Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Allan Simmons on February 13, 2013, 10:21:31 pm
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Hi Guys, I've probably mentioned this before but thought I might raise it again here. We used to use Royal Mail Doortodoor and it WAS great, not any more. My, now EX account manager keeps asking me to give them a go again, then this arrives through my door today. So I couldn't resist making this short video and sending it to her, not had a reply yet, I wonder why?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jXWv0ib-pJs
;D
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Many years ago I had the same argument with Royal Mail but there was no apology or answer to my questions even after calls and emails I never got anywhere so decided to write it off to experience it's very frustrating that you are paying for a premium service and not getting it.
Shaun
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Yeah I agree they are now the most expensive leaflet distributors in the country.
When we used them we had to deliver our marketing materials to them at their depot in Rochester I think it was, otherwise they would not do them....they were then delivered back to where we had come from to be delivered by the posties.
Utter madness, they knew it was they told me so , but that was how it had to be done so after many trials and tribulations we dropped them..
RM are now back in.profit due to all this activity...
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To be honest, if someone is inclined to read a single flyer pushed through their door, they are equally likely to read through multiple flyers, maybe even more so. I'd assume flyers from The Factory Shop and the like get a lot of browsers which may mean things actually get the once over, rather than being overlooked.
Rates wise I'd agree they're expensive and based on the fact they're always about anyway they could look to reduce a fair bit.
Incentive wise, I don't think the Posties get extra money, why should they? That said, they deliver what they get given. How would you have them deliver (present) any differently?
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Most leaflets will end up in the bin, the key is the bin is usually in the kitchen, if they don't keep the leaflet you will have the 20seconds it takes them to walk into the kitchen to grab their attention and give them a reason to keep the leaflet, as they will glance at the leaflet as they walk to the kitchen.
But if your leaflet is inside another then you won't get the chance to grab their attention as they won't even see your leaflet
I' in a massive quandary at the moment with my leaflet distrubution, the last delivery yielded 2 jobs directly from 30k leaflets :o :o more will follow as people keep the leaflet but I usually get a much bigger immediate response. I'm thinking of a major change
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Exactly Mike. Response generally is down, but we've slowly found reliable local teams and stopped using royal mail totally now. They did used to be the best, even at that rate. They are still the amongst the best for very rural areas or I guess if you're the one with the big folded A2 to A3 to A4 brochure, perhaps that's the key, who knows?
I just might give that a try, extreme Pink Flyers, A2 folded to A3 and the posties then fold it again to A4?
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Given up on the bl..dy things never ever ever again will i burn money like i have over the past few years, last lot i had go out was 50,000 over two months ONE JOB
leaflets do work i know, when i did them i got work, not a lot but two or three in a thousand, but don't have time now. the 50,000 wasn't even the worst return, i did 20,000 once and got 0 not one single job or enquiry, have tried about six different companies now.
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James I have had the same response from 20,000 leaflets, no calls, my conclusion was that were not delivered in the first place by the thieving barstewards. Although in my case was not Royal Mail but another local company who i refused to pay and when they said they would take me to court I told them i would make a counter claim for cost of printing leaflets, loss of earnings of £3k to £4k, emmmmmmm not heard from them since.
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That 20,000 response i got i was also suspicious, so i went out to one of the roads that they claimed they had delivered, knocked on every door, not one had seen my leaflet, my sister lived in another road they claimed to have delivered in and she too had not received one, when i told the lady who owned the company she got very angry saying i was accusing her personally, i explained that i thought she would like to know that her employees were not doing there job and this not only lost me money but her as i would not be having any more "delivered". The last two companies i have used i have voiced my concerns about actually having them delivered rather than binned, the last company said they have sat nav machines on the carts that the people use to deliver them, so i thought great idea cost me about £700 i made £50 return on that "investment" ::)roll
PS the road i checked, one guy said "no not seen that before, if i had i would have phoned you to clean this rug" walked out with his rug to clean :P
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Hi Guys, I've probably mentioned this before but thought I might raise it again here. We used to use Royal Mail Doortodoor and it WAS great, not any more. My, now EX account manager keeps asking me to give them a go again, then this arrives through my door today. So I couldn't resist making this short video and sending it to her, not had a reply yet, I wonder why?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jXWv0ib-pJs
;D
very interesting watching your post i will give you an in sight and this is not a sob story just the truth, i have been a postie for 16 years on deliverys firstly you are very lucky if you can call it lucky to recieve you door to doors (which is the term we use) i know that we mostly can not get our d2d done and a lot get sent back to the managers office, we are given 15 minutes a day to complete 20% which if like me i have 800+ drops, so say 160+ a day x5 lots in 15 minutes not a chance this is before starting on our mail, as for getting peanuts for them try nothing not a bean this all stopped around 2 years ago, we used to get 0.6p per iteam which weekly could amount to £15-25 a week, if i remember we had a pay off for about £300 each, and that was the end of that.
we are constantly threatened about d2d and some times mail can be left due to the importants of d2d which is criminal, iv had enough of the place i cant stand it, its no longer a service and i could go on for hours and whistle blow but i have a window cleaning round im trying to build up and thats where my future is regards Lee
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Also if you know and trust your Postie im sure they would do leaflets for you, i have in the past done 800 for £20, its worth asking
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Royal mail have always done this.
I worked of Royal Mail 10 years ago and we were doing it then.
If they posted everything individually it would take until midnight.
And youre right, The postmen do get paid peanuts to deliver them.
Its a bit like expecting someone to window clean a street of houses,
only cleaning 1 window on each house at a time.
Unrealistic.
Tim.
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There has to be a different approach to leafleting, I dont know what it is, but there has to be.
We are all so accustomed to this crap, including our crap, coming through the letter box that any impact it may have had has long since past.
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why i will never use a delivery company again.
10,000 leaflets delivered.
40 names were given to me on a sheet as proof that they had been delivered.
i got (can't remember exactly now) about 4 jobs from the whole 10,000
and heres the interesting part.
2 of the jobs i got were actually on the sheet full of names.
what are the chances of that happening eh!!!
i rest my case.
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My last drop was also 10,000 from a company i had used before and resulted in no calls.
A total waste of money, never again.
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But some companies must be doing ok from leaflets. There is a company down here in Chichester who used to be Homecare(!!) now trading as Apple who rely pretty much solely on leaflets. A5 postcard leaflets go out regularly with a £10 discount coupon on the back and they are running about 3 vans now. I dont know if it`s the content of the leaflet or the fact that they are all being delivered but they seem to work.
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Lets face it if you have ever delivered leaflets yourself you can see the logic, your paid to deliver leaflets, that amounts to walking the streets for seven hours, or you can bin them and sit at home with your feet up for seven hours, human nature.
I know someone who got his daughter to deliver leaflets, and he got a call from someone to complain that someone had put all these leaflets in his bin, it's a hard slog delivering 1000 leaflets, the only logical explanation to explain the increase in response from doing them yourself, is they are not being delivered.
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Does anyone take 10mins to do 10 around. Whats the response from these?
All delivery companies cant be crooks. Maybe the carpet cleaning market is just not there :o
Mark
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LEAFLETS DO WORK
I have always had a response from doing them myself, the best was 7 in 1000 and the worst was 2 in 1000, two seperate companies deliver between them 70,000 and i get one job. it's not rocket science when you do them yourself you know they have gone through the door and miraculously the response is there to see, get someone to do them for you, response rate falls off a cliff.
I have waisted several thousand since i started nearly four years ago on leaflets, yes they do work but not when they are dumped in some alleyway. if you have a company that actually makes sure they are doing the job you are paying them to do, then hold on to them because in my experience they are rarer than rocking horse poo.
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I have told you how to get your leaflets out :) use your head guys we are in business to make US money ;)
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I have told you how to get your leaflets out :) use your head guys we are in business to make US money ;)
I missed that post paul, tell me again :)
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Time of year does make a huge difference as customers like to buy in season the weather makes a difference also, by keeping leaflets out there you will eventually get your rewards albeit mike I think you've been took for a ride.
Shaun
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I have told you how to get your leaflets out :) use your head guys we are in business to make US money ;)
;D
Leaflets do work when they go out. You just have to be canny as Paul says, we've been cannier this year and found local reliable teams, they get ONE chance and are wanred, we now have the GPS trackers too for them.
The posties are paid peanuts so you cant blame them I guess. I will never change the Royal mail, they need to realise themselves that they could still make money from leaflets but have to structure it differently. That's not my job.
I think Mark mentioned the 10 around, they work amazing, but we use a notepad, not a leaflet. A small A5 notepad about 1cm thick with a sti9cker on the top working in your area today blah blah, then a sticker half way through, "Have you tried us yet?" works brilliant.
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Delivering them yourself is better.
You know they have gone out.
If someone is outside when you deliver you get
to talk to them, had a couple from this.
You get to pick out the houses in a street you don't
want to work in.
Your in the area if they pick up and ring after you have
delivered so can go quote, had half a dozen from this.
None of the leaflets are wasted on empty houses or
sh*t tips you wouldn't want to work in.
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delivering leaflets yourself does not work, how can it?
if your delivering leaflets then your not busy, and if your busy you aint got time to deliver leaflets.
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Derek
I'm never busy after 4.30pm.
When the clocks go forward I'll do 6.00pm till
7.30pm ish 2 nights a week with the wife.
In the Winter I do it at the w/e if no work.
You can always make time for it in this game.
If I was busy I wouldn't need to put leaflets
out anyway because I don't rely on just leaflets
for work.
Try going to the magazine rack in your local supermarkets
and slipping your leaflets in the first half dozen copies of
the most common womens mags, tv mag and home furnishing
type mags. Did this in Tescos yesterday and got a job booked
in from it today....from one of the home furnishing mags.
Think I did about 8 mags so 1 from 48 is just over 2% strike
rate..not bad for a leaflet. Hopefully get down for the w/e
and do some more.
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^^ embarassing if you get caught though
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And I've just seen this on facebook
bloody hell , only just managed to get through the front door thanks to the massive pile of nothing that the postman has delivered ;o(
So guess where everyone of those leaflets and non addressed envelopes must have gone?
I deliver my own because I don't trust anyone else to do it, plus I can hand pick the properties that look like they care about themselves.
But I can't remember the last time we got an enquiry because of a leaflet.
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Try going to the magazine rack in your local supermarkets
and slipping your leaflets in the first half dozen copies of
the most common womens mags, tv mag and home furnishing
type mags.
Clever... I like that
But I guess you'll be none too popular with the store if caught doing it
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the last time i asked a newsagent if I could do it they said no :'( :'(
but he said if i gave his paper boys a fiver they would put out my leaflets with the papers and I could put some leaflets on the counter.
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We recently did a DM and had a response of 7%.....by doing things differently and targeting and tracking, something you can not do with leaflets......
Can not emphasise enough the importance of targeting, properly.
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Same story all over by the look of it. I wasted £400 a while back on royal mail, just really to confirm what I actually though - a waste of time and money!
Totally agreed that leaflets DO work... if they are actually delivered. I did my own trialling and managed a very good rate of return when doing them myself. I would never trust another company to deliver my leaflets.
Derek is right to a certain extent, but so is John. You can MAKE time to deliver leaflets if you really want to. I don't really want to so I don't! :)
Just sent 750 mailshots out to old customers for the spring cleaning season so hopefully that'll fill a gap or two in the diary!
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Don't do your DM through Royal Mail, target it through Doc mail, its not just another RM leaflet then.
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I have often found that doing 10-15 neighbour nudgers can herald the same results (or even better) as walking the streets delivering a 1000+!!! Delivered 10 on my last job to the ladies neighbours and got 2 jobs from it equating to about £180! Only takes 5 minutes of my time after every job.
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I have often found that doing 10-15 neighbour nudgers can herald the same results (or even better) as walking the streets delivering a 1000+!!! Delivered 10 on my last job to the ladies neighbours and got 2 jobs from it equating to about £180! Only takes 5 minutes of my time after every job.
Agreed, ;)
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When you think about it, trudging the streets in all weathers delivering leaflets has to be one of the least productive uses of your time. To think people spend 3-4 hours doing this everyday in between infrequent jobs is amazing, I even used to do it mysellf.
You are much better off staying in bed all morning, having a big breakfast and watch some Jeremy Kyle.
Then spend half an hour thinking of creative ways to get the attention of the right people and then go do it.
It's easier, more morale sustaining and far more profitable.
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Waynne, ,I would guess as you are giving this advice this is what you do,....... what creative ideas did you come up with in your 30minutes?
And in my humble opinion 5around are a load of poo.....they give no better results in the long run than if you had just stuck a leaflet through the door, the idea that someone would choose to get their carpets cleaned because a neighbour has is ridiculous .
The only reason they work are they give another opportunity to push something through the letterbox so they get your name in front of a potential customer to imprint it into their subconscious.
If you really want them to work put them out after you have done the quote saying ....
We are cleaning for your neighbour on the morning of the 27th, we have some space when we finish to do another job, let us clean your carpets and we will give you a £20 discount
This will give them an incentive to get their carpets cleaned
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Use a notepad Mike, plus we put a sticker on suggesting they go and ask their neighbour what they thought. It works because if you just get a leaflet it goes in the bin quicker than if you think Jayne next door might be the one who had her carpets done, I wonder what they are like.
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my opinion on 5 around is based on consistently doing it for the last 8months during that time we have not had 1 card returned to us (to claim the £10 discount thats on the card)
I'm a big believer that marketing works if they want the product, I could get a leaflet for 90% off car exhausts i wouldn't rush out and buy one as i don't want a new car exhaust
if i got a card saying my neighbour just got a great deal on a car exhaust.... call now to get the same great price, i still wouldn't call.
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i need a new car exhaust, have you got the details for this 90% off mike ;D
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I watch QVC sometimes and I'm amazed the things I desperately need but didn't know I did.
As for creative ideas there's no point being specific because most people will say they won't work, when I know they do. Also one of the reasons things don't work so well any more is all the lurking numptys who never contribute who could be your competition and just take take take. :(
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QVC brings up an interesting point, it takes the time to sell to you (you watch it for 20mins per product) so it has the opportunity to create the desire for the product.
our marketing can sell to the potential customer but cannot create desire, the customer must already have a desire for our services.
a leaflet would have to be bloody amazing to take a person who has no interest in carpet cleaning and create sufficient desire for it that they call us, much better to try and find that elusive person who already has the desire and try and get them to call us
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That's why we use a notepad. They call weeks later and they turn up everywhere. Cards, doorhangers, leaflets, and any other 'one hit wonder' 5 around was no better than the regular leaflet response, but notepads, that get put next to the telephone or on the corner of the breakfast bar, get used and are a 'there when you need us' response mechanism, plus the sticker part way down, have you tried us yet? We closely monitor all this stuff and these work.
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There's no one way. If you have plenty of cash in the bank you know your way works.
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Allan ,
can you advise on the size of your note pad and cost of printing and who with , I have just done a Google search and they seem a bit expensive @ 50 sheet pad for 200 @ 45p each, is this the kind of price you are paying.
cheers
Paul.
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Hi Paul,
It's A5 , we used to buy them but even when we were buying 5,000 at a time they were still around the 35-38p mark.
We now make our own, we have a Risograph machine and buy in A3 paper, we also have a commercial guillotine and clamp. Our techs if they have a quiet afternoon or gap in the day print them, then make first cut, glue them, then cut those down to the A5 size. We no longer apply a backing board, so we're just making HUGE thick glued stacks and split those down as needed. We leave every client one with the job, about an inch / inch and half thick. The 5 arounds are about 10mm thick with the stickers on, and we also leave them on desks while cleaning commercial premises. We usually manage to keep on top of having them available just fitting in the making around quiet afternoons or short notice cancellations we don't manage to fill. Obviously this time of year is a bit quieter too so we've got a stock on now. I've not worked out a unit cost recently, and paper prices have gone up, but it just gives us flexibility to leave thicker pads with the client, and blocks a couple of inches thick for commerical buyers too.
The notepads turn up everywhere, i've stood behind people at Checkouts and they have their shopping list on a sheet.
It depends what you charge, obviously, but even at 40p each I think they are worth doing, particularly if you make a point of knocking on the door and introducing yourself and saying you'd just like to leave them a leaflet and notepad in case they're interested in future, then shut up and leave, no pressure. That's what I did when i was on the tools and it worked really well. Now, our techs don't like the actual knocking on the door bit, so we just put the notepad through with a leaflet, doesn't work as well but still works well enough to justify it.
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Cheers Allan , and thanks for the info, I used to have a Riso a few years back in my photo lab , great machines,
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How much is a spotter that you may leave behind? A note pad is far cheaper and you can even put a message on it!
The only thing is that the yello post it note could be ripped off and disguarded.
Shaun
Allan if you have been reading the thread but Franklins have totally closed down?
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Even the phoenix Franklin's has gone now? Wow, I would have thought one man could have made a decent living off their reputation and database alone. Thanks for the info Shaun.
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weve recently deliverd 5000 leaflets had 9 jobs from it so wasnt to bad but one lady from a job said every time she gets leaflets she just dumps them as she gets to many but she was speaking to husband in the morning of the leaflet drop about having their carpets cleaned and droped through at right time. i think thats all it might be just got to be lucky on the drops plus weather weve been having etc
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Mike, I don't think you can really compare your exhaust analogy to carpet cleaning.
Exhausts are simple - they are fine right up until the moment they go wrong, at which point you drive to wherever fixes exhausts and get it sorted. The chances of putting a leaflet through someone's door on the exact day their exhaust falls off must be millions to one!
Contrastingly, lots of people may have been thinking about getting carpets/suites cleaned for a while and then BANG this leaflet appears and sparks them into action.
Sometimes simply the suggestion of carpet cleaning makes people look down at what they're standing on and thinking "Hmmm actually these carpets could do with a spruce up, I'll find out what it costs....."
I've got quite a few little enclaves in various locations where I'm working my way round customers who are all within 50 yards of each other, simply from doing 20-odd neighbour nudgers after a job. It's like getting a snowball rolling and interestingly most are cul-de-sacs! I think the best is 7 houses out of about about 15 in a cul-de-sac, pretty much half the street are my customers!
My experiences tell me that, compared to "normal" leaflet drops, neighbour nudgers have both a dramatically higher response rate and also yield a much better stamp of customer. That's both in terms of what they spend and the way they buy from you. What I mean is, they are not price hagglers looking for a bargain but pretty much already want you to come and do the work without being fixated on the price. All because you've got the credence of having done a job for someone who lives within a few houses distance from them - they come pre-qualified.
I think two things need to be right to make neighbour nudgers work. Firstly do 20, not 5 or 10. Secondly, obvious but the actual leaflet needs to be right. Mine has a space where I hand-write the name and house number of who I've been working for, which I think is really important.
I know you're only new to leafleting, give me a call if you want any tips ;D ;D ;D
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I like the idea of adding where you've just worked. Do you ask permission Jim?
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Yes, all the time. Nobody's ever said no thank god!
It's almost unheard of as well that any neighbours will actually come round and knock on the customer's door asking to "have a look" at what I've done... most people will have either seen you there (heard the truckmount more like!) or might have a quick casual chat with the customer if they bump into them outside. Either way just the fact you've produced a satisfied customer a few doors away is enough to give them the confidence to use you.
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Jim I think you might be half right ;)
don't you think that lots of people have an event that takes them from 'not interested' to 'being interested', they don't want carpet cleaning until they are having visitors or spill a drink or the weather improves then they become responsive to our marketing.
not everyone wants their carpets cleaning but are procrastinating.... so a leaflet or 5-around spurs them into action
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Yes, all the time. Nobody's ever said no thank god!
Cheers, obvious really ::)roll