Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: DG Cleaning on February 02, 2013, 08:25:52 am
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I've been thinking of getting a controller, it would mean filling the van less probably save on resin too. I've seen a few folk on here (who are more experienced than me) say its better to use a very high flow and work quicker. If so is there any point in having a controller?
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Not for me.
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I've worked both ways and a controller is the way to go! Saves water, saves battery power and just makes the job so much easier. ;)
Be warned though, many on here don't know how to use them or fully understand how they work either, so be prepared for some silly answers. :)
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Without a shadow of a doubt you need to get one.
The normal pressure and flow from a 100psi pump (that's what we use as it runs 2 poles) is 4 or 5 times what you need for 1 pole.
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I've not used one yet but 400L lasts me a day with a bit left over, and battery is ok. Not sure if I work fast or not as I've never watched anyone do it (mostly trad wc in Barnsley). Seems to me if you have a very high flow then what's the point of a controller?
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Seems to me if you have a very high flow then what's the point of a controller?
You are not going to increase the flow with a controller, the pump is set to maximum without one. The point of the controller is to reduce the flow so you use less water.
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I know its to reduce the flow, my point being that if you have your controller set to the max then surely that negates the need for it
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If you want to save water then yes, definetly get a controller, get yourself the gardiners liquid logic controller, I have got 2, and they are 2.5 years old and have never had a problem, once the calibration is set properly you will it have a problem.
The varistream controller seems to have problem from what I have read and do not seem as reliable, I could be wrong though.
Some people have problems with digital controllers because they do not set them up properly, or there is a problem with dirty connections.
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I know its to reduce the flow, my point being that if you have your controller set to the max then surely that negates the need for it
Of course putting a controller in and setting it to max is a bit pointless. No one does that though surely?
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A few people on here in the last few weeks have said they use a very high flow rate to get through work quicker
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I've been thinking of getting a controller, it would mean filling the van less probably save on resin too. I've seen a few folk on here (who are more experienced than me) say its better to use a very high flow and work quicker. If so is there any point in having a controller?
That would be like downgrading from a Jaguar to a Ford Fiesta.
Flow controllers are for girls.
That is all.
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Having a higher flow doesn't make a window any cleaner or make you clean them quicker.
Would you rather save water and still clean windows at the same speed and to the same quality? Makes sense to me.
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i disagree james.you can work far quicker with a high flow rate IMO.esp on regular maintenance cleans where the windows are not too dirty.you can rinse quicker and clean some windows in less than 10 seconds.
i have a flow controller set at 70-80.
the last few weeks ive been shaving at least an hour a day (off time taken with a lower flow rate.)just goes to show even after 3 years of wfp i can still learn something!! ;) ;D ;D ;D
best wishes
dazmond
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I remember when I first put my system together, I had no controller and garden hose pipe. After cleaning 1 house and using 250 litres I knew controllers were a must ;D
Now, we have 6mm hose and controller on about a quarter, windows get perfectly clean and water lasts all day :D
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I've been thinking of getting a controller, it would mean filling the van less probably save on resin too. I've seen a few folk on here (who are more experienced than me) say its better to use a very high flow and work quicker. If so is there any point in having a controller?
That would be like downgrading from a Jaguar to a Ford Fiesta.
Flow controllers are for girls.
That is all.
Thanks Tosh ;D
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Absolute waste of time and money. I ditched mine.
Just put a tap on your belt between the pole hose and the reel hose if you want to reduce the flow.
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I stand by my statement in reply No-2. ;)
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DG ive got one for sale if you are intrested £50 like new im only in barnsley aswell
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DG ive got one for sale if you are intrested £50 like new im only in barnsley aswell
Cheers mate, I've actually ordered a variable speed controller to build one myself. If I get round to it I'll try that. I have a pole tap that I turn off between windows so I can manage withheld 400L but filling is a pain because I haven't got a drive to park on that's the only reason i'd consider a controller.
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I remember when I first put my system together, I had no controller and garden hose pipe. After cleaning 1 house and using 250 litres I knew controllers were a must ;D
Now, we have 6mm hose and controller on about a quarter, windows get perfectly clean and water lasts all day :D
Thats not because you've got a controller thats because you've not got 1/2" pipe.
A 1/2" hose-pipe will use 4 times the amount of water than a 6mm pipe.
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when you get a large roand and havge to have 2 people working of a 400 litre tank you learn to turn the flow down also id like to say it gets to a certain point where it doesnt matter weather its full speed or half i clean same speed whatever full flow just makes a big spray of mess and the water on the floor twice as much not necessary at all in my opinion. and i have tried everything when it comes to wfp now
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i have found that when i only had a 200gpd ro i was running my controller at about 30 on the display,now i can make pure water quicker i am running between 60-70 now,because it doesnt take 24hrs to fill a tank!
Find im working quicker and better now i dont worry about how much water i use!
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I remember when I first put my system together, I had no controller and garden hose pipe. After cleaning 1 house and using 250 litres I knew controllers were a must ;D
Now, we have 6mm hose and controller on about a quarter, windows get perfectly clean and water lasts all day :D
Thats not because you've got a controller thats because you've not got 1/2" pipe.
A 1/2" hose-pipe will use 4 times the amount of water than a 6mm pipe.
Fully aware of that.
Not that I have tried, but a flow controller along with 1/2" pipe, surely would have an effect, as opposed to just the pipe?
What I was trying to say i that in general, having controller and 6mm.
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personally i think its a good idea to learn to wfp with as little
water as possible for many reasons...one being in extreme cold circumstances
it reduces amount you leave behind
i use a reasonably high flow on really filthy first cleans but on
maintenance cleans i use a lower flow but my speed of cleaning is
no slower in fact on quite a few maintenance clean i barely rinse at
all.
a flow controller is a good way of learning how best to utilise
your water,its all about having confidence in what you are doing
using a high flow mentally gives you the confidence to literally
fly round but the amount of water being used isnt necesarily needed
and you can be just as quick using less
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In extreme cold a slower flow increases the risk of the water stopping altogether.
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In extreme cold a slower flow increases the risk of the water stopping altogether.
i have never had that happen..im not talking about a trickle coming out
anyway, i learnt early on how to use areduced flow in cold circumstances
as in many customers were not happy about me putting
salt down to compensate for excess water lying about.
using a high flow naturally gives someone the confidence to clean quickly
but you dont necessarily need to use all that water to clean the window
so you arenot getting best use out of your resources.it all boils down
to confidence in what you are doing and not necessarily flow rate
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I find if when rinsing there is more bouncing off the window than running down it then its to high. There is a happy medium between to fast and to slow if you can take the time to find it. Also on older wooden windows i'm not too keen on it sending bits of varnish and flaking paint running down the window !!
Whilst i'm on has anyone any experience with these..............
(Mod note: link deleted; it mucked up the forum layout; if you want to use long links use tiny url (google for it)).
if that link don;t work its ebay
160968153035
Item number:
I like the liquid logic /spring controllers, and the old varistream ones. Not had much luck with the new varistream ones. The ebay ones above work out at £48 delivered?
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I've used flow controllers in the past.
Now I don't bother and life is much easier.
For some jobs and in some circumstances when I need to regulate the flow, I use a voltage regulator which costs under £20. Most of the time though it's set on full voltage.
My view is that a flow controllers are made by companies to just make money by coming up with spurious reasons why you need one and they make something very simple more complicated.
Have you ever read of anyone on this forum having a problem by not using a flow controller?
On the other hand, how many postings get posted regularly about members having a problem who use a flow controller?
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I've used flow controllers in the past.
Now I don't bother and life is much easier.
For some jobs and in some circumstances when I need to regulate the flow, I use a voltage regulator which costs under £20. Most of the time though it's set on full voltage.
My view is that a flow controllers are made by companies to just make money by coming up with spurious reasons why you need one and they make something very simple more complicated.
Have you ever read of anyone on this forum having a problem by not using a flow controller?
On the other hand, how many postings get posted regularly about members having a problem who use a flow controller?
I stand by my statement in reply No-2.
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WFPing for 8 years and used all methods, backpack, trolly, and van mount.
Ive had 1000L, 500L, 350L and 125L tanks.
IMO the higher the flow the quicker you work the more you earn.
The slowest is using a backpack with a trickle. The fastest is with 500-1000L.
I earnt more with a fast flow.
I now have 350L and with a few other tweeks I am as fast as with 500L.
A flow controller is not worth having if you have room for a BIG tank.
If earning £150 with a backpack you will turn over £200 with a higher flow.
Why wouldn't you want an extra £50 per day?
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There isn't even an argument over flow rate here! Yes, there is an "optimum" flow rate but any more than this & you're just wasting water.
For me, flow rate is one of the least reasons for using a controller.
Anyone who has never used one & "thinks" they are just fine as they are- well, that's just what I used to think before I changed over to a controller about 5 years ago.
It does make me wonder sometimes how some people manage to chew bubble gum & walk at the same time! ;D
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My view is that a flow controllers are made by companies to just make money by coming up with spurious reasons why you need one and they make something very simple more complicated.
That is an interesting thought. A little history here is useful, the firm that now makes most of the flow controllers for the WFP market originally did not even know about this industry and so was not looking at a way of making money from them. They were approached by a window cleaner (not myself) who wanted to save water and also battery power. They have worked on from here - their aim is still to make products that have real benefits - yes they make money from these but generally every new product they release is 'window cleaner led' not their own ideas.
Personally speaking most of my WFP life has been spent with no controllers at all. I have always liked a good flow rate and as such used a powerful duplex pump which could easily power either 1 or 2 reels of 100m of Microbore hose. When only using one reel I never found the need to turn the flow down as I find more water is better.
We started selling controllers in our supply firm about 4 years ago purely because clients were asking for them. I only started using them myself about 2 years ago and my main reason was to help conserve battery power. I was finding that two powerful pumps running off the same battery on a split charger system would kill the battery after about 12 months. I have found since adding controllers that although I still have the setting fairly high at about 75 it puts a lot less strain on the battery and my latest battery is 2 years old is still going strong - for me this was a definite improvement and more important than exact flow rate control of the water. In reality though I have also noticed that the van tank does stay fuller for longer which if needed would mean that I could work for longer each day.
I would still say that if you are able to carry plenty of water with you and have no battery life concerns then a controller is not needed as long as you use a pump with a robust pressure switch such as the Flojet pumps.
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There isn't even an argument over flow rate here! Yes, there is an "optimum" flow rate but any more than this & you're just wasting water.
For me, flow rate is one of the least reasons for using a controller.
Anyone who has never used one & "thinks" they are just fine as they are- well, that's just what I used to think before I changed over to a controller about 5 years ago.
It does make me wonder sometimes how some people manage to chew bubble gum & walk at the same time! ;D
Just because you assert yourself three or four times saying the same thing doesn't make it so. But hey, you carry on. ;)
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I've not used one yet but 400L lasts me a day with a bit left over, and battery is ok. Not sure if I work fast or not as I've never watched anyone do it (mostly trad wc in Barnsley). Seems to me if you have a very high flow then what's the point of a controller?
because there is a cross over point where your just wasting water, how ever fast you work , this is where the controller comes in and makes the water saving
Also shuts pump down so saves battery and keeps pump cooler as it shuts down when you shut water off at pole
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There isn't even an argument over flow rate here! Yes, there is an "optimum" flow rate but any more than this & you're just wasting water.
For me, flow rate is one of the least reasons for using a controller.
Anyone who has never used one & "thinks" they are just fine as they are- well, that's just what I used to think before I changed over to a controller about 5 years ago.
It does make me wonder sometimes how some people manage to chew bubble gum & walk at the same time! ;D
Just because you assert yourself three or four times saying the same thing doesn't make it so. But hey, you carry on. ;)
I take it you haven't fathomed the bubble gum trick yet then Gold? :-X
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There isn't even an argument over flow rate here! Yes, there is an "optimum" flow rate but any more than this & you're just wasting water.
For me, flow rate is one of the least reasons for using a controller.
Anyone who has never used one & "thinks" they are just fine as they are- well, that's just what I used to think before I changed over to a controller about 5 years ago.
It does make me wonder sometimes how some people manage to chew bubble gum & walk at the same time! ;D
What's the optimum flow rate?
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There isn't even an argument over flow rate here! Yes, there is an "optimum" flow rate but any more than this & you're just wasting water.
For me, flow rate is one of the least reasons for using a controller.
Anyone who has never used one & "thinks" they are just fine as they are- well, that's just what I used to think before I changed over to a controller about 5 years ago.
It does make me wonder sometimes how some people manage to chew bubble gum & walk at the same time! ;D
What's the optimum flow rate?
enough to clean a window :)
like i said before how quick you work doesnt necessarily have anything
to do with having a high flow rate it only takes so much water toclean a window
depending on circumstances.
first cleans i use a higher flow rate to move the crud quicker
maintenance cleans a lower flow rate...but my speed of work is exactly the same
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It makes me work faster, I'm so tight that if I could save 10p i'd run all day ;D
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Having a higher flow doesn't make a window any cleaner or make you clean them quicker.
James, that is not correct. Higher flow does make you quicker, but it's the operator, that needs to be quicker. We are in the business of getting dissolved solids down the glass as fast as possible. Faster flow means that you can potentially work faster. You can disagree with it, but when you get to a certain speed level, you will understand. There is a limit to it obviously, but you still need a high flow. :)
I've never had problems with my controller! Battery saving for me, as I work off the van battery at all times. I can set shut off pressure and flow quickly. Set it and forget it.
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I think this comes down to personal preference tbh.
I use a flow controller because I don't like to have too much flow, because to me that's simply a waste of water. The one I use (and I'm sure they all probably do this) automatically compensates for the extra power needed when the pole is up high, which is handy. It means that no matter how high the pole, the flow rate will always be the same.
I'm a little bit suprised to hear that some folk don't use them, I thought everyone did. Mine's an old-style analogue one (with a little knob to turn up the flow). I can't imagine using the pump on full power all of the time! The splashback must leave you soaking!
(Hilarious! It changed the word "knob" to "numpty"!)
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I never get wet it hardly splashes back at all, quite a lot of people don't use a controller.
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Sigh and rolley eyes> winproclean
OK let me explain ...
I have a tap between the microbore and the pole hose - when I want to lower the flow I just turn the tap a fraction.
No flow controller. Had one. Don't need it.
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Sigh and rolley eyes> winproclean
OK let me explain ...
I have a tap between the microbore and the pole hose - when I want to lower the flow I just turn the tap a fraction.
No flow controller. Had one. Don't need it.
its still a flow controller though ;D
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Sigh and rolley eyes> winproclean
OK let me explain ...
I have a tap between the microbore and the pole hose - when I want to lower the flow I just turn the tap a fraction.
No flow controller. Had one. Don't need it.
its still a flow controller though ;D
Its not a 'Flow Controller' it simply controls the flow.
Gold will be along to explain!!
;D
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So am I right in thinking all those who don't use a flow controller are also not on a water meter ?
:D ;D
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I don't have a water meter buy I am di only so I use less water than if I used an ro
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Sigh and rolley eyes> winproclean
OK let me explain ...
I have a tap between the microbore and the pole hose - when I want to lower the flow I just turn the tap a fraction.
No flow controller. Had one. Don't need it.
gold how much water do you use a day ? and how many hours you do a day
I know what your saying because I have a tap (I guess) in the same place as you, we just use a controller to restrict the water from full speed (saves water and time controlling the flow) we tend to use the tap mostly now just to turn water off.
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I don't have a water meter buy I am di only so I use less water than if I used an ro
I am not on a water meter either but do have an ro and a need to conserve water because I am street parked and live in a flat so cannot always fill up every evening easily (650 tank)
Do you have di after the tank and pump on your van ? (as I do )
I was told the slower you can run the water through the di the longer the resin will last.
Simon
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Sigh and rolley eyes> winproclean
OK let me explain ...
I have a tap between the microbore and the pole hose - when I want to lower the flow I just turn the tap a fraction.
No flow controller. Had one. Don't need it.
As I said at the very start, someone else who doesn't understand how an electronic controller works. ;D
It's not all about flow Gold! BIG ROLLEY EYES
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I've twin di's after pump
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Sigh and rolley eyes> winproclean
OK let me explain ...
I have a tap between the microbore and the pole hose - when I want to lower the flow I just turn the tap a fraction.
No flow controller. Had one. Don't need it.
As I said at the very start, someone else who doesn't understand how an electronic controller works. ;D
It's not all about flow Gold! BIG ROLLEY EYES
What is it all about winpro? - educate me why I need another one.
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Sigh and rolley eyes> winproclean
OK let me explain ...
I have a tap between the microbore and the pole hose - when I want to lower the flow I just turn the tap a fraction.
No flow controller. Had one. Don't need it.
As I said at the very start, someone else who doesn't understand how an electronic controller works. ;D
It's not all about flow Gold! BIG ROLLEY EYES
What is it all about winpro? - educate me why I need another one.
Malcolm my dear. As you know, god created the whole world in just 6 days. On the 7th day he rested.
Now, I'm good but I'm not that good! :-*
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;D
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Gold, do you have a bypass?
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Gold, do you have a bypass?
My Mum had two separate ones - kept her going an extra 15 years!
And there's one around Avonmouth village which makes it a lot nicer place to live.
Oh ... ;D
No I don't Dave, (tho' I have used one in the past) I use the flojet pumps and I get scrap batteries and use a smart charger overnight - as mentioned I have quarter turn taps on our belts.
I found my old analogue flow controller a hindrance - you'd have to wait a few seconds for pressure to build up if you turned it off for any length of time, it could be temperamental and I no longer use one.
All flow control (as in amount of water from the brush onto the window) is from the tap. So if I'm doing a few houses and one has say some old georgian windows or a leaky door I just set the tap lower and then go back to full pressure which is my default setting.
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Mmm, so if you turn the tap off you are relying on the pressure switch to come in and stop the pump?
I've always used a controller ever since I was born a cleaner. Had two crap Varistreams last year that gave me no end of problems - bought one after another about £160 then had to buy another from Gardiners to sort the problems £80.
So that's £240 I could have saved by not using one in the first place >:(
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I use a tap as well always turn off between windows and not had a problem with the pressure switch as yet. They're very cheap to replace anyway
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I use hot water - so I don't think I could work without a controller because the DE setting needs to be adjusted to stop hoses expanding with the heat. Could be done with a bypass I suppose.
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Mmm, so if you turn the tap off you are relying on the pressure switch to come in and stop the pump?
We've been using two pumps like this for about a year now; no problems. No problems with the battery either, however the flow controllers we had would mess us about with the battery (and we're still using the battery without a problem without the flow controllers).
The pressure switch works brilliantly; just as it should.
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Tosh - you using flojets or shurflos?
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Tosh - you using flojets or shurflos?
Shurflo x 2.