Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Crystal-clear on February 25, 2013, 03:56:14 pm
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We had a bit of a mixed response and thank everyone for input but I just want to know how many people here talk to customers about turning inverters off getting your insurances updated and all that and how many poll simply turn up and wfp it ?
So far I'm getting the vibe of just turn up n clean , I really don't want to worry Bout damaging her panels or yes getting a shock so solar has kinda put me off to the point I'm thinking about not doing it lol ! So really guys please get involved with the poll !
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We had a bit of a mixed response and thank everyone for input but I just want to know how many people here talk to customers about turning inverters off getting your insurances updated and all that and how many poll simply turn up and wfp it ?
So far I'm getting the vibe of just turn up n clean , I really don't want to worry Bout damaging her panels or yes getting a shock so solar has kinda put me off to the point I'm thinking about not doing it lol ! So really guys please get involved with the poll !
I'm gonna watch this one closely. It will be interesting.... ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
The trend so far is worrying. :-\
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We had a bit of a mixed response and thank everyone for input but I just want to know how many people here talk to customers about turning inverters off getting your insurances updated and all that and how many poll simply turn up and wfp it ?
So far I'm getting the vibe of just turn up n clean , I really don't want to worry Bout damaging her panels or yes getting a shock so solar has kinda put me off to the point I'm thinking about not doing it lol ! So really guys please get involved with the poll !
I'm gonna watch this one closely. It will be interesting.... ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
The trend so far is worrying. :-\
...and getting patronising. ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll ;D
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We had a bit of a mixed response and thank everyone for input but I just want to know how many people here talk to customers about turning inverters off getting your insurances updated and all that and how many poll simply turn up and wfp it ?
So far I'm getting the vibe of just turn up n clean , I really don't want to worry Bout damaging her panels or yes getting a shock so solar has kinda put me off to the point I'm thinking about not doing it lol ! So really guys please get involved with the poll !
I'm gonna watch this one closely. It will be interesting.... ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
The trend so far is worrying. :-\
...and getting patronising. ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll ;D
Sorry. Didn't mean it to be.... ;D
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at the end of the day they are only domestic properties and there is no way to turn the power off to make them 100% safe without:-
destroying them, covering them up, or wait till sun goes in.
commercail set ups where there are 100+ then things should be done diffrently. but still even then, each panel is still producing power no mater what you turn off!
i think what the worrying part is that some people dont know how solar panels work and where all the electric is being produced! and the wiring of them!
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I was interested in Solar Steves earlier comments about double glazing units leaking and comparing them to solar panel units. Surely double glazed units have no safety standards to adhere to when it comes to preventing water ingress, whereas a leaking solar panel has the capacity to kill.
Do you think they're built to the same standard Steve?
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at the end of the day they are only domestic properties and there is no way to turn the power off to make them 100% safe without:-
destroying them, covering them up, or wait till sun goes in.
commercail set ups where there are 100+ then things should be done diffrently. but still even then, each panel is still producing power no mater what you turn off!
i think what the worrying part is that some people dont know how solar panels work and where all the electric is being produced! and the wiring of them!
I agree RC. People don't know how they are wired etc. Even though a panel may produce power though, it will not electrocute you. But why would 100+ panels be done differently than a domestic with 16?
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I was interested in Solar Steves earlier comments about double glazing units leaking and comparing them to solar panel units. Surely double glazed units have no safety standards to adhere to when it comes to preventing water ingress, whereas a leaking solar panel has the capacity to kill.
Do you think they're built to the same standard Steve?
They won't be built to the same safety standard, but the principle of allowing water in over time is the same. Some try to argue that a solar panel is a sealed unit and that it is impossible for water to get in. Like double glazed units, it is possible over the course of time for the solar panel seal to wear and then allow water in.
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If water has already got in surely it'll blow the whole unit, why would it wait for a cleaner to appear?
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at the end of the day they are only domestic properties and there is no way to turn the power off to make them 100% safe without:-
destroying them, covering them up, or wait till sun goes in.
commercail set ups where there are 100+ then things should be done diffrently. but still even then, each panel is still producing power no mater what you turn off!
i think what the worrying part is that some people dont know how solar panels work and where all the electric is being produced! and the wiring of them!
I agree RC. People don't know how they are wired etc. Even though a panel may produce power though, it will not electrocute you. But why would 100+ panels be done differently than a domestic with 16?
just with the ammount of power that they are producing all together, its like a mini power plant, plus there are more safety laws that you have to comply with on the sites.
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at the end of the day they are only domestic properties and there is no way to turn the power off to make them 100% safe without:-
destroying them, covering them up, or wait till sun goes in.
commercail set ups where there are 100+ then things should be done diffrently. but still even then, each panel is still producing power no mater what you turn off!
i think what the worrying part is that some people dont know how solar panels work and where all the electric is being produced! and the wiring of them!
I agree RC. People don't know how they are wired etc. Even though a panel may produce power though, it will not electrocute you. But why would 100+ panels be done differently than a domestic with 16?
just with the ammount of power that they are producing all together, its like a mini power plant, plus there are more safety laws that you have to comply with on the sites.
Very true, but you only need one bad one.... :)
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If water has already got in surely it'll blow the whole unit, why would it wait for a cleaner to appear?
Because you will be earthed. Same principle as why rain does not blow out all the electricity pylons.
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at the end of the day they are only domestic properties and there is no way to turn the power off to make them 100% safe without:-
destroying them, covering them up, or wait till sun goes in.
commercail set ups where there are 100+ then things should be done diffrently. but still even then, each panel is still producing power no mater what you turn off!
i think what the worrying part is that some people dont know how solar panels work and where all the electric is being produced! and the wiring of them!
I agree RC. People don't know how they are wired etc. Even though a panel may produce power though, it will not electrocute you. But why would 100+ panels be done differently than a domestic with 16?
just with the ammount of power that they are producing all together, its like a mini power plant, plus there are more safety laws that you have to comply with on the sites.
Very true, but you only need one bad one.... :)
yep, but still as there is no way of turning an individual solar panel off anyway, the risk is always there no matter what is done,
the only 100% way to stop the pwer on one will destroy the panel leaving it no good.
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at the end of the day they are only domestic properties and there is no way to turn the power off to make them 100% safe without:-
destroying them, covering them up, or wait till sun goes in.
commercail set ups where there are 100+ then things should be done diffrently. but still even then, each panel is still producing power no mater what you turn off!
i think what the worrying part is that some people dont know how solar panels work and where all the electric is being produced! and the wiring of them!
I agree RC. People don't know how they are wired etc. Even though a panel may produce power though, it will not electrocute you. But why would 100+ panels be done differently than a domestic with 16?
just with the ammount of power that they are producing all together, its like a mini power plant, plus there are more safety laws that you have to comply with on the sites.
Very true, but you only need one bad one.... :)
yep, but still as there is no way of turning an individual solar panel off anyway, the risk is always there no matter what is done,
the only 100% way to stop the pwer on one will destroy the panel leaving it no good.
I think our difference of opinion comes down to the fact that you think they should be turned off and as my installer explained to me, they can be on, but carry no threat of electrocution. I am not interested in getting them all turned off. I am only interested in not being electrocuted. Pretty sure you are the same mate. :)
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at the end of the day they are only domestic properties and there is no way to turn the power off to make them 100% safe without:-
destroying them, covering them up, or wait till sun goes in.
commercail set ups where there are 100+ then things should be done diffrently. but still even then, each panel is still producing power no mater what you turn off!
i think what the worrying part is that some people dont know how solar panels work and where all the electric is being produced! and the wiring of them!
I agree RC. People don't know how they are wired etc. Even though a panel may produce power though, it will not electrocute you. But why would 100+ panels be done differently than a domestic with 16?
just with the ammount of power that they are producing all together, its like a mini power plant, plus there are more safety laws that you have to comply with on the sites.
Very true, but you only need one bad one.... :)
yep, but still as there is no way of turning an individual solar panel off anyway, the risk is always there no matter what is done,
the only 100% way to stop the pwer on one will destroy the panel leaving it no good.
I think our difference of opinion comes down to the fact that you think they should be turned off and as my installer explained to me, they can be on, but carry no threat of electrocution. I am not interested in getting them all turned off. I am only interested in not being electrocuted. Pretty sure you are the same mate. :)
my thoughts, knowledge and speaking to several compaies that make, supply and fit them and they all say that there is no need to turn them off because of all the built in safety cut outs in the system anyway. if there is a short in any system then the inverter will trip out killing all power, but the panels will still be live.
its like how the RCD units work on the main electric board. if all is working right you can grad hold of the live wires and before you get a shock the power is triped out.
so for domestic systems there is no need to turn aything off at all.
i say turn them off in commercial solar farm just to the fact of how much power is about on that site.
what people dont know is that I come from a building background farther used to build them from scrach and been doing it for 30+ years, ive been doing it for 10 years solid, then before that 6-7 years part time. other side to my business is in property maintenance, electrics, water, building, etc etc
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if anythink the way forward is is to be wearing all the correctly rated electrical safey gear that they have to wear,
gloves, eye protection, correct shoes/boots
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Turn the Sun off.
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Turning off the ac side does not stop the risk of electrocution if a panel lets in water , it will still be producing dc current which is more dangerous.
Correct me if im wrong but I believe the inverter is usually separate and not inside the case of the panel .
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It's solar Steve vs RC ;)
Steve my loss of life is a factor as I won't be able to clean windows ;)
RC you are basically saying I'm good to go ;)
What do I do ??? clean or say sorry to the customer that I'm not prepaid to take the risks involved due to what I am learning I'm not a gambing person ste if what you are saying is right I would have to decline !
Round 2
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What do I do ???
Bill the custard but dont do them. Simples.
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i just turn up and clean.never had a problem.
loads of window cleaners clean solar panels as add on jobs now.have you ever heard of any window cleaners being harmed by cleaning them? ??? ???
i havent.
regards
dazmond
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How does the current travel through brush head , I would say its nigh on impossible to get electrocuted whilst cleaning domestic from ground with a pole.
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I agree with dazmond the risk is very small , if your really worried you can get gloves rated to 3300kv .
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I agree with dazmond the risk is very small , if your really worried you can get gloves rated to 3300kv .
+1
Exactly what I was going to suggest if it is just a one-off. But i you spend £45 on some gloves and the job is only £45 is it worth it?
If you are going to make this part of your business in the long term, more research and decisions have to be made. Only you can call it though mate. :)
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I agree with dazmond the risk is very small , if your really worried you can get gloves rated to 3300kv .
+1
Exactly what I was going to suggest if it is just a one-off. But i you spend £45 on some gloves and the job is only £45 is it worth it?
If you are going to make this part of your business in the long term, more research and decisions have to be made. Only you can call it though mate. :)
maybe you should take that advise too! lol and look into it more too, as you dont seem to know how they work, what the inverter dose, how that works or how ac/dc works.
quote from you in other post:-
This was explained to me in detail by an installer we do cleaning for, but only over the phone, so I didn't absorb it fully. I know that it is to do with needing a positive and a negative to get a shock. By removing the AC, you are removing one of those two elements. That's why you won't get a shock. There was more to it than that, but that is it in a nutshell. He is the electrician, solar panel installer and a designer and patent holder of solar panel add-ons, not me. Therefore, I don't lean upon my own understanding.
DC is a lot more dangerous than AC., unless its only a low voltage dc like 12v or 24v. most panels produce about 150 - 300volts each depending on the size of them.
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Just to explain the difference ac is alternating current which put simply switches on and off constantly very quickly , this means if you get a shock you can still let go of the object (your pole) .
Dc is direct current and is constant , this means your muscles tense and your hand clamps shut around your pole so you carry on getting shocked as you cant let go .
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Also not sure what your installer was talking about regards plus and minus and turning off ac .
The third rail on a railway is 750v dc there is no plus and minus just a live rail , if you step on it will earth to ground through you , killing you in the process .
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Also not sure what your installer was talking about regards plus and minus and turning off ac .
The third rail on a railway is 750v dc there is no plus and minus just a live rail , if you step on it will earth to ground through you , killing you in the process .
I will email the installer, get a definitive answer and reproduce his email on here.
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this is what i emailed to company i sub to and his relpy:-
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From: richard clues <rcpropertymaintenance@hotmail.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 18:36:20 +0000
To: <carl>
Subject: Cleaning Solar panels
Hi Carl,
Hope all is going well.
Would like to pick your brain about cleaning the solar panels, Im on a cleaning forum and there is a guy on there that is saying to everyone that askes about this subject, is that you have to turn all the inverters off and things before you can clean them to stop electric being made etc etc.
what are your thoughts on this?
As far as i understand that you cant turn a solar panel off to stop power being produced, you can only turn it off to stop power going into the house, still meaning the solar panels stay live.
Many thanks
Richard
this is the reply:-
You are correct! There is only a danger of electric shock if there is a short in the system (which should kick out the inverter anyway) so what's the point of "turning off" the system.
Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
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I just spray a bit of water on them, that way they look like they've been cleaned
They're on the roof so no one can tell the difference anyway.
The brush never touches the panel.
Why risk being electrocuted?
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I just spray a bit of water on them, that way they look like they've been cleaned
They're on the roof so no one can tell the difference anyway.
The brush never touches the panel.
Why risk being electrocuted?
if they have a monitoring system on them they would be able to tell,
some of the ones i have cleaned has this and the customer can see the readings as you clean increase on each panel.
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this is what i emailed to company i sub to and his relpy:-
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From: richard clues <rcpropertymaintenance@hotmail.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 18:36:20 +0000
To: <carl>
Subject: Cleaning Solar panels
Hi Carl,
Hope all is going well.
Would like to pick your brain about cleaning the solar panels, Im on a cleaning forum and there is a guy on there that is saying to everyone that askes about this subject, is that you have to turn all the inverters off and things before you can clean them to stop electric being made etc etc.
what are your thoughts on this?
As far as i understand that you cant turn a solar panel off to stop power being produced, you can only turn it off to stop power going into the house, still meaning the solar panels stay live.
Many thanks
Richard
this is the reply:-
You are correct! There is only a danger of electric shock if there is a short in the system (which should kick out the inverter anyway) so what's the point of "turning off" the system.
Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
Ok. Here we go again. I have a definitive answer as to why the DC current that flows through the solar array is not a risk. This has been confirmed by 2 solar installers in the UK and a contact I have who are solar installers and cleaners in the US.
The DC current is not a risk when cleaning panels because it does not react in the same way as AC current. AC current jumps around and always seeks to earth. It only needs a connection at one end to provide a shock. DC current does not jump around or seek to earth. Plus it needs a complete electrical circuit to provide a shock. Water and a man is not a complete electrical circuit and therefore there is no risk of electrocution.
Shutting off the AC inverters is highly recommended because it is that which could do damage to an individual or a persons house.
I will post this is another thread as there were 2 threads trying to answer the same thing.
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How do you explain the third rail on a railway line then ?
Thats dc and will electrocute you if you step on it .
Just asking .
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How do you explain the third rail on a railway line then ?
Thats dc and will electrocute you if you step on it .
Just asking .
I'll be honest, I can't mate. :-[ I just do cleaning. I have the above info from reliable sources though and I trust it. If you find out though let me know! :)
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still dont see the point of turning the inverter off, ac cant travel up the wires to the solar panels, if there is a fault in it then the fuse will blow before anything happens, there are several safety features to stop this happening, and as you dont need to go anywhere near the ac side of it then you are fine.
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still dont see the point of turning the inverter off, ac cant travel up the wires to the solar panels, if there is a fault in it then the fuse will blow before anything happens, there are several safety features to stop this happening, and as you dont need to go anywhere near the ac side of it then you are fine.
But you get the DC thing? :)
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still dont see the point of turning the inverter off, ac cant travel up the wires to the solar panels, if there is a fault in it then the fuse will blow before anything happens, there are several safety features to stop this happening, and as you dont need to go anywhere near the ac side of it then you are fine.
But you get the DC thing? :)
DC thing??
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Yeah you said in above posts that you can't make them safe and the electrocution risk is always there from the DC at the array. But actually the DC is no risk in this instance.
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Yeah you said in above posts that you can't make them safe and the electrocution risk is always there from the DC at the array. But actually the DC is no risk in this instance.
not when the solar panels are in good working order and fited right, if they are faulty, damaged, not wired up correctly then there is a risk.
DC is more deadly than AC.
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Yeah you said in above posts that you can't make them safe and the electrocution risk is always there from the DC at the array. But actually the DC is no risk in this instance.
not when the solar panels are in good working order and fited right, if they are faulty, damaged, not wired up correctly then there is a risk.
DC is more deadly than AC.
Ok. It's taken a while, but glad we have batted it out. I'm so worn out by all this, I'm off for a lie down!!! :o ;D
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Yeah you said in above posts that you can't make them safe and the electrocution risk is always there from the DC at the array. But actually the DC is no risk in this instance.
not when the solar panels are in good working order and fited right, if they are faulty, damaged, not wired up correctly then there is a risk.
DC is more deadly than AC.
Ok. It's taken a while, but glad we have batted it out. I'm so worn out by all this, I'm off for a lie down!!! :o ;D
yer theres always a light at the end of a tunnel! lol
so to sum it up:-
just turn up and clean them? lol
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Yeah you said in above posts that you can't make them safe and the electrocution risk is always there from the DC at the array. But actually the DC is no risk in this instance.
not when the solar panels are in good working order and fited right, if they are faulty, damaged, not wired up correctly then there is a risk.
DC is more deadly than AC.
Ok. It's taken a while, but glad we have batted it out. I'm so worn out by all this, I'm off for a lie down!!! :o ;D
yer theres always a light at the end of a tunnel! lol
so to sum it up:-
just turn up and clean them? lol
Lol! Nearly..... ;D ;)
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Yeah you said in above posts that you can't make them safe and the electrocution risk is always there from the DC at the array. But actually the DC is no risk in this instance.
not when the solar panels are in good working order and fited right, if they are faulty, damaged, not wired up correctly then there is a risk.
DC is more deadly than AC.
Ok. It's taken a while, but glad we have batted it out. I'm so worn out by all this, I'm off for a lie down!!! :o ;D
yer theres always a light at the end of a tunnel! lol
so to sum it up:-
just turn up and clean them? lol
Lol! Nearly..... ;D ;)
oh yer forgot about taking the pole and hose out the van! lol silly me
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If the solar panel is always live then how do they fit them on a sunny day safely?
My electrician son informs me DC is more dangerous than AC.
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If the solar panel is always live then how do they fit them on a sunny day safely?
with care and with protective clothing and gloves on!