Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: P @ F on February 02, 2013, 08:54:32 pm
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As above , done this stinky job the other day , if its any good for your web or flyers then crack on .
Rich
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/RNH325/frontsbefore2_zpsad81cd17.jpg)
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/RNH325/frontsafter2_zps76e552b1.jpg)
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/RNH325/frontsbucket2_zps4509c766.jpg)
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(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/RNH325/backsbucket2_zps493e9013.jpg)
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Thank you I will! :-)
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Good job what did you charge if you dont mind me asking?? :)
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I will probably get laughed at here , i charged £40 , but when you think about the fact that it took 40 minutes in total with moving from front to back and all packed up to go , thats a £1 a minute , i wish i had jobs like that all day every day !
I didnt even bother with my vac as access was as you could see a doddle , the best bit is that there is another 7 of them in a row all with the same landlord , and they all have to be done , kills me to be honest £££££££ ;D ;D ;D
Rich
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I will probably get laughed at here , i charged £40 , but when you think about the fact that it took 40 minutes in total with moving from front to back and all packed up to go , thats a £1 a minute , i wish i had jobs like that all day every day !
I didnt even bother with my vac as access was as you could see a doddle , the best bit is that there is another 7 of them in a row all with the same landlord , and they all have to be done , kills me to be honest £££££££ ;D ;D ;D
Rich
Carry on working like that and it probably will kill you, shocking ::)
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;D ;D ;D
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Not the safest way of doing it, but at least they are clean!
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Id charge the same mate. Even if it took an hour i'd be happy.
You would 9 times out of 10 get repeat custom to clear gutters at that price, but I bet you wouldnt if you charged seven grand like some of the people on here think they do.
Good work.
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i love doing gutter cleans usually a quick nob and earn more than windows
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Impact 43 , where is the danger ?
Rich
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Neither ladder is tall enough to climb off it safely
Climbing over the railings
Ladder on timber decking without anything to stop it slipping
Ladder set at wrong angle leaning on railings to stop it
Ladder leaning on a the edge of a sloping roof
Climbing over moss covered sloping roof
Think that's it.
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Neither ladder is tall enough to climb off it safely
Climbing over the railings
Ladder on timber decking without anything to stop it slipping
Ladder set at wrong angle leaning on railings to stop it
Ladder leaning on a the edge of a sloping roof
Climbing over moss covered sloping roof
Think that's it.
Man up mate....
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Neither ladder is tall enough to climb off it safely
Climbing over the railings
Ladder on timber decking without anything to stop it slipping
Ladder set at wrong angle leaning on railings to stop it
Ladder leaning on a the edge of a sloping roof
Climbing over moss covered sloping roof
Think that's it.
Man up mate....
What you mean? He asked what they would say!
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I will probably get laughed at here , i charged £40 , but when you think about the fact that it took 40 minutes in total with moving from front to back and all packed up to go , thats a £1 a minute , i wish i had jobs like that all day every day !
I didnt even bother with my vac as access was as you could see a doddle , the best bit is that there is another 7 of them in a row all with the same landlord , and they all have to be done , kills me to be honest £££££££ ;D ;D ;D
Rich
Yes but if you would have done it with your machine, it would have looked more professional plus you could have charged at least £20 more ;) :)
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From what I can see.... The ladder on the wooden decking (a-frame by looks of it) albeit is at the wrong angle.... But is PERFECTLY SAFE that ladder, aint going nowhere, its backed up against the railings, unless the man weighs 3tonne, that ladder going nowhere, in fact, I bet that ladder would bend in the middle before it slips
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Does the landlord use a power mower or electric mower to cut that lawn on that roof. Its obvious winter as its a little patchy.Need more watering, Me thinks.
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From what I can see.... The ladder on the wooden decking (a-frame by looks of it) albeit is at the wrong angle.... But is PERFECTLY SAFE that ladder, aint going nowhere, its backed up against the railings, unless the man weighs 3tonne, that ladder going nowhere, in fact, I bet that ladder would bend in the middle before it slips
Exactly.
The fact that it is at a lower angle than the ideal '3 to 1' isn't relevant, as that formula is to give the best resistance to the ladder bottom slipping outwards. Of course the railing could wrench free of its anchor points, and the ground under the house could collapse into an undetected subterranean cavity causing the entire building to fall down.......
One point I would make regarding the ladder which seems to have been used to gain access onto the pitched roof - it isn't long enough, as has been mentioned and it would have been safer to set it against the house wall close alongside the extension and a few rungs higher so that a simple step sideways would give safe access. As to whether the roof itself is safe to walk on............lots of moss and lichen - could be very slippery ;D
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R.C. Do you ever get any work done ?
It has become clear now that you are an IMPACT 43 drone !
The pointer was not there to access the roof , just to reach the gutter, it was footed against the railing ,not just standing on that oh so slippery balcony !
Ok not the perfect angle , but it didnt cause a prob .
As for the other ladder , i did not work from it and at no point was i using any higher rung than 3 from the top
How do you get onto a balcony without getting over the railings ?
The moss covered roof was about 10 metres long , so i reckon i may just have been able to avoid falling of it.
Of course i did have the cherry picker booked to land me over the railings , and full scaffolding booked front and back , but alas they both let me down !
Good job really because i dont think they would have paid £640 as opposed to £40 .
As mentioned earlier , MAN UP , dont be a Willis zombie !
Oh and by the way , if your so H+S friendly , you should take a look at your van , its well over its weight bud !!!!!
Rich ;D ;D ;D
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Yer get plenty of work done thanks lol.
Yer I've been on the training but that's it.
You just ask what was wrong so that's what would of been said,
As for my van its not overweight at all, it's been weighted on a police approved weighbridge and passed, other wise I wouldn't be driving it!
How many guys take there vans onto a weighbridge to find out there weights??
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Mr Lancaster , nice points there thankyou , but in regard to the pitched roof access ladder , the way it was positioned was for the best as if i had used the house wall it would have meant footing it on mossy steps as opposed to the party wall with next door , i would have prefered a little more length myself but hey you cant have it all can you .
Rich
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Whats your payload RC , that IMPACT 43 manual you carry must weigh a fair bit , being as there is half a rainforest of wasted paper in it ;D ;D ;D
Rich
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600kg
No not got hard copy of it, its on my 64gb tablet!!!!! Easier to carry about and more eco friendly lol
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So 600 payload , minus you and your big hefty memory tablet , you gotta be over surely ?
Tank size ? ;D
Rich
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Not according to the police approved weighbridge
2 tanks, 1x250 1x125
Due to filling the 250 is never full must be about 200-225lts
125lt due to shape is about 100lts.
Total of water about 300-350lts.
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Your over then mate , water and tanks is 400kg alone ,plus you and your tablet , all your boxing in , poles , diesel
RICH ;)
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Your over then mate , water and tanks is 400kg alone ,plus you and your tablet , all your boxing in , poles , diesel
RICH ;)
Like I said the van was weighed at a police approved weighbridge just down the road from where I live, and they said it wasn't over weight. So i think i would believe them that do it for a job for the police than someone else that dont. No offence!
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None taken , but you know the truth , i only put myself at risk when climbing my ladder , an overloaded van puts not only you but all other innocent road users at risk , but i suppose its down to where you want to draw the line with H+S to meet your needs and not others !
Rich :-X
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The weighbridge people can't lie, its against the law and they would be in a lot of trouble, plus the weighbridge is done through a computer system so can't be falsified!
I'm not putting anyone in any risk. The van is in its limit.
I respect my life and want to see my daughter grow up, why should I risk that!!!!
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As above , done this stinky job the other day , if its any good for your web or flyers then crack on .
Rich
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/RNH325/frontsbefore2_zpsad81cd17.jpg)
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/RNH325/frontsafter2_zps76e552b1.jpg)
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/RNH325/frontsbucket2_zps4509c766.jpg)
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/RNH325/backsbefore2_zpse1902763.jpg)
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/RNH325/backsafter2_zpsc06adab1.jpg)
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/RNH325/backsbucket2_zps493e9013.jpg)
Hi Richard
I don't agree with Ian Lancaster on this post.
I agree with RC property
We all have a duty of care for each other
The property owner to you
You to yourself and your family
From one window cleaner to another, what ever your view on IMPACT43,
i recommend you stop cleaning as you are in these photos
My suggestion
if you are unsure about how unsafe your work practices are in these photos forward this post to the HSE or EHO.
Also to your insurance company and ask if you are insured
I would like to use this as a case study if I may at a seminar slot at the Cleaning Show
I also would like to Invite Ian to attend so he can put his views across to a panel I am inviting including the FWC, HSE and some important established professional window cleaners.
My contact details are on www.training43.com. My mobile is 07749 704671
Please feel free to give me a call
Kind regards
Andy
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Good job m8t but Please everyone be aware ladders have taken life's of window cleaners we don't need to use them anymore ,wfp gutter vac all the way the most I do is a step ladder Rarely and haven't in months
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Hi Rich
Good honest reasonably priced Job,im sure you know you are safe when you are doing it,sometimes this H&S can all get a bit out of hand IMO. :) :)
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Neither ladder is tall enough to climb off it safely
Climbing over the railings
Ladder on timber decking without anything to stop it slipping
Ladder set at wrong angle leaning on railings to stop it
Ladder leaning on a the edge of a sloping roof
Climbing over moss covered sloping roof
Think that's it.
Man up mate....
tell that to dead window cleaners family's James
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=164851.0
p@f was a very nice thing to do adding pictires for others, they are nice and clear, the problem is the things in the pictures, they speak a thousand words, and breach so many rules we have to abide by (like it or not) maybe you didnt know about these.
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I think the impact cources make things worse by yrying to scare us in to things that arnt right. Its stupid. Why shoild I trust what you say andrew. Lets be honest you.only do the courses to line your pockets from tax payers mate. If we stuck to what you say we would have no work due to some one else coming along and doing the work without a care in h ans s. To be honest I think your a jobs worth numpty
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I think the impact cources make things worse by yrying to scare us in to things that arnt right. Its stupid. Why shoild I trust what you say andrew. Lets be honest you.only do the courses to line your pockets from tax payers mate. If we stuck to what you say we would have no work due to some one else coming along and doing the work without a care in h ans s. To be honest I think your a jobs worth numpty
Take it you not been on one?
It's not about not using ladders or. Anything like that, it shows you how to work safely and to the law.
It's there to make sure you are safe and to protect your company, workers, yourself and family.
For example if rich feel off the ladders set like that, even though im sure he has insurance etc, they would look at it and see that he didn't comlpy with things, meaning if he is off work for good no-one would pay out any insurance money or worst case if he died his family would lose everything due to him working un safely.
I wouldnt want to see anyone loose what they work so hard to build up, one minute you have a very successful business, next minute you can loose the lot!! It's happened to people.
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I agree with certain thing but some things he stayws are not true. I wont listen to a jumped up window cleaner I would rather follow what is writtten by the hse and wahr thanks. I think the bloke is an idiot. He thinks he is above mosy of us cause he does these courses. You will never learn everything until tour out doing the job. And not only would your van be overweight the way your tanks are held in is not safe. Those silly little raxhets will do nothing ro stop the atnks killing you. By the way rich when you did this job did cordon of the whole area as thats breaking the law you know. Lol ;D
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I agree with certain thing but some things he stayws are not true. I wont listen to a jumped up window cleaner I would rather follow what is writtten by the hse and wahr thanks. I think the bloke is an idiot. He thinks he is above mosy of us cause he does these courses. You will never learn everything until tour out doing the job. And not only would your van be overweight the way your tanks are held in is not safe. Those silly little raxhets will do nothing ro stop the atnks killing you. By the way rich when you did this job did cordon of the whole area as thats breaking the law you know. Lol ;D
Looks like you can't read either, the van was filled up taken to a police approved weighbridge and passed without being over weight at all.
I would not drive it with it being over weight.
As for the tanks they are safe too, the straps will help stop movement in a crash.
How often do people check there metal frame bolts, the base of the van can rust in time and become very weak, then the tank is just sitting there without being strongly bolted. Seen it with others things that have been bolted down.
Video of a crash tested rachet straps
http://youtu.be/UW5WsjZoPeA
Crash tested before straps fitted
http://youtu.be/oFe4FBuEt8k
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Yeah keep telling yourself that. As for the straps I would put my house on it that if you crashed at 40 mph younwould be pretty much dead mate. As for framed i agree they could rust but I would rather have a framed system from ionics so it gives me a chance of getting out alive. If we worried about all safety isues you would not leave the house. Its funny you have been cleaning windows what two years. You have a lot to learn mate.
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I agree with certain thing but some things he stayws are not true. I wont listen to a jumped up window cleaner I would rather follow what is writtten by the hse and wahr thanks. I think the bloke is an idiot. He thinks he is above mosy of us cause he does these courses. You will never learn everything until tour out doing the job. And not only would your van be overweight the way your tanks are held in is not safe. Those silly little raxhets will do nothing ro stop the atnks killing you. By the way rich when you did this job did cordon of the whole area as thats breaking the law you know. Lol ;D
Woods do you know what puwer is ?
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The police approved weighbridge can't not lie about it.
At least I took it and got tested!
Van mounted systems are only tested to 30!!!!! So who knows what happens to them after that speed!!!!!
Been 4 years, 2 on my own now and 2 with someone that's been doing it 21years.
Everyone has a lot still to learn you never stop!
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I agree with certain thing but some things he stayws are not true. I wont listen to a jumped up window cleaner I would rather follow what is writtten by the hse and wahr thanks. I think the bloke is an idiot. He thinks he is above mosy of us cause he does these courses. You will never learn everything until tour out doing the job. And not only would your van be overweight the way your tanks are held in is not safe. Those silly little raxhets will do nothing ro stop the atnks killing you. By the way rich when you did this job did cordon of the whole area as thats breaking the law you know. Lol ;D
Woods do you know what puwer is ?
That's not a fair question really, he has google to find it out!
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Use of work equipment why do you ask
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I dont need google mate to look at how I work hse is more common sense which most of you dont have thats why you need these courses sorry got to go and do a risk assessment on walking to the car
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I dont need google mate to look at how I work hse is more common sense which most of you dont have thats why you need these courses sorry got to go and do a risk assessment on walking to the car
I have plenty of that due to the work I do and have done in the past.
I go on these courses to keep upto date with regulations and make sure that I keep myself and others that work with me and use my equipment safe as possible and make sure if anything happens I have done everything to make sure the payout happens!
And when I say people that work with me it's not on window cleaning, it's on the building side of the company!
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It was not all dericted to you mate and I would rather ask hse than some other numpty that makes rules to suit hiam self
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No problems. Yer there are a lot of guys out there that haven't got a clue or and common sense!
Yer good to have someone to go to like the hse to confirm things, like me going to a police approved weighbridge to get them to tell me if van is over weight instead of people that have no clue and dont do it for a job! Lol ;D
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It was not all dericted to you mate and I would rather ask hse than some other numpty that makes rules to suit hiam self
Why do you attack people you don't know Woods i'm trying to understand where your coming from ?
What rules is Andrew meant to have made up ?
I asked the last question as I wanted to know what you thought the answer was, it is The Provision and use of work equipment regulation 98 (use is only part of it) something many will not know unless they go on a course or have the misfortune of having an accident when the HSE get involved.
this information helps window cleaners, like it or lump, its a fact.
I agree some more than others, but we can all learn.
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Telling people we need to cordon of areas where using a pole on domestics for one.
Telling us we should not be on flat roofs. Which is a lie. Just use thw correct hse.
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Sorry it tok me so long to reply but needed to do a risk assessment to usw my phone incase I give others and my self brain tumors. I dont attack people o here I voice my opinion which is what the forum is for. I guss you must know every thing about window cleaning and the risks then.
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Sorry it tok me so long to reply but needed to do a risk assessment to usw my phone incase I give others and my self brain tumors. I dont attack people o here I voice my opinion which is what the forum is for. I guss you must know every thing about window cleaning and the risks then.
I have not been sat waiting for a reply dont worry I have better things to do like paint my nails ;D Nobody knows everything mate, but your comments above are wrong IMO, Andrew didnt make up the rules, he just explained them, if you dont agree with them thats up to you, Im not here to try and change your mind
My guess is you have had no training on this subject, and totally dismiss anything that makes you question your working routine. I could of course be totally wrong, and if I am, im honestly sorry. At least your open to who you are, although your health and safety part of your site contradicts what you have put on these posts.
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We approach our business with a paramount focus on health and safety management, the benefit of which is confirmed by our spotless safety record.
For our Commercial clients we provide a full 5 stage risk assessment in line with the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999, detailing any potential areas of concern. This is submitted to the client prior to commencement of the project.
Health and safety is a large part of our operators training and it is from this perspective that every project is commenced. Needless to say Woods Window Cleaning has full public liability insurance.
Is it all in house training ;D
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Firstly , Andrew Willis , yes you can use them for your course , however i want to put my point across that i could have done it safer , but if i had of gone off the wall of the house by the pitched roof i would have been siting the ladders on mossy steps , as it was my ladder was solid against the party wall , all i should have done was got my longer ladder off .
The balcony shot involed my double being dug deep into the lawn with the top of the ladder wedged between the railings so was not going anywhere , the pointer was footed against the railing , ok so the angle was a bit out but unless the balcony fell down it was not a major risk in my eyes.
If you do decide to use these Andrew , please also quote my explanations .
Of course , there are dafter people out there than me but hey ho .
Rich
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/RNH325/ladder12.jpg)
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/RNH325/muppetsonroof.jpg)
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I also would like to Invite Ian to attend so he can put his views across to a panel I am inviting including the FWC, HSE and some important established professional window cleaners.
That's very kind of you Andrew. However before I would consider attending any sort of discussion regarding safety while cleaning windows there is one very pertinent point I have raised many times and to which I require a satisfactory answer but have never received one.
In the earliest days of window cleaning the 'point' ladder was the tool of choice for experienced window cleaners. Originally just a single to access tall ground floor windows (predominently shops and similar structures), it was developed specifically for use in situations where ideal conditions rarely existed, i.e. firm LEVEL ground, flat vertical surfaces etc. It also had to address the fact that the duration of use was so short that cumbersome safety precautions necessary with 'open ended' ladders were ignored, resulting in accidents.
In collaboration with window cleaners, Shaftesbury Ladders of London developed the window cleaner's Combination Ladder, otherwise known as a Tree-Bottomed Point.
This ladder was carefully designed to address the problem of uneven ground, narrow upper landing points where there was not room for the two ends of an 'open ender' and restricted access where ideal positioning was compromised.
The basic difference is simple geometry: "Any three points must lie in the same plane". In other words, except in extreme cases if a pointed ladder is set against a wall, all three ends MUST be in contact with the ground/wall. Narrowing the top of the ladder reduced stability, so the feet were splayed wide to prevent twisting.
These ladders were used almost exclusively throughout the 40's, 50's 60's and well into the 70's and only began to wane in popularity with the increasing number of 'new' window cleaners entering the trade with no proper training and no knowledge of the existance of the 'correct' ladder.
An 'open ender' ladder is a GENERAL PURPOSE ladder. It is not designed for window cleaning; in my opinion, based on my considerable experience and training, it is totally unsuitable for the purpose.
A 'Combination' or 'Tree Bottomed Point' (now also referred to as an 'A' ladder) is specifically designed for window cleaning by professionals who knew exactly what they needed and is ideally suited to the purpose if the user receives correct training in its use.
My question, obviously, is why does every 'safety' course deal only with the use of General Purpose ladders and why does the HSE deny the existence of the Window Cleaners ladder and not seek to provide proper professional training in its use by people who know how it was intended to be used by the original designers?
If I were to receive a considered and convincing argument (not one from some government yes man with no professional experience or even appreciation of the peculiar situation window cleaners find themselves in on a daily basis) then I would be happy to attend any discussion.
Until then I will continue to advise all who ask me to place their trust in the people who had their own interests at heart when they designed our ladder and be very wary of 'official' advice from faceless HSE 'experts' who have never spent a day actually practising what they preach, i.e. out cleaning windows on a variety of real properties and facing real situations as all window cleaners do every day of their working lives.
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How many guys take there vans onto a weighbridge to find out there weights??
Not you. Your figures simply didnt add up. Plenty of people pointed that out at the time. Yet youre on here throwing your weight around again.
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As for the tanks they are safe too, the straps will help stop movement in a crash.
Keep on believing that your overloaded van will not crash and that when it does the straps (made to hold loads under braking and cornering forces) will hold the third of a ton of water behind you.
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Video of a crash tested rachet straps
http://youtu.be/UW5WsjZoPeA
Crash tested before straps fitted
http://youtu.be/oFe4FBuEt8k
First search for a Zanussi washing machine says it weighs 63Kg. Your tank and water weigh FOUR HUNDRED KILOS. Nearly six and a half times more. Not really a comparison, is it?
Its your life, do what you want, but dont give out dangerous advice that could kill people.
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I think the impact cources make things worse by yrying to scare us in to things that arnt right. Its stupid. Why shoild I trust what you say andrew. Lets be honest you.only do the courses to line your pockets from tax payers mate. If we stuck to what you say we would have no work due to some one else coming along and doing the work without a care in h ans s. To be honest I think your a jobs worth numpty
Take it you not been on one?
It's not about not using ladders or. Anything like that, it shows you how to work safely and to the law.
The problem is that he has shown by his postings that he doesn't know the law.
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161090.0
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How many guys take there vans onto a weighbridge to find out there weights??
Not you. Your figures simply didnt add up. Plenty of people pointed that out at the time. Yet youre on here throwing your weight around again.
Yes I did got the print out from them to to say it's fine
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Kent, would you mind if I asked who did your H&S stuff?
Was it appraised? Would I be able to have a look (with the purpose of potentially nicking it)?
A while a go someone on here slated my stuff but i've yet to see anyone else's.
No worries if not, or if you've paid for it and don't want to share.
Regards, Darren
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As for the tanks they are safe too, the straps will help stop movement in a crash.
Keep on believing that your overloaded van will not crash and that when it does the straps (made to hold loads under braking and cornering forces) will hold the third of a ton of water behind you.
I never said I believe I will never crash! Anything could happen on the road, could haclve a 17tonn lorry drive into me at 60mph,
Just say the straps are rated at 5tonn each there is a total of 5 straps, held down the same way all the other tanks are.
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Video of a crash tested rachet straps
http://youtu.be/UW5WsjZoPeA
Crash tested before straps fitted
http://youtu.be/oFe4FBuEt8k
First search for a Zanussi washing machine says it weighs 63Kg. Your tank and water weigh FOUR HUNDRED KILOS. Nearly six and a half times more. Not really a comparison, is it?
Its your life, do what you want, but dont give out dangerous advice that could kill people.
That was just a demo and not compared to tanks.
I've never given out dangerous advice, I don't want the blood on my hands,
Unlike others give out advice that could kill them due to working unsafely!
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I will probably get laughed at here , i charged £40 , but when you think about the fact that it took 40 minutes in total with moving from front to back and all packed up to go , thats a £1 a minute , i wish i had jobs like that all day every day !
I didnt even bother with my vac as access was as you could see a doddle , the best bit is that there is another 7 of them in a row all with the same landlord , and they all have to be done , kills me to be honest £££££££ ;D ;D ;D
Rich
Carry on working like that and it probably will kill you, shocking ::)
welcome back andrew :)
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I also would like to Invite Ian to attend so he can put his views across to a panel I am inviting including the FWC, HSE and some important established professional window cleaners.
That's very kind of you Andrew. However before I would consider attending any sort of discussion regarding safety while cleaning windows there is one very pertinent point I have raised many times and to which I require a satisfactory answer but have never received one.
In the earliest days of window cleaning the 'point' ladder was the tool of choice for experienced window cleaners. Originally just a single to access tall ground floor windows (predominently shops and similar structures), it was developed specifically for use in situations where ideal conditions rarely existed, i.e. firm LEVEL ground, flat vertical surfaces etc. It also had to address the fact that the duration of use was so short that cumbersome safety precautions necessary with 'open ended' ladders were ignored, resulting in accidents.
In collaboration with window cleaners, Shaftesbury Ladders of London developed the window cleaner's Combination Ladder, otherwise known as a Tree-Bottomed Point.
This ladder was carefully designed to address the problem of uneven ground, narrow upper landing points where there was not room for the two ends of an 'open ender' and restricted access where ideal positioning was compromised.
The basic difference is simple geometry: "Any three points must lie in the same plane". In other words, except in extreme cases if a pointed ladder is set against a wall, all three ends MUST be in contact with the ground/wall. Narrowing the top of the ladder reduced stability, so the feet were splayed wide to prevent twisting.
These ladders were used almost exclusively throughout the 40's, 50's 60's and well into the 70's and only began to wane in popularity with the increasing number of 'new' window cleaners entering the trade with no proper training and no knowledge of the existance of the 'correct' ladder.
An 'open ender' ladder is a GENERAL PURPOSE ladder. It is not designed for window cleaning; in my opinion, based on my considerable experience and training, it is totally unsuitable for the purpose.
A 'Combination' or 'Tree Bottomed Point' (now also referred to as an 'A' ladder) is specifically designed for window cleaning by professionals who knew exactly what they needed and is ideally suited to the purpose if the user receives correct training in its use.
My question, obviously, is why does every 'safety' course deal only with the use of General Purpose ladders and why does the HSE deny the existence of the Window Cleaners ladder and not seek to provide proper professional training in its use by people who know how it was intended to be used by the original designers?
If I were to receive a considered and convincing argument (not one from some government yes man with no professional experience or even appreciation of the peculiar situation window cleaners find themselves in on a daily basis) then I would be happy to attend any discussion.
Until then I will continue to advise all who ask me to place their trust in the people who had their own interests at heart when they designed our ladder and be very wary of 'official' advice from faceless HSE 'experts' who have never spent a day actually practising what they preach, i.e. out cleaning windows on a variety of real properties and facing real situations as all window cleaners do every day of their working lives.
Excellent post Ian,
I started in 1970's with the UK's oldest commercial window cleaning company
The Great International Plate Glass Window Cleaning Company
As a Tumbler
Went on to become New Century
Worked on several well known companies
I was part of a specialist access team and included Three part ladder work
All my ladder work centred around A frame ladders
Agree with your comments
However not for access and egress onto roofs
Spent about sixteen years on the tools before going into management of window cleaning operations
Specialised in suspended and mobile elevated work platform window cleaning
Have spent 35 years plus in one way or another in the window cleaning industry
Ian most forum users on Clean IT Up don't get me when it comes to Health and safety as if they meet me or attend our workshops they will know I am far from some health and safety nut case. I do feel I understand legislation but am looking to challenge the FWC and HSE during 2013 to have some clear guidance. I have written to the FWC last week and will approach them next week to ask them to hold an open debate at the cleaning show. If they except could be interesting, and I would welcome your and others input.
Also some of the forum users with strong health and safety opinions come along, or just keep having a pop on here and get nowhere
Regards
Andy
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Hi Darren, that was not mine, I was highlighting what woods have on there website, give them a shout. Cheers, Dave
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I also would like to Invite Ian to attend so he can put his views across to a panel I am inviting including the FWC, HSE and some important established professional window cleaners.
That's very kind of you Andrew. However before I would consider attending any sort of discussion regarding safety while cleaning windows there is one very pertinent point I have raised many times and to which I require a satisfactory answer but have never received one.
In the earliest days of window cleaning the 'point' ladder was the tool of choice for experienced window cleaners. Originally just a single to access tall ground floor windows (predominently shops and similar structures), it was developed specifically for use in situations where ideal conditions rarely existed, i.e. firm LEVEL ground, flat vertical surfaces etc. It also had to address the fact that the duration of use was so short that cumbersome safety precautions necessary with 'open ended' ladders were ignored, resulting in accidents.
In collaboration with window cleaners, Shaftesbury Ladders of London developed the window cleaner's Combination Ladder, otherwise known as a Tree-Bottomed Point.
This ladder was carefully designed to address the problem of uneven ground, narrow upper landing points where there was not room for the two ends of an 'open ender' and restricted access where ideal positioning was compromised.
The basic difference is simple geometry: "Any three points must lie in the same plane". In other words, except in extreme cases if a pointed ladder is set against a wall, all three ends MUST be in contact with the ground/wall. Narrowing the top of the ladder reduced stability, so the feet were splayed wide to prevent twisting.
These ladders were used almost exclusively throughout the 40's, 50's 60's and well into the 70's and only began to wane in popularity with the increasing number of 'new' window cleaners entering the trade with no proper training and no knowledge of the existance of the 'correct' ladder.
An 'open ender' ladder is a GENERAL PURPOSE ladder. It is not designed for window cleaning; in my opinion, based on my considerable experience and training, it is totally unsuitable for the purpose.
A 'Combination' or 'Tree Bottomed Point' (now also referred to as an 'A' ladder) is specifically designed for window cleaning by professionals who knew exactly what they needed and is ideally suited to the purpose if the user receives correct training in its use.
My question, obviously, is why does every 'safety' course deal only with the use of General Purpose ladders and why does the HSE deny the existence of the Window Cleaners ladder and not seek to provide proper professional training in its use by people who know how it was intended to be used by the original designers?
If I were to receive a considered and convincing argument (not one from some government yes man with no professional experience or even appreciation of the peculiar situation window cleaners find themselves in on a daily basis) then I would be happy to attend any discussion.
Until then I will continue to advise all who ask me to place their trust in the people who had their own interests at heart when they designed our ladder and be very wary of 'official' advice from faceless HSE 'experts' who have never spent a day actually practising what they preach, i.e. out cleaning windows on a variety of real properties and facing real situations as all window cleaners do every day of their working lives.
Excellent post Ian,
I started in 1970's with the UK's oldest commercial window cleaning company
The Great International Plate Glass Window Cleaning Company
As a Tumbler
Went on to become New Century
Worked on several well known companies
I was part of a specialist access team and included Three part ladder work
All my ladder work centred around A frame ladders
Agree with your comments
However not for access and egress onto roofs
Spent about sixteen years on the tools before going into management of window cleaning operations
Specialised in suspended and mobile elevated work platform window cleaning
Have spent 35 years plus in one way or another in the window cleaning industry
Ian most forum users on Clean IT Up don't get me when it comes to Health and safety as if they meet me or attend our workshops they will know I am far from some health and safety nut case. I do feel I understand legislation but am looking to challenge the FWC and HSE during 2013 to have some clear guidance. I have written to the FWC last week and will approach them next week to ask them to hold an open debate at the cleaning show. If they except could be interesting, and I would welcome your and others input.
Also some of the forum users with strong health and safety opinions come along, or just keep having a pop on here and get nowhere
Regards
Andy
Sorry also to answer your post we include A frame ladders within our workshops, and include them in our ladder training
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I've never given out dangerous advice, I don't want the blood on my hands,
Yes you HAVE given out dangerous advice. Here it is.
As for the tanks they are safe too, the straps will help stop movement in a crash.
How often do people check there metal frame bolts, the base of the van can rust in time and become very weak, then the tank is just sitting there without being strongly bolted. Seen it with others things that have been bolted down.
Video of a crash tested rachet straps
http://youtu.be/UW5WsjZoPeA
Crash tested before straps fitted
http://youtu.be/oFe4FBuEt8k
When the videos you choose show NOTHING at all about them being safe to stop over six times the weight used in the test.
If you think thats not dangerous advice, I dont know what is. Some people could come on here and believe that you know what youre talking about when it comes to tank safety. YOU DONT!
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I've never given out dangerous advice, I don't want the blood on my hands,
Yes you HAVE given out dangerous advice. Here it is.
As for the tanks they are safe too, the straps will help stop movement in a crash.
How often do people check there metal frame bolts, the base of the van can rust in time and become very weak, then the tank is just sitting there without being strongly bolted. Seen it with others things that have been bolted down.
Video of a crash tested rachet straps
http://youtu.be/UW5WsjZoPeA
Crash tested before straps fitted
http://youtu.be/oFe4FBuEt8k
When the videos you choose show NOTHING at all about them being safe to stop over six times the weight used in the test.
If you think thats not dangerous advice, I dont know what is. Some people could come on here and believe that you know what youre talking about when it comes to tank safety. YOU DONT!
we was taking about my van, my tanks and my fitting, i never told anyone how to do it or to just use straps.
i know that the tanks that are in my van are safe. you know nothing about how i have done it etc you are only guessing!
if joe bloggs just fitted them that didnt know what they was doing or what they was using then they are not safe.
no advise was given!
advise is :- yes anyone can use straps, yes you can use straps, i reccommend using them etc etc thats advise,
i have never said that to anyone!
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R.C., Those videos are a bit misleading tbh (not having a go).
Anyone who thinks a heavy load that's just held down with straps and not against the bulkhead, isn't going to move, is a tad foolish... I have used straps in the past, but only with the tank firmly against the vans bulkhead.
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R.C., Those videos are a bit misleading tbh (not having a go).
Anyone who thinks a heavy load that's just held down with straps and not against the bulkhead, isn't going to move, is a tad foolish... I have used straps in the past, but only with the tank firmly against the vans bulkhead.
thats ok, it was only a ment as a demo on what strap can take, (that was a light weight to some of the uses they have! lol
the videos are on the internet anyway so anyone can see them, think i found them by googling are cargo straps safe or something like that,
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R.C., Those videos are a bit misleading tbh (not having a go).
Anyone who thinks a heavy load that's just held down with straps and not against the bulkhead, isn't going to move, is a tad foolish... I have used straps in the past, but only with the tank firmly against the vans bulkhead.
That is stupid advice !!
Bulkhead will not support your tank during the crash
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What will then?
Edited to add.. my tank is caged and bolted through the floor. A factory bulkhead (mine is a Renault Trafic) is pretty substantial.
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Cheers Kent.
Wow, this is turning into a bit of a cat fight.
Shame really, we're all only giving our opinions anyway. We could all be wrong given the right (wrong?) circumstances.
And it started out so nice by someone giving us all free photo's if we wanted them.
Impact43 will be perfect for someone. Someone else might think little of them.
Personally, I'm not a fan. But my wife (who sorts paperwork out) can't rate them high enough!
Anyone can give advice, it's always going to be down to each individual to do what they think is right (and safe) for them.
Just my opinion.
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Just for you kentkleen I have one full time staff and yes in house training. Just to let you know I have ben cleaning windows since 14 with my dad and grandad im now 28. So 14 years in the trade and only once have I hurt myself which was my fault I went up a ladder 2 floors up and it slipped which to be honest I knew it was going to happen but still went up. But then who am I to say some thing you been cleaning what 3 years mate. I think a lot of you are just stupid if you need to keep going on acourse for everything. How.much was the course you went on to learn how to leave your house safely.
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Just for you kentkleen I have one full time staff and yes in house training. Just to let you know I have ben cleaning windows since 14 with my dad and grandad im now 28. So 14 years in the trade and only once have I hurt myself which was my fault I went up a ladder 2 floors up and it slipped which to be honest I knew it was going to happen but still went up. But then who am I to say some thing you been cleaning what 3 years mate. I think a lot of you are just stupid if you need to keep going on acourse for everything. How.much was the course you went on to learn how to leave your house safely.
only cleaning for 4 year, but working on ladders for the past 17 years, never had an accedent on them. back when i first started on them i was safe to carry bricks up them and all sorts of heavy equipment, brick bucket was on a pole that you had to hold the bottom of the pole with one hand pole went up over the sholder and then the bucket bit was above your head with all the bricks in, some guys was proberly taking excess of 25kg and still climbing ladders!
but times change.
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This was not aimed at you its aimed at kent kleen who likes to pop up now and again with useless things. I totaly agree with you how things change but some people take hse to far and worry over nothing and seem to make new laws up to suit them the try and scaremainer people if you tell them there wrong
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I also would like to Invite Ian to attend so he can put his views across to a panel I am inviting including the FWC, HSE and some important established professional window cleaners.
That's very kind of you Andrew. However before I would consider attending any sort of discussion regarding safety while cleaning windows there is one very pertinent point I have raised many times and to which I require a satisfactory answer but have never received one.
In the earliest days of window cleaning the 'point' ladder was the tool of choice for experienced window cleaners. Originally just a single to access tall ground floor windows (predominently shops and similar structures), it was developed specifically for use in situations where ideal conditions rarely existed, i.e. firm LEVEL ground, flat vertical surfaces etc. It also had to address the fact that the duration of use was so short that cumbersome safety precautions necessary with 'open ended' ladders were ignored, resulting in accidents.
In collaboration with window cleaners, Shaftesbury Ladders of London developed the window cleaner's Combination Ladder, otherwise known as a Tree-Bottomed Point.
This ladder was carefully designed to address the problem of uneven ground, narrow upper landing points where there was not room for the two ends of an 'open ender' and restricted access where ideal positioning was compromised.
The basic difference is simple geometry: "Any three points must lie in the same plane". In other words, except in extreme cases if a pointed ladder is set against a wall, all three ends MUST be in contact with the ground/wall. Narrowing the top of the ladder reduced stability, so the feet were splayed wide to prevent twisting.
These ladders were used almost exclusively throughout the 40's, 50's 60's and well into the 70's and only began to wane in popularity with the increasing number of 'new' window cleaners entering the trade with no proper training and no knowledge of the existance of the 'correct' ladder.
An 'open ender' ladder is a GENERAL PURPOSE ladder. It is not designed for window cleaning; in my opinion, based on my considerable experience and training, it is totally unsuitable for the purpose.
A 'Combination' or 'Tree Bottomed Point' (now also referred to as an 'A' ladder) is specifically designed for window cleaning by professionals who knew exactly what they needed and is ideally suited to the purpose if the user receives correct training in its use.
My question, obviously, is why does every 'safety' course deal only with the use of General Purpose ladders and why does the HSE deny the existence of the Window Cleaners ladder and not seek to provide proper professional training in its use by people who know how it was intended to be used by the original designers?
If I were to receive a considered and convincing argument (not one from some government yes man with no professional experience or even appreciation of the peculiar situation window cleaners find themselves in on a daily basis) then I would be happy to attend any discussion.
Until then I will continue to advise all who ask me to place their trust in the people who had their own interests at heart when they designed our ladder and be very wary of 'official' advice from faceless HSE 'experts' who have never spent a day actually practising what they preach, i.e. out cleaning windows on a variety of real properties and facing real situations as all window cleaners do every day of their working lives.
Must take my hat off to you sir Ian, this a true professional talking.
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This was not aimed at you its aimed at kent kleen who likes to pop up now and again with useless things. I totaly agree with you how things change but some people take hse to far and worry over nothing and seem to make new laws up to suit them the try and scaremainer people if you tell them there wrong
ok, soz.
yer i think some of it does too, just the way things are going really, like a lot of other things in life. sad world we are living in
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I totaly agree mate. This country has been ruined by the hse and claim culture we live in
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I totaly agree mate. This country has been ruined by the hse and claim culture we live in
yer lot of it came from the usa with the no win no fee stuff and everyone suing everyone else!
plus the govement dont help either! lol
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These HSE lot have got to be able to justify their jobs,so they sit in their nice warm conference rooms Brainstorming :P with each other,looking for anything and everything that could be deemed to be unsafe so they can put in a procedure and run along to their boss and say look what i have come up with.
ps- I am not totally against Health and Safety but IMO they do take it too far at times.
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I just love this forum!
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Me too! ;D
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Just for you kentkleen I have one full time staff and yes in house training. Just to let you know I have ben cleaning windows since 14 with my dad and grandad im now 28. So 14 years in the trade and only once have I hurt myself which was my fault I went up a ladder 2 floors up and it slipped which to be honest I knew it was going to happen but still went up. But then who am I to say some thing you been cleaning what 3 years mate. I think a lot of you are just stupid if you need to keep going on acourse for everything. How.much was the course you went on to learn how to leave your house safely.
Yes thats right I am a thick stupid window cleaner, I started window cleaning aged 17 straight from school I am now 38 and have been water fed pole for 3 years.
You had made a few comments putting down the need for 'proper' certified training and yet you seem to promote h&s on your site in fact you try to use it as one of your selling points.
You dont in fact have a clean safety record as you have clearly announced your little mishap. As you put it, you knewthey where going to slip and yet you still tryed to climb them. I am just glad for you that they did not slip when you where higher up.
Sorry in advance for any more of my pointless remarks, just remember I AM A THICK WINDOW CLEANER.
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Just for the record I fell from the top and broke both arms and ankle and to clear it up inwas working for my dad at the time so no my company has not had any mishaps thanks mr stupid
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Just out of interest , how many of you would have used the same methods that i did ?
As some of you are aware , i have the gutter vac , but on this job it would have been useless , the pitched roof was the full length of the building bar 2 metres at one side , no access was available from the other side , it was around 10 metres deep leading onto a steel corrugated shed roof of about 2 metres of depth , no vac even with carbon poles was usable .
The front of the building was a chore for a vac too , balcony one side and pitched tile roof to the other , the angles for the vac poles would have been horrendous for the human back !
OK , Scaffold would then be the only other safest option , a little bit uncalled for me thinks !
So come on then , would you have done as i did , honest answers please !
Rich
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Just out of interest , how many of you would have used the same methods that i did ?
As some of you are aware , i have the gutter vac , but on this job it would have been useless , the pitched roof was the full length of the building bar 2 metres at one side , no access was available from the other side , it was around 10 metres deep leading onto a steel corrugated shed roof of about 2 metres of depth , no vac even with carbon poles was usable .
The front of the building was a chore for a vac too , balcony one side and pitched tile roof to the other , the angles for the vac poles would have been horrendous for the human back !
OK , Scaffold would then be the only other safest option , a little bit uncalled for me thinks !
So come on then , would you have done as i did , honest answers please !
Rich
aye me
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Just for the record I fell from the top and broke both arms and ankle and to clear it up inwas working for my dad at the time so no my company has not had any mishaps thanks mr stupid
I would invest in some proper 'certified' training in the use of ladders. ;D
Seriously glad you are ok tho. I do like your website and your pricing. Fair play to you Ben!
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Thankyou Stuart M , i know we disagreed a while back about the other pic i posted with the dude doing cavity insulation , but that was pure risk at that angle in soft ground .
And those muppets on the roof spoke for itself .
Rich
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Just out of interest , how many of you would have used the same methods that i did ?
As some of you are aware , i have the gutter vac , but on this job it would have been useless , the pitched roof was the full length of the building bar 2 metres at one side , no access was available from the other side , it was around 10 metres deep leading onto a steel corrugated shed roof of about 2 metres of depth , no vac even with carbon poles was usable .
The front of the building was a chore for a vac too , balcony one side and pitched tile roof to the other , the angles for the vac poles would have been horrendous for the human back !
OK , Scaffold would then be the only other safest option , a little bit uncalled for me thinks !
So come on then , would you have done as i did , honest answers please !
Rich
questions before answer,
was anyone in?
plus in the pic with the ladder leaning on the sloped roof, was there room for the ladder to lean onto the house wall?
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No they were all out Rich
Rich
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sorry added another question,
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Yeh just noticed , i could have done that but as said earlier it would have left the base of the ladder unfooted on mossy steps , the direction i took meant a six foot high wall footed it for me.
Rich
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ok cheers,
i would of tried to do it when they was in and carried our platform step and used that on the balcony. for that one,
then if therewas room set my ladders with a stand off to the main house wall and used our gutter pole and hook to drag the bits to us and empty it that way.
as no one was in,
extended the ladders above the balcony rail and gained access that way then either pulled up either our step ladders or platform step to use that.
do you have anyone that you could do them with? like a part part time worker or friend just to help foot ladders carry all the kit for you etc?
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rich
they would all have or they all have done it in the past ;D ;D ;D
rich :P
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Franky rich bad boy feel the love .......
Would you ?
Rich
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R.C , i get you one minute then you blow me away the next !!!
From what you just said , it would have been safer to foot the ladder with a stand off on mossy steps for the back ?????
Then over extend a ladder for the front against railings giving it the perfect opportunity to slide either way with no railing spindles to stop it , then if you are lucky enough to clamber over the rail without falling off , you would use what i think you call a platform step , i think of them as a plasterers hop up , these would put you 2 foot higher against the railing height with no point of solid contact for one hand at least , i used the professional A frame thus giving one of my hands a point of contact .
I do believe that i took the best and safest option for the job ;D
Also , why the customer in or out bit , surely you dont mean that you cut safety corners if they are out , or do you get them to foot your ladder if they are in ;)
Rich
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have done it yes and probaly done a lot worst as well and not affaid to say so.
is it right or is it wrong ??? ??? ??? ???
rich yes i do feel the love baby
=franky loves you all
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Thanks kentklean the website is nearly finished I was only 16 so 12 years ago user error on that one I was two floors up with one foot on the ladder the other foot on the window sill trying to reach a bit of guttering and the ladder slipped next thing I new I was in an abulance lol least im still here
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LOVE YA FRANKY :-*
Rich
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Rich - i'd of done exactly the same as you mate.
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James your just PUURRRFECT !
Rich
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With all this H and S I think on the grounds of self preservation I will stay in bed ;)
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R.C , i get you one minute then you blow me away the next !!!
From what you just said , it would have been safer to foot the ladder with a stand off on mossy steps for the back ?????
Then over extend a ladder for the front against railings giving it the perfect opportunity to slide either way with no railing spindles to stop it , then if you are lucky enough to clamber over the rail without falling off , you would use what i think you call a platform step , i think of them as a plasterers hop up , these would put you 2 foot higher against the railing height with no point of solid contact for one hand at least , i used the professional A frame thus giving one of my hands a point of contact .
I do believe that i took the best and safest option for the job ;D
Also , why the customer in or out bit , surely you dont mean that you cut safety corners if they are out , or do you get them to foot your ladder if they are in ;)
Rich
I was saying what we do, I have person come out with me on gutter cleans and help do things like foot ladders etc,
if the ladder was set right it wouldn't slide, as this is how it's done when you gain access to a flat roof etc.
No I got a platform separate that is nearly 1m off the ground not those small ones. They are safe to use. As you would need 2 hands anyway even if you are on ladder!
If the customers was in I would say that I need access through the house to get onto the balcony, this way you won't need to use ladders to get access over the railings.
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When I used to be an aircraft engineer, there were various courses that we could go on, it wasn't compulsory, but we could go on them if we wanted to. Some would go just to have a skive, other went, because it made them feel important that they were getting sent one training course, it would be something to boast about to their friends, to make their job sound really important.
I get the impression that the same applies to a lot of the pro training course members on here. It makes them feel like they actually have an important business and that they HAVE to keep up with the latest legislation, and when they go down the pub they can tell all their mates that they have been on ANOTHER important traing course (that's if they still have any and bored them to death telling them how dangerous ladders are for the 100th time).
But sadly we are all JUST cleaners nothing more nothing less, and no amount of training courses are ever going to change that.
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+1 Lee.
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No Lee. We are entrepreneurs. ;)
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No Lee. We are entrepreneurs. ;)
Entrepreneurs do not clean windows ;)
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R.C . have you ever cleaned a window without wfp ?
The thing is when i was on the rungs doing it the "old" way i only had two hands , 1 to hold the ladder and 1 to mop/blade , are you telling me you have 3 hands as both your hands clearly stay on the ladder , or are you another 1 trick pony that only got into w/c cos wfp made it easy for you ?
Rich
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R.C . have you ever cleaned a window without wfp ?
The thing is when i was on the rungs doing it the "old" way i only had two hands , 1 to hold the ladder and 1 to mop/blade , are you telling me you have 3 hands as both your hands clearly stay on the ladder , or are you another 1 trick pony that only got into w/c cos wfp made it easy for you ?
Rich
tell the truth now Rich, you ran up the ladder with no hands on the ladder and your three points of contact were feet and a knee ;D it was how I worked ;)
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Stu M , from now on i will do as i see fit , if i wish to hop up my ladder blindfolded with a house brick tied to my knackers then i will , it just seems to me that whatever so called push for safety that whatever body wishes to put forward gets the attention and subsiquent panic from people who climbed a ladder every day without a thought , now all of a sudden its seen as unprofessional to even own a ladder , wake up you gimps , the ladder will always have a home .
Did the SKY man scaffold your house when he put your dish on ? (NO) but you are happy to watch telly in the knowledge that he may have fallen from the ladder and left a wife and kids alone for a bit of money .
Two sides to every coin , but some people only see their side of the coin when it suits them ;D
Its a bit like R.C.he never overloads his overloaded van , yet to do the job this all started from he now says that he would have taken a 1 metre high platform , no doubt made of lightweight material and his mate to foot the ladder in order to pass it up to th balcony .........So R.C. has a payload of 600kg , 400kg is gone in water and tanks , thus leaving 200kg .......well i think that just went out the windie with 2 men , 1 platform , diesel in tank , 64gb tablet , and all that wooden boxing in and tat that i saw in the Lee Burbidge (whats in your van feature on YOUTUBE) .
Some could say i have a bee in my bonnet , but im cool , trust me !!!
Rich
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Stu M , from now on i will do as i see fit , if i wish to hop up my ladder blindfolded with a house brick tied to my knackers then i will , it just seems to me that whatever so called push for safety that whatever body wishes to put forward gets the attention and subsiquent panic from people who climbed a ladder every day without a thought , now all of a sudden its seen as unprofessional to even own a ladder , wake up you gimps , the ladder will always have a home .
Did the SKY man scaffold your house when he put your dish on ? (NO) but you are happy to watch telly in the knowledge that he may have fallen from the ladder and left a wife and kids alone for a bit of money .
Two sides to every coin , but some people only see their side of the coin when it suits them ;D
Its a bit like R.C.he never overloads his overloaded van , yet to do the job this all started from he now says that he would have taken a 1 metre high platform , no doubt made of lightweight material and his mate to foot the ladder in order to pass it up to th balcony .........So R.C. has a payload of 600kg , 400kg is gone in water and tanks , thus leaving 200kg .......well i think that just went out the windie with 2 men , 1 platform , diesel in tank , 64gb tablet , and all that wooden boxing in and tat that i saw in the Lee Burbidge (whats in your van feature on YOUTUBE) .
Some could say i have a bee in my bonnet , but im cool , trust me !!!
Rich
400kg hasnt gone on water, guess you cant do maths, 1 125lt + 1 250lt= ????
the 250lt cant be filled right up so making it around 200-225 and the 125 cant either due to the shape of it, so making that around 100lt
so a max of at least 300-325lts!
as i have said before, i have had the van weighed and passed by police approved people!
when i do gutters with the other guy i have no water in the van as i book them all in for the same day,
yes i have cleaned windows without wfp,
i have 17 years on ladders in total, not all window cleaning in the building trade (other side of my business)
i have access to any access equipment i want as father in laws owns his own tool hire company so i only use the top rated equpment when needed.
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Now i know that lots of you are thinking ..... what is his prob with R.C ..... its nowt personal he just tore in first , it could well have been Mr Willis that got the first post in , i have given him the go ahead to use pics and quotes , only because i know that most of the people in the next class will be sat there thinking "to be honest , thats what i would have done "......... before i got brainwashed ;D ;D ;D
No offence Mr W , you do what you do, and i'll do my voodoo :)
Rich (not dead yet) ;D
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Now i know that lots of you are thinking ..... what is his prob with R.C ..... its nowt personal he just tore in first , it could well have been Mr Willis that got the first post in , i have given him the go ahead to use pics and quotes , only because i know that most of the people in the next class will be sat there thinking "to be honest , thats what i would have done "......... before i got brainwashed ;D ;D ;D
No offence Mr W , you do what you do, and i'll do my voodoo :)
Rich (not dead yet) ;D
check back i wasnt the first!
all i said it wasnt the safest but at least they are clean!
and you even admitted that it wasnt and you could of used your gutter vac but didnt! lol
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
it is only a forum lads, you are allowed to disagree ;D
calm down
do as you see fit and live with it is all I would say
I think you both get that so hope I haven't peed anyone off
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
it is only a forum lads, you are allowed to disagree ;D
calm down
do as you see fit and live with it is all I would say
I think you both get that so hope I haven't peed anyone off
yer you are right,
not peed me off anyway lol ;D
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NO , NO, NO , Hes still overloaded i wont hear of it Stu ;D ;D ;D
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Ohhh OK then R.C are we friends again :'( ?
Rich ;D
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Ohhh OK then R.C are we friends again :'( ?
Rich ;D
was we friends in the first place? lol ;)
its only words at the end of the day!
virtual handshake?? no spit tho! lol
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night lads ;D
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night lads ;D
night, or shall i say morning?? ?? lol
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No , definately no spit bud , it makes the rungs slippy , did Andrew not mention that ;D ;D ;D
Rich
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No , definately no spit bud , it makes the rungs slippy , did Andrew not mention that ;D ;D ;D
Rich
thought spit gave grip?? thats what it was like in some old films when they was going to pick up something heavy lol