Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Lee Burbidge on March 29, 2013, 12:14:42 pm
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I have used both trad and wfp for window cleaning. Out of curiosity I want to set up a race between the trad and ladder and the wfp system.... and film it for everyone to see.... question is how do I make it fair.
For example, not all trad guys clean the frame, they leave this to go dirty and then offer a frame cleaning service as extra where as wfp the frames are cleaned by default.
I thought to test this out by arriving at a house, taking off your equipment, setting up, cleaning the job and replacing everything back. So the race starts in the van and finishes in the van.....
Willing to listen to ideas for this film......
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To make it fair let the trad cleaner start 5 min early ;D ;D
Paul
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The rules are... clean a 3-storey house.
Lets see how fast your trad guy is handling tripple-section ladders compared to a guy with a 40ft pole ;D ;D ;D
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Just use a couple of wendy houses side by side in your back garden.
After all there are some window cleaners who reckon they clean 40+ houses a day, so I presume they must be used to cleaning these wendy houses? :-X ;D
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Should be average 3 bed semi.
Trad guy doesn't do frames because its not normally what he does.
WFP guy does frames for the same reason.
Don't think there will be much in it.
I suppose all the wfp lot with an inferiority complex will be along soon to slag trad off ::)roll
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It would have to be like for like or it is not a fair comparrison.
Front of two identical houses side by side.
The trad guy should wipe the frames (which some of us did do when we were trad.)
Film them both turning up and compare the time and finish.
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Will the wfp house have phillic or phobic glass ??
It will make a big difference in cleaning time.
Will it be a first clean or regular clean ??
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Wiping the frames isn't the norm for trad yes some do but the vast majority don't.
It shouldn't be about who wins and loses but more about the time difference during a normal days work.
Start putting variables in it and we won't learn anything
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Oh yeah; encouraging someone to "race" up and down ladders is a great idea, Lee! ::)roll
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What about a row of terraces on bin day? Maybe with a local cat that makes a mess of the alley?
I am wfp btw. ;D
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Wiping the frames isn't the norm for trad yes some do but the vast majority don't.
It shouldn't be about who wins and loses but more about the time difference during a normal days work.
Start putting variables in it and we won't learn anything
Its the norm for most window cleaners i know who are trad and i know dozens.
Also no running up or down ladders its dangerous.
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And most definately no ladderslides!
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It would have to be like for like really. To make it interesting, make it as much ladder work as possible.
Don't think there will be much in it.
I suppose all the wfp lot with an inferiority complex will be along soon to slag trad off
2.5x turnover on basic residential work says otherwise, and then some. Not even talking about commercial. Maybe not initially, but definitely the potential. Never mind all the work that you can't do trad.
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you would have to check the finish of both houses at the end to make sure both are passable whoever does the worst job gets time added on for any runs streaks bits missed ect. like a time penalty ;)
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2.5x turnover on basic residential work says otherwise, and then some. Not even talking about commercial. Maybe not initially, but definitely the potential. Never mind all the work that you can't do trad.
A-lot of that difference is due to you not being completely knackered though, I doubt that you'd be 2.5x quicker in a one house race.
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First clean levels the race.
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Wiping the frames isn't the norm for trad yes some do but the vast majority don't.
It shouldn't be about who wins and loses but more about the time difference during a normal days work.
Start putting variables in it and we won't learn anything
Its the norm for most window cleaners i know who are trad and i know dozens.
Also no running up or down ladders its dangerous.
It might depend on where you live but no one round here cleans frames unless its extra
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It would have to be like for like really. To make it interesting, make it as much ladder work as possible.
Don't think there will be much in it.
I suppose all the wfp lot with an inferiority complex will be along soon to slag trad off
2.5x turnover on basic residential work says otherwise, and then some. Not even talking about commercial. Maybe not initially, but definitely the potential. Never mind all the work that you can't do trad.
See, its started already.
You cannot pole a house 2.5x faster than I could trad it.
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I have used both trad and wfp for window cleaning. Out of curiosity I want to set up a race between the trad and ladder and the wfp system.... and film it for everyone to see.... question is how do I make it fair.
For example, not all trad guys clean the frame, they leave this to go dirty and then offer a frame cleaning service as extra where as wfp the frames are cleaned by default.
I thought to test this out by arriving at a house, taking off your equipment, setting up, cleaning the job and replacing everything back. So the race starts in the van and finishes in the van.....
Willing to listen to ideas for this film......
That might be the case where you live but plenty up here (north east) try to get a way with just cleaning glass with wfp. (please note. there are some excellent wfp users up here too)
just do a glass only clean then inspect the results. only the fair way too do it IMO.
p.s. please everyone just keep too trying too clean 'glass only' wfp. I love u all!
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Time is money right ?
So who cares what method is fastest etc... It's about what method pays best ...
Trad could win maybe but only get £5 for the job ....
WFP may get double ....and only be slightly behind
Or vice versa
Just my opinion BTW
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I am mostly trad in londons westend cleaning restaurants i have job that took 45mins on 30ft ladder and im very good on a ladder iv been doing it for 35 years.now i do it wfp and it takes me 15mins and i dont have to have anyone foot the ladder so i dont think going up and down a ladder can be quicker.but if your looking for someone to have a go im your man.
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we have our first victim {i mean volunteer} jimi
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I think if the test is to clean the windows of the same type then do just that frames and sills is part of the windowso it should be done doing just that. Only cowboys dont so the frames end of.
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Trad or WFP we clean the frames and a test between the 2 should be a service of equal standards
maybe 1 house is not a fair indicator either - could you not find a road where you clean 2 semi's
a detached property and a bungalow with say at least 200 yards between them this would give
a better result - not just a race around a single house
houses can be cleaned beforehand and the frames preped with a squirt of dirty water so all things are equal
Darran
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I think if the test is to clean the windows of the same type then do just that frames and sills is part of the windowso it should be done doing just that. Only cowboys dont so the frames end of.
I bet the vast majority of wfp guys were cowboys when they were trad then?
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Just knew this thread would disintegrate into trad v wfp.
Wfp is just a tool used by a lot of tools ;D
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Is the OP a convert? If you are surely your turnover (for standard maintenance cleans) would save you making a video ?
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If it was inside and outside ill trad and win.
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trad and wfp are both tools of the trade, there will be times and places where each comes into its own, as professional window cleaners I think it's important to have both skillsets as well as all the equipment, as somebody said earlier- as pro window cleaners the frames should be done every time and not as a 2 tier pricing system, price well and do the frames anyway, the race is pointless as wfp will always win, the wfp versus trad thing will rage on but I for one would not dream of marketing myself as a professional window cleaning company without being fully equipped with wfp, trad gear and proper training, again think race is pointless
Graham
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To make it an equal race it would have to be a boat that gets cleaned.
That way both sides will be cleaning round windows ;D
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Some window cleaners in westend of london just have a bucket with tools and a pole.thay walk form job to job or jump on the bus and can get £200 to £300 a day if you have the work. I done it for 3 years doing restaurants shops offices the lot you dont even need a van.my mate has £75000 a year of work and dont even drive.i have wfp but only use it now and then 250 litres last me 2 to 3 weeks.If you can not trad down here you would not work.I have read on here that some windows cleaners use mr muscle on the inside what a joke that is not how it is done my mum can do that.
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Some window cleaners in westend of london just have a bucket with tools and a pole.thay walk form job to job or jump on the bus and can get £200 to £300 a day if you have the work. I done it for 3 years doing restaurants shops offices the lot you dont even need a van.my mate has £75000 a year of work and dont even drive.i have wfp but only use it now and then 250 litres last me 2 to 3 weeks.If you can not trad down here you would not work.I have read on here that some windows cleaners use mr muscle on the inside what a joke that is not how it is done my mum can do that.
They aren't touching the top frames then? Sounds like a shower to me.
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It would have to be like for like really. To make it interesting, make it as much ladder work as possible.
Don't think there will be much in it.
I suppose all the wfp lot with an inferiority complex will be along soon to slag trad off
2.5x turnover on basic residential work says otherwise, and then some. Not even talking about commercial. Maybe not initially, but definitely the potential. Never mind all the work that you can't do trad.
See, its started already.
You cannot pole a house 2.5x faster than I could trad it.
Sure can, why not? The bigger the property the better. :)
What most people need to keep in mind is that a lot of people that post on here can still improve their speed tremendously. Its not just technique, its everything. It has got nothing to do with inferiority complex, just have an open mind to the possibilities.
I've done both for years, so I think I can comment fairly on both. And still my biggest residential jobs require me to do both.
Back on topic.
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I suggest both wc'ers working in oversized fancy dress with Stuart Hall commentating on it.
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To make it fair let the trad cleaner start 5 min early ;D ;D
Paul
lol
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Should be average 3 bed semi.
Trad guy doesn't do frames because its not normally what he does.
WFP guy does frames for the same reason.
Don't think there will be much in it.
I suppose all the wfp lot with an inferiority complex will be along soon to slag trad off ::)roll
This is exactly what I thought. Average 3 bed semi.... good idea re no frames on trad guy as it is not that normal for trad guy to do the frames every time :) thanks
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It would have to be like for like or it is not a fair comparrison.
Front of two identical houses side by side.
The trad guy should wipe the frames (which some of us did do when we were trad.)
Film them both turning up and compare the time and finish.
We might have to vote on this one then as we have one saying take out the frames and you saying keep them in....
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Will the wfp house have phillic or phobic glass ??
It will make a big difference in cleaning time.
Will it be a first clean or regular clean ??
This is good! I need to check that the properties I use are hydrophobic then and determine if they are first cleans or not... thank you
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Wiping the frames isn't the norm for trad yes some do but the vast majority don't.
It shouldn't be about who wins and loses but more about the time difference during a normal days work.
Start putting variables in it and we won't learn anything
Awesome post... thank you
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Oh yeah; encouraging someone to "race" up and down ladders is a great idea, Lee! ::)roll
Thats not the intention.... its is not a race as such. Both wfp and trad would have to clean realistically as they would in the field :)
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you would have to check the finish of both houses at the end to make sure both are passable whoever does the worst job gets time added on for any runs streaks bits missed ect. like a time penalty ;)
Good one...
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First clean levels the race.
True... depends on if I can find to first cleans side by side for the film??
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It would have to be like for like really. To make it interesting, make it as much ladder work as possible.
Don't think there will be much in it.
I suppose all the wfp lot with an inferiority complex will be along soon to slag trad off
2.5x turnover on basic residential work says otherwise, and then some. Not even talking about commercial. Maybe not initially, but definitely the potential. Never mind all the work that you can't do trad.
See, its started already.
You cannot pole a house 2.5x faster than I could trad it.
lol love it
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Trad or WFP we clean the frames and a test between the 2 should be a service of equal standards
maybe 1 house is not a fair indicator either - could you not find a road where you clean 2 semi's
a detached property and a bungalow with say at least 200 yards between them this would give
a better result - not just a race around a single house
houses can be cleaned beforehand and the frames preped with a squirt of dirty water so all things are equal
Darran
For this test Im going to do it simple. Two identical houses side by side. Start in the van, stops when back in the van.....
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I suggest both wc'ers working in oversized fancy dress with Stuart Hall commentating on it.
It would have to be prison windows then...
That juliet bslcony technique will come in handy!
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gotta be inside and out for it to be a proper duel.
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I think both need to start from their respective vehicles and the tradder needs to start with ladder clamps on.
^ most jobs are externals only so why compare ins and outs?
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I think both need to start from their respective vehicles and the tradder needs to start with ladder clamps on.
^ most jobs are externals only so why compare ins and outs?
as a trad man i do a fair bit of inside work. by all accounts WFP lads steer clear of insides but thats just because they havent needed to sharpened up their act imo . i think a good dual would be two 3 storey town houses that hadnt been done in a longtime in and out .
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I think both need to start from their respective vehicles and the tradder needs to start with ladder clamps on.
^ most jobs are externals only so why compare ins and outs?
as a trad man i do a fair bit of inside work. by all accounts WFP lads steer clear of insides but thats just because they havent needed to sharpened up their act imo . i think a good dual would be two 3 storey town houses that hadnt been done in a longtime in and out .
Tbh ins and outs isnt a regular service for most domestic clients. I was trad for 15 years and I can honestly say at a guess insides may of amounted to less than 5% of the work carried out over the years. An equal duel would be starting from vehicles, external glass & frames, finish with doors shut on vehicles (inc ladders clamped) perfection or time penalties.
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I think both need to start from their respective vehicles and the tradder needs to start with ladder clamps on.
^ most jobs are externals only so why compare ins and outs?
as a trad man i do a fair bit of inside work. by all accounts WFP lads steer clear of insides but thats just because they havent needed to sharpened up their act imo . i think a good dual would be two 3 storey town houses that hadnt been done in a longtime in and out .
I would agree with the other post. Most window cleaners do out side only as a primary part of the job so it will have to be out only. We need to be careful about overcomplicating with too many variables as posted by somebody previously which I agree with :)
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Don't forget the windows above the conservatory and the porch at the front.
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Throw in some obstacles- the back/side gate being locked. A load of wheely bins in the way. A bbq full of rain water that needs to be moved and soaks your leg. A small, yapping dog running round your feet and the customer insisting 'he only wants to say hello'. Or the customer asking 'do you want to have a look at my new fitted kitchen?' or telling you about her son's promotion at work or the hip replacement she recently had.
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agree with Griff , a more intresting test would be if both were wearing handcuffs or using feet only
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wfp boys insides with mr muscle will take all day thats why they dont want to do insides
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wfp boys insides with mr muscle will take all day thats why they dont want to do insides
Maybe you're forgetting all the window cleaners who for 20 years did trad cleaning then made the change to WFP.
We don't just forget how to do it. I do both in my video listed below.
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wfp boys insides with mr muscle will take all day thats why they dont want to do insides
Fancy a race yourself then mate?
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YES
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wfp boys insides with mr muscle will take all day thats why they dont want to do insides
Fancy a race yourself then mate?
Lets get it on then and put your myth to bed ;) next wc show?
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Use Terry Turbot to do the ladder work.
That way we can kill two birds with one stone. See which method is quickest and see if Terry really can clean a window without missing any and with detailing. ;D
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Terry doesn't like ladders.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1364819013_HOUSE.jpg)
use a house in london old sash window when wfp water gos inside.no access to back of house extension on top can not be wfp. In london they all want insides cleaned.
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Use Terry Turbot to do the ladder work.
That way we can kill two birds with one stone. See which method is quickest and see if Terry really can clean a window without missing any and with detailing. ;D
Sounds a bit fishy?
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Use Terry Turbot to do the ladder work.
That way we can kill two birds with one stone. See which method is quickest and see if Terry really can clean a window without missing any and with detailing. ;D
Sounds a bit fishy?
;D