Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Paul McHugh on March 02, 2013, 12:11:05 am
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Hi guys Got a stairs and landing to do, the lady customer was absolutely insistent that i guarantee
to be able to remove a tea stain from the landing before I would be offered the job. Unseen
Help and reassurance for a fairly new guy please.
As she lives a fair way off, I didn't want to preview the job, as it really shouldn't be necessary should it, She tells me they are very expensive 100% wool carpets in a light cream colour,
only put down in November, her emails are just unnerving me as she also insists my operatives and myself have a full CRB check (there's only me) and luckily I have got a CRB check anyway.
She wants to see my certificate!!
Anyway nerves have got the better of me and I just wanted to ask if 100% Wool is likely to be a problem and what I should tackle it with. I'm not charging much hence the no preview
I use (Solutions World of Clean products )and was thinking pre spray with SPM warm not hot water, agitate with my Oreck Orbiter on the landing and just a pre brushing down of the stairs
followed by the pre spray and using my 4" hand tool on the stairs, an acid rinse warm water.
What about the tea stain guys any thoughts on how I should tackle it?
Am I getting this right if not what please? and is there anything else I need to be doing or to watch out for apart from the madam customer.
cheers in advance guys
Paul
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So you're travelling a 'long way' for a job that you're not charging much for, and only getting paid provided you can remove a tea stain from a wool carpet?
I'm oot.
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With the ladies attitude,i would not bother..
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As above don't bother.
Spend the time marketing instead, there are thousands of nice people to work for in your town.
Never guarantee any stain will come out - you can't.
People like this suddenly tend to find damage around their house that you have caused. If you step over the threshold on your head be it.
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Are you sure SPM is woolsafe? with a customer like that I'd only use a woolsafe product, I know lots of guys use it on wool but I'm thinking of Fusion 8? Not that I use either!! ;D
For dealing with stains, I charge a fixed rate for the first hour, they pay that if the stain come out or not, because you cannot guarantee to remove the stain. You don't know what she has put on it already, how hot it was etc, etc. Most women understand you cannot always get a stain out, they face the same problem doing laundry.
I'd tell her I could not guarantee to remove the stain, and thank her for the enquiry.
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We cannot guarantee to remove stains, if you called the doctor and said I'm only visiting you if you guarantee to cure me.....what would he say?
This is an easy problem to solve, just answer this question....
" can you guarantee to remove the stain"
If the answer is no then you cannot do this job. It's as simple as that. Tell her to find someone else.
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Paul
Good advice there if you have not done any stain removal i would pass on this she sounds like a right @@@ get samples or offcuts to practise on go to far and you could be buying her a new carpet :(
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Leave it well alone, these types can be trouble, no one in their right mind guarantees to take stains out and if they do, let them do it. ;)
Simon
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Yeah the guys are right. Biggest problem here is the customer. Every so often you get one that is over the top about everything. And she'll probably tell you how to do it if you're not careful. I would politely inform her that to expect that type of stain to completely come out of that type of carpet is asking a lot. Regarding process, i think im right in saying an orbiter is a rotary, so this wont be the type of carpet to use one of those on, for sure. This is the type of job that probably should be visited first, to provide a free survey and quote, with explanation of how everything is done and what they should expect and not expect from the cleaning. It will allow to command a higher price. Generally people are impressed with a visit first, maybe even a demo with a small spotting machine. Unless of course people just want me to turn up (new customers that is) i always offer a free survey and quote.
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Leave it alone. She sounds like the type of person I don't work for!!
PS. The orbitor would be fine for the carpet proving it's not berber etc...
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Paul
Politely refuse the job on the basis your risk is far higher than your potential reward.
Cheers
Doug
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Alarm bells would be ringing when she uttered that first sentence, she already has in mind she isn't going to pay you. and sounds like she would be trouble, don't feel bad for a moment by saying sorry you cannot guarantee to remove the stain, no reasonable person would expect you to be able to either, you do not need customers like this.
Never ever promise to remove a stain, i know some of the guys on here may mock the NCCA but that is the first thing they did teach me and for very good reason, she just sounds like trouble stay well clear.
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everyone needs customers like this, remember if it's good enough for Hycinth Bucket then its good enough for her friends and family, get it right and you will have a customer most probably for life, not only that (not now but in the future) when you can't remove a stain she will take you word that it can't be removed.
Don't Guarantee got with spotter do for free just the area with tea stain, if you remove it clean the remaining carpet for usual fee, if not you have tried, only lost a couple of pounds, she's happy, most probably impressed, she will thank you for your efforts and will most definately recommend you, BEST MARKETING BY FAR...
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everyone needs customers like this, remember if it's good enough for Hycinth Bucket then its good enough for her friends and family, get it right and you will have a customer most probably for life, not only that (not now but in the future) when you can't remove a stain she will take you word that it can't be removed.
Don't Guarantee got with spotter do for free just the area with tea stain, if you remove it clean the remaining carpet for usual fee, if not you have tried, only lost a couple of pounds, she's happy, most probably impressed, she will thank you for your efforts and will most definately recommend you, BEST MARKETING BY FAR...
You are spot on here with regard to stain removal success being great marketing. With regard to picking up cues from peoples attitude this one is not the one to practice on. I don't think what ever you do this particular woman will be happy. This erodes your energy, confidence and possibly your bank balance.
The reason people take these on is they are short of work. Busy people will spend a few minutes on the phone, cotton on she's a waster and get her off the phone as soon as possible.
Spend your time marketing for good clients not chasing bad ones in desperation.
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everyone needs customers like this, remember if it's good enough for Hycinth Bucket then its good enough for her friends and family, get it right and you will have a customer most probably for life, not only that (not now but in the future) when you can't remove a stain she will take you word that it can't be removed.
Don't Guarantee got with spotter do for free just the area with tea stain, if you remove it clean the remaining carpet for usual fee, if not you have tried, only lost a couple of pounds, she's happy, most probably impressed, she will thank you for your efforts and will most definately recommend you, BEST MARKETING BY FAR...
Possibly ?
But if it turns into a nightmare customer you can hardly say, "who'd have thought" one of the best pieces of advice i ever read on here i think was "if you don't like the customer don't work for them" we have these vibes for a reason, i have not even met this lady and i don't like her.
She has made a totally unreasonable request, doesn't want to pay and is uneasy about letting you into her home, ticks all the boxes for me, who needs that knid of potential hassle.
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Wait a minute, this women does know you do this for a living right?
Does she know you need to earn money?
Agree with wynne, this sort of women will erode your confidence and make you dislike carpet cleaning.
If I'm quite I would work for this women, but i would be firm that wether the stain comes out or not its my min charge.
The difference in people (customers) can be stark I recently went to do a quote for 2 rooms and 2 rugs, upon arrival the lady showed my the rooms and rugs and said "I'm very sorry I haven't got more for you to do, that's all the carpets I have"
She understood I need to make money.
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Paul,
I can only reiterate what has been said above (by people more experienced than me).
You've already lost control of this situation.
I would suspect that she does not actually want the stain removed but instead, wants a new carpet. I also suspect that her insurance (if she has any) does not cover it but she hopes yours will.
She wants "no win, no fee" carpet cleaning.
What I suggest, in the nicest way is lie :) Tell her you have spoken to your insurance company and you will not be covered (I'm assuming you already have contacted them?).
Apologise, say you are awfully sorry but in view of this you will not be able to carry out the work to her satisfaction.
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Totally agree with Craig and Garry.
Should we start another thread on things potential clients say that are music to your ears?
I'm sorry I haven't got more for you today.
Would you like your tea and biscuits before you start?
I'll move my car so when you arrive you can park right by the door.
How would you like to be paid?
I'm not expecting miracles.
I dont know if it helps, but we thought we would take everything out of the room and give it a good hoover. ;D
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Are you sure that's enough money ? here's another £20.00
Would you like the money now or when you come to do the job?
Would you like dinner with that cup of tea?
My friend has a mansion and needs her carpets done soon as possible.
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I pre vacced a carpet once and the customer walked in an said "wow what a great result"
You know she's easily pleased when you haven't even cleaned it yet and she happy. ;D
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I pre vacced a carpet once and the customer walked in an said "wow what a great result"
You know she's easily pleased when you haven't even cleaned it yet and she happy. ;D
Yep and personal pride means you carry on, but how many start packing up?
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and just because she says it's 100% wool doesn't mean it is.
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Yes I'm sure some would, couldn't do it myself.
Just like protector, some offer it at such a low price, and we know what the cost of the product. Most likely water going down.
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Why do your fear the job? 100% is treated the same as 80% wool, rememeber that when you clean carpets you clean for the majority fibre.
why fear someone that is insistant? simply state that you are willing to come and ATTEMP removal & if successful you will clean the whole area for either your minim fee or whatever you are wanting, if she is ok with this then hey presto, ask yourself why she is like this, most probably she has been ripped off in the past. reassure her that you will treat stain to best advantage blah blah blah, you will probably find she warms to you slighty because you are not only being honest but also careing.
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Wynne and Derek what a double act great lol.
She told me she rejected a previous cleaner because a he could not fit her in before the 16th and would not guarantee
100% stain removal. Sent an email with the Doctor analogy Can He Guarantee to cure you ---No but tries his best
(my Doctor excluded )
still bit light on the Solutions products and method Hot / Cold prey spray Hot/cold rinse SPM M Power Fusion 8
got nothing specifically for wool though
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She could well turn out to be a great customer who brings you loads more work, it's like Russian roulette though, safer to not load the gun in the first place. It is definatley a risk, and one that you have pre warning of.
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Taking the woman and her demands out of the equation if I was you I would have no problems using SPM on wool.
Now there may be the odd carpet I see and my gut says hang on lets just test this one, or lets use Prespray gold or this is a shrinker or whatever. This is my unconscious knowledge (which you dont have yet) raising a flag. So I would test every carpet for fiber and dye tranfer beforehand. Its a good exercise for you but doubt anyone experienced does it all the time - unless a flag goes up.
For spotting its what works best for each type of stain, in this case I would rinse cold first, then try spm at PS strength.
I use powerburst on many wool carpets, especially ones you don't want to aggitate.
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Paul, you cannot guarantee removal of the coffee stain from wool, period. If you get past that issue with the customer then cleaning is fairly straight forward as long as you check construction etc. If you are using Solutions products I would use Mpower rather than SPM as it does not contain oxygen. The carpets have not been down long so would probably not need anything too strong for prespray, use plain water rinse, hot or cold.
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Thanks Derek ,
Heard nothing from her since I said no guarantee
But you say Mpower I know it needs a good dwell time perhaps 15/20 mins
but what about my Oreck orbiter, do I still agitate or just leave and rinse with no acid?
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agitate mate...
put the mpower down, and agitate as soon as you like, the sooner the better.... then leave to dwell for 15-20 mins.... Remember mpower needs the water to work so do not mix it stronger than recommended.. ;D
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Natural stains on natural fibres can be impossible.
There are no guarantees, ever.
This isn't roulette, it's business.
If she has already said she's not paying unless you can remove it you should agree to go, arrange a time, say 11a.m. then, just don't show up. When she calls to see where you are, don't answer, let her wonder.
Alternatively, you could just be honest and say there are no guarantees but my price for treating the stain, with no guarantee as to level of improvement, and cleaning the lot is ££££.
She'll most likely say she has to speak to her hubby and call you back. Either way it will be a better result for you.
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Yeah don't turn up then when she calls say, I only guarantee to turn up if Im woking for customers that guarantee to pay me.
I would use sod met on this, surely thats the only thing with any chance? or try acid spotter.
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Yeah don't turn up then when she calls say, I only guarantee to turn up if Im woking for customers that guarantee to pay me.
I would use sod met on this, surely thats the only thing with any chance? or try acid spotter.
exactly!!
What a sour faced.....!!
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I recently turned down a job because the customer was a pain in the neck.
Started off calling me at 9pm (you just know they will be trouble when they call at that time :)) Indian gentleman wanted a letting property cleaned and could i come round to quote, oh and can i bring my spotting kit as he doesn't want to book me if i can't prove i can remove the stains.
Went the next day to do a pre-inspection and quote, flat was on 4 floor with very steep stairs, no lifts, the flat was basically in the middle of being re-plastered and decorated with rubble all over the carpets. In addition the carpets were heavily stained, the worst i have every seen. I nearly walked then and there but got my spotting kit out and showed him that yes most of the stains would come out but he basically wanted me to test nearly every stain in the property first. I was there nearly an hour, i ended up quoting over £200 to include a builders clean first to clear the rubble from carpet, the flat was tiny by the way but i really didn't want the job and was trying to price myself out of the job.
He rang two days later to book me, funny i since last meeting him I had become fully booked until the middle March which was too late for him. Some customers are not worth it and as others have said you need to know when to say no and walk. Yes i could have done this job and got a good result but i dare say he would have found fault somewhere and refused to pay or tried to get me to discount. In addition i would have struggle to get my equipment up the steep stairs, i have a Storm, and it is not worth damaging equipment, i would add that i quite frequently take my Storm up to second and third floor flats but this when the stairs are nice and shallow as are 99% of purpose built flats.
Paul, i only use Solutions products and they are great, however I would book to do some training with Ken Wainwright when the training dates are announced as you need to know what products to use in the right situations. In this instance S.P.M was not the way to go.
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Tell her
A. You do not give any guarantees on stain removal
B. you do not give out any prices without a survey, to find out how big the stain is, how old the stain is, if the carpet is wool.
C. While doing the survey you can carry out a demo to see if it comes out.
If she doesn't want you to survey, tell her politely that Merlin is away on holiday spending his millions from being able to guarantee stain removal.
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Richard C
OK what should I be using and at what temperatures if nt SPM or M-Power
The final chapter a copy of the last email from customer---------------
It is comforting to know that you are crb verified, unfortunately we suffered a theft by a tradesman at our property some time ago and this has of course left us quite wary.
Re the stain, I am contacting our insurance company tomorrow and shall be lead by them, the carpets we had put down totaled just over £12,000.00 (throughout the house) so i'm quite eager to have them made right, nothing was put on the stain or no removal has been attempted by ourselves to remove, i'm a firm believer in letting knowledgeable professionals undertake work.
My guess is the insurance company wont ring me!!!
Paul
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They may come back, you are cheaper than a new carpet.
I still say rinse first with cold water no matter what she says about not putting anything on it.
Make sure its clear she pays you on the day for your time and expertise, not the insuarance company.
If unsuccesful write her an inspection report to pass on to insurerers. Include a picture of the stain before you attempted removal and after.
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avoid avoid avoid!! avoid like the plague!!
Why are you even replying to her Paul? There's plenty of carpets to clean out there!
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Be Careful, if you can't get it out and you could cause more problems, insurance may not pay out if you are not woolsafe certified.
She may then try to claim on your insurance, Have you got treatment risk.
Also if you supply a report you need to write everything down including your survey and how You concluded its wool, you can't say cos custy told me.
If you do go ahead cold water rinse first.
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Paul
Can I ask, do you have much work on? As we all keep saying probably best put this one out of your mind and do some proactive marketing, you dont need the spotting fee that bad. On the other hand it seems you dont feel too confident with your spotting skills and are looking for reassurance, is it more that?
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Richard C
OK what should I be using and at what temperatures if nt SPM or M-Power
Paul
I would rinse extract first as others have said, don't believe any customer when they say nothing has been done to a stain.
Next I would try Solutions Extreme after testing on an area of carpet that does not show, extract and repeat if necessary. If they was still some stain showing i would also try M-Power Spotter and depending on your expertise you could then move on to things like Solutions Magic but as its a bleaching agent you would need to be very careful and not attempt it on customers carpet without practicing first on your own off-cuts.
Personally i would walk away from this one, or if the lady is going down the insurance route say you will attempt to remove stain providing insurance company give a disclaimer in the event that you do not remove or make the stain worse, doubt they would go for it but you never know. :)
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I would also say avoid as it seems to much of a risk.
You may be loosing out on a job, but you will not be poop*ing yourself tomorrow afternoon/evening waiting for the call to say -
"You made it worse" - "it smells really bad" - "There is another stain which wasnt there before you came" - "There is a gap from the grippers". " Your the worst cleaner I have ever used" I get that one all the time! ;)
Go out and do some leaflets or letters to other customers, and learn to judge the ones to steer clear of.
It aint worth the gray hair!
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I bet there's someone reading this who is part of a national network to do insurance work like this and are praying the phone dont ring on this one. ;D
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Playing devils advocate for a moment ...........
Here is a woman who has had a very bad experience with a previous tradesman and is wanting certain assurances in advance of using another one, albeit in an aggressive manner.
There is an opportunity to attend site under strict guidelines that an attempt will be made to remove the stain at no charge and for a set period of time, maybe even in return for a signed disclaimer before any work is undertaken.
A customer who has spent £12k on new carpets could be a valuable asset if handled correctly at the outset.
Having said all of the above, and with the greatest respect to Paul, maybe this is one occasion where fortune doesn't favour the brave.
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I bet there's someone reading this who is part of a national network to do insurance work like this and are praying the phone dont ring on this one. ;D
I believe there is a supplier that has work from an insurance company for their network. but its only hear say ;)
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Sorry if it's already been said but I think you need to make yourself heard right from the beginning. Allowing people to control the early dialogue and tell you what they expect should never occur. You are the one that tells them what is possible and what is not and at no point does the responsibility and ownership of the problem pass from them to you. Once you have informed them that they may have done permanent damage by not taking care of their carpets they can decide if they want to go ahead. I tend to play down the chances of success as I prefer not to put additional pressure on myself but that’s just my preference. Whatever you charge for a job like that it will be a fraction of what the cost of replacing the carpet is so it's not much of a risk on the customers part to try cleaning first.
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I bet there's someone reading this who is part of a national network to do insurance work like this and are praying the phone dont ring on this one. ;D
I believe there is a supplier that has work from an insurance company for their network. but its only hear say ;)
I would have done it but that £100 was invested in LOTTO scratch cards. ;D
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pity they were the ones where the jackpot had already been won though Wynne
;D ;D
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Thanks for all the posts lads, believe me I wont be going near this one 12k+ carpets and woman who clearly will not let you off the hook if it goes belly up no way.
However there is a point to this post for all, that excepting the principle of rinsing the stain first, the treatments and products recommended from the experienced boys did appear to vary quite a bit.
To a new guy that's a bit confusing as we newbies sort of hope you all say pretty much the exact same procedure, so we know we are pretty safe???
paul
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I would use sod met on this, surely thats the only thing with any chance? or try acid spotter.
I would too, but with repect Hugh if you have no experience of these products then this customer is not the one to try these methods with.
Hugh you sound new to this game, and in a few years time you'll know easily how to deal with people like this, as it is you have walked into a minefield.
There is no shame in this game of knowing when to walk away from a situation that will cause more headaches than results. Even now after 13 years I still have the odd enquiry which I turn down for reasons too many to mention.
If you are still going to go to this job then buy some cotton buds and do tiny experiments on the stain with different products to see what is effective and what isn't. The last thing you want to be doing is adding one product, on top of another product, on top of another product in the hope you'll find one that works.
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I would use sod met on this, surely thats the only thing with any chance? or try acid spotter.
I would too, but with repect Hugh if you have no experience of these products then this customer is not the one to try these methods with.
Hugh you sound new to this game, and in a few years time you'll know easily how to deal with people like this, as it is you have walked into a minefield.
There is no shame in this game of knowing when to walk away from a situation that will cause more headaches than results. Even now after 13 years I still have the odd enquiry which I turn down for reasons too many to mention.
If you are still going to go to this job then buy some cotton buds and do tiny experiments on the stain with different products to see what is effective and what isn't. The last thing you want to be doing is adding one product, on top of another product, on top of another product in the hope you'll find one that works.
Some great points there William. ;D
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Some great points there William.
Weren't they just, Jon.
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Paul
When I started one of my first customers told me that her carpet cleaned up perfectly and it had been cleaned by every carpet cleaner in the area who where all crap after I removed all the dirt I found all the stains as her kids had a great party needless to say I am now on the list of crap carpet cleaners who failed to clean her carpet as perfectly as she expected.
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I think that have you have had a bit of training you would have handled this customer a little differently. You do not sound confiident and certain about how you are going to treat her expensive carpet so. Why should she have any confidence in you?.
I make it quite clear with stain removal that I am very good and experienced at it but it is never a condition of payment and if they can find anybody stupid or inexperinced enough to make that guarantee they can go with them. If they ask me to go and have a look at it then they must pay a call out because I can look at it as long as I like, it is not going to tell you wether the stain will come out or not.
You as an "expert" need to be firm and precise right from the outset, it is a recipe for disaster if people's expectations are too high in the first place, they need to understand that whilst we can do some imp ressive things we are not magicians.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
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One thing however you got exactly right though, you asked on here first so that shows you were unsure and decided to ask, it does seem like common sense, even to people that are not carpet cleaners that it's unreasonable to expect a guarantee of removing a stain, can she guarantee removal of stains on clothing when and if she ever uses a washing machine, of course not, it is probably the one most important thing to remember, never guarantee to remove any stain, so when it does come out they think your amazing, when it doesn't they still think, well you said it may not come out.
Remember as others have said, they are calling you as an authority on what you are being paid to do, of course we all have to learn though but at least sound confident, use the forums for the wealth of info they contain and if you haven't already get some training under your belt.
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Follow your gut instinct- it obviously says NO or you would not have put it on here.
The only time I have gone against mine was a complete disaster and resulted in a big insurance claim which was not my fault as the woman damaged the sofa after I left. I should have walked when I first got there and felt the negative vibes, but I was hard up at the time.