Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ian Rochester on February 25, 2013, 03:10:48 pm
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I have held my tongue for long enough now and given this machine the benefit of the doubt, we even took the advice of the supplier and treated the machine with kid gloves as apparently we dared to put a chemical in the solution tank to aid cleaning instead of just spraying the carpet with microsplitter
However still we have another vacuum blow on this machine after less than a months service (and not heavy service either) I think this is number 4 or 5 now, always the same one, the one at the front end of the machine, we have even had the suggested mod done to improve the airflow around the machine and had the auto cut off fitted to prevent foam or water being dragged up into the vac motors,
When I open the machine up I find that the vac motors are "secured" in place with an enormous jubilee clip which has popped off so the vac is floating in mid air, the airflow mod is a piece of plastic piping and flexipipe which comes off as soon as you try to take the tank off.
FOR SALE: One Jaguar 6.6, needs new vac motor and an operator who cleans only clean carpets with clean water
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I'll give you a tenner for it.
All joking aside, I've had mine for around 18 months now and not had a vac go on it yet.
Having said that, I have other issues I'm not happy with, but the performance of it is fantastic.
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Arrrr Ian your gonna get banned off CT now >:(
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Ian I owned my Jag for about two months before the first vacs stated to burn out but it was always the back motor! number two and in nearly twelve months i think i hasd gone through Eight Motors! I dont know why it only occurs in some machines and not others, but although solutions tried to slate me on ct they cant argue with the fact that my Scorpion is fast aproaching 7 year old and is on its original vac motors
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Had mine 16 months and not had vac issues !!
Mate of mine bought a new Sprinter and had to have engine replaced twice in first 6 months ....... I suppose they can't all be faultless :o
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when the jag first came to market there were all sorts of comparisons made with other machines especially the airflex but you only have to look at the machines to see which one is the quality build and it would seem time is showing the airflex to be the better of the two.
i can say that as i'm already banned from ct
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There are quite a few jaguars out there thats had problems! But the airflex turbo had similar problems effecting a few but not all of the machines produced in the ealy days
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Chris
maybe your machine is still ok cos you are only part time ! Lol
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Mine is ok not had it long tho but another local guy has got through 3 motors in a year
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Stuart, you may be right there ......basically only done about 6 months work, taking into account Christmas break and the odd Sunday off ;)
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Paul - Never go on CT anyway ;) too busy.
Stuart - my mistake it's VAC2 that keeps going, the one closest to the switches, we have even had Nick's modifications done on the machine just before christmas for improving the airflow and auto cut off. The vacs are run dry for 10 minutes at the end of the day and then this morning it goes "pop!", luckily we were doing a rug in the workshop so could switch to the back up machine.
Vince - Got to agree the performance is great, it's reliability that is p1ssing me off, we have a pub to clean tomorrow morning, plus 2 domestics, then Wednesday is a full day as well and we are having to revert to a back up machine..............again!
Not willing to let it go for a £10 but stick a couple more 00's on there and I'll cover the postage! Seriously!
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So not only a dodgy looking machine on the outside but also a dodgy machine inside...
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The thing is it must have really peed you off because anyone on here who knows and have met Ian will tell you that he wouldn't come on here or elsewhere if he didn't have a genuine gripe he's just too busy and doesn't get into forum or supplier politics.
I had a jag and found it to be an excellent machine and didn't have an ounce of trouble.
Shaun
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Ian, stick with it for a while longer and see how it goes with the modifications.If it keeps going pop is it poss to get a replacement?
I owned an airflex turbo before the jag and have to say I prefer the jag, not by a lot though!
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What do you mean Shaun? you HAD a Jag ?
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Sold it just didn't need it I prefer a proper machine not like the pea shooter you have :o
Shaun
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[quote we dared to put a chemical in the solution tank to aid cleaning instead of just spraying the carpet with microsplitter
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whats that got to do with a vac motor
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Ian,
If your interested I will buy the remaining motor/s and pump from you for £200. You can keep the Tupperware, throw it at the Cornish crank.
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yeah i'm sure he'll take you up on that offer! :-\
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Pea shooter Shaun?
Do you mean my Scorpion? Or my Prochem Everest 650 ?
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Ha ha more like prochem Yorkshire moors
Shaun
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Eh up there lad, its not me that speaks wif right queer acent! Lol
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Ian, you will have to get Gunny to do the jobs with his truck :D
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I just find it astounding how loyal and generous some of you are to these guys ...
" stick with it " or " it might be just a one off " etc .
Why on earth do you think Alltec for example go to the trouble and expense of putting two heavy duty fans into the motor section , designing the stacks to be raised away from moisture ingest , fitting electronic cuttoff , giving us quality fittings , body design , switch panels , heat sources .
.... When these guys just stick two vac motors into a plastic basin and tie them down with a 50cent jubilee clip ... no cooling , no nothing else .
And then claim that they have a superior machine and everyone is just copying them .
The whole thing just beggars belief .
:)
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John, I'm not being loyal or generous when saying stick with it, just saying mine has been great working everyday on 2 or 3 jobs a day.
What I mean is if the mods have been made see how it goes before selling it off cheap or doing something in the heat of the moment.
Out of interest, why do you think some have problems while others don't?
Must admit it makes me a bit worried.
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There's a response to this post on CT complete with some pretty damning ' evidence' which appears to suggest the machine may have been subject to some harsh treatment and lack of maintenance.
I'm no friend of Nick but he has a VERY strong following of quality people who love his machines and products.
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I saw this machine first hand when it came back to be repaired and abused is not the word for it!
The pictures are on CT, make your own minds up.
Your machine is what makes your money, take care of it!
Cheers Goron
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I saw that too Robert but didn't mention it as you don't really know that they are the components of Ians machine.
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Is it not the ex ovan cleaner Colin Day that does the mods for the jag or has he been promoted to making the magic potions.
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yes Darren it is Colin the ex fleet air arm aircraft technician that carries out the work.
Cheers Goron
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Not knocking him Goron iam sure he was a very capable ovan cleaner
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yes Darren it is Colin the ex fleet air arm aircraft technician that carries out the work.
Cheers Goron
;D
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I don't see why you needed the dig at Colin it's nothing to do with the thread .
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OOOOoooooo so Army of Nick are speaking. From what they are saying its like you are NOT allowed to work your machines bought from Solutions. If you dare to have any dirt on it or a scratch it it will affect the vac motors and blow them. FOR CHRIST SAKE GET A GRIP. People pay thousands of pounds for these machines and they buy them to WORK. IF the machine is not up to the job of working then it is NOT FIT FOR THE PURPOSE. Its plain to see that many of the Jag 6.6 machines have faults and these faults are due to design error.
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Richie ... did you see the photo's??
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I'm not taking sides... but the photo's show more than wear and tear... They show a machine that has not been cleaned out regularly or even at all....
Not saying the photo's are of Ian's machine either..
Just that the photo's look bad...
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Its Colin that does the mods on the machines.This is the same guy that slagged of the Airflex at every oportunity when he was on the payroll of Solutions kinda sums up the company for me.
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Good old Joe hatton went through four number two vacumes and he only worked part time! does he abuse his machine as well ! its laughable how low Solutions wiill stoop to blame somone else, rather than just acept there is somthing fundimentaly wrong with the design of there machine
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i dont know colin but i am sure he's a nice guy just trying to earn a crust and stay loyal to his boss.
as for solutions or sorry world of clean (solutions went bust did'nt it ?) , they do not like critisism and their answer is if you do not tow the line your barred.
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I had been a loyal member of Clean Talk from day one, but as soon as i started to talk down Solutions Products I was kicked off! There are a lot sheep on there now and they SUCK up to Nick, its Sickly how they all go on licking Nicks Arse there are a few Genuine guys still the likes of Derek bolton, Ken wainright and joe Hatton but not many left
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I've never been on cleantalk I was sticking up for Colin because when he was on here ha was helpful and always seemed a decent bloke. Del
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Yes i have seen the pictures on cleantalk. Point is this.....some people had the Scorpion prior to buying the Jag 6.6. These same people were more than happy with the Scorpion but decided to go for the Jag 6.6 as it was higher specs......these same people that had the Scorpion and no problems are having constant problems with the vacuum motors.....these same people are using & treating the Jag 6.6 in the same way.....now tell me......Does this warrant having a machine that is constantly failing?
As above....Joe Hatton had numerous vac motors go down in his Jag and he treats his like a baby......
Just to add.......i am not saying the above just because of the history between myself & Nick. I have and always will maintain that Nick sells some great chemicals & equipment but it is clear that the Jag 6.6 has major issues.
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I am not slagging colin off personally, he always seemed ok to me, its just the way CT has endd up! at the end of the day its all about Solutions now! if you have any negatives to say! the message is to keep off the site
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Richie
Exactley! I had owned my scorpion about four years prior to i thought was upgrading to a Jaguar and had very few problems with the machine! I never had any problems with the vacs that were fitted! any problems i had was soley down to the water pump
as soon as i upgraded to a Jag the problems with the vac motors were evedint after just two months! A friend od mine who used to be an engineer for british Arero space had a good look at the Jag and said there was too much heat around the majior components and hardly any airflow around them, he did go on to say that a couple of cooling fans might help
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I have never had a problem with my jag but then i took the time to clean the waste tank out after every job and keep the stack filter free from lint.
I am not going to get on the moral high ground here but any machine subject to neglect will end up failing sooner of later.
Its all very well having electronic float cut out switches fitted, but its down to the operator to make sure the water or foam level stays well away from the stack inlets.
Nick and Solutions offer probably the best service in the industry.
As for Colin... he's a good bloke and doesn't deserve to be dragged into this!
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Further
After the first time the Jaguar had been re called to solutions, It came back to be with the rear of the machine full of drilled out holes!!! So just goes to show they know there is an over heating problem
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My Machines are always kept in a spick and span condition, My first Scorpion being nearly 7 years old! and the vacumes never failed! Well Russ If I hadn't looked after it do you think it woukld of lasted that long???
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12 months ago i would of said the same about Nick White, that was until i started having problems with the jaguar!! The rest his History
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So, who's fault is it then?
Ian's
The Machine
Solutions
Would you buy one of those 'prams' now after reading this thread ??? :o
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Russ you come out with some crap how long have you been cleaning carpets
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I've taken to using one of these lint hogs http://www.wcsuk.com/mytee-lint-hog-2997.html (http://www.wcsuk.com/mytee-lint-hog-2997.html) keeps most of the crap out of the tank, just a little bit of grit gets pulled through with the water. Makes clean up a breeze, though I don't use the additional piglet filters. You could ust use the piglets by pulling through vac hose connector on the machine, put the open end around the hose barb and hold in place with the hose cuff. All the lint etc would be caught which is better than nothing.
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I agree with Nick.
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Nicks a crank, if he's not pulling stunts like alerg stop and flogging glorified water he's knocking together Tupperware he calls machines.
Cut your losses and put it down to experience, strip it down of its useable components (motors/pump) and skip the Tupperware.
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Perhaps a post from Ian could add to this thread regarding the pictures for those people who can't see them (providing that he can still access clean talk)
Shaun
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Evidence.
Are those pictures of Ian's machine or are they fabricated or of a completely different machine?
You've only Nick's word???
He would do anything to protect his brand.
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So you calling Goran a liar he posted that he saw this machine
first hand!
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So you calling Goran a liar he posted that he saw this machine
first hand!
He may have seen the machine which is depicted in the photo but was it Ian's?
Only Ian can answer that.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1361899743_images (2).jpg)
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Shame Joe Hatton does not come on here as he could verify that he had two vacs replaced, not four ............. and that it was found to be a winding problem with them so not down to machine or it's usage ::)roll
But obviously, you only have my word on that ;)
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Im surprised there is still no word from Ian on those pictures!!
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Just as a point of clarification, the pictures are of the machine being discussed, the same pictures were sent to Mr Rochester along with a full written report, why on earth would I post them otherwise!
Nick
I have followed this on both channels as it were, and now that it is confirmed that the pictures at the head of this thread are those on the machines in question I now feel able to add my own comments, I shall post this on both channels.
I was incredulous when I saw the pictures. The dirty water I can understand. The damage shown is clearly significant. The build up of crud, fluff on what I assume to be the vac intake I found incredible. If that happened on one job it would have been visible on the surface of the carpet, I assume that any one with a bit of common sense would have dry vacd first to keep it out of their machine. If it was a build up then I am not qualified to say how many jobs must have been done without the most superficial clean or maintenance of the machine, but the answer must be lots.
At least once a fortnight I rinse and wipe down the inside of my machine and rinse it, as much to keep it from smelling as much as any other reason. Surely too the reduction in performance and change in machine noise would have been obvious as the build up continued?
Before anyone accuses me of being blindfolded or a member of the World of Clean fan club let me make my position clear - I do not use their machines, but a Ninja 400 PSI. In five and half years of ownership I have lost one vac motor. Maybe this is because of luck, the components, regular servicing or just my basic maintenance? I do use Solutions products, I simply find they work for me and the number of repeat bookings show I must do something right. If any other chemical manufacturer would like me to use their products then feel free to send me a sample, if the results are better then I will switch suppliers.
I do not wish to be part of a slanging match, have no "axe to grind", but would be interested to know if the machine use did have any basic cleaning on a regular basis? If not then there is a lesson for us all, if so then can anyone identify the cause of the problem?
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Im surprised there is still no word from Ian on those pictures!!
Last Active: Today at 02:22:37 pm
easy to abuse someone else, harder to explain yourself
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Where are the pics?
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on cleantalk.
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Can some one transpot them over here
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1361904409_20121221_101344.jpg)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1361904446_20121221_101456.jpg)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1361904476_20130111_092828.jpg)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1361904505_20130111_102902.jpg)
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That is all 4 of em.. ;D
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Beat me to it Hector.
Can't understand how fluff as got onto the cut
off float spindle.
Surely there's a filter on top of the stack.
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Probably just stopped there as the stack top filter is the one completely covered in first photo :o
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So Ian it looks like you sent your machine (from the top of England to the bottom) without cleaning it first, if that the case you should be stuck off the TACCA membership. Very bad form
Came across this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCinkFlnA_Y (another badly maintained machine ;D ;)
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Im surprised there is still no word from Ian on those pictures!!
Last Active: Today at 02:22:37 pm
easy to abuse someone else, harder to explain yourself
Ian run's quite a large cleaning company, I can asure you he's too busy to reply the exact second he see's a post!
I love some of the excuses that have been mentioned by the CT boys regarding vac motor failure lol The FACT is that the Jag clearly has problems and should STOP being sold untill this issues have been sorted. If they can be fixed that is!!
If you have a Jag at the moment, I recommed having a word with Nick to see where you stand incase you have problems in the future.
Russ, The best company in the carpet cleaning industry?? really? :) have you shopped with clean smart or restormate?
As for colin, yes he shouldn't be dragged into this. He did seem like a good guy when he was on here, BUT it did leave a sour taste in many people mouths (including mines) when we found out he was a paid employee of Solution. He used slanderous comments many times about the Airflex machine and 99% of his posts where targetted towards solutions chems. Sorry but thats the way I see it.
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Russ you come out with some crap how long have you been cleaning carpets
Not quite sure what your angling at here my friend but you sound to me like someone with an axe to grind...
???
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I am not going to argue the ins and out of the machine that went back to Solution in December with a blown VAC2, there are obvious questions and areas of blame, however these were explained to my operators and instructions given. The machine had been back twice previously for the same VAC2 motor replacement with no mention of any wrongdoings on our part. It was only when I complained about the cost of the repair that I was shown photos, I cannot argue if they were my machine or not
Was water ingress the cause of those failures?? I cannot say, all I know is that we never let the waste tank go above half full and if a filter is fitted to stop something getting in then it should be doing its job, I know the foam filter that was fitted to the Extracta machine we had did exactly that, as did the fine mesh filter that was fitted to our Prowler, the mesh on the Jaguar filters is very coarse filter (the original ones was a metal plate full of 5mm holes!!) and not fine enough to prevent carpet fluff or dog hair passing through.
Due to the power of these vacuums not all the fluff and hair is going to be contained in the waste water and some will always be sucked up into the filters
Over Christmas Solutions refurbished the machine, replaced BOTH vac motors and also did the mods to prevent the machine overheating and fitted an auto cut off to switch the machine off if the waste tank overfilled (though most other machines have this fitted as standard)
Anyway we reluctantly paid Solutions £420 for the work they did and got the machine back in the middle of Jan (5 weeks ago) since then it has done about 3-4 hours work a day maximum, has been cleaned out every day and had the vacs run dry for 10 minutes to dry out any moisture (as directed by Nick) I was actually the one working with the machine on friday so know this was done for a fact. Our operators are now actually paranoid about overfilling the waste tank and it is literally a bucket in, bucket out. Basically we have done nothing to the machine to cause a problem with ingress of moisture (as far as I can tell)
On Monday we had some rugs and chairs to clean in the workshop, set up, switched on, there was a loud squeal and VAC 2 went pop! I have the machine in bits at the workshop at the moment and there is no sign of moisture anywhere inside the machine or the vac motors, though VAC2 had come off it's jubilee clip and was hanging in the air
In my opinion the primary issue is with the motors overheating not moisture ingress, when the machine is running it is tremendous with excellent suction, it's just reliability I have a problem with and this does not seem to be improving
We run other carpet cleaning machines and I think in the last 10 years we have replaced no more than 3 or 4 vac motors, this machine in 18 months has used up 5 of them, all from the same position VAC2
We clean using Formula 90 in the tank and antifoam in the waste side, nothing wrong with that as far as I am aware, I know Solution recommend SPM however there is no stipulation that this is the only type of product to use or that the tank has to have only clean water.
I run a team of 18 staff, most of them have been with us for several years and they all know what they are doing in their representative areas, I don't mind a vac motor dying on me for a valid reason and having to pay to replace it, what I do mind is when it happens time and time again, the fact is it causes us massive problems with satisfying customers, we had to clean a large pub area today with a lesser machine when we really wanted to do it with the Jaguar in less time.
In a nutshell we will be replacing the vac motor on the machine and then putting it on to ebay, if this same vac motor is failing because of the the way we are using it then fine, another operator working in a different way will have no problems with it and will have them a very nice machine with tremendous suction.
I am open to serious offers for the machine, either as it is or with the vac motor replaced. email me
I am now going to lock this thread as it is going too far, I wanted to vent my frustration yesterday, that is done, I can see I am not the only one but I can also see that others love the Jaguar machine, my aim was not to polarise people. I have no gripes with any company, just frustration when things break down on us repeatedly.
Ian