Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Radek Jablonski on March 29, 2013, 01:54:59 pm
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Hi
Since I got my scorpion I am still having problems with the pump hose bung. It was rare weeks ago but is gettting worse every day. Today I just stoped working I cancelled my jobs, having big job tomorrow and do not know if I can work with that pump. Movie shows the problem.
There is no problem with pressure and water flow, just that banging.
What can it be?
I think it is not an airlock. Could it be something with brass regulator?
It happens on any pressure, regulator very out or in.
http://youtu.be/CGI7z8dKXCw
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Is the black high pressure hose leading into the regulator a swivel fitting ( meaning you can unscrew it from the regulator without needing to disconnect the other end from the pump)
Disconnect it and turn on the pump, allow the water to be freely pumped out. (Aim it away from the machine)
Does it still make the same noise?
Is it does then its the pump head, if it does'nt then it might be the regulator
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Never had anything like that, the only thing that occurs to me is the cam bearing or water starvation or running dry which can pitt the surfaces hence the noise due to wear. Run you finger on the underside where the pump head meets the body, look for black grease. I did a pump head like that before I knew any better. Do you know when the machine was last serviced, pump head might need a good overhaul?
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Is the black high pressure hose leading into the regulator a swivel fitting ( meaning you can unscrew it from the regulator without needing to disconnect the other end from the pump)
Disconnect it and turn on the pump, allow the water to be freely pumped out. (Aim it away from the machine)
Does it still make the same noise?
Is it does then its the pump head, if it does'nt then it might be the regulator
Mike, the swivel is close to the pump not on the regulator.
I did disconnect that hose from the regulator and the water flow is not ideally constant. So, the pump head you say? What kit should I buy?
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Radek
With respect mate, there sounds to be NO problem from your old pump.
That purring/ banging noise you can hear is the pump working, nothing more, nothing less. As you can appreciate as pump motors wear they tend to get a little louder, but after speaking to a long term Scorpion & now Jaguar owner (who by the way has seen the video), he has confirmed that this is an almost identical running noise to his Scorpion.
A brand new Pump-Tec pump motor with head will sound lightly quieter & smoother but over time it becomes bedded in, used & starts to wear, as it wears it becomes noisier but does not detract from its performance, especially as a well maintained Pump_tec pump should last for years
Run some acidic rinse through from the fresh water tank occasionally to help keep it scale free
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Russ I dont think so.
I think that the flow on the yellow hose in the solution tank should be on constant (like it was before on most of time) not bouncing like now.
Mike, cleansmart sales as follow:
Kit A Pumptec plunger/seal
Kit B Pumptec valves
Kit C Cam bearing
Which should I buy?
Can I use it for few days before I do service Mike or it may do some seriouse damage?
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I'm with Russ, sounds fine to me. What is the spray like from your wand/upholstery tool? Shame you burnt your bridges!!!!
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Sounds fine to me too.
Mine's and oldish Pumptec and it sounds
just like that.
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more can be seen here
http://youtu.be/0xNa-kK6MKw
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If the vibration on the yellow hose has altered (And i don't think it looks normal) then some thing has changed either like suggested the pump is just getting old or the regulator is faulty
But the flow on the handtool looks normal how does it look on a wand is it constant flow with normal pressure?
Russ & JandS are saying it sounds exactly like theirs so I would agree with them that this is how a pumptec sounds as it gets old.
As the pulsation is only evident when its bypassing and not on the solution line leading to the tool I still think it's a regulator problem.
If it is the pump head then it could be high or low pressure seals or the cam. It needs looking at by some one experienced with those pumps or you could just buy all 3 and give your pump a needed service.
But rule out the regulator first
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on the wand everything is ok, constant pressure and flow with any pressure set
pulsation is also a bit on the solution line leading to the tool, but I think that it is becouse bung transfer from the inside of the machine
what to do with regulator? unscrew the outside brass (that what is outside of the casing) and see what inside?
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Strip it out and soak the parts in descaler over night
Or put it in the tank run it through the pump and let it sit in the pump lines & regulator over night to give everything a good clean
But check the pump will handle a strong acid.
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The pulsating coming from the return pipe looks intermittent... If you are going to perform a de scale never use a strong acid on this type of pump! i would use something like what you would use to de scale a kettle or coffee machine... fill the tank with 5 litres of hot water and add the de scaler.
Stick an open ended pipe from the quick connect output back into the tank and allow to recirculate for a good 45 mins... flush with clean water!
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Strip it out and soak the parts in descaler over night
ca not today as I have a job to do tomorrow, so will do on saturday night
you mean regulator inside parts?
Or put it in the tank run it through the pump and let it sit in the pump lines & regulator over night to give everything a good clean
sorry mike, do not understand :)
do you mean put the hand tool to the solution tank and run over the night?
But check the pump will handle a strong acid.
what you mean by checking the pump? open it? If yes, Nick said that pump can not be opened without repleacing the parts which I do not have at the moment.
edit:
Russ, will look for descaler tomorrow and will try
thank's for help
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btw: I have a final phase, should I try it? if yes what dilution do you recommend?
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Do as russ suggested (he typed it clearer than me) you need to run descaler through the full machine
I always use this to descaler my pump & anything hat requires an acid bath.
http://www.totalboilerspares.com/ourshop/prod_1591754-DS3-FERNOX-DS3.html
Or use white vinegar good & very safe.... but takes longer
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Get a few of these...
http://www.robertdyas.co.uk/P~126396~KILROCK-Big-K-Multi-Purpose-Descaler-400ml (http://www.robertdyas.co.uk/P~126396~KILROCK-Big-K-Multi-Purpose-Descaler-400ml)
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My Scorpion's pump sounds exactly like that, nothing wrong with that either. ;)
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got the last boxes of descaler from schop and just doing it
it is still bouncing but faster and not that agresive, nearly not visible, more constatant, will see.
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Russ, they're on offer in Aldi at the moment for £1.69, picked up a load today.
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ALDI!!!! Thats the waitrose of the valleys isn't it?
;D
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Haha! you found those cowboy boots yet Billy?
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ha funny
when I flushed the system with cold water the problem is back,
when I flushed with warm water again then it gone, flushed with cold and its back :o wtf?
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Haha! you found those cowboy boots yet Billy?
you can't say that to a director of the NCCA..... ::)roll ::)roll
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When you strip the regulator down make a note the way things come out on assembly apply a small amount of silicone grease to the rubber ring
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there is a video for that ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n45bZ7dkwPg
i thought the regulator was serviced :-X
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thanks John
need to get that synthetic grease now
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Here’s another one if you have a different regulator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNmxI9yGoEk
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To me it sounds like the cam bearing does not have enough (or none at all) lubricant.
Its a mistake I made when I first changed the pumphead on my Airflex machine years ago. I thought I had put enough silicone grease on it. Within 3 weeks, it starting making a noise similar to that but got worse throughout the day.
Turned out that the rattling had loosened the bolts holding the pumphead to the motor.
Anyway, was an easy enough fix. You really need to cake that grease on!!
Might be worth checking that too aswell as checking the regulator. If your buying the parts from CleanSmart then the silicone lub comes part of the "Kit A Pumptec plunger/seal". Maybe ask Matt for an extra tube. They come in handy for all orings and other fittings.
Could maybe even be a dodgy cam bearing
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I just odered 12g of super lube, is this what should I use for cam bearing too?
Just take off the pump head of the motor and apply some to the cam bearing or there is some more job to do?
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Apply it too the plunger. You'll see it when you take off the pumphead. You dont need to take the pumphead apart.
Put alot of lube on, dont be shy.
Also, before apply the lube, make sure the plunger moves freely. Should move nice and smoothly.
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Is this the same machine that has just been serviced by the supplier ?
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If the solution hose is disconnected do you still get the pulsating problem ???
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if you mean that black one, then yes, pulsation is not that bad like when the hose is connected, comparing to the yellow one bouncing.
Is not complately constant, small pulsation.
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I mean the blue one (solution hose to the wand or hand tool)
Problem could be the male connector on solution hose I had similar with the tm
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One other thing... make sure that the plastic water filter is clean on the end of the blue hose... this can get clogged up and cause poor flow.
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One other thing... make sure that the plastic water filter is clean on the end of the blue hose... this can get clogged up and cause poor flow.
clean or clogged, it has the same bung
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So you are nowhere forward with all advice given and still bung up time to call international rescue X USA there open on Monday
Just out of curiosity what with the two hoses in the solution tank is it your innovation I only ask as it’s the 1st time I’ve seen this in any porty ???
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len only descaler was in use, rest of advices are waiting for super lube
two hoses in the solution tank is not my innovation, normal for scorpion, read on the other channel that you can put them to any container and use it as normal instead of the original tank
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Len, I dont think he's gotten the repair kits or the super lube yet. Only ordered yestarday he says.
While I was working today I looked at my solution tank to what the solution hose was doing and was also listening out for what noise the pump was making (without the vacs on), and no its definitely not normal whats going on in your video!! And we have the same pumptech pumps.
But as I say, i'm pretty sure its the cam bearing not having enough lube.
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thanks for all your help guys,
once I will get my Lube and will use for regulator and cam I will say what I got
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Ok, got the Lube yesterday.
unscrewed the brass k n o b and this is inside of it
(http://i47.tinypic.com/30bodo3.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/15naqsj.jpg)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2v9rhjt.jpg)
movie showing the water coming out from regulator:
http://youtu.be/NnW5bi5yxec
after cleaning and after Lube added, hand tool attached straight to the regulator, seems to work better but with the 15m of solution hose works bad again. Before cleaning and lubricating was working bad even just with hand tool (without hose).
http://youtu.be/iCch5ixiBxQ
here is the cam and pump bar
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2mwciua.jpg)
(http://i47.tinypic.com/smt2lc.jpg)
here is the movie showing how is the pump bar moving, not too stiff?
http://youtu.be/DRrvb9h5Nzc
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Replace regulator, or install a repair kit if the regulator is leaking.
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what is included in the repair kit
how old this parts from the regulator looks like Ed?
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I'd say these are regulator kit parts ... yours looks pretty old to me :)
http://www.steam-brite.com/pumptec-brass-pressure-regulator-repair-regulators-p-4164.html
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under the link I can see some extra part I did not see, mean that plastic ring
did you order from them before, how long is waiting for uk-ie delivery? any cargo problems or something
I'd say these are regulator kit parts ... yours looks pretty old to me :)
hmmm, it should be brand new ;D
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The Steambrite guys are in the USA Radek ... might be easier to source from one of the UK suppliers .
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Cleansmart sells the regulator kit. Doesn't cost much.
There's also a video on youtube showing how to change it. Its easy and you'll also have to change the white plastic disc (its part of the kit) that's behind the metal plunger thing that your holding in the picture. You'll need a small drill bit to remove it.
Apply lube to everything before putting it back together.
The pump bar looks smooth enough. Remember to apply lots of lube to that bar before putting it together.
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thanks, have sent a message to cleansmart
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Radek;
Hard to put a number of years old those look ; however, I would safely say; "Old" & worn.
Further I suggest first cleaning the cam motor bearing and greasing it with a clear silicone grease before replacing the pump head.
I believe that Solutions UK also carries a full stock of replacement kits.
best;
Ed Valentine
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Ed,
those pictures you can see above shows the effect of service carried out by Solutions in Cornwal if any was done ;D
so, need to buy a regulator repair kit, pump head kit and cam and do it proper and soon is possible
but why do I need to pay for it twice, shame,
Kit A Pumptec plunger/seal £45.00 + VAT
Kit B Pumptec valves £30.00 +VAT
Kit C Cam bearing £15.75+VAT
regulator kit ? guess around 20+vat
delivery £28+Vat
and I have around £165 extra to £117 that I have already payed
very good bussiness done :'(
could try first just with regulator kit but if not work then another delivery cost
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Radek , you need to refer ED to the ' Magic service ' thread four pages back ..
This is ridiculous , Ed is in the business for 40 years and he said the regulator was not serviced , if you have paid for parts you should at least get your money back .
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Radek
I’m no lover of solutions UK and will never be but can you post there service invoice on work carried out not that I disbelieve you but it should be itemised like filling the screen washer £1.60 if you get my drift
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John, do you think that Nick will give back those 117 proving that he wasn't right, I say he will not? Legal action could be the only way but is not worth it, this is only 117. He still owes me alta spray tip and standard 2" cuff that I payed and never got.
Ed, here you go http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=167205.0 if you bored ;D
if you will read and if you do some opinion probably it will be on the Nick's side but I do not care, so feel free.
Len, no problem, just give me few sec
edit://
origanally it is pdf, I did a screen shot
(http://i47.tinypic.com/wnro.jpg)
and there is also something I forgot,
interesting is that one time I was told "We removed the pump and motor and from the machine and replaced the internal poppet valves and seals, we do not leave fingerprints inside an machine when we are working that would not be professional."
and in another message I was told "The motor/pump was spun upright still inside the machine the pump was opened seal replaced and then refitted"
one sentence is opposite the other one
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Mine is just like your's .Have you run the machine with an open end on the pressure pipe so the air can be released back into the tank and then turn down your pressure and see if the pulsing stops .I get the banging when i release the trigger
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many times I did it Des, many times.
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I'd say they thought you would be ' soft touch ' Radek
and it leaves you with a potentially unreliable machine costing you working downtime .
At least you have proven your doubts to be founded .
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Quite damning evidence right there.... I didn't realise you had also paid for a regulator kit already.
I still don't understand this not cleaning the inside of the machine while working on it!?! The internals NEEDS to be cleaned before AND after the work has been done! It makes the work more clean, professional and it just makes sense to do it that way.
And the strange thing is that it only takes like 2 minutes to preform this basic task.
The defenders of the realm will be along shortly to rip you apart Radek. Be strong brother.
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Got to ask as per picture there seems to be a lot of residual in the regulator presumably you fill fresh water tank with a bucket what one?
Looks like graphite grease in pump head not good practice methinks (think Ed agrees with me ;D)
On the positive side you now have a suppler in Dublin ;)
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The defenders of the realm will be along shortly to rip you apart Radek. Be strong brother.
soldiers are waiting for directions given by their commander ;D
Len, the dirt in the regulator can be new after descaler, still have it in the solution tank, even after cleaning new one will come up
the regulator is/was leaking a bit so it could be it. Well used piston is the thing.
I have a 200lt drum on the van and I am filling using garden pump, new clean one.
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Radek
So me trying to blame you ant working ;) sorry Solutions did try my best think a credit note via Dublin outlet is in order ;D also apology to Ed ::)roll
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finally did a service to the pump after getting all repair kits
now works like a charm :) all bungs gone on any pressure I set
thanks for all advices
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Just asked about your spare parts at woodbridge commercial, i think he quoted about half the price you have been charged! saying all that i have an account with them and could get it even cheaper, but if i have ever had a pump head problem ive always just changed the complete head as it only costs me a lttle over a hundred quid complete! so there is no insentive to strip the thing down and mess about with all those bits
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Thanks, Len.
Funny, john m always tries his best to discredit me. Hummm, I was only trying to help by chimming in what I thought was somewhat valuable advice & opinion.
Best to all;
Ed Valentine
cross-american corp.
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Edd
thanks for your Contribution to this thread, there are jerks on both forums mate ok
Stuart
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Stuart;
I sincerely thank you, sir, for your always kind and considerate comments. You are one of the very best, IMHO, and always very Professional!!!!
best to you and the family;
Ed Valentine
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Ed you dont know him like us ;D
Only joshing Stu ;)
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Ed , if you really wanted to help in this thread you could have helped Radek get his hard earned money back ...
But you had nothing to say about that ...
When the going gets tough ....
Stuart , i don't know how you lap up this attention seeking BS.
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John Martin
edd Valentine is an Honourable bloke! Ive had dealings with Edd for over eight years, he has always been very helpful, Its not up to Edd to intervene with the Radecks Issue! Its down to Nick white and no one else, to me as Edd rightfully said the regulater top hat washer looked worn to say the least
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John
Have to agree in part with stuart (don’t know Ed)
As for radek he really went round the houses to prove a point which was missed by some
Point is did radek get it sorted with Nick again his post is not forthcoming 8) :o
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Good to hear its working. Now you can sell it!! lol
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relation between me and Nick is not Ed's problem
Good to hear its working. Now you can sell it!! lol
probably I will try to sell it even loosing money, sicking of that machine, lesson lerned. Can not wait when I get Storm in a month time.
I am not going to deal about this case with Nick any more, if he has any honor he can contact me, I am sure he reads this forum, so he knows whats all about. At this moment he can not even do a correct refund for alta spray tip and cuff that I never got.
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John Martin
edd Valentine is an Honourable bloke! Ive had dealings with Edd for over eight years, he has always been very helpful, Its not up to Edd to intervene with the Radecks Issue! Its down to Nick white and no one else, to me as Edd rightfully said the regulater top hat washer looked worn to say the least
Two days after commenting on this post and radek telling him his story ..
He posted the following on another forum ...
Its obvious where loyalties lay ....
"
I suggest if purchasing "Used" that you consider purchasing from a reliable stand behind firm as SOLUTIONS, UK. Nick would never let anyone down or sell them short. And, the good thing is that he will be there for you if you have questions rather than fading away, which is typical or common of a lot of private sellers."