Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dd on March 16, 2013, 12:03:30 pm
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Looking to provide solar panel cleaning as an add on service.
However have done some research online an spoken to some customers that have self cleaning solar panels who monitor their efficiency/performance - and providing it rains enough (which it has) and the panels are on a pitched roof then they generally require very little in the way of cleaning as their is minimal benefit because the rain does a good enough job.
There are exceptions to this and it will depend on the area and how much dust etc they will pick up from their particular environment.
Not what I wanted to hear really.
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I have read that too ???
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Well, they are all wrong apparently.
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yes - thats what i was told by the customer (regular who has 16 panels)
he claims that over the last 18 months the output rarely changes and as yet has not/does not want
a solar panel clean
hopefully many others will :-\
Darran
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A bit like self cleaning conservatory roof glass then which surprisingly isn't self cleaning. Makes me laugh when a customer says they have self cleaning glass on their new conservatory and then 6 months later it looks absolutely terrible, covered in birds muck, dust, moss etc ;D
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So in that case we should never clean a conservatory,and many of the newer ones are self cleaning. Its a gimmick it will only brakes down organic material e.g bird droppings. It will do nothing to sand and road traffic film as these are not regarded as organic. For the self cleaning to work you would have to have a very hot day followed by heavy rain.Go tell you custy that.
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So in that case we should never clean a conservatory and many of the never ones. Its a gimmick it will only brakes down organic material e.g bird droppings. It will nothing to sand and road traffic film as these are not regarded as organic. For the self cleaning to work you would have to have a very hot day followed by heavy rain.Go tell you custy that.
???
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Have done 75 on an MOT station this morning, been up 18 months never been cleaned, supposed to be self cleaning but each one had a 2 inch line of green muck along the bottom edge.
Don't no if it had any detremental effect on his output, it was dark and miserable when we cleaned em..
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Exactly Richard - the frame was crappy and looked Kack but was the panel itself dirty ?
same applies in the main to conny's - the glass stays pretty clean but the framework turns green
in the long hot summer - some years ago :P the self cleaning glass did get as dirty as any other kind
so it all has it's limitations
right or wrong if a customers is told by the supplier it will stay clean then thats what they believe...
either way, and whether it be solar panels, conny roof i'm up for cleaning it if the customer wants it done
Darran
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Exactly Richard - the frame was crappy and looked Kack but was the panel itself dirty ?
same applies in the main to conny's - the glass stays pretty clean but the framework turns green
in the long hot summer - some years ago :P the self cleaning glass did get as dirty as any other kind
so it all has it's limitations
right or wrong if a customers is told by the supplier it will stay clean then thats what they believe...
either way, and whether it be solar panels, conny roof i'm up for cleaning it if the customer wants it done
Darran
+1 - Well said Darran! :)
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To me the key is if the customer monitors performance of the panels and they stay consistent, then there is no benefit to having them cleaned - except to me of course.
Would not compare to a conservatory roof as they serve a completely different purpose, also the roof they are sited on is normally a steeper angle than a conservatory roof which allows rain to clean the solar panels more effectively.
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Its not realistic to compare a solar panel with a conservatory roof.
Sure conny roofs get filthy, green and covered in moss. But the bad ones are usually on a north facing wall and dont get much sun.
Solar panels are the total opposite.
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A year old solar panel that I cleaned, cleaned half of it to start with just to show customer how dirty they was! it really looks like they are self cleaning doesn't it!
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1363457412_Photo0311.jpg)
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Exactly Richard - the frame was crappy and looked Kack but was the panel itself dirty ?
same applies in the main to conny's - the glass stays pretty clean but the framework turns green
in the long hot summer - some years ago :P the self cleaning glass did get as dirty as any other kind
so it all has it's limitations
right or wrong if a customers is told by the supplier it will stay clean then thats what they believe...
either way, and whether it be solar panels, conny roof i'm up for cleaning it if the customer wants it done
Darran
Not that you could visibly see, we fastened a clean micro fibre scrim to one of the pole brushes and gave it a once over just to show the customer, it was pretty sh**ty when we took it off.
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I do not know much about solar panels or if they are all self cleaning. I understand there is some difference in quality. But going from what some customers have said to me about their self cleaning panels and consistent performance, I am not sure they would benefit much by paying me to clean them.
This is obviously not what I want to hear but I like to be honest. If there is not much rain then a build of of dust/dirt would accumulate until it rained. This may explain your picture?
Thing is I really do not know for sure and was hoping Solar Steve might add his opinion as he cleans a lot of installations - though I am looking to target domestic.
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I do not know much about solar panels or if they are all self cleaning. I understand there is some difference in quality. But going from what some customers have said to me about their self cleaning panels and consistent performance, I am not sure they would benefit much by paying me to clean them.
This is obviously not what I want to hear but I like to be honest. If there is not much rain then a build of of dust/dirt would accumulate until it rained. This may explain your picture?
Thing is I really do not know for sure and was hoping Solar Steve might add his opinion as he cleans a lot of installations - though I am looking to target domestic.
That picture was last year with all that rain!
I only clean domestic ones all over my area for several firms that fit them. There is no such thing as self cleaning, they have a special coating on them that keeps them cleaner for a little longer, but you need the right conditions for this to happen. But they still get as dirty as normal glass. Especially at the angles they are.
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Self cleaning glass is selling tactic that they use. If they told the customers that they have to spend x amount to keep them clean they wouldn't sell as much.
Plus there are companies out there that fit them for free to houses and make money on selling electric to the electric companies, some of them have a team of cleaners that goes round cleaning them to keep the maximum profit from them!
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Thanks for the feedback RC.
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Thanks for the feedback RC.
No problem, you will always get the odd ones that don't want it
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I do not know much about solar panels or if they are all self cleaning. I understand there is some difference in quality. But going from what some customers have said to me about their self cleaning panels and consistent performance, I am not sure they would benefit much by paying me to clean them.
This is obviously not what I want to hear but I like to be honest. If there is not much rain then a build of of dust/dirt would accumulate until it rained. This may explain your picture?
Thing is I really do not know for sure and was hoping Solar Steve might add his opinion as he cleans a lot of installations - though I am looking to target domestic.
Hi dd. :) Do you want a simple answer or the scientific answer? :)
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I do not know much about solar panels or if they are all self cleaning. I understand there is some difference in quality. But going from what some customers have said to me about their self cleaning panels and consistent performance, I am not sure they would benefit much by paying me to clean them.
This is obviously not what I want to hear but I like to be honest. If there is not much rain then a build of of dust/dirt would accumulate until it rained. This may explain your picture?
Thing is I really do not know for sure and was hoping Solar Steve might add his opinion as he cleans a lot of installations - though I am looking to target domestic.
Hi dd. :) Do you want a simple answer or the scientific answer? :)
??? ???
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I do not know much about solar panels or if they are all self cleaning. I understand there is some difference in quality. But going from what some customers have said to me about their self cleaning panels and consistent performance, I am not sure they would benefit much by paying me to clean them.
This is obviously not what I want to hear but I like to be honest. If there is not much rain then a build of of dust/dirt would accumulate until it rained. This may explain your picture?
Thing is I really do not know for sure and was hoping Solar Steve might add his opinion as he cleans a lot of installations - though I am looking to target domestic.
Hi dd. :) Do you want a simple answer or the scientific answer? :)
Why Don't you just answer the question, you always avoid answering or answer it with questions, maybe you should try politics lol
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I do not know much about solar panels or if they are all self cleaning. I understand there is some difference in quality. But going from what some customers have said to me about their self cleaning panels and consistent performance, I am not sure they would benefit much by paying me to clean them.
This is obviously not what I want to hear but I like to be honest. If there is not much rain then a build of of dust/dirt would accumulate until it rained. This may explain your picture?
Thing is I really do not know for sure and was hoping Solar Steve might add his opinion as he cleans a lot of installations - though I am looking to target domestic.
Hi dd. :) Do you want a simple answer or the scientific answer? :)
Why Don't you just answer the question, you always avoid answering or answer it with questions, maybe you should try politics lol
Lol! Just trying to save my thumbs! I won't type out the long winded answer if no one wants it. :)
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I do not know much about solar panels or if they are all self cleaning. I understand there is some difference in quality. But going from what some customers have said to me about their self cleaning panels and consistent performance, I am not sure they would benefit much by paying me to clean them.
This is obviously not what I want to hear but I like to be honest. If there is not much rain then a build of of dust/dirt would accumulate until it rained. This may explain your picture?
Thing is I really do not know for sure and was hoping Solar Steve might add his opinion as he cleans a lot of installations - though I am looking to target domestic.
Hi dd. :) Do you want a simple answer or the scientific answer? :)
Why Don't you just answer the question, you always avoid answering or answer it with questions, maybe you should try politics lol
Lol! Just trying to save my thumbs! I won't type out the long winded answer if no one wants it. :)
Use your fingers to type then and just answer the question. If the answer takes 2 words or 1000's words. It will be an answer and helping the guy out that's asked for you help, yesterday I spent 20minutes on the phone to someone asking about solar panels, all because you wasn't answering his emails, phone calls or msg, people come on these forums to get help and advise or just chats.
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I do not know much about solar panels or if they are all self cleaning. I understand there is some difference in quality. But going from what some customers have said to me about their self cleaning panels and consistent performance, I am not sure they would benefit much by paying me to clean them.
This is obviously not what I want to hear but I like to be honest. If there is not much rain then a build of of dust/dirt would accumulate until it rained. This may explain your picture?
Thing is I really do not know for sure and was hoping Solar Steve might add his opinion as he cleans a lot of installations - though I am looking to target domestic.
Hi dd. :) Do you want a simple answer or the scientific answer? :)
Why Don't you just answer the question, you always avoid answering or answer it with questions, maybe you should try politics lol
Lol! Just trying to save my thumbs! I won't type out the long winded answer if no one wants it. :)
Use your fingers to type then and just answer the question. If the answer takes 2 words or 1000's words. It will be an answer and helping the guy out that's asked for you help, yesterday I spent 20minutes on the phone to someone asking about solar panels, all because you wasn't answering his emails, phone calls or msg, people come on these forums to get help and advise or just chats.
Uh? ??? It was my wedding anniversary yesterday and have been away all weekend, so wasn't overly active answering the phone/emails and stuff.
However, I've just checked my emails and no one has asked for help over the last few days. If they had, I would have replied. I will check my answer phone tomorrow and if someone has left a message, please rest assured that I will call them back.
It is very noble of you to help someone on the phone for 20 mins, something i have done with members on here on a number of occasions.
If you read back through threads that have mentioned solar panels, you will see that I have offered help to people individually and they have posted and thanked me for that help. I have also offered an abundance of generic info about the subject and tried to answer as accurately as I can.
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Getting back to the thread at hand, the answer can be long and drawn out or short. For now I'll give the short answer that not all panels are self-cleaning and even those that proport to be are not very efficient and still benefit from manual cleaning.
If anyone requires more detail, please feel free to ask.
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I do not know much about solar panels or if they are all self cleaning. I understand there is some difference in quality. But going from what some customers have said to me about their self cleaning panels and consistent performance, I am not sure they would benefit much by paying me to clean them.
This is obviously not what I want to hear but I like to be honest. If there is not much rain then a build of of dust/dirt would accumulate until it rained. This may explain your picture?
Thing is I really do not know for sure and was hoping Solar Steve might add his opinion as he cleans a lot of installations - though I am looking to target domestic.
Just to pick up on the last bit of your post, I intended to target domestic, but found the market very small. It's good as a bit extra, if you only want an odd extra job. If you want it as a bolt-on, you need to expand your horizons a little. ;)
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Hi Steve.
Yes the scientific answer would be quite nice. Thanks.
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Just a quote from a manufacturer of self cleaning glass!
Tips for Maintaining Self-Cleaning Glass
The coating on Pilkington Activ™ self-cleaning glass products needs approximately 5 - 7 days to energise. After this period it continues to work even on cloudy days and during the night, washing away dirt whenever it rains. However, there are certain circumstances in which a little basic maintenance on self-cleaning glass may be necessary.
Heavy Dirt Deposits
The coating on self-cleaning glass normally breaks down even the heaviest deposits of organic dirt in time - but if the surface is so dirty that daylight cannot reach the glass, the self-cleaning action will not take effect. In such extreme cases, you will need to clean the glass with warm soapy water and a soft cloth. After a few days the self-cleaning process will have re-activated.
Maintaining During Dry Spells
During very dry spells you may need to speed the window cleaning process up as there will have been no rain to wash loosened dirt away. This is easily done by simply hosing the glass down with water - which should remove most traces of dirt. Note: organic dirt will not necessarily be removed by hosing, so some dirt may still be seen when the glass dries after the hosing treatment.
Maintaining the Coating
Tests have shown that the special coating on the self-cleaning glass will not flake off or discolour, but it will be affected if the surface itself is damaged; for example, by pointed objects or abrasive cleaners. For this reason, ink or paint must be carefully removed from the self-cleaning glass using a soft cloth and methylated spirits and never with harsh scouring glass cleaning agents, steel wool, razor blades or anything else that would scratch the glass.
>Download a list of approved window cleaning agents that can be used in association with self-cleaning glass.
The greatest feature of Pilkington Activ™ self-cleaning glass is that it relies on the forces of nature to keep your windows looking beautiful. When it comes to glass cleaning, it's easy to see why more and more home owners are turning to Pilkington Activ™ self-cleaning glass to keep their homes looking at their very best.
Download these maintenance guidelines for more information on how to keep your self-cleaning glass in peak condition.
so even the people that make the self cleaning glass says that you do need to clean it at times!
to sum it up, if the light cant get to the glass, like under bird muck, the self cleaning glass wont take effect and wont come off. this bird muck can cause a hot spot on the solar panel and could cause that solar panel to burn out, which in turn puts a bit more strain on the others.
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It's just a name; it doesn't mean they never need cleaning or they clean themselves.
We've got a self cleaning glass conny roof and it still needs cleaning but it's much easier to do and does stay cleaner.
And don't feel that Sealskinz gloves are a rip-off because they're not made out of Seal. I know his face looks like they could be, but no singer was hurt in the making of this product.
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another thing you can ask customers is to check there warranty,
some warranties say that cleaning has to be done to keep the warranty valid.
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This was a test strip cleaned for a client to see if it was viable to have the panels cleaned.
The result speaks for itself......
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p253/marcusnorton/IMAG0316.jpg)
That was cleaned 2 Months after the installation
This pic was before cleaning...
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p253/marcusnorton/IMG_3523.jpg)
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This was a test strip cleaned for a client to see if it was viable to have the panels cleaned.
The result speaks for itself......
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p253/marcusnorton/IMAG0316.jpg)
That was cleaned 2 Months after the installation
This pic was before cleaning...
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p253/marcusnorton/IMG_3523.jpg)
On the top pic is it the first 2 panels that was cleaned, im on my BlackBerry PlayBook at the minute and can't see it well,
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Top pic, second row of panels top to bottom :)
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Top pic, second row of panels top to bottom :)
Oh right, they are nice and shiny where the others are dull
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another thing you can ask customers is to check there warranty,
some warranties say that cleaning has to be done to keep the warranty valid.
You been memorising our website again? ;) :D
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another thing you can ask customers is to check there warranty,
some warranties say that cleaning has to be done to keep the warranty valid.
You been memorising our website again? ;) :D
Lol not been on your website I don't think. ???
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Hi Steve.
Yes the scientific answer would be quite nice. Thanks.
DISCLAIMER: Do not read if you are not interested in solar panel cleaning (cos this might get boring!) or if you are just gonna argue with me at the end! ;D
There are various types of glass, which is made in a whole host of ways. Some has a very rough finish, some has a very smooth finish. All look the same to the naked eye, but under a microscope, they look completely different.
Dirt accumulates on glass at a microscopic level to begin with, then gathers to the point where we can see it.
Self cleaning glass is either hydrophobic, meaning the water beads on it or it is hydrophilic, meaning the water sheets on the glass. Hydrophobic glass needs a very high static water contact angle in order to be self-cleaning effectively. Solar panels are hardly, if ever laid at this angle. So although the glass itself is self-cleaning and has the capability of being self cleaning, the angle it is laid at is often incorrect for the scientific process of self-cleaning to happen.
Why does hydrophobic glass not work?
To make glass hydrophobic, waxes or polymers need to be applied, which is a timely and costly process. The finish is often hazy which makes it unsuitable for the majority of windows.
What is hydrophilic glass?
Hydrophilic glass is coated with Titania which enables sunlight to chemically break down the dirt and then the rain washes it away. So, hydrophilic glass is the stuff to use then eh? No.
Why does hydrophilic glass not work?
It again is costly, which has held it back from commercial use. Secondly, the cleaning is a two stage process. You need photocatalysis and hydrophilicity to be present for the self-cleaning process to be activated. In order to accelerate both processes, university scientists are trying to develop substances to do just that. The technology is very much in its infancy and good quality products are at least 5 years from the market place.
It is the development of such products, specifically in the field of solar panels which we hope to shortly be involved in with some Welsh universities.
To conclude, there is self-cleaning glass on the market. However, it's functional use in solar panels is limited at best, which is great news for all of us! :)
Hope that gives a satisfactory answer to the question dd. :)
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Hi Steve
Thanks. I do not suppose you know what angle the roof/panel needs to be at for the self cleaning technology to work well?
Looking at it unscientifically the two customers I have had conversations with who told me they had self cleaning panels; I asked them if they were able to monitor the performance of the panels and both did. Both installations have been in place around a year and both said that they had not as yet noticed any drop in the efficiency of the panels. I am of course hoping this will changeover time.
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Hi Steve
Thanks. I do not suppose you know what angle the roof/panel needs to be at for the self cleaning technology to work well?
Looking at it unscientifically the two customers I have had conversations with who told me they had self cleaning panels; I asked them if they were able to monitor the performance of the panels and both did. Both installations have been in place around a year and both said that they had not as yet noticed any drop in the efficiency of the panels. I am of course hoping this will changeover time.
The angle is the minimum needed for water run off.
A year is no time for the panels to be cleaned because they will be coated straight from the factory. The coating wears off over time and the dirt will accumulate.
That's why spc has been a slow burn for our company. I knew they would not need cleaning within the first year or two, so used that time to gen up. Glad I did, because now I know what is up against and can talk simply to a residential client, a bit more about the numbers with commercials and a bit more scientifically with the university scientists and who will be the developers of new products. For me, my interest in solar does not end with cleaning, but in the future of the technology too.
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Thanks Steve.
So just to be clear on what you are saying - the coating on the panels that makes them self-cleaning breaks down over time?
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Thanks Steve.
So just to be clear on what you are saying - the coating on the panels that makes them self-cleaning breaks down over time?
Some panels are coated in the same way that new windows are coated when they are sent out. It serves little other purpose than to make them look clean an shiny.
Some panels are coated to make them hydrophilic and hence, self cleaning. However, this coating breaks down over time.
Remember though that just because the panel has the coating and potential to be self cleaning, doesn't mean it is. The conditions need to be perfect for the chemical reaction to occur, which it rarely does.
:)
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OK. Thanks Steve.
Thanks also to everyone else who replied to this thread.
Best wishes, dd