Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Bens windows on April 06, 2013, 06:06:06 pm
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I am in the process of employing a Polish lad today ,he's 27 and no points on licence ,his license is Polish ,not European or British but i have checked the gov website and it says he can use that licence in this country ,The only problem i have is finding out for sure he has no points,For insurance purposes any driver can drive my van as long as over 25 and no points ,does anyone have any information which can help me ? Thanks
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If he is planning on staying in this country just get him to exchange his licence for a full uk one. Simple to do.
( my missus did it and her uk licence came back with a full motorbike qualification even though she has never ridden a bike in her life!!)
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Cheers Steve, ive just found out it costs £50 to do that and takes 3 weeks , im hoping it comes back with a clean licence , apparently he had points on licence but it goes after 1 year !
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I am in the process of employing a Polish lad today ,he's 27 and no points on licence ,his license is Polish ,not European or British but i have checked the gov website and it says he can use that licence in this country ,The only problem i have is finding out for sure he has no points,For insurance purposes any driver can drive my van as long as over 25 and no points ,does anyone have any information which can help me ? Thanks
If you have a valid EU/EEA licence, you can drive any vehicle covered by the categories shown on your licence for the periods set out below.
Ordinary licences
n Until you are 70 or have lived in GB for three years, whichever is longer.
Vocational licences
n If you are younger than 45, until you are 45 or have lived in Great Britain for five years, whichever is longer.
n If you are over 45 but under 65, until you are 66 or have lived in Great Britain for five years, whichever is sooner.
n If you are aged 65 or over, until you have lived in Great Britain for 12 months.
You must get a British driving licence to continue driving in Great Britain after these periods
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if he lived in uk for 3 years or more, he must get a british driving licence!
I know i am french and had to get a british one!
£50 and take 2-3 weeks
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if his licence is Polish,he has an european licence then ;)
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if he lived in uk for 3 years or more, he must get a british driving licence!
I know i am french and had to get a british one!
£50 and take 2-3 weeks
He has only just moved here ,so good for me :)
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if his licence is Polish,he has an european licence then ;)
haha yeh i understand that but his licence is so old that it was before they joined eu in 2003 ,so its a polish rather than european
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if his licence is Polish,he has an european licence then ;)
haha yeh i understand that but his licence is so old that it was before they joined eu in 2003 ,so its a polish rather than european
no so old if he is only 27 years old! anyway it doesn't matter, he has 3 years to get a british licence!
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Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
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Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
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Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
Your over-generalisation is rascism even if you don't want to think of yourself as fascist.
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Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
Bobby do you trust anyone? I have asked you this before..... Do you sleep with one eye open?
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if his licence is Polish,he has an european licence then ;)
haha yeh i understand that but his licence is so old that it was before they joined eu in 2003 ,so its a polish rather than european
no so old if he is only 27 years old! anyway it doesn't matter, he has 3 years to get a british licence!
Working the age out it looks like its just on the cusp of changing to eu if he got his licence on his 18th birthday,so he just missed out,but yeh looks like hes got 3 years either way
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Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
Have they managed to steal any work from you? As anyone would be im pretty worried about this happening ,but then it could happen if you employed English too , im gonna stamp my authority from the start and explain if he in some way cheats me at anything ie takes on extra work or pretends they have cancelled when they haven't then he's gone ! Ive had the majority of my customers for 8 years now and figure as long as i make an appearance every now and then it should be fine
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Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
:o :o Racist!!!! >:( >:(
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Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
Is there b******s.
Recently advertised a job, the number of British wasters who simply emailed me "applying for job" or something similar, with no cv, no covering letter, no contact details, was embarrassing. Clearly doing it to continue their benefit claims.
The foreign applicants I had at least made the effort, full cv's and letters, even in pigeon English, it was at least an effort to impress.
Can't believe the racists on here, in this day and age.
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Take a local lad on not some foreigner only here to take someones job.
Theres enough good young british people about without having to take a pole on!
Is there b******s.
Recently advertised a job, the number of British wasters who simply emailed me "applying for job" or something similar, with no cv, no covering letter, no contact details, was embarrassing. Clearly doing it to continue their benefit claims.
The foreign applicants I had at least made the effort, full cv's and letters, even in pigeon English, it was at least an effort to impress.
Can't believe the racists on here, in this day and age.
thank you for your post concept. I have reported windiewasher, we can't accept racist comment like that on this forum!
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Mod note:
I've had quite a few complaints about some of the comments on this post, I'll delete them, but please be aware that any further racist comments - and it's my opinion that counts - will result in deleted accounts.
Thank you for your kind co-operation.
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im sorry wasnt intending being racist i just feel that local lads should be given a chance!
i feel sorry for the youngsters in this country who are labelled lazy!
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i feel sorry for the youngsters in this country who are labelled lazy!
And that would be wrong too.
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bens windows how come you dont take one of the 10 redundant from the factory?
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im sorry wasnt intending being racist i just feel that local lads should be given a chance!
i feel sorry for the youngsters in this country who are labelled lazy!
apology accepted ;)
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im sorry wasnt intending being racist i just feel that local lads should be given a chance!
i feel sorry for the youngsters in this country who are labelled lazy!
apology accepted ;)
cheers pal im not racist but i worry for the man with his mortgage and kids that struggle to get jobs and the kids who stay on at school college uni ans theres nothing for them.
theres a man around my way who is on the dole who sweeps the streets for nothing,does a better job than probably 5 street sweepers in my area and gets nothing from the council.
When i have enough work i intend on offering him a job!
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im sorry wasnt intending being racist i just feel that local lads should be given a chance!
i feel sorry for the youngsters in this country who are labelled lazy!
apology accepted ;)
cheers pal im not racist but i worry for the man with his mortgage and kids that struggle to get jobs and the kids who stay on at school college uni ans theres nothing for them.
theres a man around my way who is on the dole who sweeps the streets for nothing,does a better job than probably 5 street sweepers in my area and gets nothing from the council.
When i have enough work i intend on offering him a job!
i know mate,very hard times for everyone
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Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
Bobby do you trust anyone? I have asked you this before..... Do you sleep with one eye open?
you tell me one East Euro that is just humming along in his job and not making waves and I might change my view but GENERALLY speaking they do rock the boat once its left the shore . I personally know loads of them , over many years too and on speaking/drinking terms too, so I Do know what im on about.
Great Britain is seen as the promised land paved with gold, when the truth hits that its paved with gold plate they get disgruntled ,id be the same if I landed in Vegas and didn't strike a jackpot on the strip-you get my point.
I never sleep with 1 eye open and I trust my crew who happen to be Brits these days and all are keen-ish youngsters under 19 apart from one of their mums who is probably mid to late 40s . I run my biz totally legit,anybod knows that's not easy with employees these days but its the only way
before somebody accuse me of racism, im not,iv plenty of Bangladesh,indian and heaps of old school Jamaican as customers
im only biased against anybody who tries to do me in or fleece the system. only last week I gained a job I previously lost to a English windie who dissed me ,later he started bragging to the customers how hes claiming benefits and doing nicely. they are angry now. I just knew he would screw up
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I employed a Bulgarian lad a couple of years back who had held a liscence for years, but the insurerers told me he counted as a new driver as it wasnt a UK liscence, so the premium was very high.
may not be the same if he has an EU liscence.
my experience was similar to employing anybody. he had his strengths and weaknesses. sometimes communicating with him was tricky, even tho he spoke very good english. sometimes he got the wrong end of the stick... but saying that i had an english guy just recently who didnt seem to hear what i said to him either... just heard what he wanted to. that's staff!
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you tell me one East Euro that is just humming along in his job and not making waves and I might change my view
I know of a couple from Eastern Europe who run an estate on a large house where I do the windows. They're always busy and conscientious.
Same can be said for another girl on another big estate.
I do the windows on a distribution warehouse, they employ lots of eastern euros there. All seem productive and enthusiastic.
D'you want more?
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it seems a bit too easy to be classed as racist these days, a wrong comment ( or a right comment that someone else disagrees with ) about a person/ group & every one is on you. its not racist to not like the actions of some people & complain about it, even if you make generalisations it doesn't automatically make you a racist.
i hate racism but, if you ask me i'd say i hate yanks ( i know its just americanism i hate eg george bush & ' do the math' & 'i dont do lunch etc' >:( >:( ) but i still have the mind set of i hate them. so am i racist then?
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you tell me one East Euro that is just humming along in his job and not making waves and I might change my view
I know of a couple from Eastern Europe who run an estate on a large house where I do the windows. They're always busy and conscientious.
Same can be said for another girl on another big estate.
I do the windows on a distribution warehouse, they employ lots of eastern euros there. All seem productive and enthusiastic.
D'you want more?
Thats alright get rid of the english workers and replace them with eastern europeans who save there money up and send it home.
take your rose tinted glasses off.
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im sorry wasnt intending being racist i just feel that local lads should be given a chance!
i feel sorry for the youngsters in this country who are labelled lazy!
Its not labeled lazy, I have had a few British and they just want easy money, and I put it down to the past governments which have spoiled these people.
People who come from other countries, haven’t got, social benefit, or free health care or other benefits that we get in this country, therefore they have to work hard for their money, and this has changed their way of thinking, that IF I DON’T WORK HARD I WILL DIE.
So when they come here, they see a great opportunity to better their life. And good for them. Any one who prepare to work hard deserve a good life, and in fact they are good for this country, they make this country more progressive plus they teach the lazy British to get off their ass and work for their money.
WIN, WIN situation i say :) wouldn’t you ?
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take your rose tinted glasses off.
I havent got rose tinted glasses on. I was replying to the statement.
I agree with the numbers of foreigners coming into the UK is wrong but I dont allow myself to respond in a rascist manner as a result. It isn't so black and white for me, there's a middle ground.
Do you clean the windows for anyone who wasn't born in this country?
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Id employ anyone who is a willing hard worker whatever there skin colour or nationalaty.
if you could have a pole who will happily do 30 houses a day and work overtime, leaflet and canvass for you to get the work done and keep you happy compared to 1 of richys guys who are lazy and take the p bodging it up with no respect for things doing drugs etc. You would prob be £300-600 better off a month having the hard working pole. I know who id choose.
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it seems a bit too easy to be classed as racist these days, a wrong comment ( or a right comment that someone else disagrees with ) about a person/ group & every one is on you. its not racist to not like the actions of some people & complain about it, even if you make generalisations it doesn't automatically make you a racist.
i hate racism but, if you ask me i'd say i hate yanks ( i know its just americanism i hate eg george bush & ' do the math' & 'i dont do lunch etc' >:( >:( ) but i still have the mind set of i hate them. so am i racist then?
Yes sure you are, because you are labeling people.
What is it you don’t like about American ?
Is it because they have a different life to you ? different view to you ?
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Oh come on, we cn excuse someone who doesnt like the Yanks, everyone knows Yanks are aren't even worthy ;D
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Id employ anyone who is a willing hard worker whatever there skin colour or nationalaty.
if you could have a pole who will happily do 30 houses a day and work overtime, leaflet and canvass for you to get the work done and keep you happy compared to 1 of richys guys who are lazy and take the p bodging it up with no respect for things doing drugs etc. You would prob be £300-600 better off a month having the hard working pole. I know who id choose.
I 2nd that :)
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Oh come on, we cn excuse someone who doesnt like the Yanks, everyone knows Yanks are aren't even worthy ;D
I have few American customers and i must they are some of my happy and polite customers :)
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im sorry wasnt intending being racist i just feel that local lads should be given a chance!
i feel sorry for the youngsters in this country who are labelled lazy!
Its not labeled lazy, I have had a few British and they just want easy money, and I put it down to the past governments which have spoiled these people.
People who come from other countries, haven’t got, social benefit, or free health care or other benefits that we get in this country, therefore they have to work hard for their money, and this has changed their way of thinking, that IF I DON’T WORK HARD I WILL DIE.
So when they come here, they see a great opportunity to better their life. And good for them. Any one who prepare to work hard deserve a good life, and in fact they are good for this country, they make this country more progressive plus they teach the lazy British to get off their ass and work for their money.
WIN, WIN situation i say :) wouldn’t you ?
+1
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Oh come on, we cn excuse someone who doesnt like the Yanks, everyone knows Yanks are aren't even worthy ;D
I have few American customers and i must they are some of my happy and polite customers :)
you know what all the Yanks I know personally I like. They seem genuine and friendly. Which puzzles me as I'd say there's something about them; but there isn't, there's loads of things about them. I do think they are probably the stupidest people on the planet, if you were to work out an average IQ of the Yanks and compare it to those of other nations. I also think theyre probably the fattest in general and the ugliest. I appreciate the fact they've self-promoted themselves to being the police of the planet and that they've done wonderful things like putting man on the moon and the Mars Rover. When they have news conferences though during times of tragedy and the whole bloody crew are stood behind this one individual, including the fella who sweeps up afterwards, I watch and wonder 'Why?. Whats happening? What're they doing?; Go and do some bloody work'. Its like The Muppet Show. Seriously, they all look like bleedin' Muppets.
Gun laws, how stupid is that? To protect themselves from themselves. Well. maybe they have a point in that case.
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I find watching Brits discussing race and immigration really funny ;D Now it's reached the point of saying that a nationality is a race!!! So a dislike of Americans is being racist ;D ;D
Be really careful what you post here people, if you show any opinion of any race, nationality or gender, you may be banned or abused and called racist.
By the way, in this case, if I found a guy willing to work, I'd employ him no matter where he came from. I've had polish guys working for me in the 90's. Most were good workers.
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Are you a yank you fat, ugly idiot?
;D ;D
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To the OP.
Employ the best people you can find regardless of race, colour or creed.
Vin
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Are you a yank you fat, ugly idiot?
;D ;D
I hate people from Basingstoke !! Fat stupid burger scoffing mongs. ;D ;D
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Oi i have american family and they are lovely so stop calling the americans.
The work yank is racist.lol. ;D
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If I must work trad. then I wouldn't employ polish; but then I employ the squeegee and applicator method or just scrim. Polish can smear if not applied very sparingly and buffed off vigorously.
Obviously wfp is best as no polish or soap is involved.
I do use polish on my shoes and my Mrs. will use it on wooden furniture or brass.
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If I must work trad. then I wouldn't employ polish; but then I employ the squeegee and applicator method or just scrim. Polish can smear if not applied very sparingly and buffed off vigorously.
Obviously wfp is best as no polish or soap is involved.
I do use polish on my shoes and my Mrs. will use it on wooden furniture or brass.
;D ;D
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Oi i have american family and they are lovely so stop calling the americans.
The work yank is racist.lol. ;D
Me too. I have an Uncle Sam.
I have an uncle from Eastern Europe, too. My Uncle Bulgaria is a real grafter.
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Are you a yank you fat, ugly idiot?
;D ;D
I hate people from Basingstoke !! Fat stupid burger scoffing mongs. ;D ;D
;D ;D
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Window cleaning will end up like the valeting trade the way you lot are employing them lol
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Just my 2bob on Americans...
I hate the 'do the math' thing too.
I particularly hated the
'Have a nice day' thing.
Stereophonics even wrote a song about it!
This was before I'd been there though. While there a number of people said 'have a nice day' to us. Bus boys, taxi drivers waiters etc.
I am a real skeptic and tend to think the worst of people until proven otherwise but when the yanks (you can say yank-its only racist if you mean offence (my mum says!)) said it-I genuinely believed them. It felt...nice.
Perhaps we don't understand a culture until we are immersed in it...
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As I have said before on this forum, The quality of UK applicants tends to be a lot poorer than those from abroad. Most British sent by Job Centres (but NOT all) are only interested in keeping their job seekers allowance. The Poles or other East Europeans over here tend to be the best workers from their own countrys trying to improve their lot. Believe me there are some VERY lazy Poles but by their very nature would not dream of getting of their backsides to look for work in their own country let alone emigrate!
Nowadys I only employ people who are recommended to me or people I know
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Just my 2bob on Americans...
I hate the 'do the math' thing too.
I particularly hated the
'Have a nice day' thing.
Stereophonics even wrote a song about it!
This was before I'd been there though. While there a number of people said 'have a nice day' to us. Bus boys, taxi drivers waiters etc.
I am a real skeptic and tend to think the worst of people until proven otherwise but when the yanks (you can say yank-its only racist if you mean offence (my mum says!)) said it-I genuinely believed them. It felt...nice.
Perhaps we don't understand a culture until we are immersed in it...
thats the problem though, i'm sure most yanks are great on their own, but i sometimes feel as if this country IS immersed in their culture especially when people who should know better like middle aged telly presenters go 'i'm loving it ' >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( i know kids adopt other slang & copy stuff but honestly.
MAYBE its not americans i dont like, maybe its just english who copy americans hmmmm
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Go there. Try living in their world for a week or 2 (not Disneyland!), ill bet you feel differently when you come home.
Know what you mean though-imitation is annoying.
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Bens Windows, are you the same Ben of 'Bens Gutters' fame?
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I could not be bothered to read the thread. Personally I would reccomend bees wax if you cant source this I would go for Mr sheen, It shines umpteen things clean you know!
Hope this helps.
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Bens Windows, are you the same Ben of 'Bens Gutters' fame?
http://www.benswindowcleaning.co.uk
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bens windows how come you dont take one of the 10 redundant from the factory?
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Ive asked my mate and hes not interested as wants something in that line of work but yeh good point il ask the others.
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Bens Windows, are you the same Ben of 'Bens Gutters' fame?
I didnt know bens gutters was national , Im located in Bmouth and have heard of him alot and a lot of my customers thought it was me ! They leave a flyer saying they have cleared next door neighbours gutters , seems to work for them.
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I could not be bothered to read the thread. Personally I would reccomend bees wax if you cant source this I would go for Mr sheen, It shines umpteen things clean you know!
Hope this helps.
Don't bother replying then.
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bens windows how come you dont take one of the 10 redundant from the factory?
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Ive asked my mate and hes not interested as wants something in that line of work but yeh good point il ask the others.
Ive asked my mate and hes not interested as wants something in that line of work but yeh good point il ask the others.
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UPDATE : I have narrowed it down to 1 Polish and 1 English,they are both the same age ,The Polish is coming out with me tomorrow and The English is Tuesday ,so I should decide by Wednesday !
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Just my 2bob on Americans...
I hate the 'do the math' thing too.
I particularly hated the
'Have a nice day' thing.
Stereophonics even wrote a song about it!
This was before I'd been there though. While there a number of people said 'have a nice day' to us. Bus boys, taxi drivers waiters etc.
I am a real skeptic and tend to think the worst of people until proven otherwise but when the yanks (you can say yank-its only racist if you mean offence (my mum says!)) said it-I genuinely believed them. It felt...nice.
Perhaps we don't understand a culture until we are immersed in it...
thats the problem though, i'm sure most yanks are great on their own, but i sometimes feel as if this country IS immersed in their culture especially when people who should know better like middle aged telly presenters go 'i'm loving it ' >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( i know kids adopt other slang & copy stuff but honestly.
MAYBE its not americans i dont like, maybe its just english who copy americans hmmmm
Hell, yeah; awesome post, dude.
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I could not be bothered to read the thread. Personally I would reccomend bees wax if you cant source this I would go for Mr sheen, It shines umpteen things clean you know!
Hope this helps.
Don't bother replying then.
Its called a sense of humour. I read the thread but you know that dont you.
No time to argue with strangers im off to bed.
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There are some very good Water Fed Poles ;D ;D
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Bens Gutters, I thought were based in Surrey...
A customer of mine in Grantham had Ben's Gutters do theirs.
50% cheaper than a load of other quotes and the customer couldn't praise them enough.
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i would go for the Polish thay work a lot harder
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There are lazy Polish as well as lazy locals.
I wonder how these people who come out with statements like go for
Polish because they work harder will feel in future, when their kids are not given a
chance because they are local and branded lazy.
By the same reason why not give all their own customers to Polish cleaning firms
as they would do a better job.
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Today's employee is tomorrow's competitor.
Do we really want to open the door of our industry to an army of eastern european workers who will happy to earn half what we earn? It won't take them long to realise they dont need to be employed, and can easily go-it alone, charge less and still be better off. Imagine how quickly word will spread in their community.
And all because they learned how easy it was to earn good money by being employed by someone for a year.
Very dangerous road to go down if you ask me, not just for you but for us all.
(and btw, nobody could blame eastern europeans for this, if I was polish I would do exactly the same.)
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There are some very good Water Fed Poles ;D ;D
Haha good one :)
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Bens Gutters, I thought were based in Surrey...
A customer of mine in Grantham had Ben's Gutters do theirs.
50% cheaper than a load of other quotes and the customer couldn't praise them enough.
Just found there website http://www.bensgutters.com/#/areas-we-service/4533262190
Must be a franchised company,well marketed and must be doing pretty good.
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There are lazy Polish as well as lazy locals.
I wonder how these people who come out with statements like go for
Polish because they work harder will feel in future, when their kids are not given a
chance because they are local and branded lazy.
By the same reason why not give all their own customers to Polish cleaning firms
as they would do a better job.
Good point,and if they did take over the cleaning firms ,would they take on only polish?
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Today's employee is tomorrow's competitor.
Do we really want to open the door of our industry to an army of eastern european workers who will happy to earn half what we earn? It won't take them long to realise they dont need to be employed, and can easily go-it alone, charge less and still be better off. Imagine how quickly word will spread in their community.
And all because they learned how easy it was to earn good money by being employed by someone for a year.
Very dangerous road to go down if you ask me, not just for you but for us all.
(and btw, nobody could blame eastern europeans for this, if I was polish I would do exactly the same.)
I am starting to agree with all this now, I took the Polish out for a trial run yesterday from 8:30 -4:30 and did what i would normally manage to do in a day with him,
First off,he was on time,presentable,and did what i said and he got the gist of it straightaway , he did seem very abrupt with me and seeemed a little like he was better than me ,but im sure that wouldn't matter as long as he did the work. What did worry me was the questions he was asking ie How much does the equipment cost ,how to make the water etc.. Ive decided to not employ this person as he later told me he had his own house in Poland which had been paid for by his late father , so i dont personally think he is worthy of the job as he doesn't seem like he needs it so much and also one rich customer of mine has specifically told me he HATES the way they are stealing our jobs and i wonder if a lot of my customers (being of the older generation ) feel the same ! Also we cleaned that very customer with the polish man and i could sense the bitterness ,So deciding to hold out for a Brit ,having said that the English guy i was supposed to take out today didn't answer his phone !
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definatly dont call that british guy again
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im finding this whole thread pretty uncomfortable. Its basically is coming down to debating which nationality are better to employ, which is essentially a redundant debate.
Employ the individual, not the passport. You should never need to discuss the nationality of your employee. And with regards to you customer who hates polish people, I would dump him, rather than not employ a Polish person because your customer doesnt like them.
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I am starting to agree with all this now, I took the Polish out for a trial run yesterday from 8:30 -4:30 and did what i would normally manage to do in a day with him,
First off,he was on time,presentable,and did what i said and he got the gist of it straightaway , he did seem very abrupt with me and seeemed a little like he was better than me ,but im sure that wouldn't matter as long as he did the work. What did worry me was the questions he was asking ie How much does the equipment cost ,how to make the water etc.. Ive decided to not employ this person as he later told me he had his own house in Poland which had been paid for by his late father , so i dont personally think he is worthy of the job as he doesn't seem like he needs it so much and also one rich customer of mine has specifically told me he HATES the way they are stealing our jobs and i wonder if a lot of my customers (being of the older generation ) feel the same ! Also we cleaned that very customer with the polish man and i could sense the bitterness ,So deciding to hold out for a Brit ,having said that the English guy i was supposed to take out today didn't answer his phone !
interesting point....
I am not polish, but still an eastern European and have my own round, have not felt any bitterness while working last 2 years. in fact most of my customers do recommend me and my best work come through recommendations.
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I haven't read all of this thread as it got tedious, I do get concerned sometimes these days when if you try to provide for your family and attempt to protect the future interests of your children you're percieved to be a racist.
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Been doing the rounds on facebook that if you are of a specific faith you can be excempt from the bedroom tax if your bedroom is used as a prayer room (whatever that is?) Like I said the path this country is taking worries me and I don't know what kind of a society my son will be living in we are gradually becoming a country who are racist against their own people.
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The term "racist" is used far too freely in my opinion.
Im certain that some people do not have the first clue of what the true definition of a racist is, but they are all too quick to accuse someone of being racist without proper reason.
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Keep it British - is that racist. You gotta be kidding. That's what's wrong with this country not enough who stand up for our own. We need to look after our own before we all lose our jobs or start working for a pitence.
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The term "racist" is used far too freely in my opinion.
Im certain that some people do not have the first clue of what the true definition of a racist is, but they are all too quick to accuse someone of being racist without proper reason.
Absoloutly Andy Hitler was a racist, I think it's the politically correct indigineous types who pedal this drivel, maybe their racist and take the view that they need to speak up for some because they think they aren't capable.
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The term "racist" is used far too freely in my opinion.
Im certain that some people do not have the first clue of what the true definition of a racist is, but they are all too quick to accuse someone of being racist without proper reason.
Absoloutly Andy Hitler was a racist, I think it's the politically correct indigineous types who pedal this drivel, maybe their racist and take the view that they need to speak up for some because they think they aren't capable.
No, Hitler was an evil, murdering bustard. I think that's a bit more important than calling him a racist.
And he only had one ball.
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wait untill youve had your round canvased prices less than halved then see if your racised head comes, on you will sing a different tune thing is people want to be politicly correct when it suits them double standards me thinks
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Keep it British - is that racist. You gotta be kidding. That's what's wrong with this country not enough who stand up for our own. We need to look after our own before we all lose our jobs or start working for a pitence.
Good post.
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Today's employee is tomorrow's competitor.
Do we really want to open the door of our industry to an army of eastern european workers who will happy to earn half what we earn? It won't take them long to realise they dont need to be employed, and can easily go-it alone, charge less and still be better off. Imagine how quickly word will spread in their community.
And all because they learned how easy it was to earn good money by being employed by someone for a year.
Very dangerous road to go down if you ask me, not just for you but for us all.
(and btw, nobody could blame eastern europeans for this, if I was polish I would do exactly the same.)
I am starting to agree with all this now, I took the Polish out for a trial run yesterday from 8:30 -4:30 and did what i would normally manage to do in a day with him,
First off,he was on time,presentable,and did what i said and he got the gist of it straightaway , he did seem very abrupt with me and seeemed a little like he was better than me ,but im sure that wouldn't matter as long as he did the work. What did worry me was the questions he was asking ie How much does the equipment cost ,how to make the water etc.. Ive decided to not employ this person as he later told me he had his own house in Poland which had been paid for by his late father , so i dont personally think he is worthy of the job as he doesn't seem like he needs it so much and also one rich customer of mine has specifically told me he HATES the way they are stealing our jobs and i wonder if a lot of my customers (being of the older generation ) feel the same ! Also we cleaned that very customer with the polish man and i could sense the bitterness ,So deciding to hold out for a Brit ,having said that the English guy i was supposed to take out today didn't answer his phone !
He was picking your brains, he probably wants to start his own round and import his own workers as they are easier to control, if i was Polish i would do the same.
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LOL
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The term "racist" is used far too freely in my opinion.
Im certain that some people do not have the first clue of what the true definition of a racist is, but they are all too quick to accuse someone of being racist without proper reason.
Absoloutly Andy Hitler was a racist, I think it's the politically correct indigineous types who pedal this drivel, maybe their racist and take the view that they need to speak up for some because they think they aren't capable.
Who's Andy Hitler? Has he got a mate called Dave Amin or Jack Gaddaffi?
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Been doing the rounds on facebook that if you are of a specific faith you can be excempt from the bedroom tax if your bedroom is used as a prayer room (whatever that is?) Like I said the path this country is taking worries me and I don't know what kind of a society my son will be living in we are gradually becoming a country who are racist against their own people.
That well known, trusted source of reliable information - the Facebook newsfeed, eh? Let's not bother checking facts for ourselves, let's just climb aboard the angry bus! (Sorry, Tosh).
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wait untill youve had your round canvased prices less than halved then see if your racised head comes, on you will sing a different tune thing is people want to be politicly correct when it suits them double standards me thinks
Agreed , I have so many window cleaner friends in my town and we never undercut each other ,its a different story when they come from overseas
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doubt he will startup after just 1 days tuition,but you never know. that foreign lad I employed who crashed my van I later found out was also stealing takings.He thought I was dozy bit like your Polish lad
Straight after he left me he set up on his own,cocky he was bought same colour van and called his business almost the same name as me and canvassed customers of mine - a year down the road he no longer has a website and iv never actually seen him cleaning anywhere
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Had one, great worker. Bought a van behind my back to set up. Got rid of for that and lots of other reasons like dangerous driving. Cost me a few grand in the end. Lost a few good customers to him. Will never employ one again.
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Been doing the rounds on facebook that if you are of a specific faith you can be excempt from the bedroom tax if your bedroom is used as a prayer room (whatever that is?)
Enrique, have you been zip-sniffing again? Stop it, it's killing your brain cells.
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Had one, great worker. Bought a van behind my back to set up. Got rid of for that and lots of other reasons like dangerous driving. Cost me a few grand in the end. Lost a few good customers to him. Will never employ one again.
I once was in charge of a Welsh lance corporal. He was the laziest, scruffiest, dullest urchin I've ever had the misfortune to serve with in my life.
I would never employ a Welshman based on this one Taff I was forced to supervise, 'cos obviously, based on a huge sample of one, I can make a massive sweeping generalisation about the whole.
Well, I could if I wasn't very bright.
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im finding this whole thread pretty uncomfortable. Its basically is coming down to debating which nationality are better to employ, which is essentially a redundant debate.
Employ the individual, not the passport. You should never need to discuss the nationality of your employee. And with regards to you customer who hates polish people, I would dump him, rather than not employ a Polish person because your customer doesnt like them.
totally agree
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Been doing the rounds on facebook that if you are of a specific faith you can be excempt from the bedroom tax if your bedroom is used as a prayer room (whatever that is?) Like I said the path this country is taking worries me and I don't know what kind of a society my son will be living in we are gradually becoming a country who are racist against their own people.
Its not the path this country is going down that is worrying, it is the fact you believe what is 'doing the rounds on Facebook' is actually the reality of the situation.
Im sure your son will grow up to be a balanced, mature level headed individual, despite the fact that the odds are stacked against him, if you get my drift ;)
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Only met 1 polish guy does some work for one of my custys who are renovating their house seems like nice guy and very hard worker they also employ his wife who has her own cleaning business .
They have come to this country to make a much better life for themselves by working hard you should judge each person individually .
I would not employ some of the people i grew up with and have known all my life as they are lazy benefit cheating scum . Who i got sick of the sight of them while i worked hard they sat on their arses watching telly all day .
So we moved so never had to see them again ;D ;D . Mike
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They have come to this country to make a much better life for themselves by working hard you should judge each person individually .
That's true, and they are often hard workers. Also you can't blame them for doing what's best for them, we can blame the government for making those policies.
The danger is, once they (and others in their community) see how easy it is to be a self-employed window cleaner they'll simply start up on their own charging half the going rate. Could you compete with that? Most couldn't. But they will be happy with it, becuase it's more money than they could ever earn working for someone.
If word gets around in their communities (as it obviously has for car-washing etc), there could easily be a huge tide of hard-working, polish window cleaners who do a good job at half the going rate.
And all because someone employed them for a year.
As I said, very dangerous road to go down, for ALL of us.
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The danger is, once they (and others in their community) see how easy it is to be a self-employed window cleaner
You sure about that?
My experience is that it takes years to build up a half-decent round. If these guys are only in the UK for the short to medium term, will they wish to invest the time it takes?
We had all these discussions when it was the Kosovans, but nowt happened.
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My experience is that it takes years to build up a half-decent round. If these guys are only in the UK for the short to medium term, will they wish to invest the time it takes?
Maybe years to build a good round, but just a few weeks to build an "ok" round that still pays more £15 per hour. What other job in the UK are they going to get such a good hourly rate for what is essentially an easy job and being self-employed too.
Its an absolute no-brainer, if I were polish I'd be doing it in a heartbeat, and it's already starting to happen in some parts of London. A mate of mine works down there and he said it's getting so you can't move for eastern-european window cleaners, who he said are mostly hard-working but massively undercut and are happy with that money.
Seriously, this is going to be a major problem over the next few years IMO. I think we'll look back to the good old days when we were able to charge a decent amount.
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It isn't going to be that easy for a Polish person to set up on their own. There was one round here that I knew. He gave up as it was too difficult to find work. There are other foreign looking names that are licensed with the council but I really believe that it isn't the issue it is being made out to be.
We have employed 3 Polish people, 1 of whom was here for 2 years. He was pretty good, a fully qualified mechanic, and extremely hard worker. He left to get a job in a garage.
Some of our customers don't like getting their windows cleaned by a lad from the next village, let alone someone from Eastern Europe.
Also why on earth do you think that someone from Poland would charge less than you??? They are not stupid, they actually think the way business is done in this country is stupid. Like the rest of the continent they are natural negotiators. They like to go in high with their prices and be negotiated down.
there could easily be a huge tide of hard-working, polish window cleaners who do a good job at half the going rate.
If you think it is possible for anyone to charge half what you do, and still make enough to live in this country, you are charging too much. I charge enough to cover costs with some profit. Just the same as a Polish person would, otherwise they wouldn't last very long would they?
Maybe years to build a good round, but just a few weeks to build an "ok" round that still pays more £15 per hour. What other job in the UK are they going to get such a good hourly rate for what is essentially an easy job and being self-employed too.
If they are making more than £15 per hour (£600 per week, £31,200 per year) profit their pricing structure is just fine.
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The danger is, once they (and others in their community) see how easy it is to be a self-employed window cleaner they'll simply start up on their own charging half the going rate. Could you compete with that? Most couldn't. But they will be happy with it, becuase it's more money than they could ever earn working for someone.
Why on earth would they do that? Think it through.
What you're implying is that someone who could earn, say, £300 a week would voluntarily choose to earn £150 a week. Why would they do that?
Also, you're working under the common misconception that price is all that matters. Within reason, it doesn't. I've posted previously about a customer I picked up at £20 who sacked her old cleaner at £3.50 because he was useless.
Not everyone buys on price, or we'd all be driving Dacia Sanderos.
Vin
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to the mod who deleted my posting, i am not now or ever will be a racist, i am however a realist, the post was the truth and i can take you to the factory in question to prove my point, if you wish to visit please let me know, as for my coment i stand by it, and will speak my mind, unlike some people, who hide what they realy think, so i say, STAND UP FOR WHAT IS YOURS
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STAND UP FOR WHAT IS YOURS
What do you mean by that?
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Migration Watch UK, which campaigns for tougher controls on immigration, estimates 250,000 Romanians and Bulgarians will move to the UK in the first five years after access restrictions are lifted.
that mean from the 1st january 2014
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Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
I want to know what these posts were now. ::)roll
Too slow. :(
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Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
I want to know what these posts were now. ::)roll
Too slow. :(
ask tosh....
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The danger is, once they (and others in their community) see how easy it is to be a self-employed window cleaner they'll simply start up on their own charging half the going rate. Could you compete with that? Most couldn't. But they will be happy with it, becuase it's more money than they could ever earn working for someone.
I am an Eastern European and never thought of charging half the price for what I would normally charge !!!
I take over a lot of work from other window cleaners - that's true. and most of them are charged even higher then they used to be charge. a lot of time my service has been chosen, because I have right equipment and try to do a good job. Have good recommendations
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Migration Watch UK, which campaigns for tougher controls on immigration, estimates 250,000 Romanians and Bulgarians will move to the UK in the first five years after access restrictions are lifted.
that mean from the 1st january 2014
On what basis do they estimate that? Where is the raw data? Why are Migrationwatch, a pressure group with an anti-immigration agenda, routinely quoted in the press as some kind of independent group?
Vin
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Why on earth would they do that?
They ARE doing that.
In London certain areas have been canvassed by what my mate said were "eastern european boys who are ferocious undercutters"
Most customers have a good degree of loyalty, but when offered to pay £25 for a service they were paying £50 for, well loyalty only stretches so far.
His exact words to me were they live 10 to a house, so have hardly any living expenses, and they send the money back to the family in Poland.
Its not about whether or not they will do it, they ARE doing it, right now.
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Why on earth would they do that?
They ARE doing that.
In London certain areas have been canvassed by what my mate said were "eastern european boys who are ferocious undercutters"
Most customers have a good degree of loyalty, but when offered to pay £25 for a service they were paying £50 for, well loyalty only stretches so far.
His exact words to me were they live 10 to a house, so have hardly any living expenses, and they send the money back to the family in Poland.
Its not about whether or not they will do it, they ARE doing it, right now.
To run competitive business you have to always invest in equipment, motor, tools, marketing.
If they charge £25 for what use to be £50 and can meet all of the above, then it's just competition, no matter where you are from.
if they just few guys with a ladder and a bucket and managed to get that job by undercutting, they will not be able to survive long.
Do not listen to every one.
Few local window cleaner probably are saying same about me now.
On Monday had 3 new jobs in newly built estate, they all had arrangements with other window cleaners. all charged at £20-£23 and after I asked how much they used to be charged answer was £30-£35. Good on those window cleaners who charge this price and have a full round, but for 20-30min work I will be ok with £20 and I think thats a fair price.
and now they tell they friends "that eastern European is ruining the market..."
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Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
Mod Note: Please do not post silly overgeneralised racist comments on the forum.
I want to know what these posts were now. ::)roll
Too slow. :(
ask tosh....
I can't remember. We've got deletion logs somewhere, but I can't be bothered to find them. Some of the posts I delete are posted by people who if they were to get any stupider, their Mummies would have to water them twice a week.
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mine was just saying that generally they take take but don't give
, now before that gets struck off you tell me of a foreign window cleaner that has GIVEN away a job without an ulterior motive
that's reminded me ,I gave a decent job away on this forum to a Eastie that job was out my area by a bit and the decent thing would be to give summat/a gesture in return,a lead or praps a beer ,but oh no, that isn't their way in my experience
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On Monday had 3 new jobs in newly built estate, they all had arrangements with other window cleaners. all charged at £20-£23 and after I asked how much they used to be charged answer was £30-£35. Good on those window cleaners who charge this price and have a full round, but for 20-30min work I will be ok with £20 and I think thats a fair price.
and now they tell they friends "that eastern European is ruining the market..."
So you came along and undercutted them.
You might think that's fair, but I would say that is you ruining the market, and devalueing the whole trade.
Haven't you done exactly what my mate in London said? He said that the eastern european lads are happy with less money.
And to those who think this is all fine and dandy, learn to live with half your income and see if you're still so open minded about the free movement of people in europe.
No offense, but this is the reason I'll probably be voting UKIP next time.
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all charged at £20-£23 and after I asked how much they used to be charged answer was £30-£35. Good on those window cleaners who charge this price and have a full round, but for 20-30min work I will be ok with £20 and I think thats a fair price.
???
You are just proving his point. Those people are willing to pay £30 why not charge £30.
Because £30 is more than £20.
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???
You are just proving his point. Those people are willing to pay £30 why not charge £30.
Because £30 is more than £20.
I did not undercut them as if I knew the price first and offered to clean them for less , I was working on the estate and gave my price to those people without knowing what they have been offered before.
They did not have they windows cleaned before, they only had window cleaner arranged as it was a new build houses and they have just moved in.
Company was hiring me to do a first clean for all newly build houses, as nice gesture for new owners.
I have made first cleans and then left my offer if they wanted to have they windows cleaned regular.
I clean 10-12 houses in the estate average price £20, average cleaning time 20-30 min per house and you are saying that I "eastern European" ruining the market of window cleaning by charging "very cheep" prices.
While average earning in the estate £40-£60/h
If that's what you think then I give no damn to that. Someone can charge £150 to clean house and they are willing to pay,
if that can be done for £30, and that brings earnings of £40-£60/h then perhaps you need to be more business minded and less window cleaner minded
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I do understand your point if some one was cleaning windows for £6-£10/h and was undercutting everyone in their way, that would be ruining the market.
but that wont happen as they would not last long, or they would be limited to they small round as business needs profit to grow.
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none of us have any choice where we are born. its is complete fluke whether you are english or polish or spanish or whatever. The Uk relies on immigration. Very very few of you could trace your lineage back and see you based in the UK the entire time.
All i am sensing is an incredible amount of unwarranted fear, generally used to sell certain newspapers.
Polish immigrants arent a new thing, they have been coming to the country for years. Yet the average price for window cleaning keeps rising.
It seems this debate is still coming down to a group of people who seem to think you can judge a person based on their nationality (xenophobia, not racism) which is utterly stupid. Its no different from saying all staffordshire bull terriers are nasty dogs that bite children. Theyre not, it depends on how they are raised. Judge each individual on what they are- an individual. Theres plenty of awful people that have a British passport but it doesnt make me a bad person does it?
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right now its on to Staffys ,of which I own one. a lovely dog but the truth is they ARE very dangerous, once my old girl dies id never get another and anybody who says they own a "soft as lights" staffy is kidding themselves
its like saying you own a 12 guage shotgun with a hair trigger
whats the gods honest truth is that the sort of blokes who look for work as window cleaners on the payroll often are desperados ,nowt wrong with that, im proud to be a bit desperate , but when you combine that with immigration you get an unpredictable breed of personality .
let me also remind im not the slightest bit racist, buy Lithuanian beer often AND East euro food takeaways ,follow basketball over there and my bro is half french by marriage ,no end of other foreign stuff that Im sure will also come to me but not at this minute .
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I did not undercut them as if I knew the price first and offered to clean them for less
But you still charged MUCH less than the going rate locally, and this is the problem. You were happy with that amount and as you said you "give no damn" what the effect on other window cleaners is.
If that's what you think then I give no damn to that. Someone can charge £150 to clean house and they are willing to pay, if that can be done for £30, and that brings earnings of £40-£60/h then perhaps you need to be more business minded and less window cleaner minded
So what you are saying is that the way for us to compete with cheaper workers from eastern europe is to lower our prices. Well this is exactly the problem as I was describing it, and you have quite clearly confirmed that is what is happening even with you. When I said about ferocious undercutters, some on here said "they won't do that!" Well, hate to say I told you so but there it is from the horses mouth.
An influx of cheap labour causes prices to fall and the whole window cleaning industry suffers. It doesn't take a genius to see that this is an obvious result.
And before anyone accuses me of racism, you honestly couldn't be more wrong. I don't for a second blame you, or anyone else from eastern europe for coming to this country and entirely legally earning a living and improving the lives of you and your family. If I were in your shoes I'm sure I'd be doing the same in a heartbeat.
The blame is with our idiot government that has exposed our labour market to this problem.
It seems this debate is still coming down to a group of people who seem to think you can judge a person based on their nationality
Not right at all, and in my view its utterly irresponsible to try to silence legitimate concerns about immigration with accusations of xenophobia, that's what the labour government did for over a decade and only now have finally admitted they didn't do enough about immigration.
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So what you are saying is that the way for us to compete with cheaper workers from eastern europe is to lower our prices.
My average prices are higher then most of local window cleaners in the area !
I think you are misunderstanding what I have tried to say.
conception of eastern European might be wrong just because you listen to a friend's friend who lost a job to an eastern European.
I have lost £13 jobs, because someone have undercut me, and that was a local English window cleaner.
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right now its on to Staffys ,of which I own one. a lovely dog but the truth is they ARE very dangerous, once my old girl dies id never get another and anybody who says they own a "soft as lights" staffy is kidding themselves
its like saying you own a 12 guage shotgun with a hair trigger
whats the gods honest truth is that the sort of blokes who look for work as window cleaners on the payroll often are desperados ,nowt wrong with that, im proud to be a bit desperate , but when you combine that with immigration you get an unpredictable breed of personality .
let me also remind im not the slightest bit racist, buy Lithuanian beer often AND East euro food takeaways ,follow basketball over there and my bro is half french by marriage ,no end of other foreign stuff that Im sure will also come to me but not at this minute .
;)
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let me also remind im not the slightest bit racist, buy Lithuanian beer often AND East euro food takeaways ,follow basketball over there and my bro is half french by marriage ,no end of other foreign stuff that Im sure will also come to me but not at this minute .
C'mon Tosh, stop deleting these posts for racism, obviously can't be racist if you drink Lithuanian beer AND eat Eastern European takeaways.
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I used to work for a great company but took voluntary redundancy a few years back.
Just couldn't stand to work for them anymore.
Here is a quick history of why.
Factory announces that 40% of the work would be going to China.
One week later 150 temp. foreign nationals given full time contracts.
A week later 200 jobs to go.
200 guys all with between 15 and 30 years of service made redundant
using a points system that favoured new starts. ( All won compensation but company took the hit)
Overtime and shift allowances reduced.
Sick pay removed.
No pay rises.
Subsidized canteen closed and so on.
This is a company that's making huge profits so these measures where not about surviving.
Things like this are happening all over the place but we cant blame foreign nationals for it
nor can we blame people for being angry or concerned.
The politicians knew when they opened the borders that it would benefit their rich business friends.
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just a point of interest here we, in the lakes have people coming up from burnley & bolton & spots like that undercutting prices, they're english. there is 1 polish lad but he only comes from lancaster & he's not cheap i also know builders who are saying the same about lads from away undercutting
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let me also remind im not the slightest bit racist, buy Lithuanian beer often AND East euro food takeaways ,follow basketball over there and my bro is half french by marriage ,no end of other foreign stuff that Im sure will also come to me but not at this minute .
C'mon Tosh, stop deleting these posts for racism, obviously can't be racist if you drink Lithuanian beer AND eat Eastern European takeaways.
I know, I know!!! It would've been quite a funny post if it had been done in jest, but alas, the poster has the IQ of a brain damaged tree frog, which makes it quite sad really.
I'm not racist 'cos I used to drink Slimovitch (we used to call it 'sleep in a ditch' by the way). ;D
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It's down to supply and demand, really.
If anything, immigrants are at a disadvantage because many customers would prefer to use a British wc'er, because that's the way they are.
If you can't compete, get out of the game.
And don't blame me, blame Thatcher ;D.
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Viktor did not undercut anyone and sounds like he is doing very well, all the best to him.
I dont know of any foreign wc in my town, I did hear about some polish lads quoting one of my mates £15 jobs at least 5years ago. They quoted £40! Nothing to worry about there!
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Tosh ban him mate hes a right plumb
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It's down to supply and demand, really.
If anything, immigrants are at a disadvantage because many customers would prefer to use a British wc'er, because that's the way they are.
If you can't compete, get out of the game.
And they compensate for that disadvantage by undercutting ferociously. Perhaps not in Viktor's case but it's rife in parts of London, and that will spread.
My question is, why should we have to compete with cheap foreign labour? The fact the we live in, and are from england, with english mortgages and living expenses that are comparitively high means we simply can't compete with cheap foreign labour who are happy to work for less. So it is the english worker who is at a disadvantage because our living costs are higher. Sure, if we want to live 10 to house too then it might be a level playing field. Or perhaps move our entire family over to poland where the cost of living is so much less, and just send our earnings over perhaps?
Eastern european immigrants are happy to work for half the going rate because its still a relatively high amount of money to them. By saying "if you can't compete get out of the game" what you are really saying is that you are welcoming foreign workers who will be MUCH cheaper than you simply becuase they will be happy with less money. Its not a question of one or two people not being able to compete, NOBODY can compete with prices that are half the going rate.
I don't live extravagantly by any stretch, but I couldn't afford to simply half my income.
No matter how you look at it, cheap foreign labour will reduce prices overall, and that's something that in my view is a big problem. You might not think its a big problem at the moment because it may not have affected you yet, but in a year or two's time when you start to see Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian window cleaners springing up all over the place and undercutting left right and centre and still delighted with the money they are getting, you will soon change your mind about it.
And then the words "if you can't compete get out the game" will start to have a very harsh reality about them.
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lol we had this conversation 5 years ago on here. I think someone said, 'You wait til next year'
Still waiting.
It was the Poles at one time, then it was H&S, then it was the hose-pipe ban, then it was securing tank in the van, ladders, flat-roofs. Its cyclical, stick around we'll be talking the same load of old bollox on here again just it'll be different keyboards doing the typing.
Fret not, run a tight ship, be professional, look smart, shave, be polite, get a black van with white sign-writing ;D be trustworthy and honest. I thought most people wanted a reliable and LOCAL window-cleaner. Its up to you whether you are.
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none of us have any choice where we are born. its is complete fluke whether you are english or polish or spanish or whatever. The Uk relies on immigration. Very very few of you could trace your lineage back and see you based in the UK the entire time.
All i am sensing is an incredible amount of unwarranted fear, generally used to sell certain newspapers.
Polish immigrants arent a new thing, they have been coming to the country for years. Yet the average price for window cleaning keeps rising.
It seems this debate is still coming down to a group of people who seem to think you can judge a person based on their nationality (xenophobia, not racism) which is utterly stupid. Its no different from saying all staffordshire bull terriers are nasty dogs that bite children. Theyre not, it depends on how they are raised. Judge each individual on what they are- an individual. Theres plenty of awful people that have a British passport but it doesnt make me a bad person does it?
Now thats what i call a wise comment.
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It's down to supply and demand, really.
If anything, immigrants are at a disadvantage because many customers would prefer to use a British wc'er, because that's the way they are.
If you can't compete, get out of the game.
And they compensate for that disadvantage by undercutting ferociously. Perhaps not in Viktor's case but it's rife in parts of London, and that will spread.
My question is, why should we have to compete with cheap foreign labour? The fact the we live in, and are from england, with english mortgages and living expenses that are comparitively high means we simply can't compete with cheap foreign labour who are happy to work for less. So it is the english worker who is at a disadvantage because our living costs are higher. Sure, if we want to live 10 to house too then it might be a level playing field. Or perhaps move our entire family over to poland where the cost of living is so much less, and just send our earnings over perhaps?
Eastern european immigrants are happy to work for half the going rate because its still a relatively high amount of money to them. By saying "if you can't compete get out of the game" what you are really saying is that you are welcoming foreign workers who will be MUCH cheaper than you simply becuase they will be happy with less money. Its not a question of one or two people not being able to compete, NOBODY can compete with prices that are half the going rate.
I don't live extravagantly by any stretch, but I couldn't afford to simply half my income.
No matter how you look at it, cheap foreign labour will reduce prices overall, and that's something that in my view is a big problem. You might not think its a big problem at the moment because it may not have affected you yet, but in a year or two's time when you start to see Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian window cleaners springing up all over the place and undercutting left right and centre and still delighted with the money they are getting, you will soon change your mind about it.
And then the words "if you can't compete get out the game" will start to have a very harsh reality about them.
That's what I said, supply and demand.
We have cheap, foreign labour because they can do it. Just as British workers can do it. If you're saying we have an immigration problem, that's a different matter. But what do we do about it?
I'm only suggesting to deal with the system as it stands, which is easier than changing the system.
There is a supply of this labour but I don't think the demand for it is as great as some are saying.
You can't stop the supply of these workers but you can affect the demand for your services- read Matt Bateman's post, for a start.
You can moan and complain but that's not going to stop someone competing with you or you can fight back and make yourself competitive.
I've said it before: if you can't compete on price, beat them on quality and service.
You've got a huge advantage by not being one of them foreigners, for starters.
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lol we had this conversation 5 years ago on here. I think someone said, 'You wait til next year'
Still waiting.
It was the Poles at one time, then it was H&S, then it was the hose-pipe ban, then it was securing tank in the van, ladders, flat-roofs. Its cyclical, stick around we'll be talking the same load of old bollox on here again just it'll be different keyboards doing the typing.
Fret not, run a tight ship, be professional, look smart, shave, be polite, get a black van with white sign-writing ;D be trustworthy and honest. I thought most people wanted a reliable and LOCAL window-cleaner. Its up to you whether you are.
+1
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lol we had this conversation 5 years ago on here. I think someone said, 'You wait til next year'
Such as:
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=42866.0
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=20452.0
Comments identical, just dated six and seven years ago respectively.
Vin
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Chicken little.
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none of us have any choice where we are born. its is complete fluke whether you are english or polish or spanish or whatever. The Uk relies on immigration. Very very few of you could trace your lineage back and see you based in the UK the entire time.
All i am sensing is an incredible amount of unwarranted fear, generally used to sell certain newspapers.
Polish immigrants arent a new thing, they have been coming to the country for years. Yet the average price for window cleaning keeps rising.
It seems this debate is still coming down to a group of people who seem to think you can judge a person based on their nationality (xenophobia, not racism) which is utterly stupid. Its no different from saying all staffordshire bull terriers are nasty dogs that bite children. Theyre not, it depends on how they are raised. Judge each individual on what they are- an individual. Theres plenty of awful people that have a British passport but it doesnt make me a bad person does it?
I Couldn't Have Said It Better Myself!
well done mate
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where did all this start that its wrong to be racist? im going along happily with denying im racist so I don't get barred, but now im thinking I COULD POSSIBLY be a tinsey bit racist on the employing front .
the thing is we cant all be lovey dovey , a certain percentage have to hate sometimes or the mixture of forum personalities would be all wrong.
a newbie joining wouldn't know where to stand , might be forced to fake his persona
we cant all be lovers,some must be fighters,
" im a lover not a fighter" that's a line in a song anybody know it ?
edit "ebony and Ivoreey
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where did all this start that its wrong to be racist? im going along happily with denying im racist so I don't get barred, but now im thinking I COULD POSSIBLY be a tinsey bit racist on the employing front .
the thing is we cant all be lovey dovey , a certain percentage have to hate sometimes or the mixture of forum personalities would be all wrong.
a newbie joining wouldn't know where to stand , might be forced to fake his persona
we cant all be lovers,some must be fighters,
" im a lover not a fighter" that's a line in a song anybody know it ?
edit "ebony and Ivoreey
Hello Romeo Papa, send key setting over.
Look, can you please use English when you post on this forum? It's this countries national language and even Victor, a Lithuanian, has made the effort to use English to a decent standard in his posts, and it's not even his first language.
Thank you.
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lol we had this conversation 5 years ago on here. I think someone said, 'You wait til next year'
Still waiting.
It was the Poles at one time, then it was H&S, then it was the hose-pipe ban, then it was securing tank in the van, ladders, flat-roofs. Its cyclical, stick around we'll be talking the same load of old bollox on here again just it'll be different keyboards doing the typing.
Fret not, run a tight ship, be professional, look smart, shave, be polite, get a black van with white sign-writing ;D be trustworthy and honest. I thought most people wanted a reliable and LOCAL window-cleaner. Its up to you whether you are.
I agree with Matt here, which must be a first. If I ever agree with Vinty, don't mess about, just shoot me.
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Lets take our country back.
NO EU no problem with undercutting.
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Lets take our country back.
NO EU no problem with undercutting.
another racist comment! >:( >:( >:(
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Lets take our country back.
NO EU no problem with undercutting.
Well, I've taken a stand!
No East European takeaway or Lithuanian beer for me last night. Let's see how they like it.
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the truth is that anyone you employ from anywhere can steal money off you and try and undercut you,do a rubbish job,crash your van etc,etc!!
the fear that some of you talk about of hoards of polish window cleaners undercutting all your work so you end up signing on is absolute rubbish!!
if your well established and do a good job then there is no way a polish guy is gonna come along and undercut and steal your work!!customers just wont jump ship and esp if he is charging half your price!!
most customers have been given a poor service from window cleaners in the past so they stick when they find a good one.
i cant tell you the amount of times my work has been canvassed/leafletted over the years with guys trying to undercut etc and these are british guys!never lost a job to my knowledge so their not gonna switch to a polish guy!!
there are lots of risks/benefits/hassle when employing anybody.just trust your intuition.
best wishes to you all
dazmond
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the truth is that anyone you employ from anywhere can steal money off you and try and undercut you,do a rubbish job,crash your van etc,etc!!
the fear that some of you talk about of hoards of polish window cleaners undercutting all your work so you end up signing on is absolute rubbish!!
if your well established and do a good job then there is no way a polish guy is gonna come along and undercut and steal your work!!customers just wont jump ship and esp if he is charging half your price!!
most customers have been given a poor service from window cleaners in the past so they stick when they find a good one.
i cant tell you the amount of times my work has been canvassed/leafletted over the years with guys trying to undercut etc and these are british guys!never lost a job to my knowledge so their not gonna switch to a polish guy!!
there are lots of risks/benefits/hassle when employing anybody.just trust your intuition.
best wishes to you all
dazmond
totally agree Daz :)
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Correct, Daz; it'll be the French that do it ;D.
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the truth is that anyone you employ from anywhere can steal money off you and try and undercut you,do a rubbish job,crash your van etc,etc!!
the fear that some of you talk about of hoards of polish window cleaners undercutting all your work so you end up signing on is absolute rubbish!!
if your well established and do a good job then there is no way a polish guy is gonna come along and undercut and steal your work!!customers just wont jump ship and esp if he is charging half your price!!
most customers have been given a poor service from window cleaners in the past so they stick when they find a good one.
i cant tell you the amount of times my work has been canvassed/leafletted over the years with guys trying to undercut etc and these are british guys!never lost a job to my knowledge so their not gonna switch to a polish guy!!
there are lots of risks/benefits/hassle when employing anybody.just trust your intuition.
best wishes to you all
dazmond
Its ok for you, not even the poles could undercut your low prices dazmond!!!. ;D
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It's not your established work you lose to em .its the new builds . There half way putting up 30 nice detached houses bordering on my work .. There's 2 other Windys work the area as well .i would expect to get at least half of these houses as I call up as they move in and don't give up until I speak to the owner .how many have I got ? None.and one of the other Windys hasn't got any . Why? Cos the estate has been flyered to death . One guy showed me about 25 flyers and business cards. He thought it was hilarious , as he was trying to get it as cheap as he could ..anyway there's at least 2 groups of poles doing em for 3 and 4 quid an house.i will keep knocking this new estate ,but I don't expect to get owt .
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New builds are naff anyway, Barry. They tend to house occupants mortgaged to the hilt. In general I've rarely found new build customers good customers. There's the odd exception, but in general no.
Another thing with new builds too is that they're built on such a small footprint; parking and access are often problems too. Maybe not with all of them - they tend to build a range of houses from the large to the tiny on these new estates - but I tend to keep away from them.
Small villages are my favourite areas; not easy to get established, but when you are it tends to be a bit of a snowball effect when it comes to getting new customers. You get one-or-two, then after a few years you're upto four-or-five, and then it seems to pick up pace. More visibility and more customers to recommend you. Affluent people with small or no mortgages; they're the best; not new build customers.
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Yeh you are right about a lot of the new builds tosh . But I think you mean those proxy 3 story over priced shoe box town hoses . I've got a few of these, and they are all young couples mortgaged to the hilt . I have just put them all from 4 week to 8 week .cos I new a lot were struggling . But this other estate is exec style 4and 5 bed detached .aimed at the higher end . These are usually custys with plenty of spare cash .but I will keep trying . And hopefully the poles will do a crap job and I will pick some up . Not at 4 quid tho
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The EU has flooded this country with cheap labour, labour is like any other commodity when there is a surplus the price goes down when there is a shortage the price goes up.
At the end of the day all a window cleaner has to sell is his labour just like any other worker, so if only out of self interest all this migration should be stopped.
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New builds are naff anyway, Barry. They tend to house occupants mortgaged to the hilt. In general I've rarely found new build customers good customers. There's the odd exception, but in general no.
Another thing with new builds too is that they're built on such a small footprint; parking and access are often problems too. Maybe not with all of them - they tend to build a range of houses from the large to the tiny on these new estates - but I tend to keep away from them.
Small villages are my favourite areas; not easy to get established, but when you are it tends to be a bit of a snowball effect when it comes to getting new customers. You get one-or-two, then after a few years you're upto four-or-five, and then it seems to pick up pace. More visibility and more customers to recommend you. Affluent people with small or no mortgages; they're the best; not new build customers.
What about the North of England were every one is poor, affluent customers would be hard to find.
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New builds are naff anyway, Barry. They tend to house occupants mortgaged to the hilt. In general I've rarely found new build customers good customers. There's the odd exception, but in general no.
Another thing with new builds too is that they're built on such a small footprint; parking and access are often problems too. Maybe not with all of them - they tend to build a range of houses from the large to the tiny on these new estates - but I tend to keep away from them.
Small villages are my favourite areas; not easy to get established, but when you are it tends to be a bit of a snowball effect when it comes to getting new customers. You get one-or-two, then after a few years you're upto four-or-five, and then it seems to pick up pace. More visibility and more customers to recommend you. Affluent people with small or no mortgages; they're the best; not new build customers.
What about the North of England were every one is poor, affluent customers would be hard to find.
"Where everyone is poor", I've never laughed so much.