Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Blacky on January 21, 2013, 09:08:28 pm

Title: Your Margins!!
Post by: Blacky on January 21, 2013, 09:08:28 pm
As a successful carpet cleaning sole trader you should be running a margin of 40%. In other words, you take 40 pence in every £1 you earn. This would be a business that is investing in its future. 

Now I'm not talking about the grim carpet cleaners that work from old cars that achieve 95-100% margins. What they earn, they take. Usually 15k per annum (£10950 after tax and NI) for fAgs and booze.

With a 40% profit margin your incomes as a 1 man band should read as follows,,,

For a modest, low(ish) income (same as a bin man),,,
Gross annual takings (what you bring in) £64000 - Nett after running costs £ 25600 - Gross Taxable wage including NI £ 25600 - Nett wage after tax and NI (your money) £ 18688  

If your aiming for a good middleclass wage (same as accountant),,,
Gross annual takings (what you bring in)  £108000 - Nett after running costs £ 43200 - Gross taxable wage including NI  £43200 - Nett wage after tax and NI (your money) £31536

The more you expand into employing workers the more you margin takes a hit. So as a 3 van carpet cleaning set up with 6 workers, your margin would equate to around 8%. The staff you employ are all costs to your business. That hits margin like a sledge hammer. The business would typically take 8pence in every £1 earned.

Ok, so your company pulls in £770000 - Nett after running costs, wages including your own etc - £61000 - Taxable takings your company has generated £61000.

Hope this clarifies where you are and where you should be aiming for.

Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Paul Moss on January 21, 2013, 09:13:22 pm
And your point is?
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Fran84 on January 21, 2013, 09:15:15 pm
Gotta agree with Paul. I don't get your point!!
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: peter maybury on January 21, 2013, 09:28:59 pm
Whilst you are happy to give us a lesson in business, the only way that you can make a margin or profit of 100% is if you have done nothing and it has not cost you anything to achieve that profit.
If you can tell me a way of achieving that in carpet cleaning I am all ears.  
If you mark something up by 100% it will give you a net profit or margin of 50%.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Hilton on January 21, 2013, 09:58:24 pm
WHAT!!!!!

My binmen are on £64k , bloody public sector are coining it, I'm off to get a job.

Apart from that a lot of assumptions in there, a carpet cleaning business turning over £770,000 net would be doing what exactly gross,1.5 million ?

I don't know any CC businesses that do anything close to that and I know some
big ones..

Many CC I suspect would be quite happy with what the a binmen earn.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Deep Cleaning Solutions on January 21, 2013, 10:02:07 pm
" Usually 15k per annum (£10950 after tax and NI) for f*gs and booze. "

If they are earning 15k gross, they should not be paying any tax after expenditure/fuel is taken out with todays very generous personel tax allowance's.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Carpet Dawg on January 21, 2013, 10:04:38 pm
I think he ment you'd have to turnover 64k to earn what binmen earn (according to blacky) i.e. £ 18688.

Sorry black but alot of blox in that post. A turnover of £108,000 for a take home of £31,500???  ???
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Blacky on January 21, 2013, 10:06:38 pm
I think he ment you'd have to turnover 64k to earn what binmen earn (according to blacky) i.e. £ 18688.

Sorry black but alot of blox in that post. A turnover of £108,000 for a take home of £31,500???  ???

Yes that is correct.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Carpet Dawg on January 21, 2013, 10:10:05 pm
thats alot of carpet washing for a modest wage  :-[
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Blacky on January 21, 2013, 10:11:19 pm
WHAT!!!!!

My binmen are on £64k , bloody public sector are coining it, I'm off to get a job.

Apart from that a lot of assumptions in there, a carpet cleaning business turning over £770,000 net would be doing what exactly gross,1.5 million ?

I don't know any CC businesses that do anything close to that and I know some
big ones..

Many CC I suspect would be quite happy with what the a binmen earn.

You've got it wrong. 770,000 was the gross.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Simon Gerrard on January 21, 2013, 10:37:57 pm
As a successful carpet cleaning sole trader you should be running a margin of 40%. In other words, you take 40 pence in every £1 you earn. This would be a business that is investing in its future. 

Now I'm not talking about the grim carpet cleaners that work from old cars that achieve 95-100% margins. What they earn, they take. Usually 15k per annum (£10950 after tax and NI) for f*gs and booze.

With a 40% profit margin your incomes as a 1 man band should read as follows,,,

For a modest, low(ish) income (same as a bin man),,,
Gross annual takings (what you bring in) £64000 - Nett after running costs £ 25600 - Gross Taxable wage including NI £ 25600 - Nett wage after tax and NI (your money) £ 18688  

If your aiming for a good middleclass wage (same as accountant),,,
Gross annual takings (what you bring in)  £108000 - Nett after running costs £ 43200 - Gross taxable wage including NI  £43200 - Nett wage after tax and NI (your money) £31536

The more you expand into employing workers the more you margin takes a hit. So as a 3 van carpet cleaning set up with 6 workers, your margin would equate to around 8%. The staff you employ are all costs to your business. That hits margin like a sledge hammer. The business would typically take 8pence in every £1 earned.

Ok, so your company pulls in £770000 - Nett after running costs, wages including your own etc - £61000 - Taxable takings your company has generated £61000.

Hope this clarifies where you are and where you should be aiming for.


Oh dear, someone doesn't t know what he's talking about :'(
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Hilton on January 21, 2013, 10:51:08 pm
WHAT!!!!!

My binmen are on £64k , bloody public sector are coining it, I'm off to get a job.

Apart from that a lot of assumptions in there, a carpet cleaning business turning over £770,000 net would be doing what exactly gross,1.5 million ?

I don't know any CC businesses that do anything close to that and I know some
big ones..

Many CC I suspect would be quite happy with what the a binmen earn.

You've got it wrong. 770,000 was the gross.

Ok I must have read it wrong, I will rephrase it,
I don't know any carpet cleaners who do sales of £770,000

Are you doing this, if so congratulations you should be writing courses and books on how you did it.I mean that's 6 jobs a day at around 500 pounds a ticket.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: John Kelly on January 21, 2013, 11:03:02 pm
Be interesting to see what peoples gross margins actually are if anyones brave enough to tell us.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Hilton on January 21, 2013, 11:09:44 pm
Ok, let's start with you.. ;D
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on January 21, 2013, 11:16:33 pm
John follows my lead, 40% of nothing is nothing after all its grim t'up north.

Shaun
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: M.Acorn on January 21, 2013, 11:22:59 pm
Utterly buttery
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: derek west on January 21, 2013, 11:33:18 pm
Utterly buttery
;D

Flora man me self, apparently it lowers cholesterol .
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Blacky on January 21, 2013, 11:39:01 pm
WHAT!!!!!

My binmen are on £64k , bloody public sector are coining it, I'm off to get a job.

Apart from that a lot of assumptions in there, a carpet cleaning business turning over £770,000 net would be doing what exactly gross,1.5 million ?

I don't know any CC businesses that do anything close to that and I know some
big ones..

Many CC I suspect would be quite happy with what the a binmen earn.

You've got it wrong. 770,000 was the gross.

Ok I must have read it wrong, I will rephrase it,
I don't know any carpet cleaners who do sales of £770,000

Are you doing this, if so congratulations you should be writing courses and books on how you did it.I mean that's 6 jobs a day at around 500 pounds a ticket.


You need to read the last section again. I mention 3 vans and 6 workers to pull £770,000. No sole trader could ever gross this.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Blacky on January 21, 2013, 11:50:27 pm
I dont know why people are so shocked by this. 40% is a superb margin. Large companys take 5% or less.

I bet John Kellys margin is around 18-20%

If you want a 100% margin on what you earn, get a job. If not, get your ass into gear and work hard.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: seamus campbell on January 22, 2013, 12:06:50 am
Blacky

I would be interested to know what you have allowed for expenses on your turnover £64000. that leaves you with only £25600. 
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Ian Rochester on January 22, 2013, 05:25:41 am
We don't have any margins..........we clean right to the edges.  BOOM BOOM!!! Thank you, I'm off  ;D
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: The Great One on January 22, 2013, 07:44:23 am
And what about VAT if you're earning £77000??
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: feldon on January 22, 2013, 07:57:53 am
Sorry Blacky

Utterly meaningless figures backed up by an overactive imagination :o
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Barry Livingstone on January 22, 2013, 07:59:05 am
my wee take on it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuqry9SMjQM
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: John Kelly on January 22, 2013, 08:47:01 am
If I recall my gross margin when I was carpet cleaning was around 52%.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: jasonl on January 22, 2013, 08:51:16 am
Every year it has broadly been the same for me ,

 around a third of turnover marketing,equipment, vehicles.

around  a third wages chems

around a third profit
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Hilton on January 22, 2013, 08:59:43 am
WHAT!!!!!

My binmen are on £64k , bloody public sector are coining it, I'm off to get a job.

Apart from that a lot of assumptions in there, a carpet cleaning business turning over £770,000 net would be doing what exactly gross,1.5 million ?

I don't know any CC businesses that do anything close to that and I know some
big ones..

Many CC I suspect would be quite happy with what the a binmen earn.

You've got it wrong. 770,000 was the gross.

Ok I must have read it wrong, I will rephrase it,
I don't know any carpet cleaners who do sales of £770,000

Are you doing this, if so congratulations you should be writing courses and books on how you did it.I mean that's 6 jobs a day at around 500 pounds a ticket.


You need to read the last section again. I mention 3 vans and 6 workers to pull £770,000. No sole trader could ever gross this.

Yep the questions the same based on your example, which you have not answered.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: david@zap-clean on January 22, 2013, 09:50:57 am
Be interesting to see what peoples gross margins actually are if anyones brave enough to tell us.

After 6 months trading, I'm still only pulling £100 per week out of the business, for fAgs and booze.  So it's a good job I don't smoke, and my girlfriend is loaded, but don't tell the wife.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Dominic Carnell on January 22, 2013, 12:23:13 pm
Quote
£108000 - Nett after running costs £ 43200

In this example, what has circa £3900 a month been spent on? Because £900 a week sounds like high overheads for a man in a van carpet cleaning business?

Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: JandS on January 22, 2013, 01:26:03 pm
Your net figures aren't in sync with Tax and NI which is 28%.
You haven't knocked the personal allowance off any of the
figures.
This would have a big impact on the £25600 figure.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Paul Moss on January 22, 2013, 03:34:27 pm
Can i just say that  83.56% of all statistics are made up  ;D
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Blacky on January 22, 2013, 03:38:04 pm
Quote
£108000 - Nett after running costs £ 43200

In this example, what has circa £3900 a month been spent on? Because £900 a week sounds like high overheads for a man in a van carpet cleaning business?



Yes it is a lot, but if you wanted that annual turnover that would be the cost to you of achieving it.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Allan Simmons on January 22, 2013, 03:40:09 pm
 
Can i just say that  83.56% of all statistics are made up  ;D

 ;D
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: *Hector* on January 22, 2013, 03:41:34 pm
I disagree..
that expense is very high, especially for an established business..

I know of at least 1 other CC on here besides me, who spends very very little on advertising for a start, so that cuts that figure by a heck of a lot.......

Your post is at best a generalisation, and at worst pure fabrication.....
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Blacky on January 22, 2013, 03:48:51 pm
Every year it has broadly been the same for me ,

 around a third of turnover marketing,equipment, vehicles.

around  a third wages chems
around a third profit


Perfect. A real life example that we can use.  
Jason has a 33.3% margin. He takes 33pence taxable wage for every £1 he generates. If he turns over £80000 in the year his taxable wage will be £26400. After tax and NI at 27% his take home pay is £19272.

This is not fiction. The man has told us his margin is 1 third of his turnover.
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Hilton on January 22, 2013, 04:39:34 pm
So can we take it then that the example you gave at the beginning was your own, with employees and 3 vans out generating sales at £770.000,because you have not been clear on that.

 
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: dan paton on January 22, 2013, 04:46:17 pm
blacky why do you feel the need to type posts like this . you sound like an effing preacher but all you do is bore people . go get a life
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: Doug Holloway on January 22, 2013, 05:57:04 pm
Hi Guys

An intersting topic.

Jason has wages and profit, for me they are combined so that gives me 66%, assuming a third for  marketing, when in reality about 20 %, so 80% profit.

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: Your Margins!!
Post by: peter maybury on January 22, 2013, 10:29:16 pm
It is a stupid post really because true profit is net profit and there are many other things to take into account other than wages. Blacky I do not think understands it himself. I do not know any business that will return a net profit anywhere near 80%.
Even if you are working for yourself you have to put a price on you time. Even if you chose a paltrey amount of £20 per hour and are charging £100 per hour for your time that gives you a margin of 80%. That is fine if you can get that rate per hour are willing to work for that rate an hour, do not have to travel anywhere, have no advertising costs or equipment, chemicals, run a vehicle, tax etc, etc.........
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)