Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: richywilts on March 14, 2013, 08:16:38 pm
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just chatting with someone today has any one used a backhander to win a decent contract
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I'd be very suprised if someone who's telling the truth admits to this...
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hows it going si not spoke for a while
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My son in law is a facilities manager for a big government concern and he tells me its common practice. Say no more. fact. If its not cash in an sub contract, its a holiday or fuel for the car or Tyres for private car, boose or a night out on the town.Anyone telling me different is jut trying to pull the wool.
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hows it going si not spoke for a while
All good up here Richy :) Give us a buzz if you're ever up this way bud 8)
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it is rife
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Money talks! ;)
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We allknow that it goes on, I think Richy may just be interested in how...
I may be wrong though Rich...
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to be honest i dont have a lot of commercial maybe its the reason why!!!
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Richy
The answer is a simple no, trying to give back handers can make you look like a slimey weasel and could do you more harm than good, be careful mate if you go down that route
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Richy
The answer is a simple no, trying to give back handers can make you look like a slimey weasel and could do you more harm than good, be careful mate if you go down that route
100% agree.
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;D
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Richy
The answer is a simple no, trying to give back handers can make you look like a slimey weasel and could do you more harm than good, be careful mate if you go down that route
Depends if the man in charge asks for one.
Hey window cleaner,give me a drink and you can have this contract
No,you slimey weasel,that's not how I roll,I'm morally grounded.
Personally,I'd pop straight down the cashpoint
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back handers .
my wife or friend knows the boss .etc .
at the end of the day they have the contracts we dont .
iv never been in that position .yet .
but if i had any friends in high places .i would think about it .
mind u it would be nice to have a few freinds ;D ;D :'(
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thats 2 slimy weasels then ;D
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me .you yeah
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I can see a song in this ;D
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In the past, yup, I've done that.
It goes on, has gone on in the past and will go on in the future.
It's better known by it's common name of 'marriage'.
She agrees to saying two words at the right time which are 'I do' and you agree to pay for it for the rest of your life. ;D
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I once gave someone a back hander for wotking on my patch be warned!
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Backhanders is a very negative term. I have never done it.
HOWEVER, I have in the past luncheoned with prospective clients in good quality restaurants with fine wines etc, and this has to have swung the deal in my favour. In certain industries, it is what is EXPECTED. Deals will be done this day in restaurants, hotels, on golf courses etc. Networking with incentives is a great way of getting work. Is that not why we all have a business card and a T & E column in our books? ;D
The end result that you get the work, is the same. But how you view and go about it can either be done in a slimy, underhanded way or in an open and very professional way. :)
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It's better known by it's common name of 'marriage'.
You give your wife a backhander?
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It's interesting how some are able to moralize a backhander into good business.
IMO there is a difference between incentives and bribes.
An incentive such as a meal while discussing a contract is a small price for networking. It is if you like a marketing gamble and as such goes in the books.
A £1000 cash brown envelope for a £50k contract to the contracts manager is both immoral and illegal. I guess that doesn't appear on the books.
Leaving the morality aside. If the contracts manager and yourself are prepared to do something illegal your business has not got a solid foundation and no one has any reason to ever trust you again.
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I do a few courts who my best mate is a contracts manager for the cleaning side of things. I get 6k a year from them but to get the job at my price i give my mate £200 each time i do them which is 3 courts 6 times a year. I didnt do it to get the job but the way i see it is if i keep him happy he will keep me happy withough listning to cheaper quotes etc. £600 to earn 6k works fine for me.
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I do a few courts who my best mate is a contracts manager for the cleaning side of things. I get 6k a year from them but to get the job at my price i give my mate £200 each time i do them which is 3 courts 6 times a year. I didnt do it to get the job but the way i see it is if i keep him happy he will keep me happy withough listning to cheaper quotes etc. £600 to earn 6k works fine for me.
Do you put the £600 through the books?
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I do a few courts who my best mate is a contracts manager for the cleaning side of things. I get 6k a year from them but to get the job at my price i give my mate £200 each time i do them which is 3 courts 6 times a year. I didnt do it to get the job but the way i see it is if i keep him happy he will keep me happy withough listning to cheaper quotes etc. £600 to earn 6k works fine for me.
Do you put the £600 through the books?
Yes i put everything through the books as get audited quite reguly as was done for a lot of money last year by hmrc for not declari g everything properly. its all in the price of the job its what i shave off for him. I give it to him cash obviously but i take the hit for it myself from the job. Still well quids in so not a problem!.
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It's interesting how some are able to moralize a backhander into good business.
IMO there is a difference between incentives and bribes.
An incentive such as a meal while discussing a contract is a small price for networking. It is if you like a marketing gamble and as such goes in the books.
A £1000 cash brown envelope for a £50k contract to the contracts manager is both immoral and illegal. I guess that doesn't appear on the books.
Leaving the morality aside. If the contracts manager and yourself are prepared to do something illegal your business has not got a solid foundation and no one has any reason to ever trust you again.
I wholeheartedly agree with the above. I never have and never would give someone a bung. Incentives are the way to go.
An Arabic proverb which I apply to my business and my life is: "He who commits no crime by day, fears not a knock at he door by night." :)
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I do a few courts who my best mate is a contracts manager for the cleaning side of things. I get 6k a year from them but to get the job at my price i give my mate £200 each time i do them which is 3 courts 6 times a year. I didnt do it to get the job but the way i see it is if i keep him happy he will keep me happy withough listning to cheaper quotes etc. £600 to earn 6k works fine for me.
Do you put the £600 through the books?
Yes i put everything through the books as get audited quite reguly as was done for a lot of money last year by hmrc for not declari g everything properly. its all in the price of the job its what i shave off for him. I give it to him cash obviously but i take the hit for it myself from the job. Still well quids in so not a problem!.
OK, excuse my stupidity here ;D, Do you therefore pay tax on his £600 or do you get a reciept for it and 'put it through the books'?
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I do a few courts who my best mate is a contracts manager for the cleaning side of things. I get 6k a year from them but to get the job at my price i give my mate £200 each time i do them which is 3 courts 6 times a year. I didnt do it to get the job but the way i see it is if i keep him happy he will keep me happy withough listning to cheaper quotes etc. £600 to earn 6k works fine for me.
Do you put the £600 through the books?
Yes i put everything through the books as get audited quite reguly as was done for a lot of money last year by hmrc for not declari g everything properly. its all in the price of the job its what i shave off for him. I give it to him cash obviously but i take the hit for it myself from the job. Still well quids in so not a problem!.
OK, excuse my stupidity here ;D, Do you therefore pay tax on his £600 or do you get a reciept for it and 'put it through the books'?
I pay the tax on it and take the hit. i like the setup and arrangment we have on it as i get to keep the contract as my mate will keep saying how happy he is with the window cleaners and that we always provide the best quote. Happy days.
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Does your mate not worry that it may go against his terms of contract?
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I do a few courts who my best mate is a contracts manager for the cleaning side of things. I get 6k a year from them but to get the job at my price i give my mate £200 each time i do them which is 3 courts 6 times a year. I didnt do it to get the job but the way i see it is if i keep him happy he will keep me happy withough listning to cheaper quotes etc. £600 to earn 6k works fine for me.
Do you put the £600 through the books?
Yes i put everything through the books as get audited quite reguly as was done for a lot of money last year by hmrc for not declari g everything properly. its all in the price of the job its what i shave off for him. I give it to him cash obviously but i take the hit for it myself from the job. Still well quids in so not a problem!.
OK, excuse my stupidity here ;D, Do you therefore pay tax on his £600 or do you get a reciept for it and 'put it through the books'?
I pay the tax on it and take the hit. i like the setup and arrangment we have on it as i get to keep the contract as my mate will keep saying how happy he is with the window cleaners and that we always provide the best quote. Happy days.
It's a brave man that will put down in black and white on an open forum tales of bribery and corruption.. Only saying. ;)
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In politics its call lobbying, In business its an incentive, Pro bono with attorneys, back streets its a bung some might call it a sweetener, its still the same stuff. No matter in which wrapping you put it. Immoral, I dont think so.ILLEGAL it is.But its done .
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In politics its call lobbying, In business its an incentive, Pro bono with attorneys, back streets its a bung some might call it a sweetener, its still the same stuff. No matter in which wrapping you put it. Immoral, I dont think so.ILLEGAL it is.But its done .
How can it be morally right but illegal? Are you saying it should not be illegal? Or are you referring just to your own view of morality?
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I think it would think what you call immoral is it not. There is many chaps that do back handers and dont think anything of it. I dont think you should put words in my mouth as I am able to speak for myself.
Parking on the pavement is illegal, but I dont think its immoral. Thank you your honour.
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If you do the courts 6 times per year, and give your mate £200 per visit. Isnt that £1200 per year or am i missing something? ???
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I think it would think what you call immoral is it not. There is many chaps that do back handers and dont think anything of it. I dont think you should put words in my mouth as I am able to speak for myself.
Parking on the pavement is illegal, but I dont think its immoral. Thank you your honour.
Just trying to understand your point of view. Maybe we differ on what morality is.
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I think it would think what you call immoral is it not. There is many chaps that do back handers and dont think anything of it. I dont think you should put words in my mouth as I am able to speak for myself.
Parking on the pavement is illegal, but I dont think its immoral. Thank you your honour.
Just trying to understand your point of view. Maybe we differ on what morality is.
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going 35mph in a 30 is illegal,but im sure plenty of the do gooders on here have done so. dont have double standards unless you have never done anything illegal. anyone that says different is a liar
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I do a few courts who my best mate is a contracts manager for the cleaning side of things. I get 6k a year from them but to get the job at my price i give my mate £200 each time i do them which is 3 courts 6 times a year. I didnt do it to get the job but the way i see it is if i keep him happy he will keep me happy withough listning to cheaper quotes etc. £600 to earn 6k works fine for me.
Do you put the £600 thro
ugh the books?
Yes i put everything through the books as get audited quite reguly as was done for a lot of money last year by hmrc for not declari g everything properly. its all in the price of the job its what i shave off for him. I give it to him cash obviously but i take the hit for it myself from the job. Still well quids in so not a problem!.
OK, excuse my stupidity here ;D, Do you therefore pay tax on his £600 or do you get a reciept for it and 'put it through the books'?
if hes paid tax on his earnings hes free to do what he likes with his 600. stop questioning how people run their business,its none of yours
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If you do the courts 6 times per year, and give your mate £200 per visit. Isnt that £1200 per year or am i missing something? ???
Yes your correct it should be 6 courts 3 times a year. My bad.
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I do a few courts who my best mate is a contracts manager for the cleaning side of things. I get 6k a year from them but to get the job at my price i give my mate £200 each time i do them which is 3 courts 6 times a year. I didnt do it to get the job but the way i see it is if i keep him happy he will keep me happy withough listning to cheaper quotes etc. £600 to earn 6k works fine for me.
Do you put the £600 through the books?
Yes i put everything through the books as get audited quite reguly as was done for a lot of money last year by hmrc for not declari g everything properly. its all in the price of the job its what i shave off for him. I give it to him cash obviously but i take the hit for it myself from the job. Still well quids in so not a problem!.
OK, excuse my stupidity here ;D, Do you therefore pay tax on his £600 or do you get a reciept for it and 'put it through the books'?
I pay the tax on it and take the hit. i like the setup and arrangment we have on it as i get to keep the contract as my mate will keep saying how happy he is with the window cleaners and that we always provide the best quote. Happy days.
It's a brave man that will put down in black and white on an open forum tales of bribery and corruption.. Only saying. ;)
Bribery and corruption?? Get a grip man i clean The windows ffs, i see it as an open door that wont shut on me for the te being. I replied to a thread on a window cleaning forum that i pay tax on the money. How will my mate get in trouble if he wont get found out??.
Im not a brave man im just honest about things. End of the day money talks!.
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going 35mph in a 30 is illegal,but im sure plenty of the do gooders on here have done so. dont have double standards unless you have never done anything illegal. anyone that says different is a liar
That's an interesting moral argument Luther, how do you feel about the scale of behaviour?
Is going a touch over the speed limit equal to a £1000 bribe?
Is doing 35 in a 30 zone equal to violent crime? Do I have double standards if condemn one and not the other? Do I have double standards if I do the lesser but condemn the greater?
If I'm happy to break the speed limit by 5mph are my morals shot to pieces?
Generally in life punishment for wrong is comensurate with the wrongdoing which indicates a scale of gravity of wrongdoing.
Can a person not have an opinion unless they are faultless?
The argument you state above is weak and generally, although probably not in this case, made when the person in the wrong wants to deflect attention from their actions.
If I go over the speed limit I must accept the consequences which in all likelyhood will be at most 3 points. It may or may not affect my life.
If I get caught accepting or offering a bribe and it goes public my reputation as a business will be forever damaged. It may or may not affect my life but it will affect my reputation. The question of morality comes in when my actions affect other people, an honest business loosing out to backhanders for example, or a company paying over the odds as the process of bidding has been corrupted.
This is an interesting debate and in my opinion filters out the honest from the perfidious.
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I do a few courts who my best mate is a contracts manager for the cleaning side of things. I get 6k a year from them but to get the job at my price i give my mate £200 each time i do them which is 3 courts 6 times a year. I didnt do it to get the job but the way i see it is if i keep him happy he will keep me happy withough listning to cheaper quotes etc. £600 to earn 6k works fine for me.
Do you put the £600 thro
ugh the books?
Yes i put everything through the books as get audited quite reguly as was done for a lot of money last year by hmrc for not declari g everything properly. its all in the price of the job its what i shave off for him. I give it to him cash obviously but i take the hit for it myself from the job. Still well quids in so not a problem!.
OK, excuse my stupidity here ;D, Do you therefore pay tax on his £600 or do you get a reciept for it and 'put it through the books'?
if hes paid tax on his earnings hes free to do what he likes with his 600. stop questioning how people run their business,its none of yours
I'll ask any question I like, no-one has to respond.
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How can it be morally right but illegal?
The laws an ass?
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How can it be morally right but illegal?
The laws an ass?
It can be and in some cases things that are illegal should not be, but I was exploring why the poster felt that bribes were morally ok.
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commensurate
Good word.
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I take them for a ride on my Sunseeker.
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How can it be morally right but illegal?
The laws an ass?
until its on your side
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How can it be morally right but illegal?
The laws an ass?
It can be and in some cases things that are illegal should not be, but I was exploring why the poster felt that bribes were morally ok.
Because his morals arent what you might expect?
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going 35mph in a 30 is illegal,but im sure plenty of the do gooders on here have done so. dont have double standards unless you have never done anything illegal. anyone that says different is a liar
That's an interesting moral argument Luther, how do you feel about the scale of behaviour?
Is going a touch over the speed limit equal to a £1000 bribe?
Is doing 35 in a 30 zone equal to violent crime? Do I have double standards if condemn one and not the other? Do I have double standards if I do the lesser but condemn the greater?
If I'm happy to break the speed limit by 5mph are my morals shot to pieces?
Generally in life punishment for wrong is comensurate with the wrongdoing which indicates a scale of gravity of wrongdoing.
Can a person not have an opinion unless they are faultless?
The argument you state above is weak and generally, although probably not in this case, made when the person in the wrong wants to deflect attention from their actions.
If I go over the speed limit I must accept the consequences which in all likelyhood will be at most 3 points. It may or may not affect my life.
If I get caught accepting or offering a bribe and it goes public my reputation as a business will be forever damaged. It may or may not affect my life but it will affect my reputation. The question of morality comes in when my actions affect other people, an honest business loosing out to backhanders for example, or a company paying over the odds as the process of bidding has been corrupted.
This is an interesting debate and in my opinion filters out the honest from the perfidious.
It has nothing to do with dishonesty. I clean businesses and lose the cost of the owners house clean within my invoice,I also clean business owners houses for free as a thank you. That doesn't make me dishonest or a hypocrite. I'm sure if a sweetener to gain a contract was found out it wouldn't go public,we're window cleaners ffs,so don't paint yourself up to be anything more.
Who said the company is paying over the odds,not all contracts are won by price. I won the contract for Southampton football stadium because the other bidder offered to do the first clean for free,and the operations manager said there's no such thing as a free lunch,somewhere along the line they would pay for that free clean.
You carry on in your own superior world. Whether cleaning off ladders or having the best wfp system,doesn't make any of us better than the other. Your blinkered vision of how commerce and vast contracts are won is nieve.
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I thought that the saints ground
Was looking a little rough lol ;D
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I thought that the saints ground
Was looking a little rough lol ;D
It is now,i dont have the contract anymore. A new operations manager took over and took a back hander. And that's the truth haha
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I thought that the saints ground
Was looking a little rough lol ;D
It is now,i dont have the contract anymore. A new operations manager took over and took a back hander. And that's the truth haha
HAHA THATS CLASS
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Richy
The answer is a simple no, trying to give back handers can make you look like a slimey weasel and could do you more harm than good, be careful mate if you go down that route
[/quote 100% agree.
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Thought this might be of interest.
http://www.sjdaccountancy.com/contractor-expenses-faqs
You can entertain clients, but there are rules.
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going 35mph in a 30 is illegal,but im sure plenty of the do gooders on here have done so. dont have double standards unless you have never done anything illegal. anyone that says different is a liar
That's an interesting moral argument Luther, how do you feel about the scale of behaviour?
Is going a touch over the speed limit equal to a £1000 bribe?
Is doing 35 in a 30 zone equal to violent crime? Do I have double standards if condemn one and not the other? Do I have double standards if I do the lesser but condemn the greater?
If I'm happy to break the speed limit by 5mph are my morals shot to pieces?
Generally in life punishment for wrong is comensurate with the wrongdoing which indicates a scale of gravity of wrongdoing.
Can a person not have an opinion unless they are faultless?
The argument you state above is weak and generally, although probably not in this case, made when the person in the wrong wants to deflect attention from their actions.
If I go over the speed limit I must accept the consequences which in all likelyhood will be at most 3 points. It may or may not affect my life.
If I get caught accepting or offering a bribe and it goes public my reputation as a business will be forever damaged. It may or may not affect my life but it will affect my reputation. The question of morality comes in when my actions affect other people, an honest business loosing out to backhanders for example, or a company paying over the odds as the process of bidding has been corrupted.
This is an interesting debate and in my opinion filters out the honest from the perfidious.
It has nothing to do with dishonesty. I clean businesses and lose the cost of the owners house clean within my invoice,I also clean business owners houses for free as a thank you. That doesn't make me dishonest or a hypocrite. I'm sure if a sweetener to gain a contract was found out it wouldn't go public,we're window cleaners ffs,so don't paint yourself up to be anything more.
Who said the company is paying over the odds,not all contracts are won by price. I won the contract for Southampton football stadium because the other bidder offered to do the first clean for free,and the operations manager said there's no such thing as a free lunch,somewhere along the line they would pay for that free clean.
You carry on in your own superior world. Whether cleaning off ladders or having the best wfp system,doesn't make any of us better than the other. Your blinkered vision of how commerce and vast contracts are won is nieve.
Sorry Luther I didn't mean to rattle you neither did I ask you to explain yourself.
Forums are like pubs. You get into a conversation and it goes one way or the other. You can chip in or leave.
I'm interested in moral conundrums.
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going 35mph in a 30 is illegal,but im sure plenty of the do gooders on here have done so. dont have double standards unless you have never done anything illegal. anyone that says different is a liar
That's an interesting moral argument Luther, how do you feel about the scale of behaviour?
Is going a touch over the speed limit equal to a £1000 bribe?
Is doing 35 in a 30 zone equal to violent crime? Do I have double standards if condemn one and not the other? Do I have double standards if I do the lesser but condemn the greater?
If I'm happy to break the speed limit by 5mph are my morals shot to pieces?
Generally in life punishment for wrong is comensurate with the wrongdoing which indicates a scale of gravity of wrongdoing.
Can a person not have an opinion unless they are faultless?
The argument you state above is weak and generally, although probably not in this case, made when the person in the wrong wants to deflect attention from their actions.
If I go over the speed limit I must accept the consequences which in all likelyhood will be at most 3 points. It may or may not affect my life.
If I get caught accepting or offering a bribe and it goes public my reputation as a business will be forever damaged. It may or may not affect my life but it will affect my reputation. The question of morality comes in when my actions affect other people, an honest business loosing out to backhanders for example, or a company paying over the odds as the process of bidding has been corrupted.
This is an interesting debate and in my opinion filters out the honest from the perfidious.
It has nothing to do with dishonesty. I clean businesses and lose the cost of the owners house clean within my invoice,I also clean business owners houses for free as a thank you. That doesn't make me dishonest or a hypocrite. I'm sure if a sweetener to gain a contract was found out it wouldn't go public,we're window cleaners ffs,so don't paint yourself up to be anything more.
Who said the company is paying over the odds,not all contracts are won by price. I won the contract for Southampton football stadium because the other bidder offered to do the first clean for free,and the operations manager said there's no such thing as a free lunch,somewhere along the line they would pay for that free clean.
You carry on in your own superior world. Whether cleaning off ladders or having the best wfp system,doesn't make any of us better than the other. Your blinkered vision of how commerce and vast contracts are won is nieve.
Sorry Luther I didn't mean to rattle you neither did I ask you to explain yourself.
Forums are like pubs. You get into a conversation and it goes one way or the other. You can chip in or leave.
I'm interested in moral conundrums.
You're the type that sits in a pub on his own. Who,in all honesty would want to have a drink with you,you're boring
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Thought this might be of interest.
http://www.sjdaccountancy.com/contractor-expenses-faqs
You can entertain clients, but there are rules.
Nope. Might interest you but certainly didn't interest me.
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going 35mph in a 30 is illegal,but im sure plenty of the do gooders on here have done so. dont have double standards unless you have never done anything illegal. anyone that says different is a liar
That's an interesting moral argument Luther, how do you feel about the scale of behaviour?
Is going a touch over the speed limit equal to a £1000 bribe?
Is doing 35 in a 30 zone equal to violent crime? Do I have double standards if condemn one and not the other? Do I have double standards if I do the lesser but condemn the greater?
If I'm happy to break the speed limit by 5mph are my morals shot to pieces?
Generally in life punishment for wrong is comensurate with the wrongdoing which indicates a scale of gravity of wrongdoing.
Can a person not have an opinion unless they are faultless?
The argument you state above is weak and generally, although probably not in this case, made when the person in the wrong wants to deflect attention from their actions.
If I go over the speed limit I must accept the consequences which in all likelyhood will be at most 3 points. It may or may not affect my life.
If I get caught accepting or offering a bribe and it goes public my reputation as a business will be forever damaged. It may or may not affect my life but it will affect my reputation. The question of morality comes in when my actions affect other people, an honest business loosing out to backhanders for example, or a company paying over the odds as the process of bidding has been corrupted.
This is an interesting debate and in my opinion filters out the honest from the perfidious.
It has nothing to do with dishonesty. I clean businesses and lose the cost of the owners house clean within my invoice,I also clean business owners houses for free as a thank you. That doesn't make me dishonest or a hypocrite. I'm sure if a sweetener to gain a contract was found out it wouldn't go public,we're window cleaners ffs,so don't paint yourself up to be anything more.
Who said the company is paying over the odds,not all contracts are won by price. I won the contract for Southampton football stadium because the other bidder offered to do the first clean for free,and the operations manager said there's no such thing as a free lunch,somewhere along the line they would pay for that free clean.
You carry on in your own superior world. Whether cleaning off ladders or having the best wfp system,doesn't make any of us better than the other. Your blinkered vision of how commerce and vast contracts are won is nieve.
Sorry Luther I didn't mean to rattle you neither did I ask you to explain yourself.
Forums are like pubs. You get into a conversation and it goes one way or the other. You can chip in or leave.
I'm interested in moral conundrums.
You're the type that sits in a pub on his own. Who,in all honesty would want to have a drink with you,you're boring
;D Classic!