Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mark H on February 13, 2006, 05:55:11 pm
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New to forum, so bear with me. I cleaned my first window on W.H Smith in Folkestone Kent in 1981. Back then It was cool to have an applicator instead of a sponge.
Done plenty of poleing of windows in my time, worked for a firm just cleaning Asdas, did 4 stores a day plus offices once a month. This was 4 years ago when w.p.f was quite new. Never did a window off the ladder, pointer or otherwise
Cleaned all above store windows with w.f.p ...brilliant.
Working for self again and although absolutely rate w.f.p ..think Its brill in the right circumstances I would personally never use on domestic jobs.Too many variables, gardens, gates and the different frames make it impossible to reach a result that keeps customer happy.
W.f.p ,over hyped, over sold, overeached. A double 12 and squeegee will always reign supreme on domestic.
The sgueegee still rules as the single most important invention to the window cleaner with the scim following a close second! Call me an olds romantic.
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You olds romantic you!
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Mark H,
Have you ever used WFP on domestic jobs?
I use a trolley system day in day out on domestic work and it works fine for me and my customers.
A lot of my customers like the fact that I can reach windows that I wouldn't be able to reach trad.
Andy
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I do the new 3 storey houses with wfp and in no way would i have used a ladder so another vote for wfp on domestic,Gaz ;)
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Good man Mark.
Nice to see someone stick up for the humble squeegee.
I'd probably get wfp if I had lots of commercial work, as it's useful for big high jobs.
On domestics, you've got it right, overhyped, overrated, and not much use for a lot of stuff.
A lot of my customers like the fact that I can reach windows that I wouldn't be able to reach trad.
Andy.
Andy, my customers wouldn't like the fact that I could reach less windows.
I can reach loads that I couldn't get to with wfp.
I've counted in a few of my areas and there's more access probs with a pole.
On my round at least - Fact.
Cheers, Rog.
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domestic 8)
another wfp vote ;)
vote wfp ;D
brett.
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Oh and by the way Mark, you've come to the wrong place to mention Squeegees. ::)
Most sheep on here jumped on the wfp bandwagon and won't hear a word said against it, even though they know it's faults!
I know you use it yourself, but you see the value of a good domestic job. ;).
Keep pleasing the customers(they'll value you) and don't let the pushy sods talk you into spoiling all that! :P
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Oh and by the way Mark, you've come to the wrong place to mention Squeegees. ::)
Most sheep on here jumped on the wfp bandwagon and won't hear a word said against it, even though they know it's faults!
I know you use it yourself, but you see the value of a good domestic job. ;).
Keep pleasing the customers(they'll value you) and don't let the pushy sods talk you into spoiling all that! :P
Rog,you`ve got it wrong again it`s not squeegees that keeps getting knocked it`s the damn bl@@dy dangerous LADDERS,Gaz
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Rog,
You are so so stubborn! Have you ever used a WFP???
I have used (and still use) trad and WFP methods, and WFP is safer, quicker and does just as good a job as trad when used properly.
I'm sure most people on here will take your anti-WFP comments with a pinch of salt as you have never tried it.
;)
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I have to confess...........
I.....er....ehhmmm...welllll....I...You see I ..........
Doh.......I used a squeegee today! There! I said it! It was on an automatic sliding door. I feel better for telling you, thanks ;D
Y Fronts still have a share in the underwear market too!
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Oh and by the way Mark, you've come to the wrong place to mention Squeegees. ::)
Most sheep on here jumped on the wfp bandwagon and won't hear a word said against it, even though they know it's faults!
I know you use it yourself, but you see the value of a good domestic job. ;).
Keep pleasing the customers(they'll value you) and don't let the pushy sods talk you into spoiling all that! :P
I use WFP almost entirely now Rog and I was seriously sceptical at first - until I used other peoples' equipment. First time around it slowed me down a lot and there were quality issues on some of the jobs (mainly because I had my water flow too low it turned out). More recently I have been matching and beating my previous times. Funnily enough, the only jobs where I am still a bit slower are the ones where I need to heave the ladder off to access a flat roof.
I have needed to ditch a few jobs though because, as you say, WFP isn't totally suitable for everything. The worst problems were with old frames that allowed the water through. I am currently in the process of passing these jobs on. A couple of times I have realised that a customer may decide that they don't like WFP and then they need to find a reason why.
Also, in cold weather, I often use a broom to brush surplus water from a walkway or patio and then sprinkle down rock salt if there's a danger of a freeze-up. Laying a rubber mat down where the hose crosses a path and displaying a warning sign is also a pain at times. However, on balance, I do prefer WFP. I can say this even though I know that the best is yet to come (unless the water authorities say otherwise). I intend to tailor my work around WFP in future ands avoid certain types of work.
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In my humble experience - don't forget it's based on over 20 years in the business - it's not the "d**n bl@@dy dangerous LADDERS" that's the problem ... it's irresponsible and careless use of ladders.
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Hi all,
I shall be adding wfp to my tool kit within the next two weeks, shall initailly have guys doing bottoms traditional. My motives for getting w.f.p. are simple, i had a fall two years ago (it hurts lol) i employ people and i don't one of them to fall and have it on my conscience.
I shan't discard trad method why acquire a skill then ditch it i'm sure i will need it in the future.
Cheers Mark.
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Oh No not again,
We are 100% wfp and dont even carry ladders any more. we have ditched any properties that need them for access and have got to the stage where we are selective about the types of properties we take on.
No need to talk about safety,speed etc - its all been said many times before.
But please stop picking on Squeaks just because he likes to clean using the traditional method.
You cant force anyone to change if they dont want to. It is up to him if he is willing to risk a fall or injury and we should respect his decision to do so - even if we thinks hes wrong and mad not to even try another method.
Sarah
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I'd probably get wfp if I had lots of commercial work, as it's useful for big high jobs.
Rog, this is a new excuse you're using for not using a WFP. Prior ones have been you've got a bad back, haven't got space for a water tank, it leaves spots, you're customers wouldn't like it and you can't afford one.
A lot of my customers like the fact that I can reach windows that I wouldn't be able to reach trad.
Andy, my customers wouldn't like the fact that I could reach less windows.
I use both ladders and WFP, so there's not many windows I don't do.
I can reach loads that I couldn't get to with wfp.
I've counted in a few of my areas and there's more access probs with a pole.
On my round at least - Fact.
Cheers, Rog.
Roger cleans four houses in one of the streets I do. He misses all the top windows as he can't get access to them. They're second floor dormers. He could if he had a pole.
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Oh No not again,
We are 100% wfp and dont even carry ladders any more. we have ditched any properties that need them for access and have got to the stage where we are selective about the types of properties we take on.
No need to talk about safety,speed etc - its all been said many times before.
But please stop picking on Squeaks just because he likes to clean using the traditional method.
You cant force anyone to change if they dont want to. It is up to him if he is willing to risk a fall or injury and we should respect his decision to do so - even if we thinks hes wrong and mad not to even try another method.
Sarah
I didn't notice anyone trying to force him to change :)
Personally, I'm happy using either method. I may have to revert back to ladder and squeeee if the water companies get shirty too. I'm well prepared for that.
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wfp all the way. ;D ;D ;D
SQUEGEE, do they still make them?
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As a domestic CUSTOMER, (I dont run a W/C business) As long as my windows are clean..........does it matter if its cleaned with a clean pair of Y fronts, a squeegee or a pole that shoots water?? (told you I'm a CUSTOMER ok).
Really, I think your customers are not as concerned as you think over wfp, insurance, unsafe squeegee practices :P, access, etc etc. Theres such a shortage of w/c, whatever their method, that theyre happy they have you, that your pretty regular & you dont completely rip them off!
The C/C section have these battles too ....." my machine is bigger & better than yours". Surely your all here because your in the same business, no matter what method you use! please be nice. Afterall, its the "day of love" tomorrow.
PEACE!
Lizzy
(whos now waiting for the backlash to commence)
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wfp all the way. ;D ;D ;D
SQUEGEE, do they still make them?
How do WFP-only cleaners do interior windows? You could ruin a few carpets...
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Looks like were back on the old debate again of Wfp v Trad. GREAT.
This is my 7th week wfp now, I do tops and bottoms with it. I will still get my ladders off to do a window on a flat roof, or the odd house. On Friday I was doing a converted old mill/house. Window frames were in poor condition so I did it Trad even though I used my ladders up to 25'. The rest of the mill complex I did wfp. No problems either way, I have had a lot of positive feed back about wfp from customers. Which i am releivied about as I know I am a wfp novice.
But their will not be many w/cleaners on this forum who have been w/cleaning as long as me and there will be very few w/cleaners in this country who have cleaned as much glass as I have done in my lifetime. So I think it gives me a very good insight plus a sound footing to put my pennyworth in here.
Squeeqy does have the right to choose how he cleans windows. But I think his arguments against wfp dont carry much weight because he has not used it. So how can he truly know if it is any good or not? He cant, he can only go off what other people tell him. And if those people who slack off wfp, are wfp customers, they will fall in to two categories. First. The person who cleans their windows are not very good, They do a bad job but they more then likely would do a bad job trad anyway.They dont take much pride in their work.
SECOND. The customer themselves do not like wfp, The dripping, The Mess . These never give wfp a chance, It is condemmend and slagged off without giving a fair go.
I cleaned the insides off a house last week, The outsides had been done the day before with wfp, so it was a good chance to see how good they had come up with wfp, In the shade on the back they were perfect. Only 2 windows had a few spots on them, that was only the 2nd time they had been cleaned wfp. And you had to really look for them, That was also with the sun on them, which magnifies any mistakes. I struggled on the insides Trad and I had the benefit that the outsides had allready been done.
Even if the outsides had been done trad it is easy to leave marks if your honest, So on reflection wfp does do a first class job, I have only been doing it 6 weeks and their is no way any w/c could have got results like that on the outside in 6 weeks, In fact Many w/c will never get as a good a finnish as that in their entire lives.
Customers also get extra benefits like the frames cleanned, No holes in their lawn and no risk of ever being sued from their w/c who has taken a fall.
If you want to stay Trad fine, no problem, But dont start slagging off wfp if you have not tried it. I think wfp loses its affectivness if you go really high as you cannot see whats on the window or apply any pressure with the brush the higher you go.
Wfp is as good as the person doing the job.
Nel.
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Roger cleans four houses in one of the streets I do. He misses all the top windows as he can't get access to them. They're second floor dormers. He could if he had a pole.
Funny that Tosh. :D
For a start those windows are attics and they don't want them done, and secondly that's exactly the sort of account you couldn't do with wfp!
You have to go through the backs of 5 houses and your hose wouldn't reach, and each house has windows above a roof you couldn't get to without climbing up.
Fair play you keep trying, but that's the worst possible example....
It's one for the ladder. ;)
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Yaaaaaawwwwwnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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I use both methods and find you can get equally good results with both methods.
I use whatever tool is best for the given situation.
Most of my work is domestic and i would say i WFP 90% of it.
As i find its easier, faster and the customers don't care how there window are cleaned as long as they are done regularly
Paul
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Oh and by the way Mark, you've come to the wrong place to mention Squeegees. ::)
Most sheep on here jumped on the wfp bandwagon and won't hear a word said against it, even though they know it's faults!
I know you use it yourself, but you see the value of a good domestic job. ;).
Keep pleasing the customers(they'll value you) and don't let the pushy sods talk you into spoiling all that! :P
AND MOST OSTRICHES ARE BLIND CUS THEVE GOT SAND IN THEIR EYES ;D GAZA
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Sorry Gaza, don't get that.
Your pole is like an ostrich's neck? ???
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most sheep on here jumped on wfp
ostriches bury their heads in sand
gaza ;D
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now now, be nice. :)
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WFP is the best for every job regardless.
Squeegie? In the dustbin of history.
I read one posting a while ago that claimed he'd done a better job on the inside of a conservatory by turning the flow down and putting plenty of towels down.
There you have it. WFP is better everytime, all the time and of course, always produces better results regardless of what some customers say.
Please note: I am agreeing that WFP is always better. It's always quicker too.
Afterall, I live in the real world of window cleaning.
Maybe this part of the forum should be renamed 'Window Cleaning WFP Issues'?
I, for one, would agree whole heartedly with that change.
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WFP is the best for every job regardless.
Squeegie? In the dustbin of history.
I read one posting a while ago that claimed he'd done a better job on the inside of a conservatory by turning the flow down and putting plenty of towels down.
There you have it. WFP is better everytime, all the time and of course, always produces better results regardless of what some customers say.
Please note: I am agreeing that WFP is always better. It's always quicker too.
Afterall, I live in the real world of window cleaning.
Maybe this part of the forum should be renamed 'Window Cleaning WFP Issues'?
I, for one, would agree whole heartedly with that change.
That's a new stance from you Ross.
You were always saying how it wasn't that great compared to using detergents and it was useless with your salty sea winds... ???
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Well, WFP is always better everytime always and in every case.
I've burnt our squeegies and mops (after they'd dried out) and gave all our microfibres and scrims to a charity so as they can make duvets out of them for the homeless.
I've also put a sign up at my front gate saying that this area (around my house) is a WFP only area to make my point.
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Now I get it.... ;)
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I don't even let my wife wash her hair in the shower anymore. It's too dangerous I've told her. So I wfp it! She looks so much better. But the dandruff??? Man! ;D
Still you have to take the rough with the smooth.
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Next time I get oily hands from working on the car I'm going to go to Ian or Tosh's place and brush my hands with pure water.
I'm sure the grease will just fall off, no need for fairy or Swarfega. ;D
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Squeaky,
Do you normally have to use a ladder to climb up to the sink and then use an applicator & squeegie to wash your hands?
The thing is... You have never tried WFP so you haven't got a leg to stand on with your arguments against it.
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Squeaky,
Do you normally have to use a ladder to climb up to the sink and then use an applicator & squeegie to wash your hands?
The thing is... You have never tried WFP so you haven't got a leg to stand on with your arguments against it.
You've never jumped in front of a train.
Doesn't mean you can't disagree with it.... :-\
Don't need to try it, don't want to try it.
I've seen enough results from various other established top w/c'ers.
Why should I be able to do it any better if they can't do it to my standards? ???
I they want to sacrifice quality that's up to them.
All I was saying is that to remove grime properly you need detergents.
I'm sure you wouldn't trust water alone to wash cutlery in a restaurant you had to eat at.
You'll eat off Fairy though.... 8)
Rog.(who's answered enough questions now)
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Everyone's entitled to their opinions, and remember they're all valid; including Squeaky's (Roger).
Even if those views are misguided, biased or just plain incorrect.
All I know is, I've a lot of customers who're more than happy with my work. I'm also earning more and working less. Safer too.
But statistically speaking:
If a ladder user cleans, say 15 houses per day, and has five ladder cleans per house. (Conservative numbers I know), that's 75 ladder climbs per day.
Based on a conservative 20 working days per month, that's 1500 per month.
Over 12 months that works out as 18,000 ladder climbs per year.
Over ten years that equals 180,000 climbs.
That's one-hundred-and-eighty-thousand, at least, climbs in a ten year period and it's probably a conservative estimate.
That's a lot of chances to have a fall.
If you've a young family, how would they cope if you ended up paralysed or brain-damaged?
PS. If any of the calculations are wrong, Wor Little Un did them on the calculator and told me the answer. Her maths isn't the best.
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squeeky
Pure water alone is a good cleaner.
It is used in the microprocessor industry as it is the only thing that will get the chips clean enough,just one microscopic spec will ruin it.
It is also used in the printing industry.
The pure water cleans by means of the purified strives to return to an impure state.
Pure water is a very aggresive cleaner.
And yes i would eat off a plate washed by pure water rather than fairy.
Fairy contains silicones and hydrocarbons and other surfacents.
Drink enough fairy and you will die .>>>>> FAct.
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I think Roger (Sqeaky) is in his 'comfort zone', using ladders.
I too have a few issues around being in my own comfort zone. (I'm frightened of canvassing (although I tell myself I'm too lazy to do it) and I've never phoned a company back, when I've quoted and not heard back from them).
But I'm working on 'comming out of my comfort zone'.
I think Roger's happy doing what he's doing, earning enough, and quite happy to do it.
There's nothing wrong with this at all.
Roger has been window cleaning for at least seven years now, and to change over to WFP would cause him some trauma; I think.
But, if he's prepared to work harder for less than your average WFP user; don't knock him.
I've enough competition for the best accounts with other WFP users in this area!
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Tosh,
when considering weather to change to Wfp instead of Traditional I tried to calculate how many times I was likely to go up and down a ladder before I retired.
It was frightening to think how many times I would be up a ladder when I did not need to be. The problem being the older you get the bigger the impact it can have on your body as you do not recover the same as you get older.
I have fallen off ladders several times in 26 yrs. Though I never have been seriously hurt. Before wfp I was doing tops only, my son was doing downstairs trad, I did not let him do the tops because I would never forgive myself if he ever fell and suffered a long term disability as the result of a fall at work.
Accidents can and do happen with horriffc consequences. 20yrs ago a freind of mine suffered a fall while w/cleaning and it was touch and go weather he was going to have his arm amputated. He never w cleaned again after that but thankfully he pulled through with his arm in tact.
I was going up my ladder 200 times a day on average, 5 days a week = 1,000 times a week. 50 weeks a year = 50,000 climbs a year x 18 years to retirement = 900,000. Thats :-
NINE HUNDRED THOUSAND ladder climbs.
I'm Wfp, risk of falling greatly reduced, My son is considering staying with me and developing the Buisness togethor.
You can debate and argue about weather the finnish is better with wfp or Trad. Which is a matter thats open to opinion. You cannot argue that you are a whole lot safer on the ground then being up a ladder. And ultimately thats the over riding reason why I went wfp and why many other w/cleaners will go wfp.
Nel.
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As a domestic CUSTOMER, (I dont run a W/C business) As long as my windows are clean..........does it matter if its cleaned with a clean pair of Y fronts, a squeegee or a pole that shoots water??
I agree I've just down graded all my advertising The punters arn't intrested in how the windows are cleaned as long as they are clean..
Like most trades use the right tool for the job, but whatever tool you use, use it safley...
Its the Window Cleaner that cleans the window not the equipment, (the right equipment helps to make the job easier )