Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dave Willis on March 23, 2013, 08:13:18 am

Title: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Dave Willis on March 23, 2013, 08:13:18 am
I was reading a post somewhere where Alex mentioned that carbon wear could be reduced by adding a stronger material but it would add weight etc etc. What wears the pole away? Is it the clamps themselves or the sections rubbing?
Could the clamps be softened or the clamping areas (I'm thinking Xtreme here) be hardened?
It must happen on all poles, not just the Gardiners range.
I accept that poles eventually wear away - the bit I hate is the bit inbetween - brand new to knackered. In effect the pole is fabulous for about three months then horrible for the rest of its life.

You guys who have poles that last for years - how do you do it? Do you work with your clamps half shut and just ignore it when they wear, not care when they catch on conservatory roofs or just chuckle when the  pole spins and your brush smacks the glass. Do you giggle when your clamp releases on a forty foot pole and the whole lot comes crashing down? Laugh when you can't pull the brush neck out without adjusting the other clamps?

Come on, how do you do it?
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Perfect Windows on March 23, 2013, 08:32:58 am
I think the wear is caused solely by dirt and grit.  It gets in the gap between the tubes and, mixed with water, forms a grinding paste.  Add in a dozen extensions and contractions of your pole per clean and you're doing exactly what you would do to deliberately sand down the tubes.  The clamps are the worst offenders for two reasons.  One, they are a tighter fit and two, they are the area where all the force is applied to the pole when you're applying any kind of turning movement.  That's why they wear so much at the fully closed point.

Clean them every day and they'll last a lot longer.  Clean them every week like I do and they'll last a while.  Never clean them and they'll go in no time.

I've suggested one solution, which is a 1mm recess in the carbon fibre and a countersunk 1mm thick aluminium tube for the main wear points (fully closed/extended for most, on the bulges for an extreme).  The problem is that it would add weight and a lot of complexity in manufacturing.  I've even thought of trying to find someone to do that work to a pole; finding the right person to do it would be difficult, though.

More simply on the DIY front, I do wonder if the application of some properly strong lacquer (not the spray on stuff) at clamping points might help.

Vin

Vin

Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Dave Willis on March 23, 2013, 08:38:35 am
What about a clamp that some how absorbs pole wear?
It winds me up no end that I pay stupid money for a pole and have to use it in substandard form for 80% of its life.
I want a pole that's absolutely perfect for 80% of its life then wears away at the last 20% like most thing in life do.
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on March 23, 2013, 08:49:41 am
As Vin says, dirt on the pole hose getting inside.

For all the improvements in WFP technology over the last few years & yet no one has come up with a cure for the biggest remaining problem!!!
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Perfect Windows on March 23, 2013, 09:18:33 am
What about a clamp that some how absorbs pole wear?
It winds me up no end that I pay stupid money for a pole and have to use it in substandard form for 80% of its life.
I want a pole that's absolutely perfect for 80% of its life then wears away at the last 20% like most thing in life do.

Agree with the "wants" bit but not quite clear on the "clamp absorbs pole wear" bit.  Do you mean a clamp that compensates for the wear on the different parts of the pole profile? i.e. clamps where it's worn as well as where it's not?

Vin
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: john stracey on March 23, 2013, 09:22:56 am
I think a way of extending pole life is to use an external pole hose, i switched mine over at christmas, just by taping the hose at the top middle and bottom of the pole, the slack hose i just hold in my hand against the pole when using on ground floor have'nt had to flush pole down the inside since, and just a  wipe over with a damp cloth now and again,no more grit jamming up the pole,
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: dd on March 23, 2013, 09:24:02 am
I think the clamps on the phoenix open more fully which hopefully will reduce pole wear.
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: simonr on March 23, 2013, 09:27:08 am
???? i been using an clx every day all day for nearly 2yrs, the one worn top bit has tape round it so it acts as normal, other sections are showing black from wear but none of them spin cos you can adjust the clamps. so it still works at 100%   i'll get another year easy out of it , while i do clean it, its not often & i've only ptf sprayed it once.   so are fully carbon ones that much weaker ???
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: David stewart on March 23, 2013, 09:29:26 am
What way do yous clean your poles? I've started cleaning mine although too little too late now. Anyway, I fully extend each section giving a good rinse and clean with a cloth but no matter how much ya clean it, it still sounds like a grinder when closing the sections again. The trapped dirt and grit seems impossible to get out.
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: SunShineCleaning on March 23, 2013, 09:39:05 am
Cleaning is important as well as flushing with water on a regular basis.


I think carbon wears quicker than composit but is not as light.
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Perfect Windows on March 23, 2013, 09:57:27 am
What way do yous clean your poles? I've started cleaning mine although too little too late now. Anyway, I fully extend each section giving a good rinse and clean with a cloth but no matter how much ya clean it, it still sounds like a grinder when closing the sections again. The trapped dirt and grit seems impossible to get out.

Fully extend, put the brush head end on the floor and run water into it from a hose.  The hole at the top of the pole is small (and blocked by the pole hose) so it fills.  When it's full, stand it up so the water empties out.  Repeat.

I've seen a video somewhere of someone who put his pole, fully extended, in a stream and leaves it for a few minutes.

Vin
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Tom White on March 23, 2013, 10:00:56 am
As Vin says, dirt on the pole hose getting inside.

For all the improvements in WFP technology over the last few years & yet no one has come up with a cure for the biggest remaining problem!!!

I work with external pole hose; it reduces the amount of dirt up the pole (that sounds rude dunnit?).

However I don't work with an external pole hose for that reason, I do it because it's a quick way to work once you get the knack.

Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: chez on March 23, 2013, 10:15:11 am
???? i been using an clx every day all day for nearly 2yrs, the one worn top bit has tape round it so it acts as normal, other sections are showing black from wear but none of them spin cos you can adjust the clamps. so it still works at 100%   i'll get another year easy out of it , while i do clean it, its not often & i've only ptf sprayed it once.   so are fully carbon ones that much weaker ???

In my experience they are. First clx lasted over a year so bought an slx didn't last as long even cleaning once a month. I think carbon is weaker but much better to work with as more rigid and lighter. But probably will only buy carbon for that reason.
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: dd on March 23, 2013, 10:48:11 am
Strange, people before always seem to post that the slx wears better than the clx.

Currently I have only used the clx but am in process of upgrading my poles to slx over this year (possibly try the Phoenix too).
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Smudger on March 23, 2013, 11:02:00 am
Unfortunately anything that moves causes friction - friction means wear ( same as a car engine )
ideally the clamps would need be constantly lubricated to avoid wear to the carbon or made from a
material that is 'self lubricating' and the only thing i can think of is PTFE which is too soft.

metal inserts would be good as ( for me ) any wear i have had is the fully closed position but weight/thickness and complex manufacturing process all but rule this out.

Looser clamping may actually be worse than close fitting clamps as it will 1. let larger particles get trapped in the clamp area and 2. lead to uneven wear on the pole as it 'flops' side to side in the clamp or drags on obe contact point.

I used to get a lot of grit and stuff inside the pole when i had the standard gardiners butt cap but when i changed to a thick rubber (tecbuk) one and bonded in a penny washer with a 10mm hole i have not suffered this problem - which in turn has made me lazy by not cleaning my SLX for a couple of months or so  :-[

Darran
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: dave f on March 23, 2013, 11:04:20 am
ive repaird mine by putting a leyer of varnish at top and bottom of each section it lasts a couple of months but its the inbetween thats a ball ache try replacing the clamps as well they also fail its just one of those things and i got some clear automotive laquer and gave the poles a good coat it helps fore a while to stop your hands getting black if you dont wear gloves
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: andyM on March 23, 2013, 11:38:13 am
At the end of the day I can't see how the manufacturers/sellers would be too interested in making their poles last longer?
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: chez on March 23, 2013, 12:06:43 pm
At the end of the day I can't see how the manufacturers/sellers would be too interested in making their poles last longer?


Very true :o
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on March 23, 2013, 12:09:22 pm
Disagree Toshimitsu! I hated working with external pole hose and fail to see how it could be any quicker even with the nack...each to his own.
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Ronnie Bryce on March 23, 2013, 12:19:14 pm
(http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq288/borbryce/images_zpsb4cfecf3.jpg)

Brush onto worn sections as needed.
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: simonr on March 23, 2013, 01:08:15 pm
every time i put the pole in the van i coil the hose & run it through my hand & so cleaning it a bit, but i've had no problems with clamps really so i dont know what i'm doin that others aren't. also gardiners have a vid up about putting glue on the worn bit to make it up again, i just use a bit of end stop tape, that bit doesn't close fully but only by about 5mm so hardly a problem
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: ben M on March 23, 2013, 01:16:32 pm
(http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq288/borbryce/images_zpsb4cfecf3.jpg)

Brush onto worn sections as needed.
seriously?
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Pro-Poler on March 23, 2013, 01:25:24 pm
(http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq288/borbryce/images_zpsb4cfecf3.jpg)

Brush onto worn sections as needed.
Can't see why this wouldn't work you're only building a surface back up I would prep with T Cut though not sand paper
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Dave Willis on March 23, 2013, 01:45:54 pm
What about a clamp that some how absorbs pole wear?
It winds me up no end that I pay stupid money for a pole and have to use it in substandard form for 80% of its life.
I want a pole that's absolutely perfect for 80% of its life then wears away at the last 20% like most thing in life do.

Agree with the "wants" bit but not quite clear on the "clamp absorbs pole wear" bit.  Do you mean a clamp that compensates for the wear on the different parts of the pole profile? i.e. clamps where it's worn as well as where it's not?

Vin

Yes, given that pole wear is unavoidable maybe a clamp that can hold a greater range of diameters?
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Tom White on March 23, 2013, 01:59:48 pm
Disagree Toshimitsu! I hated working with external pole hose and fail to see how it could be any quicker even with the nack...each to his own.

That's what Dazmond used to say until he tired of his aquadaptors and persevered with the external pole hose, and then found it was indeed, the better simpler way.

Wossy too.  It's much easier to extend and retract the pole when the hose isn't going through it; it's easy to switch poles too, which I often do.
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Pro-Poler on March 23, 2013, 02:03:17 pm
Disagree Toshimitsu! I hated working with external pole hose and fail to see how it could be any quicker even with the nack...each to his own.

That's what Dazmond used to say until he tired of his aquadaptors and persevered with the external pole hose, and then found it was indeed, the better simpler way.

Wossy too.  It's much easier to extend and retract the pole when the hose isn't going through it; it's easy to switch poles too, which I often do.
I see more pros than cons here ;)
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: ben M on March 23, 2013, 04:42:52 pm
nail vanish is useless on worn sections, just tried it!
Hi-Strength Acrylic Glue Two-Pack Rapid Adhesive,doesn't last long!
simply electrical tap,very quick to do,cheap and last much longer  ;)
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Pro-Poler on March 23, 2013, 04:45:31 pm
nail vanish is useless on worn sections, just tried it!
Hi-Strength Acrylic Glue Two-Pack Rapid Adhesive,doesn't last long!
simply electrical tap,very quick to do,cheap and last much longer  ;)
The nail varnish guy must have been having us in the net ::)roll
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Ronnie Bryce on March 23, 2013, 04:58:32 pm
Sorry that is the wrong stuff. You need to use the pink coloured stuff.
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: ben M on March 23, 2013, 05:12:27 pm
nail vanish is useless on worn sections, just tried it!
Hi-Strength Acrylic Glue Two-Pack Rapid Adhesive,doesn't last long!
simply electrical tap,very quick to do,cheap and last much longer  ;)
The nail varnish guy must have been having us in the net ::)roll
i think you are right  >:(
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: David stewart on March 23, 2013, 05:25:56 pm
What way do yous clean your poles? I've started cleaning mine although too little too late now. Anyway, I fully extend each section giving a good rinse and clean with a cloth but no matter how much ya clean it, it still sounds like a grinder when closing the sections again. The trapped dirt and grit seems impossible to get out.

Fully extend, put the brush head end on the floor and run water into it from a hose.  The hole at the top of the pole is small (and blocked by the pole hose) so it fills.  When it's full, stand it up so the water empties out.  Repeat.

I've seen a video somewhere of someone who put his pole, fully extended, in a stream and leaves it for a few minutes.

Vin

Just after trying your way mate, works a treat ;) just a pity I've left it so long before cleaning it but going to try and build up the worn sections with apoxy resin to see how it lasts.
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Perfect Windows on March 23, 2013, 05:39:40 pm
Epoxy lasts (for me) between a week and a month.  I'm getting bored of doing it and I'm going to cut down the sections to unworn length.  I'll lose 6"-8" of pole but I'll be happier.

Vin
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: ben M on March 23, 2013, 05:52:46 pm
Epoxy lasts (for me) between a week and a month.  I'm getting bored of doing it and I'm going to cut down the sections to unworn length.  I'll lose 6"-8" of pole but I'll be happier.

Vin
same for me, max 3 weeks
try electrical tape,last 2 weeks but very cheap and very quick to change  ;)
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: Mike #1 on March 24, 2013, 07:10:35 am
Car spray laquer as mentioned before last about 4-6 weeks but i dont clean my pole every week .

Replace end cap as Smudger has said but i use a squash ball cut the top off so it fits firmly over end of pole section . You can either cut a star shaped aperture for the pole hose to pass through or drill a hole .

make sure pole hose can just pass through this will help dirt getting inside sections .

The rubber does wear better of repalcing squash ball end cap every 6 months or so mine is long over due a change . Mike
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: GOLDIE on March 25, 2013, 01:01:40 am
Hi I find the clx 27 to be an amazing pole I use it daily for every thing but as you said the wear was an issue splinters spining brush head etc but with practice you can tweek the clamps and save on wear cleanliness of pole also helps, but when mine wore out i bought west system 105 epoxy resin and gave it a new coat brand new pole   enough to recoat pole 6-7 times leave as long as possible to cure. tricky but saved on cost of new pole
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: simonr on March 25, 2013, 06:27:12 am
Epoxy lasts (for me) between a week and a month.  I'm getting bored of doing it and I'm going to cut down the sections to unworn length.  I'll lose 6"-8" of pole but I'll be happier.

Vin
same for me, max 3 weeks
try electrical tape,last 2 weeks but very cheap and very quick to change  ;)
the tape gardiners sell lasts much longer than the electrical tape from b&q dunno why though
Title: Re: Dreaded pole wear
Post by: richard jagger on March 25, 2013, 07:17:07 am
When I claps my pole I role up hose through a micro fibre as I place the pole back in the van rack.Over titening the clamp can also ware a pole quicker.