Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Carpet Dawg on March 19, 2013, 08:43:15 pm
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:o
I've cleaned for this customer lots of times over the last 5 years. The lounge carpet i've cleaned atleast 6-7 times at the top of my head (she has small kids and dog).
Used all sorts of products on the carpet in that time. Always came up brand new, always been able to remove all stains. I've used dye-gone, amonia, citrus gel etc etc all in the past never an issue.
Its a polyprop, very light colour, off white, short twist pile.
I cleaned this lounge again last week. There was a brown stain near the sofa and coffee table, I'm 99% sure it was a coffee or tea stain. Customer has no idea, didn't even mention it!
Cracked open my sod-met (spray and go). Made a weak solution, half the recommended mix with tap hot water (it was hot but not boiling which is what i usually use!)
Applied it to the stain, almost vanished, tampered it with towel, applied a bit more sod met. Stain gone, Rinsed it pretty much instantly. Everhything was great, did the rest of the room. Got the dreaded call back to say it had turned green..... And it did, a light, lime green stain about twice the size of the original stain.
So, what are my options apart from replacement? is there a way of "reversing" the reducing agent? I have thought about hydrogen peroxide as i can get powerful stuff from the hairdressers. Is this an option?
The customer is not overly mad as she said she can put a piece of furniture there or bring her sofa a bit closer to hide the stain, but thats b******s! I need to fix it.
I've used tons of sod-met before over the last 13 odd years! never a problem! I have no idea why this went t1ts up! I can only presume I left it too long? but surely it would have just bleached the area, not turned it green! ???
Could it made have reacted to what ever was in the carpet? something the customer tried to clean the stain with?
Any advice would be welcome.
Tony
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Polyprop
Weak solution of sod met
carpet gone from white to green
Does not add up.
Did you neautralise it first or just rinse it out.
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Sounds like the customer has been tampering with it and your sod met has reacted to it. Very unlucky, I'd say.
Simon
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Gave it a good rinse Paul. Maybe not quick enough, its what I usualy do this time bit me on the bum. Its the green colour that I dont understand.
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What did you rinse with?
Shaun
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powdered f90 in the tank. Tap hot water
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I guessing its a ph change, was it powdered f90 or liquid?
Shaun
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You might try an Acidic Rinse, i'd mix some up in a spray bottle as a test, this could pull the alkalinity down and reverse it. I would also rinse with plain water before doing anything else.
I would also recommend giving Chemspec Europe a ring 01274 597333 or Chemspec Direct 0800 0743700 both have offered invaluable advice.
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powdered mate.
Its very annoying! Used sod-met again today to remove red wine from a very expensive suite! (nothing else waws touching it) I dried the area with a hair dryer and made sure it was fully dry before cleaning the rest of the suite as normal. Not taking anyore chances!!
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I don't think it will help here but you can reverse an oxidizing bleach with a reducing one, ........or is it the other way round!?
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Did you do a wick back test for residue.
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Thanks Simon, i'll give thhem a bell tomorrow.
I did try rinsing with water when I went back. I'm sure i've got a bottle of fib n fab kicking about somewhere. Thanks.
Does anyone think that dye-gone would have any effect?
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You might try an Acidic Rinse
Not sure what's going on, if it's an indicator dye problem or what but I'd be careful... acid on top of a reducing agent will act as an accelerant!
Before that I'd try the other side of the pH scale. Sodium bicarbonate is widely quoted as being the fix but if you don't have that maybe dilute some household ammonia 1:10 and brush a bit on, see what happens.
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Did you do a wick back test for residue.
No Paul, what does that consist of? will be going back.
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iv had similar happen ,,,just acid rinse.... :) it worked for me.
Lee G
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Jim, would you say the amonia is better than the bicarb in this situation? I'll buy the two tomorrow, might have some bicarb in the house..
Lee, you had a green stain on a polyprop after using spray n go and fixed it with an acid rinse?
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I would do the same as Jim has said Tony. Take an acidic chem ( even white vinegar will do) a high ph chem and bicarb of soda. It wont be an indicator dye in polyprop but more likely residue in the base of the carpet that has wicked back and reacted with the sod met.
Just put a small amount of each of the above in three different areas making sure they dont wet out each other, put them on the fibres indirectly and then dry off with a hair drier, dont let it get too hot though,you should get some indication/ change/ reduction with one them.
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I think Jim may have the answer that's what I would do, remember that reducer is a low ph product and so is acid rinse I think you would have to reverse it bicarbonate of soda is approx ph 8 ish but if i remember correctly isn't buffered so the weaker the solution the more towards neutral not sure how high the ph will go if mixed stronger, ph papers at the ready!
Shaun
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Also if its poss try and see whats going on under the carpet.
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Cheers guys, well the mark is diffantly big enough to try several different things on it without them touching each other.
I'll try amonia, bicarb, acid rinse/white vinegar and a high ph chem. (powerburst?)
And before all that i'll check under the carpet.
Not got any blooming ph papers! >:( 3-4 teaspoons mix in hot water in a bog standard trigger bottle?
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Tony ive sent you an email to the address on your info.
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Turned green, eh?
Did you make it angry?
Sorry, that's the limit of I disagreeistance.
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Thanks Paul! Just read it now ;D many thanks!!
This forum is a valuable tool! Thanks to everyone thats contributed!
I'll report back and let you know how I got on.
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Turned green, eh?
Did you make it angry?
lol i'll go back with some haribo and we'll make up!
Sorry, that's the limit of I disagreeistance.
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I rarely spot treat a polyprop carpet before extraction, only time i would spot treat would be if its make up chewing gum etc, or if after agitation it has not broken it down do i spot treat it. I don't see the point of spotting before extraction on this type of carpet until you have to. on pure wool that's a different story.
Well that what i was taught anyway, on wool spot before, on synthetic you can do it after as most stains will come out and that is what i have found.
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I'm the same James, apart from stains which I know wont come out with pre-spray and agitation. i.e. tanning stains and as you said make up, chewing gum etc.
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I think you hit the nail on the head, when you suggested the customer may of used something to remove the stain. I would ask first what was used, before trying any reversal treatments.
Alby
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How did it go? ???
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Going back at the weekend. I'll post results.
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Ive had the same on several areas of an 80 20 twist - light green stains from using sodium met on tea and dog sick stains. Tried bicarb of soda but not even touched them. Told customer that i would have to claim on my insurance which I`m covered for treatment risks and guess what... they wont pay out!
Apparantly, because the carpet was already damaged from the existing stains and I had merely tried to improve them, I was not legally liable for the damge I had caused.
This is from an insurance company supposedly specialising in the cleaning industry so if you think you are fully insured.... think again!!!
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Your not having much luck lately you
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Now i wonder if there is something here.
Tony can you confirm carpet and which suppliers tanin remover was it you used.
Clive what make of tannin remover did you use.
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Hi Paul, not been the best of years!
I used Craftex shift. Just bought a brand new tub which will have melted somewhere in the back of the van!
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what insurance company clive ?
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i'll update in a bit, couple a couple of jobs on now. good news and bad. mainly good though!
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You are fully insured if you damage the carpet but
you haven't damaged it the customer has.
You've actually tried to rectify damage already done
but failed, that don't make you liable.
If I remember, when I attempt stain removal, I tell
the customer that the carpet is already damaged
and I will try and rectify it but it may turn out wrong.
They usually just say hit it with whatever and if it
don't come out we'll buy another/claim off insurance.
It surprises me the number of people who won't claim
on their insurance, reckon 50% of what I've done
don't bother.
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Only certain policies will cover customer for accidental damage to carpets.
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I think the majority of cleaners only have liability insurance not treatments risk they think it's an expensive up sell or add on.
Shaun
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Shaun, alot would be right. The insurance companys spend more time trying to get out of paying rather than settling.
I stopped mine a while back when i heard about the cleaner that changed the colour of a suite he was working on, it sounded like an indicator dye problem ( which is down to the fabric manufacturer not using the correct dyes or the dyes not being stabalised correctly) but because the cleaner had not spent an hour on testing the suite with his chemicals and fully drying it out to ensure no shrinkage or dye problems , they refused to pay out.
For high risk insurance on things you are working on you need to do a full test on audit and put it down on paper, this should be done in front of the customer as proof with a signature at the end, then they may pay you out if your lucky...
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People should realise Insurance companies are not your friends. They are greedy B******s on par with the banks which is basically what they are. They use your premiums to invest and will try hard to get out of paying.
The domestic insurance market is a disgrace at the moment. The insurers are using validation companies to blatently under value claims.
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How did this turn out?
Simon
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oops forgot to update.
Good news and bad.
The good news is that the green evenutaly came out and the customer was happy. But the bad news is that it was slightly discoloured in the end. But not too bad at all actauly, the area was near a window so the light coming in disguised it even more so your eyes wheren't drawn to it.
I was there for an hour and half with several chems, hair dryer in hand and numatic spotter on standby!
Out of all the chems I used "spray n go" (sod met) was the only thing giving me a result so stuck with if till it was gone. (YES, the bugger that started it all!)
I took pictures on my phone but you can hardley see anything! In unatural light the stain cannot be seen.
Lesson learned? Always rinse stains with plain water before using sod-met on them! IF that was the cause! Not 100% sure though.
Thanks to Paul Moss for his emails and advice and to John Kelly with the phone call, and everyone else that chipped in on here.
Paul
I used chemspec spray and go and the carpet was wool mix, deffo not 80/20 though!
Scary stories about insurance companies! Also noticed my exenses is £300! Could of probably got than room re-carpeted for less! lol. Insurance is a bit of a rip off eh? Lucky never been in the situation that I needed it. Touching wood.....!
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Result !!
Yeah carpet can be cheap,my g/f's lounge is 16x12 and it cost her £100 for a berber.
Which I fitted ;D