Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Paul Moss on February 23, 2013, 08:01:51 pm

Title: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Paul Moss on February 23, 2013, 08:01:51 pm
Just for Andrew  :-*
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: joe brown on February 23, 2013, 08:06:00 pm
Badly dressed ,stale ,unheard of ,bunch of dinosaurs.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Billy Russell on February 23, 2013, 08:07:15 pm
Badly dressed ,stale ,unheard of ,bunch of dinosaurs.

How do you know?
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Paul Moss on February 23, 2013, 08:08:03 pm
He looked in the mirror  :D
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: heritagecleaning on February 23, 2013, 08:08:45 pm
From what I remember they run a 2 day course on setting fire to small bits of carpet, followed by a test everyone seems to pass. My memory has been known to fail me though.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Billy Russell on February 23, 2013, 08:09:30 pm
He looked in the mirror  :D

 :D :D ;D ;D
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: joe brown on February 23, 2013, 08:10:12 pm
I was a member for 2 years over a decade ago. one job in two years,was the return on the spend. Probably less than putting a poster in a local shop/church. No one has heard of them and a 6 yr old could pass the exam.Pointless.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Billy Russell on February 23, 2013, 08:13:00 pm
So how do you know their all still like that?
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Paul Moss on February 23, 2013, 08:13:27 pm
Ive got a car valeters by me that are Cr ap they have crAP equipment but they are NCCA trainned and  exam passed  ;D

Some times you have to laugh.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: joe brown on February 23, 2013, 08:17:22 pm
Can you imagine there christmas do?
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Phil @ Extreme Clean on February 23, 2013, 08:19:45 pm
What Customer gives a flying f**k whether your ncca or tacca they only want a clean carpet at a good price there not gonna die by risking who they use were not gas fitters  who need to be corgy registered or gas safe approved only rarely and very rarely will THE CARPET DIE  :)

Phil.

www.dryerfusion.co.uk
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: joe brown on February 23, 2013, 08:22:45 pm
Well said Phil ,its hardly rocket science is it. You suck out the dirt.,thats it. 1 hour maximum to learn.the hardest part is setting up the machine,the second hardest is using a pump up sprayer.

ian
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Neil Williams on February 23, 2013, 08:31:34 pm
13 years I've been in this industry and only ONCE have I been asked by a potential customer 'Was I NCCA?' Ok granted it's one more than TACCA but one of them has been around for donkeys years.
Sorry but when entry is purely on doing a 'Can't fail exam' then I'm not interested. I did contact them and say I was willing to pay to do the exam but not the course and was told I couldn't do that. I said I'm not willing to pay to do a 2 day introduction course to carpet cleaning and pay for the privilage....so that was the end of that.
I also know an NCCA member who really hasn't got a clue, but also advertises his NCCA qual to deal with leathers, when he doesn't even know the difference between analine and pigmented.
Says it all really
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Simon Moat on February 23, 2013, 08:35:46 pm
What Customer gives a flying f**k whether your ncca or tacca they only want a clean carpet at a good price there not gonna die by risking who they use were not gas fitters  who need to be corgy registered or gas safe approved only rarely and very rarely will THE CARPET DIE  :)

Phil.

www.dryerfusion.co.uk

Well said Phil, all this cobblers is getting a little bit sectarian for me, I've never even considered being a member of any organisation/association in this industry, and when I see drivel thats been spouted I'm very happy with that fact.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: ian de-lacey on February 23, 2013, 08:37:20 pm
Yeah, its a bit like being in the national association of people that can walk in a straight line. 99.9% of people dont need a sticker or certificate to show they can do it.

regards

Ian
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: happy mondays on February 23, 2013, 08:40:57 pm
Your right Paul Moss, some ncca members work for peanuts as do alot of tacca members - I think tacca and the ncca should amalgamate and become one - nacca (not approved & cant clean anything)    ;) 

Its got a good ring to it dont you think  :D

If I had the spare time to start NACCA I would - but I'm far too busy earning money  :P

Maybe the leather king Neil should start NACCA - he's the next Richard Branson and we all know he could pass the ncca exam - because hes told us all that many times (yawn) - he knows the difference between analine and pigmented leathers  ;D ;D hooray   :P   
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: wynne jones on February 23, 2013, 10:12:59 pm
I'm not a big fan of the NCCA, but I've never understood the disgruntlement that a member was never passed jobs. The people I know who think it is worth it, mercilessly exploit it in their marketing and make sure people 'know' that anyone who isnt in it are cowboys.

Ironically one of them is a rag whirler with a vax wet vac for spotting.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: nathanjd on February 23, 2013, 10:47:37 pm
13 years I've been in this industry and only ONCE have I been asked by a potential customer 'Was I NCCA?' Ok granted it's one more than TACCA but one of them has been around for donkeys years.
Sorry but when entry is purely on doing a 'Can't fail exam' then I'm not interested. I did contact them and say I was willing to pay to do the exam but not the course and was told I couldn't do that. I said I'm not willing to pay to do a 2 day introduction course to carpet cleaning and pay for the privilage....so that was the end of that.
I also know an NCCA member who really hasn't got a clue, but also advertises his NCCA qual to deal with leathers, when he doesn't even know the difference between analine and pigmented.
Says it all really

In the words of alan partridge: 'Lovely Stuff!'
When i worked for an NCCA company no-one ever knew what it was. They certainly never heard of it. We had to tell them how 'important' it was that we were a member for them to undertsand what it was. Not worth the rediculous membership fee. TACCA is great because it is doing what it should be. Now that ive been on my own in business for 8 years and one of TACCA's members from the start i really appreciate it. And last week i had a job from someone who heard that you need TACCA registered cleaner. As they say on facebook....Like!
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: John Kelly on February 24, 2013, 01:05:05 am
The NCCA is a trade association. Every industry has them. They are normally started by a bunch of operators in that industry who get together with the intention of increasing professionalism in said industry and to try and bring benefits to its members.
TACCA is exactly the same. Both are run by dedicated people who give a lot of their own time for little reward. You don't have to join either as it is not compulsary. People do join and do so because they believe it can benefit them personally and maybe they like being part of a collective group. Neither deserve to be slagged off.
If you don't want to join, don't join, but they don't deserve the vitriolic bashing some people give both organisations.
Now if you were a member of the BDMA where insurance companies insist you are a member before they'll give you work you would have something to carp about.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Ian Gourlay on February 24, 2013, 07:23:13 am
A lot of people appear to remane members of the NCCA.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Fran84 on February 24, 2013, 07:55:12 am
The NCCA is a trade association. Every industry has them. They are normally started by a bunch of operators in that industry who get together with the intention of increasing professionalism in said industry and to try and bring benefits to its members.
TACCA is exactly the same. Both are run by dedicated people who give a lot of their own time for little reward. You don't have to join either as it is not compulsary. People do join and do so because they believe it can benefit them personally and maybe they like being part of a collective group. Neither deserve to be slagged off.
If you don't want to join, don't join, but they don't deserve the vitriolic bashing some people give both organisations.
Now if you were a member of the BDMA where insurance companies insist you are a member before they'll give you work you would have something to carp about.

Here Here :)

I am a member of neither and have to agree with John. Leave the poor guys alone!!
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Fran84 on February 24, 2013, 07:55:55 am
The NCCA is a trade association. Every industry has them. They are normally started by a bunch of operators in that industry who get together with the intention of increasing professionalism in said industry and to try and bring benefits to its members.
TACCA is exactly the same. Both are run by dedicated people who give a lot of their own time for little reward. You don't have to join either as it is not compulsary. People do join and do so because they believe it can benefit them personally and maybe they like being part of a collective group. Neither deserve to be slagged off.
If you don't want to join, don't join, but they don't deserve the vitriolic bashing some people give both organisations.
Now if you were a member of the BDMA where insurance companies insist you are a member before they'll give you work you would have something to carp about.

Here Here :)

I am a member of neither and have to agree with John. Leave the poor guys alone!!
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: *Hector* on February 24, 2013, 08:38:53 am
you agree so much ........... you said it twice  ;D ;D
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Billy Russell on February 24, 2013, 08:41:01 am
The NCCA is a trade association. Every industry has them. They are normally started by a bunch of operators in that industry who get together with the intention of increasing professionalism in said industry and to try and bring benefits to its members.
TACCA is exactly the same. Both are run by dedicated people who give a lot of their own time for little reward. You don't have to join either as it is not compulsary. People do join and do so because they believe it can benefit them personally and maybe they like being part of a collective group. Neither deserve to be slagged off.
If you don't want to join, don't join, but they don't deserve the vitriolic bashing some people give both organisations.
Now if you were a member of the BDMA where insurance companies insist you are a member before they'll give you work you would have something to carp about.

That is well said!!!

Didn't expect that from the Northern Mop Man!!!
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner on February 24, 2013, 08:59:47 am
Blimey Phil,your on your `high horse`ain`t yaBTW did you take Simon Gerrard up on his offer? ::)roll ::)roll


Lewis  Doubtfire.


P.S.

Only last week Lewis Scroby sent me details thru`the post
Regarding NCCA membership.
Very proffessional newsletter / link and a good article by
Cecil Aigin.
I resigned in 1989,things do look to have moved on significantly
Since then.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: creighton foyle on February 24, 2013, 09:56:02 am
you cant argue with the fact that the ncca runs excellent carpet cleaning course and as the longest established and only (prior to tacca) carpet cleaning organisation they have milked that by charging extremly high prices for training that can be had elswhere much cheaper.

 If they really are interested in getting more members on board they should perhaps allow cleaners who attend other courses to complete their test thus opening up the possibility to get new members. most of these trainers are well known in the carpet cleaning world and are just as capable as the official ncca trainers.

I would be interested to know the sort of turnover in membership the ncca has, i am sure there are a hard core of members but i wonder what the average membership period is as there seem to be a number of people on here who have stated they were members at some point in time but then left.

I think there is quite a big difference in the aims of tacca and ncca, whilst they both exist to promote training and good practice in the industry tacca's  main objective is to get enough members together to pay for a planned advertising campaign to inform the public of the existance of the organisation and the trained operatives that exist within it and to encourage the public to undertake regular carpet cleaning in their homes.
whereas the ncca seems to be more interested in using its funds to market itself to carpet cleaners to encourage them to join there organisation. and whilst the ncca may be a well known organisation in the insurance and corporate world i dont think it is any better known in the domestic world than tacca which is quite a failure on their part when you consider how long the ncca has been in existance.




Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: The TACCA Scrutineer on February 24, 2013, 12:02:47 pm
NCCA - democratically elected professional committee, well organised, run by mature experienced industry professional's.

I was a member some years ago, I may re-join this year depending if / how TACCA turns out / changes its set up. I'm not holding my breath on that one though  ::)roll 
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Simon Gerrard on February 24, 2013, 12:16:33 pm
I'm not holding my breath on that one though.
Please do ;D
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: The TACCA Scrutineer on February 24, 2013, 12:19:50 pm
I'm not holding my breath on that one though.
Please do ;D

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: The TACCA Scrutineer on February 24, 2013, 12:57:51 pm
Now this is how to run an association

http://www.ncca.co.uk/directors.php
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Ian Gourlay on February 24, 2013, 01:19:25 pm
Now this is how to run an association

http://www.ncca.co.uk/directors.php

They used to have a compliance director. But it does look to me as if there has been a change in Directors
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Billy Russell on February 24, 2013, 01:31:38 pm
I think the NCCA are changing dramaticly, for the better i think, but we'll see what the future holds, you can't keep all of the people happy all of the time!

 ;D
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Tony_C on February 24, 2013, 01:33:34 pm

 If they really are interested in getting more members on board they should perhaps allow cleaners who attend other courses to complete their test thus opening up the possibility to get new members. most of these trainers are well known in the carpet cleaning world and are just as capable as the official ncca trainers.







I'm not a member but have been reliably informed that it is now possible to take the test without attending the ncca course
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Dennis on February 24, 2013, 01:55:40 pm
Now this is how to run an association

http://www.ncca.co.uk/directors.php

How is a list of directors proof it's well run?
They might be spending a load of the £172,053 in cash they had in the bank at the last accounts on wine, women and song, and then wasting the rest.


If any NCCA directors are reading this, I'm sure you are not.  ;D
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Billy Russell on February 24, 2013, 02:03:06 pm
i see a lot being said on here, but are we talking from assumptions or doe's anybody actually know what is involved in being a director of the NCCA, Time out of there own business and families etc etc?
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: robert meldrum on February 24, 2013, 02:05:52 pm
I've never been a " joiner " as, like the vast majority in this industry I like to be my " own man " and work outwith constrictions such as ..............THERE IS ONLY ONE ACCEPTABLE METHOD OF CLEANING when we all know it's the person at the end of the tools and their individual approach to problem solving that gets results EVEN WHEN USING LOW POWERED MACHINES AND ALTERNATIVE METHODS TO HWE.

While I appreciate the SOCIAL and COMMERCIAL value of memberships I SIMPLY DO NOT BELIEVE ANY SINGLE ASSOCIATION WILL IMPACT SUFFICIENTLY ON THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO MAKE MEMBERSHIP VIABLE.

Having said that..............I fully appreciate that some WILL gain from MEETING others within their industry and seeing demonstrations of machinery and products.

In past " lives " I've HAD to join associations as a requirement of my employment and wore a few badges along the way, eg, I HAD to join the PGA when a Golf Pro, Had to join the RHS when lecturing on Horticultural subjects within the College course I ran on Golf Course Construction and Management and even as a Driving Instructor I was a member of two associations.

In every case MEMBERSHIPS simply gave OTHER PEOPLE an income from members and in EVERY CASE the titles, the badges and letters after my name meant nothing to the general public.

For those who wish to be " part of something " joining an association may give you some return but the only people who got a return from any association I was in were the people who opened the letters from interested parties seeking to fill a vacancy or find a service supplier.

Cynical ??????????????

Sure, but that's the OTHER side of the argument.

Now, there is the possibility that a FULLY ACREDITED TRAINING ORGANISATION can achieve more by delivering a RECOGNISED qualification at a reasonably high level ( probably around NVQ 3 ) and have that recognised by the Insurance Industry and Manufacturers then you might have something of value.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Richard Basey-Fisher on February 24, 2013, 09:22:29 pm
Is Andrew still holding his breath ;D
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Simon Gerrard on February 24, 2013, 09:24:46 pm
I bloody well hope so, he has gone rather quiet tho 8)
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: garybristow on February 24, 2013, 10:06:19 pm
if you wrecked a carpet,shrunk it,stretched it you can get help
if you had a legal situation develop they can help
if you have a spill that you need help to remove you can get the correct help
you can get experts on the end of the phone
if your new to the game there help would be invaluable,you can avoid costly mistakes
the monthly magazine has good and interesting articles
the marketing they supply looks professional and looks good on your marketing
if your a new start up take the course and join for at least a year,it just makes sense
if membership was free i bet a big percentage of you would join !!!!!!!
thank you and goodnight  ;D
gary
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: jim mca on February 24, 2013, 10:15:47 pm
Gary

If they would let you sit the exam after proving you have been trained a lot more would join
they allow the franchise member to do that but not the independent guys double standards
in my opinion

Jim
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Hilton on February 24, 2013, 11:15:21 pm
The NCCA is not for the benefit of the general public but for the benefit of Carpet Cleaners , for this reason the public do not recognise them or their members they do not even get recognition from the BBC when carrying out an investigation in to cowboy operators..you would have thought that as the.body that represents the carpet cleaning industry they would have been asked for their input but no nothing....
That was the time I realised they were an organisation not worth joining.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: creighton foyle on February 25, 2013, 12:39:32 pm
NCCA - democratically elected professional committee, well organised, run by mature experienced industry professional's.

I was a member some years ago, I may re-join this year depending if / how TACCA turns out / changes its set up. I'm not holding my breath on that one though  ::)roll 

and remind me when exactly was the last general election (to include all members) held to vote on the current crop of directors, how many of them were voted on by the members and how many were just co-opted on by their mates already on the board ?
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: The TACCA Scrutineer on February 25, 2013, 12:46:21 pm
NCCA - democratically elected professional committee, well organised, run by mature experienced industry professional's.

I was a member some years ago, I may re-join this year depending if / how TACCA turns out / changes its set up. I'm not holding my breath on that one though  ::)roll 

and remind me when exactly was the last general election (to include all members) held to vote on the current crop of directors, how many of them were voted on by the members and how many were just co-opted on by their mates already on the board ?

I don't know but I can ring them and ask...
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: creighton foyle on February 25, 2013, 04:56:17 pm
i would be interested in the answer so give it a go and see what they say as i am not sure its as democratic as they would like us to think it is.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: The TACCA Scrutineer on February 25, 2013, 05:23:51 pm

I'll call them tom now as I've just got back in and will report back on here...
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Craigp on February 25, 2013, 05:52:44 pm
I have as a member been asked Creighton, it was about two years ago.

All members were invited to attend the general meeting to vote.

I have no problem with the NCCA I think they do a good job.

One benefit of TACCA however is that it could have a motivating effect on pushing them to do more.

I'm a member of both.


On the other thread I said TACCA needs to push ahead with its original plan, the reason I said that was because if it does not it will be guilty of the very thing it criticised NCCA for.

Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: The TACCA Scrutineer on February 25, 2013, 06:17:27 pm

On the other thread I said TACCA needs to push ahead with its original plan, the reason I said that was because if it does not it will be guilty of the very thing it criticised NCCA for.



Do enlighten me please? There is a plan?
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Craigp on February 25, 2013, 06:29:35 pm
National advertising.

Its criticism of NCCA was that NCCA did not get it members work.

NCCAs reply to this is that has never been its objective.

The idea of TACCA was national advertising to get its members work.


Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: creighton foyle on February 25, 2013, 06:31:08 pm

On the other thread I said TACCA needs to push ahead with its original plan, the reason I said that was because if it does not it will be guilty of the very thing it criticised NCCA for.


Now look what you've done?, you've started him off again!. ;D
Do enlighten me please? There is a plan?
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: wynne jones on February 25, 2013, 06:35:39 pm
Wasnt the original plan paid national TV advertising? I really do hope the original plan has been changed. It's a very bad idea.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Craigp on February 25, 2013, 06:35:46 pm
lol, whoops ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: The TACCA Scrutineer on February 25, 2013, 10:11:52 pm
National advertising.


The idea of TACCA was national advertising to get its members work.





 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Don't make me laugh!!!

What with, peanuts!!!!

So that's Mr West's grand plan, get rich with the surplus revenue from the advertising  8)



Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: AshWhite on February 25, 2013, 10:56:49 pm
I've had 2 jobs that came via TACCA site (confirmed, maybe more which couldn't be confirmed).
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Simon@arenaclean on February 25, 2013, 11:07:20 pm
Quote
       

Don't make me laugh!!!

What with, peanuts!!!!

So that's Mr West's grand plan, get rich with the surplus revenue from the advertising 

Regardless of your opinion of the aims or the structure of TACCA and it's membership, directly accusing either a member or Mr West of cheating or fraud is a personal attack and completely out of order.

Simon
TACCA Member
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: The TACCA Scrutineer on February 25, 2013, 11:59:34 pm
Quote
       

Don't make me laugh!!!

What with, peanuts!!!!

So that's Mr West's grand plan, get rich with the surplus revenue from the advertising 

Regardless of your opinion of the aims or the structure of TACCA and it's membership, directly accusing either a member or Mr West of cheating or fraud is a personal attack and completely out of order.

Simon
TACCA Member

Well, you'll never know cos there's no constitution so one can do with what one likes  ::)roll
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: The TACCA Scrutineer on February 26, 2013, 12:01:18 am
or
accountability
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Simon@arenaclean on February 26, 2013, 12:24:10 am
Still think a personal accusation was out of order. Otherwise TACCA Welcomes any feedback given by members, potential members (who have been identified) or members of the public (again who show a right to reply other than on this forum), we strive to be receptive  to all ideas or suggestions, (and have been doing by other means, ie email, phone and social media) We offer an open  invitation (via tickets of course) to visit our open training day where any questions can be openly discussed.
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: The TACCA Scrutineer on February 26, 2013, 12:40:47 am
Still think a personal accusation was out of order. Otherwise TACCA Welcomes any feedback given by members, potential members (who have been identified) or members of the public (again who show a right to reply other than on this forum), we strive to be receptive  to all ideas or suggestions, (and have been doing by other means, ie email, phone and social media) We offer an open  invitation (via tickets of course) to visit our open training day where any questions can be openly discussed.

This is now the 'stock' answer given to everything, as discussed on the TACCA forum, I like it  ;D

Fudge over the issues....
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Simon@arenaclean on February 26, 2013, 12:55:59 am
Glad you approve ;D
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Ian Gourlay on February 26, 2013, 10:41:13 am
National advertising.

Its criticism of NCCA was that NCCA did not get it members work.

NCCAs reply to this is that has never been its objective.

The idea of TACCA was national advertising to get its members work.


Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: The TACCA Scrutineer on February 26, 2013, 11:18:38 am

NCCA doing National Advertising - where, when, how  ???
Title: Re: NCCA your thoughts
Post by: Ian Gourlay on February 26, 2013, 12:00:11 pm
Thats why I got thrown out TACCA  Face BOOK Page  and not eligible to be a member.  
 I said I would not be prepared to pay for National Advertising The President said well this is no place for you ,
I trust all the current members  of TACCA  are signed up  and commited to The National Adverising idea ethos .

[/quote]

Andrew Craig and I are refering to TACCA  not NCCA  although I think the You Tube advert members use does a good job and does not look a cheapo production