Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: richywilts on April 05, 2013, 09:50:36 pm
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had two sets now written off coz staff have drove into the unit with shutter not fully pulled up these cost me 120quid should i bill them n dock wages due to carelessness
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The joys of employing
Personally i think you should warn them if it happens again you will bill them
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Bit of a stupid question if you ask me ;D
You cant charge an employee for busting a tool ffs its all part and parcel of employing .
Besides it comes off the tax bill anyway lol .
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Bit of a stupid question if you ask me ;D
You cant charge an employee for busting a tool ffs its all part and parcel of employing .
Besides it comes off the tax bill anyway lol .
me personally wouldnt dock wages thats why im asking but when it carelessness and theres two in the van and one could have guided the other in to the unit instead of driving into the roller shutter and snapping it im in two minds so just seeing what others think
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+1 Mr Ainger.
Last warning, you can't really charge them though. Probably have to go down the warnings route, probably the same kind of thing as snapping a pole at work...
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Bit of a stupid question if you ask me ;D
You cant charge an employee for busting a tool ffs its all part and parcel of employing .
Besides it comes off the tax bill anyway lol .
me personally wouldnt dock wages thats why im asking but when it carelessness and theres two in the van and one could have guided the other in to the unit instead of driving into the roller shutter and snapping it im in two minds so just seeing what others think
Make it company policy that if there are 2 in the van, one must guide the other in. If they break clamps again, they either didn't guide each other in or the one watching wasn't watching enough. Either way, you have a stronger case for discipline then I reckon.
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Id just say to them to make sure the roller shutter is right up when driving in .
Surely your employees aren't that ignorant .
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Replace the clamps with a length of rope and let them use it in future.
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I'd be charging em
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You can't charge them.
I know what Id do if you tried to charge me, it would cost an employer a lot more if they were to try that fast one on.
D'you think the Army charge soldiers for a new tank when the one they're in gets written off ? Richy come on, its a pitiful state surely if a company has to try to resort to that.
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had two sets now written off coz staff have drove into the unit with shutter not fully pulled up these cost me 120quid should i bill them n dock wages due to carelessness
Training failure, at a guess.
It's your responsibility to train them specifically in how to avoid this. Up to that point it's your fault. Once you have done that, it is their responsibility to follow the procedure you have laid down. After that, it's their fault.
Vin
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2 in the van n they just drove in not
Even checking
Think I wud flip a case of employer brutality
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sack em!
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don't know how to multi quote
but
Training failure, at a guess.
It's your responsibility to train them specifically in how to avoid this. Up to that point it's your fault. Once you have done that, it is their responsibility to follow the procedure you have laid down. After that, it's their fault.
Vin
do this and you can charge them for the clamps, oh and put it in writing
and matt
You can't charge them.
I know what Id do if you tried to charge me, it would cost an employer a lot more if they were to try that fast one on.
D'you think the Army charge soldiers for a new tank when the one they're in gets written off ? Richy come on, its a pitiful state surely if a company has to try to resort to that.
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the Army can and will if it is down to neglect, i.e not doing what Vin suggested
I was sent a bill for ten damaged sights for rifles that had scratched lenses, the training clearly states the metal round the edge of the lenses should not be cleaned using abrasive materials, It asked for the names of the weapon users so they could be billed, I was a bit disgusted at this point and took the bill and letter to my sgt major, he said go get me the names of ten soldiers that have left the services in the last 6 months ;D wise man ;D
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wise man
Obviously, he was well aware of the consequences his employers actions could have had, especially as it was a 'mistake' and not 'neglect' ;D
People make mistakes, when you pay peanuts, you get monkeys, dont be surprised. If you think you can deduct from their wages the cost of these materials you should also reward them in a like for like fashion when they excel. I somehow cant see that happening though ;)
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I knew who'd posted this subject before I'd even looked ;D ;D
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Warning on this occasion, then Mon I'd get revised employment contracts written up with breakages to be paid for clause. If they dont sign it - P45. Job done
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Warning on this occasion, then Mon I'd get revised employment contracts written up with breakages to be paid for clause. If they dont sign it - P45. Job done
good idea think il do that
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Thinking about it, I'd give them a bonus, they're sh!t clamps, don't hold the ladders in place securely enough anyway. Consider it a close shave Richy, they could lose the ladders going down the motorway with those things.
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Warning on this occasion, then Mon I'd get revised employment contracts written up with breakages to be paid for clause. If they dont sign it - P45. Job done
good idea think il do that
really? if you want to go down the route of billing for damages, make sure they have been trained, and make sure it is recorded, and you can not bill them for the brand new amount, as soon as you buy something it depreciates in value.
ever thought on doing a man management course Richy? it could be invaluable
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Warning on this occasion, then Mon I'd get revised employment contracts written up with breakages to be paid for clause. If they dont sign it - P45. Job done
good idea think il do that
really? if you want to go down the route of billing for damages, make sure they have been trained, and make sure it is recorded, and you can not bill them for the brand new amount, as soon as you buy something it depreciates in value.
ever thought on doing a man management course Richy? it could be invaluable
to be honest i dont think i need it when it common sense to watch the roof of ya van when driving in and ensure the shutter fully pulled up!! ya can train and train and train people sumtime but if theyre not paying attention mistakes still happen
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Warning on this occasion, then Mon I'd get revised employment contracts written up with breakages to be paid for clause. If they dont sign it - P45. Job done
good idea think il do that
really? if you want to go down the route of billing for damages, make sure they have been trained, and make sure it is recorded, and you can not bill them for the brand new amount, as soon as you buy something it depreciates in value.
ever thought on doing a man management course Richy? it could be invaluable
Like for like otherwise full replacement. Done this for the past 5 years with a cleaning company I am partner of. Condition of employment.
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Warning on this occasion, then Mon I'd get revised employment contracts written up with breakages to be paid for clause. If they dont sign it - P45. Job done
good idea think il do that
really? if you want to go down the route of billing for damages, make sure they have been trained, and make sure it is recorded, and you can not bill them for the brand new amount, as soon as you buy something it depreciates in value.
ever thought on doing a man management course Richy? it could be invaluable
to be honest i dont think i need it when it common sense to watch the roof of ya van when driving in and ensure the shutter fully pulled up!! ya can train and train and train people sumtime but if theyre not paying attention mistakes still happen
exactly, we all make mistakes, can't your employees also make mistakes? you make plenty business wise so why do they have to be perfect? it is all a learning curve for you and them
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It would also set a precedent IMO, start charging them, they'll start implementing every employment law under the sun. IMO not only can you not charge them but you would also, any employer I mean, be an idiot to do so, only asking for trouble.
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It would also set a precedent IMO, start charging them, they'll start implementing every employment law under the sun. IMO not only can you not charge them but you would also, any employer I mean, be an idiot to do so, only asking for trouble.
What so your staff sub consciously dictate their own contract? At the end of the day if you treat them fair but explain that we cannot cover these losses that are down to due care and attention, they will take more responsibility. Also if you run a tight ship and understand employment rights, there cannot be any repercussions.
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Show the staff how you expect them to go in and out the place and get them to do the same.
Hand out a work sheet explaining it all in detail. Get them to sign that they've understood the training and agree to follow the procedure laid down and that they will be disciplined for failing to follow what they've been shown and that it could lead to dismissal according to the rules for such things.
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They would be both working a Saturday for free
And a bollocking
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I use tie down straps,far quicker than any clamp
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For the future-mark on the pillar of the roller shutter door the minimum height it needs to be to clear the van unloaded (and add a few inches)
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had two sets now written off coz staff have drove into the unit with shutter not fully pulled up these cost me 120quid should i bill them n dock wages due to carelessness
Dont be a plank.
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Punish them - buy them a Brodex pole each.
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What so your staff sub consciously dictate their own contract? At the end of the day if you treat them fair but explain that we cannot cover these losses that are down to due care and attention, they will take more responsibility. Also if you run a tight ship and understand employment rights, there cannot be any repercussions.
Nothing to do with contracts.
They will simply insist on having those perfectly permissible extra few minutes theyre entitled to at lunch, but that you would personally prefer them to work to be sure the job gets done, on time, before the rain comes, avoiding the traffic-jam that always puts that extra half hour of overtime on their time-sheet. It's that extra motivation that means they dont have to go back the next day to finish the job or that extra element of the job that turns it from a cover-the-costs-job to a nice-little-earner.
Its obvious. Treat them how you'd like to be treated they'll repay you. Social skills. p them off they'll p you off. Thats what happens.
You've entrusted them with the kit, if theyre not up to it why are you allowing them that privilege?
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Punish them - buy them a Brodex pole each.
;D
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Punish them - buy them a Brodex pole each.
Like +1
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They would be both working a Saturday for free
And a bollocking
I imagine you would be told exactly where to go with that rubbish.
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I charge for any damage to the van nowadays, i didnt used to, and had loads of bumps and scrapes. Since I told them any more would come out of their wages there've been none!
If its wear and tear then I wouldnt charge. if its due to lack of care then i charge them.
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wats most u have charged them
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Richard,
same as me, if lads are shown how I expect them to look after and use the equipment that I buy for them to use, which is always expensive, if they damage things with lack of care, then they pay for it and they also get a telling off.
If they carry on which they haven't done as yet, then they can find another job and let them put up with there neandrathol ways.
At that point im not interested in employment law and all what comes with it, they wont be working for me again.
Funny thing is, lads who have worked for me in the past always want to come back working for me within 6-12 months, because I am fair with them and want them to use the best equipment, and they then realise I wont put up with it.
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I would and have charged, they sign to say they are responsible and something broken in neglect will be replaced.
One lad hit a wall while reversing I ain't paying for it simple another lad has damaged 5 taps in 8 weeks cause he drags them drops them and doesn't care.
Staff will abuse your equipment if they can cause they don't care, now if you make them responsible and the relies the outcome of neglect they should soon try too think before they abuse
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wats most u have charged them
I honestly haven't had any breakages since I told them they were paying for it.
I would charge them what it costs. if its a large amount i would let them pay it off over a set time to help them out.
the only way they will respect equipemtn is if they know they have to pay for it.
same with their uniforms...
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this was my point in the original post
accidents happens when using a pole at height an angle adaptor may snap
i can live with that and buy replacements
but when stong heavy duty ladder clamps built to not be smashed off to keep ladders safe are snapped in two thats neglect and carelessness which i think staff should pay for
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I suppose on the bright side if you ask them to carry out a task and they snap a nail or stub a toe they could turn the tables and sue you for the roof over your head.
What I gather from some of the guys that employee on here is you only want your staff to be able to clean without complaint from the customers, they want them to be honest with the companies money and the customers belongings, without skiving, on time, with no smoke breaks, without nicking the companies work; then pay them peanuts AND they expect them to be able to think.
;D ;D
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D'you think the Army charge soldiers for a new tank when the one they're in gets written off ?
You get disciplined if you damage equipment; it's put on a NMD Form (Negligence, Misuse, and Damage Report), and you would lose out financially. You go in front of your boss, no coffee, get quizzed, and if found guilty, you would lose money direct from your pay.
Normally if you crash a vehicle and it's found that you're at fault, you'd be charged the equivalent of an increase in insurance premium.
I've lost a fair whack of money over the years for urinated mattresses, crashed vehicles, lost army identity cards, and knacking a bayonet (I used it as a chisel and then it wouldn't fit on the end of the rifle). If you lose equipment you get billed for it too. If it's over a certain amount you get charged, disciplined, and also billed for it.
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I suppose on the bright side if you ask them to carry out a task and they snap a nail or stub a toe they could turn the tables and sue you for the roof over your head.
What I gather from some of the guys that employee on here is you only want your staff to be able to clean without complaint from the customers, they want them to be honest with the companies money and the customers belongings, without skiving, on time, with no smoke breaks, without nicking the companies work; then pay them peanuts AND they expect them to be able to think.
;D ;D
what's unreasonable there?
i don't pay peanuts tho. just give them a min wage basic with bonus' for doing their job properly
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what's unreasonable there?
I just think half the guys on here who employ pay dreadful money but expect more than they pay for. If I paid someone what guys on here tend to offer up as their rate I'd expect an idiot and I would think I'd got what I asked for. It wouldnt surprise me in the least if I were to pay £7.00-£8.00 an hour and they damaged the company equipment. You wont have paid them an appropriate wage to think or figure things out.
It is against employment law to pay minimum wage and then make further deductions resulting in the wage rate being below the national minimum wage
https://www.gov.uk/understanding-your-pay/deductions-from-your-pay
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what's unreasonable there?
I just think half the guys on here who employ pay dreadful money but expect more than they pay for. If I paid someone what guys on here tend to offer up as their rate I'd expect an idiot and I would think I'd got what I asked for. It wouldnt surprise me in the least if I were to pay £7.00-£8.00 an hour and they damaged the company equipment. You wont have paid them an appropriate wage to think or figure things out.
It is against employment law to pay minimum wage and then make further deductions resulting in the wage rate being below the national minimum wage
https://www.gov.uk/understanding-your-pay/deductions-from-your-pay
you cant pay great wages matt its a semi skilled job, when you employ you have to consider holiday pay etc for small firms when losing a man or two for a week holiday its hard to earn there wage with out them being there cleaning
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you need to factor that into your pricing Richy.
I pay £10.00 an hour to Darren which includes any time if we stop for lunch. Darren earns me approximately £100 a day after costs. I allow for ALL costs in my pricing. If he breaks something accidentally I pay for it; I take ALL the profits thus I accept I have to bear ANY costs. I employ him, we don't have a working partnership. If he breaks something wilfully we'll have a chat. If it happens again he's down the road.
I treat people as I would wish to be treated. That involves remuneration.
Im happy with the rewards I get from employing him. I think £100 per man per day is good profit. Correct me if Im wrong.
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you need to factor that into your pricing Richy.
I pay £10.00 an hour to Darren which includes any time if we stop for lunch. Darren earns me approximately £100 a day after costs. I allow for ALL costs in my pricing. If he breaks something accidentally I pay for it; I take ALL the profits thus I accept I have to bear ANY costs. I employ him, we don't have a working partnership. If he breaks something wilfully we'll have a chat. If it happens again he's down the road.
I treat people as I would wish to be treated. That involves remuneration.
Im happy with the rewards I get from employing him. I think £100 per man per day is good profit. Correct me if Im wrong.
Sounds good to me. However, I couldn't work more than an hour or so a day with a mong like you though. ;D
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I have trouble with me too.
;D ;D
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Richy, have them do that great Groupon work you picked up, that should make them think twice before breaking stuff, 10 quid a gutter, you're covered then!! ;D
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I find that 10 bags of these a month keep all of my staff happy.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/13KG-BAG-PEANUTS-FOR-BIRDFOOD/dp/B001M4AHJW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
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Im happy with the rewards I get from employing him. I think £100 per man per day is good profit. Correct me if Im wrong.
You're wrong! That's not good profit no ???
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I think thats good profit actually.
What figure would you think a company should aim for as profit per man?
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I think thats good profit actually.
What figure would you think a company should aim for as profit per man?
£200 - £250 per day is what I aim for, depending on if theyre a one man or two man team
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;D ;D
No, I didn't ask what you aim for. I asked what profit you make per man per day; as you think £100 isnt a reaasonable figure.
Going by the figures you quote you'll be looking at making something like £50,000 per man annually, minimum; AS PROFIT.
Sole traders dont do that kind of money as a rule before costs let alone PROFIT.
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;D ;D
No, I didn't ask what you aim for. I asked what profit you make per man per day; as you think £100 isnt a reaasonable figure.
hi Matt
i was meaning profit we aim for £200 - £250 after costs per day
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So between two of them thats how much per man?
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richs men do about 300 a day on there own he prices very well and think they have little paperwork to do as all standing order
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So between two of them thats how much per man?
one on his own profit £250
two man team profit £400
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Per day?
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Per day?
yes. thats what we aim for on full days of reg cleans. get it 4 days a week (give or take)
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So your best days really, hey; lets be honest (full day, regular cleans) ;)
What about your crappy ones?
Because we did silly money profit the other day, but its not usual. I want to know what the average is. I dont think you're average figure is £400 profit per two man team, after all costs. Im not talking about turnover here.
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you need to factor that into your pricing Richy.
I pay £10.00 an hour to Darren which includes any time if we stop for lunch. Darren earns me approximately £100 a day after costs. I allow for ALL costs in my pricing. If he breaks something accidentally I pay for it; I take ALL the profits thus I accept I have to bear ANY costs. I employ him, we don't have a working partnership. If he breaks something wilfully we'll have a chat. If it happens again he's down the road.
I treat people as I would wish to be treated. That involves remuneration.
Im happy with the rewards I get from employing him. I think £100 per man per day is good profit. Correct me if Im wrong.
Hi Matt
So do you work together every day I take it?
£10 per hour, is it b4 tax and national insurance? or is it £10 after all that?
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b4.
Darren is self employed. He has a small round of his own. He hasn't got enough work for himself as he screwed things up a while ago and lost a lot of his work, but he cleans on a reasonably regular basis with me. As he's self employed he deals with his own tax.
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b4.
Darren is self employed. He has a small round of his own. He hasn't got enough work for himself as he screwed things up a while ago and lost a lot of his work, but he cleans on a reasonably regular basis with me. As he's self employed he deals with his own tax.
I see, thanks for the info, so after tax and national insurance, he take home around £7.00 per hour. :)
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You'll have to ask him, his tax is his tax ;)
But I guess so :-)
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So between two of them thats how much per man?
one on his own profit £250
two man team profit £400
How are you finding being VAT registered Richard?
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i dont understand why you cant just use the normal standard ladder clamps at around £20 a pop?far cheaper and their solid richy.had mine for about 3 years now!albeit i only take the ladders off a couple of times a week these days!! ;D ;D
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You'll have to ask him, his tax is his tax ;)
But I guess so :-)
Yeh I thought so ;)
£7.00 per hour is the going rate :)
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i dont understand why you cant just use the normal standard ladder clamps at around £20 a pop?far cheaper and their solid richy.had mine for about 3 years now!albeit i only take the ladders off a couple of times a week these days!! ;D ;D
i seen them and thought id give them a go u can lock them and also you dont have to spin them round 300 times to move the ladder it just slides up the other one rust up had a few problems with the usual ones bought some and im sure the spinning thing was too small for the threaded hook
just idea of them being more secure if lads took the vans home as none live in the most desirable places
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b4.
Darren is self employed. He has a small round of his own. He hasn't got enough work for himself as he screwed things up a while ago and lost a lot of his work, but he cleans on a reasonably regular basis with me. As he's self employed he deals with his own tax.
your going on about all us not paying great wages etc but our staff get a lot more benefits than yours 28 days holiday etc £10 per hour aint that great really being self employed does he provide his own van etc
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I would and have charged, they sign to say they are responsible and something broken in neglect will be replaced.
One lad hit a wall while reversing I ain't paying for it simple another lad has damaged 5 taps in 8 weeks cause he drags them drops them and doesn't care.
Staff will abuse your equipment if they can cause they don't care, now if you make them responsible and the relies the outcome of neglect they should soon try too think before they abuse
Hi ronnie. Hope you are well mate! Did you know your website for gutter cleaning Stockport is wrong at the link won't work? ;)
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does he provide his own van etc
No.
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So between two of them thats how much per man?
one on his own profit £250
two man team profit £400
Dude, if you are cutting those figures, which i do not doubt, I have 2 questions.
1. How the hell do you you do that? (I would like to know cos I am obviously doing something wrong! :))
2. What the hell are you doing writing that on here? You should be sipping a martini on your own Caribbean island having done a hard days surfing, with the sun going down, cafe del mar by energy 52 playing in the background, with your ever-loving wife beside you, feeding you peeled grapes and promising you whatever you want that night for....tea! ;D ;D ;D
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Replace the clamps with a length of rope and let them use it in future.
Give them enough rope and...........
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So your best days really, hey; lets be honest (full day, regular cleans) ;)
What about your crappy ones?
Because we did silly money profit the other day, but its not usual. I want to know what the average is. I dont think you're average figure is £400 profit per two man team, after all costs. Im not talking about turnover here.
Hi Matt,
those figures are for our typical days. this is week in week out, rain, snow, wind, whatever. the only thing that prevents this are if the system stops working, which is very infrequent.
we are still building up our rounds and so not every day is like this. 80% of our days are, i would say.
days which are not hitting these figures are days when we are doing first cleans, conny roofs whatever. as these spare days fill up they will hit the figures that the other 80% do.
these are pretty good figures i know, but i also know that they are not unique and there are other people here hitting this type of thing.
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So between two of them thats how much per man?
one on his own profit £250
two man team profit £400
Dude, if you are cutting those figures, which i do not doubt, I have 2 questions.
1. How the hell do you you do that? (I would like to know cos I am obviously doing something wrong! :))
2. What the hell are you doing writing that on here? You should be sipping a martini on your own Caribbean island having done a hard days surfing, with the sun going down, cafe del mar by energy 52 playing in the background, with your ever-loving wife beside you, feeding you peeled grapes and promising you whatever you want that night for....tea! ;D ;D ;D
Energy 52 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D