over.
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: HampshireWindowCleaning on April 23, 2013, 06:08:17 pm
If you go over the vat threshold, do you pay vat on just the turnover that is past the threshold, or do you have to pay vat on the entire turnover, i'm guessing it's the latter
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: dave0123 on April 23, 2013, 06:30:22 pm
you charge 20% on all jobs you complete when you are vat registered its not really based on turnover.

so it a job quoted £10 + vat would be £12
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: steve rix on April 23, 2013, 06:34:20 pm
Just pocket all the cash!!
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: johnny bravo on April 23, 2013, 06:39:05 pm
only you know how much you make.      what would the vat be for   xtra washing up liquid.  if I told my customers im going to charge vat,   I think theyed drop me.   unless you charge commercial  business es
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: one eyed window cleaning on April 23, 2013, 07:19:13 pm
Is it possible to split the business in to two, one comercial and the other domestic? Somebody on here must now , if you can you could keep the domestic under the vat threshold. And as for the comercial they are more than likely to be  registered vat so could clame it back ??? ;-)
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: telfordwindowclnr on April 23, 2013, 07:29:19 pm
Interesting thread this.

I had a meeting last with my accountant as the solar stuff is taking off so much, I will hit the VAT threshold shortly.

There are comments above which say it is not based on turnover, my accountant says it is. He says it is if you go over 77K during any 12 month period you MUST go
VAT registered. Can anyone explain the discrepancy? Thank you.

He also advised I would be better having a separate solar company and go VAT registered from day 1.
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: Rob_Mac on April 23, 2013, 07:38:00 pm
Steve

You are right and on every sale you have to add 20% but you can also use the 20% on purchases to reduce your VAT bill every quarter.

I would say to anyone who is getting near -  get an accountant and let them help you through it. Mine has found an invoice for £3000.00 that I thought had been paid. he is worth every penny I pay him!!!

Rob ;D
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: Rob_Mac on April 23, 2013, 07:39:56 pm
Splitting a domestic & commercial window business wont happen, it is an extremely thin line.

Steve will get away with splitting the solar stuff from his window cleaning because there is enough difference between them

Rob ;D
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: 8weekly on April 23, 2013, 07:48:27 pm
Splitting a domestic & commercial window business wont happen, it is an extremely thin line.

Steve will get away with splitting the solar stuff from his window cleaning because there is enough difference between them

Rob ;D
Maybe. Debatable though or else we could seperate out gutter clearance, fascia cleaning etc.
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: Rob_Mac on April 23, 2013, 07:52:40 pm
I agree and he would need to take advice. The HMRC people will pull your life apart if they think they have reason to. I know someone who has been investigated - they want to know absolutely everything and wont be shut up easily.

Rob ;D
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: one eyed window cleaning on April 23, 2013, 07:57:29 pm
Or could your wife, partner help to split the business ? A question for a good account.
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: one eyed window cleaning on April 23, 2013, 08:02:09 pm
I agree and he would need to take advice. The HMRC people will pull your life apart if they think they have reason to. I know someone who has been investigated - they want to know absolutely everything and wont be shut up easily.

Rob ;D




True I have a mate who paid a bit of cash and booked it, the tax man was bang on him .
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: Rob_Mac on April 23, 2013, 08:08:06 pm
I asked that one when I flew over the threshold and had to go back to catch up. My slip left me having to find a substantial sum and caused some right headaches.

Don't go over the threshold and ignore it, thinking you can level it up the following month, it doesn't work that way. Once your going over you have to go LTD, on a rolling year (as has been said).

You need to have separate everything to do that, vehicles, kit and paperwork etc. I asked my accountant about all of the above because I just didn't know, even then they may take a dim view of the arrangement.

I wouldn't give them any reason to look into my affairs - anymore than necessary. I am sure people do do the wife & husband thing but too close for me.

The positive side of going LTD for me is that it is like a badge, that you have got to a point where the larger commercial expect to be dealing with other limited companies.

I don't know any sole traders on my works, there are subbies everywhere but the main contractors are all Limited.

Rob ;D
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: niceandclean on April 23, 2013, 08:48:40 pm
Splitting a domestic & commercial window business wont happen, it is an extremely thin line.

Steve will get away with splitting the solar stuff from his window cleaning because there is enough difference between them

Rob ;D

Not if he is using the same van and equipment, same business premises ect ect as his window cleaning!
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: Rob_Mac on April 23, 2013, 08:56:37 pm
I am sure Steve will be taking advice from his accountant on this. I would never run any similar business without splitting it completely, I agree with you. Sorry I didn't dot my I's and cross my T's!!

Rob ;D
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: PoleKing on April 23, 2013, 09:04:48 pm
OEWC-I have just asked about the husband/wife split.
Even asked if on paper the wife could be a bookkeeper.
It was a very firm no.
You can try it but her majesty's finest will decide against it being legal and make you pay everything they think they are owed.
There was a case last year where they did it and now the precedent has been set.

Just MO but even Solar Steve may struggle to split. It could be argued that its all the same equipment being used and the only difference is the item being cleaned. I'm sure he'll take advice on it though.
Again JMO but the same could be said for fascia cleans...
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: LBWCS on April 23, 2013, 09:53:58 pm
OEWC-I have just asked about the husband/wife split.
Even asked if on paper the wife could be a bookkeeper.
It was a very firm no.
You can try it but her majesty's finest will decide against it being legal and make you pay everything they think they are owed.
There was a case last year where they did it and now the precedent has been set.

Just MO but even Solar Steve may struggle to split. It could be argued that its all the same equipment being used and the only difference is the item being cleaned. I'm sure he'll take advice on it though.
Again JMO but the same could be said for fascia cleans...
I agree. If THEY view it as vat avoidance then they will ask for all combined business's turnover
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: keyser soze on April 23, 2013, 10:35:39 pm
hey darren have you ever wondered how ''clean my windows'' (local window cleaning business) gets away with it???
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: telfordwindowclnr on April 23, 2013, 10:52:53 pm
Said in my first post i found this interesting, I'm even more interested now!

The whole point of my meeting with my accountant was to discuss these issues. He does not feel it is an issue to split the solar side as it turning out to be run in a completely different way to the rest of my business. I won't go into detail further about that. It is completely legit, you don't get the contracts we are getting if it is not. But I will not put out there the business model.

My accountant has said though that if I am going to split, it is advisable to do so sooner rather than later. There is an interim period between having a business sideline and then that becoming a business all on its own. Particularly with solar, my accountant and I feel that for now, we are running things correctly.

Spc in the UK is such a new industry that no one really knows yet if it will take off initially and then implode. There is no point setting up a company for it to go bust a little further down the line. That said, we realise that if we are to split, it is advisable to do so sooner rather than later because as some have you have said, the legal lines become a little blurry.

Personally, I have always worked as legit as I can and this solar thing will be done with equal diligence, if it happens.
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: roundbuilder on April 24, 2013, 08:21:09 am
Id have thought you would have smashed the vat barrier steve the way you go on here having to sub your work out??.
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: deeege on April 24, 2013, 08:27:50 am
Id have thought you would have smashed the vat barrier steve the way you go on here having to sub your work out??.

You do get a bit of that on the forums.

Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: dave0123 on April 24, 2013, 12:05:36 pm
You do not need to go LTD at all if you go vat registered
Title: Re: If turnover is approaching vat threshold
Post by: telfordwindowclnr on April 24, 2013, 01:11:14 pm
Id have thought you would have smashed the vat barrier steve the way you go on here having to sub your work out??.
That's understandable mick, but I only sub out the solar jobs which are too far away from me. If you have seen, Ive got a solar job near Plymouth today. That is 3 & 1/2 hours from me. it is not worth the travelling.

However, the bigger contracts are the reason we may split as they look like they may take us over the threshold.