Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: telfordwindowclnr on March 10, 2013, 07:51:02 pm
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Just wondering if anyone is going to the solar event tomorrow at the Liberty Stadium in Swansea? We could meet for a coffee. :)
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Nice stadium, you might want to sample the delights in 'Studio 95' while you're in the area ;D
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So the event is today! Up at 4.30am! On the 5:40 train now.
This event has over 120 installers from across Wales attending as well as some guy from the National Solar Centre, among others. An ideal place to network. :)
It will look at how the PV industry will develop in coming years and especially how maintenance will become a larger part of the industry.
Any of you guys have any thoughts as to how solar panel cleaning will develop in your business?
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Yes
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Yes
;D ;D Nice!
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Ive heard theyve got some really good speakers on at the university ;)
would maybe havegone if a little closer.
hows it going to develop .... well I can only see it becoming more of an add on for me and I think the fact for a normal house you need a long pole of over say 40feet it means quite an investment so hopefully prices will stay at a good rate for us.
will prob push me into ipaf training as well along with a H&S course .... cscs card etc so can go for some larger stuff (not in deeside though ;D)
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i think it would be possible to invent a device that cleans them automatically and would not costmuch to install
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I think it won't take long before people realise cleaning them has very little effect and what a waste of money it is.
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I think it won't take long before people realise cleaning them has very little effect and what a waste of money it is.
Interesting. Do you have case studies to back up your assertion? :)
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Ive heard theyve got some really good speakers on at the university ;)
would maybe havegone if a little closer.
hows it going to develop .... well I can only see it becoming more of an add on for me and I think the fact for a normal house you need a long pole of over say 40feet it means quite an investment so hopefully prices will stay at a good rate for us.
will prob push me into ipaf training as well along with a H&S course .... cscs card etc so can go for some larger stuff (not in deeside though ;D)
The speakers were among the best I've heard Ian! IPAF is brilliant because you can take it into windows, gutters fascias etc. h & s course is a good idea too. Learned today that about 2GW will be installed this year alone. It won't be in the domestic market, but the bulk is in commercial. There will be upto 800MW installed by the end of this month. They are pushing it through quick due to a change in the ROC. Go for the big stuff, but yes, not in Deeside! ;D
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you going to the cleaning show steve ??
if so which day?
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I think it won't take long before people realise cleaning them has very little effect and what a waste of money it is.
Interesting. Do you have case studies to back up your assertion? :)
Yep, I cleaned my own panels last spring/summer. I picked two consecutive near identical cloudless days and cleaned them at mid day on the second day, downloaded the output and printed off the graph. The blip could be seen on the graph when they were cleaned but the improvement in output was minimal. I did post it on another forum at the time.
Might make a difference on a massive installation but on a residential one very little. not only that but it won't stay clean for long during the summer if no rain falls to wash the dirt away.
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I think it won't take long before people realise cleaning them has very little effect and what a waste of money it is.
Interesting. Do you have case studies to back up your assertion? :)
Yep, I cleaned my own panels last spring/summer. I picked two consecutive near identical cloudless days and cleaned them at mid day on the second day, downloaded the output and printed off the graph. The blip could be seen on the graph when they were cleaned but the improvement in output was minimal. I did post it on another forum at the time.
Might make a difference on a massive installation but on a residential one very little. not only that but it won't stay clean for long during the summer if no rain falls to wash the dirt away.
How long were the panels installed for before cleaning?
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you going to the cleaning show steve ??
if so which day?
I won't be ronnie. I'm focussing on the solar side of things as folks know. I'm going to be working with swansea university after some discussions from the seminar today. They want us to carry out some cleaning for them on various PV installations in order to get some of the first 'real life' research for the % benefits of spc. Up til now, the UK studies have been carried out under controlled circumstances. So this will be a first. They have the best equipment available and are designing new tech for monitoring PV output. They can also look at the panels on a microscopic level before and after cleaning, which is very exciting. The university knows the benefits are there, we just want real time, accurate figures. Most of the stuff at the mo is from USA so some UK figures would be great. ;D
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well done steve sounds interesting and will not do your company any harm at all, let us know how it goes and thanks for the quick payment.
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I think it won't take long before people realise cleaning them has very little effect and what a waste of money it is.
Interesting. Do you have case studies to back up your assertion? :)
Yep, I cleaned my own panels last spring/summer. I picked two consecutive near identical cloudless days and cleaned them at mid day on the second day, downloaded the output and printed off the graph. The blip could be seen on the graph when they were cleaned but the improvement in output was minimal. I did post it on another forum at the time.
Might make a difference on a massive installation but on a residential one very little. not only that but it won't stay clean for long during the summer if no rain falls to wash the dirt away.
How long were the panels installed for before cleaning?
About a year
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well done steve sounds interesting and will not do your company any harm at all, let us know how it goes and thanks for the quick payment.
I will mate. No worries about the payment. :)
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I think most domestic units have the facility to download the software and produce their own readings. I can tap into mine at any time and read the output and plot my own graphs of performance. the biggest problem is doing it scientifically - uv output can change with time of day, cloud cover etc. I've seen some fantastic claims on cleaners websites - probably bollox to be honest. I think I got about two percent increase in performance and that might have only lasted a few days depends on how fast the dust will fall again etc.
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I think it won't take long before people realise cleaning them has very little effect and what a waste of money it is.
Interesting. Do you have case studies to back up your assertion? :)
Yep, I cleaned my own panels last spring/summer. I picked two consecutive near identical cloudless days and cleaned them at mid day on the second day, downloaded the output and printed off the graph. The blip could be seen on the graph when they were cleaned but the improvement in output was minimal. I did post it on another forum at the time.
Might make a difference on a massive installation but on a residential one very little. not only that but it won't stay clean for long during the summer if no rain falls to wash the dirt away.
How long were the panels installed for before cleaning?
About a year
That will be why. When panels come from the factory, many have a protective coating on the glass. It takes a while for that to wear thin and for the dirt to accumulate. People started having panels installed about 3 years ago. It is only now that people are noticing a loss. If you leave your panels 3 years now before their next clean, you will notice they will be a lot dirtier. Then when you clean them, you will notice an increase in output.
It is the main reason spc has been a slow burn. But now, it is taking off big time.
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I think most domestic units have the facility to download the software and produce their own readings. I can tap into mine at any time and read the output and plot my own graphs of performance. the biggest problem is doing it scientifically - uv output can change with time of day, cloud cover etc. I've seen some fantastic claims on cleaners websites - probably bollox to be honest. I think I got about two percent increase in performance and that might have only lasted a few days depends on how fast the dust will fall again etc.
Domestic units can have the facility to monitor, but most people did not pay the extra money to do so when they had their panels fitted. Much of today's info at this seminar was aimed at frustrated PV installers who have have the guts dragged out of their industry. Now they are scratching their heads what they can do next. Experts there today were advising them that maintenance and monitoring is the way to ride out the current lull in the fitting side of things. They were advised to retro-fit monitoring systems to their previous customers and look at how to increase performance from the installed panels. A large part of which is cleaning.
Monitoring can take in to account the variables that you mentioned. Swansea uni spends tens on thousands on research, trying to squeeze an extra 0.5-1% efficiency from panels. I was asked by them to be a guest speaker today and did a PowerPoint presentation proving the benefits of spc with real life printouts, bar charts etc, from solar arrays we have cleaned. The professors there realised that cleaning has been severely underestimated and that's why they want to seriously pursue this avenue further. Some of the figures mentioned may sound outlandish, but if provable, you can't argue with them.
I agree that spc is very very circumstantial. Very few arrays are alike. Each will deteriorate at a different rate.
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i think it would be possible to invent a device that cleans them automatically and would not costmuch to install
Ive been looking for such an item for quite a while now Trevor. There is nowt I can find that is not in a prototype phase or comes in at a sensible price. If you find one please please let me know because there is a big market for it. :)
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So what kind of percentage increases have you come up with in the uk? What difference would it make on say a 3-4kw installation in the uk? How much is the price to clean ten panels and what benefits in monetary terms would a householder achieve?
You have to convince a householder that by spending say £50 every six months is going to give them a brilliant return.
Have you done that?
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Yes
I wasnt there, I was answering another question
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So what kind of percentage increases have you come up with in the uk? What difference would it make on say a 3-4kw installation in the uk? How much is the price to clean ten panels and what benefits in monetary terms would a householder achieve?
You have to convince a householder that by spending say £50 every six months is going to give them a brilliant return.
Have you done that?
There isn't a short answer to that. Figures vary. But we cleaned a 4KW system on a village hall last month. The installer was on site. He took a reading before we cleaned, and took another 30 mins later. It was a completely overcast day. The sun didn't burst forth after we cleaned it, but the second reading showed a 42ish% increase. That's a very good return.
£50 is too much to charge for a regular clean for a system that size.
We have done extensive number crunching and know we are where we should be price wise for residential and commercial.
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that's an unbelievable increase to be honest. I don't doubt what you are saying but if it's overcast anyway then doubling the performance might mean going from zero to one watt if you see what I mean.
The cleaning figure was plucked from the sky but the householder will want proof that they aren't wasting their money in my opinion. lets face it the kind who pay for their systems want to save money.
I would be more interested to know the difference in performance in mid day maximum sunshine, unless of course you want to 'massage' the figures.
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that's an unbelievable increase to be honest. I don't doubt what you are saying but if it's overcast anyway then doubling the performance might mean going from zero to one watt if you see what I mean.
The cleaning figure was plucked from the sky but the householder will want proof that they aren't wasting their money in my opinion. lets face it the kind who pay for their systems want to save money.
I would be more interested to know the difference in performance in mid day maximum sunshine, unless of course you want to 'massage' the figures.
You are entitled to your opinion. If it is it an 'unbelievable increase', you do doubt what I'm saying. The cleaning figure was not plucked from the sky. SMA inverters are high quality products and let us get direct comparisons like the one I highlighted.
No one has a vested interest in that system, it is not owned by a 'householder wanting proof they are not wasting their money'. It is a village hall.
It is impossible to massage figures, you have to lie. The read outs are the read outs.
It seems your vast experience of solar cleaning comes down to one array on your own house. Ours comes from cleaning thousands of panels on many sites. If I was a neutral reading this, I know who I think was more credible.
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No, you've missed my point completely. Because you took your reading on an overcast day your 4kw system would be barely producing anything so to nearly double the performance is easy. You can then tell your customers you increased the performance by nearly fifty percent. Fifty percent of bugger all still isn't much is it? See what I mean?
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Now if your 4kw system was producing 2kw on a blazing cloudless day and Super Steve turns up with his magic water and hey presto! My unit is producing 4kw - I'd be really impressed! A fifty percent increase at maximum is far more impressive than fifty percent more of a dribble.
I bet you don't have thousands of those on your books.
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i have a small system which works very well for me 8)
i tend to clean them every 4 to 6 months, dont seem to see any benefit to be honest.
i have cleaned them on cloudy and sunny days with flocked brushes and ro water .
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Now if your 4kw system was producing 2kw on a blazing cloudless day and Super Steve turns up with his magic water and hey presto! My unit is producing 4kw - I'd be really impressed! A fifty percent increase at maximum is far more impressive than fifty percent more of a dribble.
I bet you don't have thousands of those on your books.
On our blog in the next day or two will be an article about Howle Manor. It will have a copy of their solar generation everyday during February. Look at the figures, then look at the bar chart on the separate graphic. The day before we cleaned was overcast. the day we cleaned was overcast. the day after we cleaned was overcast. The 17th 18th & 19th, we had wall to wall sunshine. On the 26th, the day we cleaned, because the array was off, the panels hardly produced. On the 27th, an overcast day, the panels produced as much as the wall to wall sunshine days!
My weather postcasts can be checked with the MET office. We do that too for customers if they ask, to give them a like for like comparison so that we cannot fudge the figures.
I will let you know when it goes live and perhaps you can explain the percentage figures to me.
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Steve, i don't doubt your figures for a second and respect you for embracing the solar cleaning in the beginning. You've also put alot of work other peoples way which i find commendable.
But you sorta lost me on an previous thread about how to clean solar panels.
The conclusion i came to was the only difference in actually cleaning solar panels compared to a velux window for a wfp'er is in the risk assessment. Commercial site rules applicable where necessary, but the clean appears to be just the same.
I haven't seen anything yet that leads to a different conclusion to this.
Although in my view you stuck your neck out by putting forth reasons why there is more involved than turning up with wfp and pure water. Unfortunately, all this is still in its infancy and therefore i take all claims (not just yours) posted, with a pinch of salt.
I look forward to any uni study hitting the market though.
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I think you need to be very careful of putting sixty percent increase in performance on your website to be honest. Sixty percent in February is not the same as sixty percent in June. Maybe you need to discuss this with your university Professors because I think your claims could be very misleading.
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pinch of salt be buggered i have give you my honest user trials over the past 18 months
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pinch of salt be buggered i have give you my honest user trials over the past 18 months
i don't doubt it. But figures on their own mean nothing. Or can mean anything. Don't take offence. It's just how i see it.
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pinch of salt be buggered i have give you my honest user trials over the past 18 months
i don't doubt it. But figures on their own mean nothing. Or can mean anything. Don't take offence. It's just how i see it.
Hi Mark.
No offence taken ;D,
what i am trying to say is i dont seem to notice any difference whether i clean them or not.
i just do them because its easy for me to just pop over them ;D as i have the gear ;)
i have the software on my pc to measure output of pv installation
but does not make a great deal of difference in output , cleaned or not with ro water
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Mike, I've just cleaned mine (bloody freezing) and they are working at maximum now through the night! Try it. ;)
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Steve, i don't doubt your figures for a second and respect you for embracing the solar cleaning in the beginning. You've also put alot of work other peoples way which i find commendable.
But you sorta lost me on an previous thread about how to clean solar panels.
The conclusion i came to was the only difference in actually cleaning solar panels compared to a velux window for a wfp'er is in the risk assessment. Commercial site rules applicable where necessary, but the clean appears to be just the same.
I haven't seen anything yet that leads to a different conclusion to this.
Although in my view you stuck your neck out by putting forth reasons why there is more involved than turning up with wfp and pure water. Unfortunately, all this is still in its infancy and therefore i take all claims (not just yours) posted, with a pinch of salt.
I look forward to any uni study hitting the market though.
Thanks for your observations and honest opinions mark. On previous threads, I've been quite clear that anyone can physically clean a panel. That is not difficult at all. But providing 'the package' for large companies is different. Not everyone can do that part of it because they either lack the knowledge, confidence or drive. At the moment, and it is only at the moment, we have a USP and are maximising on that.
I already have my next USP but there is no need to discuss it or use it at the moment while we are still getting a great deal of interest in our current one. I spoke to the professors about it today and they are very keen for us to work together and to do research on this too. But that may take another year or two to test rigorously and to complete.
I mentioned twice in my presentation today about spc being in its infancy. A the moment, the technology we are using to clean them is very primitive compared to what it will be in 5 years. There is an awful lot of research being done by a couple of universities which will change the whole look of the solar industry in the UK in the next 2 years.
But for now, we work with what we've got and provide as professional service as we can. But times are changing very quickly with the technology and how we clean them will change too, so it is good to keep informed, which is all I'm trying to do.
I'm only on the forums to try to inform others too. This is a brilliant bolt on package for our businesses. Hour for hour i earn more on spc than anything else.
This is not the case with you personally Mark, but there seems to be an awful lot of resistance and almost an unwillingness to learn by some on here. That's fine, it's up to them. But those of us on here who do want to progress, learn, be educated and move into a very exciting industry with lots of potential, should not be hammered on every thread we start.
Instead of arguing the toss with those who know more than us on any given subject, it is far more productive to tap into their knowledge. That's why I went to the seminar today, to learn. And learn I did. ;D ;D
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Mike, I've just cleaned mine (bloody freezing) and they are working at maximum now through the night! Try it. ;)
lmao ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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elite mike, good man. ;D
Solar steve, fair play to you. :)
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elite mike, good man. ;D
Solar steve, fair play to you. :)
Cheers mate. :)
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steve if you can earn out of pv ,good on you 8)
i am not having a go, just giving my own experience .
i am more than happy to relieve my custys of their cash ;)
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steve if you can earn out of pv ,good on you 8)
i am not having a go, just giving my own experience .
i am more than happy to relieve my custys of their cash ;)
Good man! :)
I'll be honest, I don't mind if no one else does it! ;) It just seems a good opportunity to miss out on. :)
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Morning Steve, yes good luck. Saves us a lot of hassle if you do the hard stuff first.
I certainly don't know any more than you do and can only put my point across regarding my own system. Unfortunately the written word can be taken as more aggressive and negative than the spoken one.
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Unfortunately the written word can be taken as more aggressive and negative than the spoken one.
I agree completely mate. I do appreciate everyone's input though because it helps identify issues that need to be addressed. :)
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So what kind of percentage increases have you come up with in the uk? What difference would it make on say a 3-4kw installation in the uk? How much is the price to clean ten panels and what benefits in monetary terms would a householder achieve?
You have to convince a householder that by spending say £50 every six months is going to give them a brilliant return.
Have you done that?
There isn't a short answer to that. Figures vary. But we cleaned a 4KW system on a village hall last month. The installer was on site. He took a reading before we cleaned, and took another 30 mins later. It was a completely overcast day. The sun didn't burst forth after we cleaned it, but the second reading showed a 42ish% increase. That's a very good return.
£50 is too much to charge for a regular clean for a system that size.
We have done extensive number crunching and know we are where we should be price wise for residential and commercial.
ooopppsss ;) is £49 ok then £39 for a clean every 6 month ?
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So what kind of percentage increases have you come up with in the uk? What difference would it make on say a 3-4kw installation in the uk? How much is the price to clean ten panels and what benefits in monetary terms would a householder achieve?
You have to convince a householder that by spending say £50 every six months is going to give them a brilliant return.
Have you done that?
There isn't a short answer to that. Figures vary. But we cleaned a 4KW system on a village hall last month. The installer was on site. He took a reading before we cleaned, and took another 30 mins later. It was a completely overcast day. The sun didn't burst forth after we cleaned it, but the second reading showed a 42ish% increase. That's a very good return.
£50 is too much to charge for a regular clean for a system that size.
We have done extensive number crunching and know we are where we should be price wise for residential and commercial.
ooopppsss ;) is £49 ok then £39 for a clean every 6 month ?
;D Get whatever you can get mate. But if they begin to quiz you about ROI, you will be stuffed! ;D
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ROI blimey im just the
window solar panel cleaner ;)
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gonna tell them that solar steve says about 60% on a dull day ;) ;) ;D
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So what kind of percentage increases have you come up with in the uk? What difference would it make on say a 3-4kw installation in the uk? How much is the price to clean ten panels and what benefits in monetary terms would a householder achieve?
You have to convince a householder that by spending say £50 every six months is going to give them a brilliant return.
Have you done that?
There isn't a short answer to that. Figures vary. But we cleaned a 4KW system on a village hall last month. The installer was on site. He took a reading before we cleaned, and took another 30 mins later. It was a completely overcast day. The sun didn't burst forth after we cleaned it, but the second reading showed a 42ish% increase. That's a very good return.
£50 is too much to charge for a regular clean for a system that size.
We have done extensive number crunching and know we are where we should be price wise for residential and commercial.
ooopppsss ;) is £49 ok then £39 for a clean every 6 month ?
;D Get whatever you can get mate. But if they begin to quiz you about ROI, you will be stuffed! ;D
What price is correct for a 4kw system to give the customer good ROI?
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So what kind of percentage increases have you come up with in the uk? What difference would it make on say a 3-4kw installation in the uk? How much is the price to clean ten panels and what benefits in monetary terms would a householder achieve?
You have to convince a householder that by spending say £50 every six months is going to give them a brilliant return.
Have you done that?
There isn't a short answer to that. Figures vary. But we cleaned a 4KW system on a village hall last month. The installer was on site. He took a reading before we cleaned, and took another 30 mins later. It was a completely overcast day. The sun didn't burst forth after we cleaned it, but the second reading showed a 42ish% increase. That's a very good return.
£50 is too much to charge for a regular clean for a system that size.
We have done extensive number crunching and know we are where we should be price wise for residential and commercial.
ooopppsss ;) is £49 ok then £39 for a clean every 6 month ?
;D Get whatever you can get mate. But if they begin to quiz you about ROI, you will be stuffed! ;D
What price is correct for a 4kw system to give the customer good ROI?
It took me and installers hours to do the number crunching, so I ain't gonna stick it on a forum! :-X???You're gonna have to do the maths mate. Sorry. :-\
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What is ROI? Sorry, but I'm perplexed, or did I miss something in an earlier post?
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What is ROI? Sorry, but I'm perplexed, or did I miss something in an earlier post?
Return of Investment
Solar brought it up as he says that £50 for a 4kw system id too much.
If the customer makes £100 from the system after cleaning then charging them £50 per 6 months give ZERO ROI
I assume that the Price you can charge to still give the customer good ROI is lower than most window cleaners would do them for.
I ask because I did the math last year based on industry expectations of the improvement and the average household system. I couldn't honestly say that they were loosing that much by not having them cleaned. We are not in a high dust or grime area and I didn't want to lie to get work so I pulled the marketing.
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http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/should-you-spring-clean-your-solar.html?m=1
Flat panels next to a desert should be cleaned but tilted panels is a Northern European country rain is sufficient.
That said if anyone can make money for doing something unnecessary then go for it!
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Thanks for the reply Sunshine. Now you have added a little more to my knowledge and it's enlightening to have a more rounded out view.
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What is ROI? Sorry, but I'm perplexed, or did I miss something in an earlier post?
Return of Investment
Solar brought it up as he says that £50 for a 4kw system id too much.
If the customer makes £100 from the system after cleaning then charging them £50 per 6 months give ZERO ROI
I assume that the Price you can charge to still give the customer good ROI is lower than most window cleaners would do them for.
I ask because I did the math last year based on industry expectations of the improvement and the average household system. I couldn't honestly say that they were loosing that much by not having them cleaned. We are not in a high dust or grime area and I didn't want to lie to get work so I pulled the marketing.
All of your post is completely correct, but industry expectations were very conservative. They are a proving to be a lot lower than real-life increase in output.
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http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/should-you-spring-clean-your-solar.html?m=1
Flat panels next to a desert should be cleaned but tilted panels is a Northern European country rain is sufficient.
That said if anyone can make money for doing something unnecessary then go for it!
;) Good post. ;)
Only trouble is, there is a huge German solar panel cleaning industry. Second only to USA. The USA and Germany are light years (geddit?) ahead of the UK in their solar journey. That's why I have done my research mainly based on those two countries. We are a good 10 years behind. In Germany, they will be installing 22GW of PV in 2013 alone. That's more than we have in the whole country!
Based on the German industry and findings here in the UK, which hopefully soon will be confirmed by a university on a PV site they own, solar cleaning in the UK is here to stay.
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The public has a proven track record of paying for things they THINK they need.
I've convinced mine to have their aready clean windows cleaned "to keep on top of them"
If you can charge £2-3 per panel for a domestic and half that for commercial multi system sites then go for it. However I would caution using % increase as a blanket selling point for 2-3kw systems as those that have installed them probably only just get their money back in 5 years.
My customers complain that the benefit to them is less than £100 per year on small systems so in effect, even though they get 'free' electricity, what they have done is pre pay for it.
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The public has a proven track record of paying for things they THINK they need.
I've convinced mine to have their aready clean windows cleaned "to keep on top of them"
If you can charge £2-3 per panel for a domestic and half that for commercial multi system sites then go for it. However I would caution using % increase as a blanket selling point for 2-3kw systems as those that have installed them probably only just get their money back in 5 years.
My customers complain that the benefit to them is less than £100 per year on small systems so in effect, even though they get 'free' electricity, what they have done is pre pay for it.
% increase is not our only selling point. Have you visited our website? It's quite informative as to the other benefits of having your panels cleaned. Obviously the smaller the system, the smaller return. Residential is not our main market.
Your customers should have known they were pre-paying for their electricity before they bought the panels. It won't take 5 years to get their money back, nearer 11, but after that they will be in profit.
Also, arrays produce most when people are at work and we use most power after dark when the panels produce less so clients need to do everything in order to maximise their return. The more informed installers are now including maintenance as part of their sales pitch along with panel degradation. The industry is changing people's attitudes from 'have panels to make money', which was flawed, into 'have panels to save money'. Because the government changed the FiTs, you can still make money, but it is harder. You will however SAVE A LOT of money over the course of 20 years with energy price increases.
I don't own my own house, but if I did, I would fit panels. It is a no brainer. There is a huge stockpile of panels in warehouses at the moment and installers are offering the cheapest deals ever. The FiT is lower, but cost of installation is %wise lower still. ROI-wise, you get a better deal now than when the FiT was at its highest.
If you own a house and think you will stay in it, you should fit panels now.
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Good point Steve. It does depend on what is promised to the customer re. benefits. Sadly many installers promises didnt match the reality. If a window cleaner gets the pitch right everyone can win.
Information and education. Point taken. :)
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Strange, I thought panels made no electricity after dark. ;D
The big banks of panels would offer an excellent roi. Can't see the residential market for cleaning taking off somehow - not at the £5 per panel some guys expect. I don't see them as any harder to clean than a velux window to be honest so £1 a panel could still be profitable for me as I have the equipment anyway. Customers can't see if they are clean anyway.
I have noticed a 100% increase in performance since I cleaned them in the dark. Think I'll put that on my website. :D
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Strange, I thought panels made no electricity after dark. ;D
The big banks of panels would offer an excellent roi. Can't see the residential market for cleaning taking off somehow - not at the £5 per panel some guys expect. I don't see them as any harder to clean than a velux window to be honest so £1 a panel could still be profitable for me as I have the equipment anyway. Customers can't see if they are clean anyway.
I have noticed a 100% increase in performance since I cleaned them in the dark. Think I'll put that on my website. :D
They do produce in the dark, it's just less.
£5 per panel is an outrageous price, you're right.
Just because customers cannot see if they are not clean does not mean we should not do a thorough job. I can't speak for others, but we take great pride in offering a professional service to clients, even on the parts of he property they cannot see. I'd want a roofer to be thorough on my house, even though I couldn't check his work easily.
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;D what I meant was they aren't as difficult as glass - customer can't inspect them closely, no need to rinse off and no worries about spotting. Therefore very quick to clean for us.
Are you sure they produce electricity in the dark :o Pretty sure mine don't.
Talking of ROI - if the window cleaner hasn't got a thirty foot plus pole and panels are only a couple of quid each then his ROI may mean that it's just not worth him buying the extra equipment. The ROI for cleaning windows only is excellent particularly for trad guys.
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;D what I meant was they aren't as difficult as glass - customer can't inspect them closely, no need to rinse off and no worries about spotting. Therefore very quick to clean for us.
Are you sure they produce electricity in the dark :o Pretty sure mine don't.
Talking of ROI - if the window cleaner hasn't got a thirty foot plus pole and panels are only a couple of quid each then his ROI may mean that it's just not worth him buying the extra equipment. The ROI for cleaning windows only is excellent particularly for trad guys.
If you buy a 30 foot pole and use it once you still have the value of the pole should you wish to sell it. I guess most of us use our biggest pole several times a month.
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;D what I meant was they aren't as difficult as glass - customer can't inspect them closely, no need to rinse off and no worries about spotting. Therefore very quick to clean for us.
Are you sure they produce electricity in the dark :o Pretty sure mine don't.
Talking of ROI - if the window cleaner hasn't got a thirty foot plus pole and panels are only a couple of quid each then his ROI may mean that it's just not worth him buying the extra equipment. The ROI for cleaning windows only is excellent particularly for trad guys.
They will produce from just street light, it's only a small amount, but they are definitely producing.
ROI is important. I've spend about 2k on poles for solar jobs that have come in. But I did a ground mount the other day using my extreme 44. The job didn't quite cover the cost of the pole. The client only wanted a one-off clean. He has seen how much extra output he is now getting and wants them doing every 6 months, so the pole will pay for itself just on that job next time. But I can use the pole elsewhere now so the ROI will be there.