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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Jack Harris on January 02, 2013, 06:30:13 pm

Title: Under Cutting
Post by: Jack Harris on January 02, 2013, 06:30:13 pm
1st day back at work to find out a group of 3 traditional cleaners have been going round my work and under cutting me, a house worth £10 there doing for £4, must be desperate for the work
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Window Washers on January 02, 2013, 06:37:54 pm
1st day back at work to find out a group of 3 traditional cleaners have been going round my work and under cutting me, a house worth £10 there doing for £4, must be desperate for the work
the good thing is they will be full up soon with crap work running around like headless chickens, I would laugh at them and carry on doing what your doing ;D
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: PurefectWindowCleaning on January 02, 2013, 06:45:46 pm
Some chumps flyered the houses on my road trying to undercut me... safe to say they wont be doing that again.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Halfadaylee on January 02, 2013, 06:49:11 pm
Some chumps flyered the houses on my road trying to undercut me... safe to say they wont be doing that again.

Why's that then?
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: PurefectWindowCleaning on January 02, 2013, 06:55:09 pm
Some chumps flyered the houses on my road trying to undercut me... safe to say they wont be doing that again.

Why's that then?


Scared them a little bit, thats all.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: gewindows on January 02, 2013, 06:58:24 pm
lol did you growl at them through your wind-screen, start clawing at the glass and dribbling at them? Did they run away  ;D
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: steven ainger on January 02, 2013, 07:02:17 pm


[/quote]

Scared them a little bit, thats all.
[/quote]


Are you that ugly ?? ;D
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: PAUL ERITH on January 02, 2013, 07:12:11 pm
What do you class as under cutting  ???

Going in with a lower price when you already know what their current cleaner is charging

Would you under cut a cleaner if you knew that one cleaner was charging £100 for a job and you could still turn a good profit at £85 ???

I don't see what the problem is its business isn't it alot of the bigger cleaning companys don't care about whos toes they tread on so why should we.

Paul
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Halfadaylee on January 02, 2013, 07:15:02 pm
[quote  author=Halfadaylee link=topic=163469.msg1365011#msg1365011 date=1357152551]
Some chumps flyered the houses on my road trying to undercut me... safe to say they wont be doing that again.



I was scared to ask :-)
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: roundbuilder on January 02, 2013, 07:24:03 pm
If i was a new starter then my initial way of thinking would be to undercut the competition to gain as much work as possible. In fact when i first started i used to undercut everybody i could as had a family to feed and needed the work as was in a hole with debt and worry as couldnt get work.. I still have a lot of the work from day 1 but over the years crept the prices up and are now all in synch.

However now i wouldnt even consider undercutting as 1 i charge too high as it is and wouldnt have mixed prices accross the rounds and 2, i dont like customers who change just to save a quid or 2 a month if they cancal to an under cutter then good ridence.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: paul saunders on January 02, 2013, 07:33:30 pm
i dont like customers who change just to save a quid or 2 a month

You liked them when they switched to you to save a couple of quid a month.  :o :o
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: max a on January 02, 2013, 07:36:50 pm
well said . paul
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: roundbuilder on January 02, 2013, 07:41:34 pm
i dont like customers who change just to save a quid or 2 a month

You liked them when they switched to you to save a couple of quid a month.  :o :o

Yes hence being a newbie and not knowing the crack like i said now i wouldnt consider undercutting. Im not in a position where i need to undercut.
Not being funny though but business is all about competition and price wars so i dont know why the dig at me just for being honest??.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: paul saunders on January 02, 2013, 07:52:53 pm
It wasn't a dig, it was just an observation.  ;D
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: roundbuilder on January 02, 2013, 07:56:52 pm
Im honest thats all. Im sure if you and many on here are honest we all have at some point undercut.

You goto tesco every week and have done for the past 25 years being a loyal customer but find out you can save 25% for exactly the same food by switching to asda, without a shadow of a doubt you would goto asda.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Richard iSparkle on January 02, 2013, 08:01:35 pm
1st day back at work to find out a group of 3 traditional cleaners have been going round my work and under cutting me, a house worth £10 there doing for £4, must be desperate for the work
the good thing is they will be full up soon with crap work running around like headless chickens, I would laugh at them and carry on doing what your doing ;D

this is exactly what i think.

i had some one leaflet one of my round with prices less than half what i charge.  was 2 months ago and i've not lost anyone that i know of...  unless you yourself are cheap, you wont loose your customers to a cheap cleaner
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Banbury Window Cleaning on January 02, 2013, 08:39:00 pm
business is business!! i have undercut before to get decent work and I would do it again!
We are in this game to make money and look after our families not worry about other people
When I started out I undercutt on some work to get it compact and just a few months ago a local newbie shouted abuse at me for cleaning in the street he lived (so apparantly it was his patch) so me and Andi canvassed the whole area and made sure we got work!!
These days i would only consider it if it was decent commercial work, large donestic properties £100+
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Halfadaylee on January 02, 2013, 08:43:03 pm
business is business!! i have undercut before to get decent work and I would do it again!
We are in this game to make money and look after our families not worry about other people
When I started out I undercutt on some work to get it compact and just a few months ago a local newbie shouted abuse at me for cleaning in the street he lived (so apparantly it was his patch) so me and Andi canvassed the whole area and made sure we got work!!
These days i would only consider it if it was decent commercial work, large donestic properties £100+

Where is the decent work, if its always being undercut the only winner will be the customer.
Art
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Banbury Window Cleaning on January 02, 2013, 08:53:39 pm
then let them be the winner! there is decent work out there you gotta just find it and if it means under cutting then so be it!
I wont break me back for nothing but if I can do a property cheaper then I will, IF it suits me and my round.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: G Griffin on January 02, 2013, 09:05:10 pm
I don't think it's that big of a problem.
If you can't beat them on price, beat them on quality. Some just want cheap, let them have them.
If you can't beat them on quality, either, you're going to have to do something else. 
Moaning about it is just like claiming to have a 'patch'. It's just competition.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: sunshine windows on January 02, 2013, 10:21:34 pm
Mick, I wouldn't change supplier of goods if it was of inferior quality, regardless as to how cheap it was.

Top quality service at a price you think is fair, that's all you need worry about.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Jack Harris on January 03, 2013, 01:59:22 am
I have enough work anyway its just annoying that people are that desperate, good luck to them see how long they continue to work for prices that low.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: home6442 on January 03, 2013, 11:51:09 am
Mick, I wouldn't change supplier of goods if it was of inferior quality, regardless as to how cheap it was.

Top quality service at a price you think is fair, that's all you need worry about.


You would if it was all you could afford.
Not everyone takes the cheaper option because of greed they do it to balance the budget.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Halfadaylee on January 03, 2013, 02:10:09 pm
Mick, I wouldn't change supplier of goods if it was of inferior quality, regardless as to how cheap it was.

Top quality service at a price you think is fair, that's all you need worry about.


You would if it was all you could afford.
Not everyone takes the cheaper option because of greed they do it to balance the budget.

I understand what being said here, but it's not a good comparison.
Food is requirement to live, windows being cleaned is a choice.

IMO people will keep a cleaner once they trust him regardless of whether they can save money by changing, it's the fear of change and the fact people buy people.
There is no fear in where I shop, although I am intimidated by the posh tarts in Waitrose and really dont like the smell of the unwashed in Aldi, although Aldi is the cheapest place to shop.
I use Sainsburys, Tescos and Asda just for a change although I keep the same bloke to mow my lawn.

Art
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Joseph Michael on January 07, 2013, 03:41:41 pm
This is a great topic and keeps coming up, and in time peoples responses have changed. The one thing most window cleaners always used to say was to never undercut to get the work, but because of the economic situation and people having no work, there is a lot more competition out there from new window cleaners and customers shopping around. It would be great if there was an across the board price that everybody could stick to but there isn't. Everybody has to start somewhere and if at first you have to work for a lower price to get the work then so be it, but most serious window cleaners seem to build up to a decent level of work and income and then lose the low paid jobs, and so the cycle continues.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: dazmond on January 07, 2013, 04:39:49 pm
most decent customers will simply not switch to a guy who they dont know to save a few quid!!

it simply doesnt happen.not on my round anyway.ive been window cleaning 18 years and never lost a customer to an undercutter.

IF your regular,reliable,do a good job for a fair price and you ve been going for a few years you wont lose even one customer. ;) ;D ;D


regards


dazmond
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: gavinb on January 07, 2013, 04:48:11 pm
I lost one last week for 50p !!!
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: roundbuilder on January 07, 2013, 04:52:34 pm
most decent customers will simply not switch to a guy who they dont know to save a few quid!!

it simply doesnt happen.not on my round anyway.ive been window cleaning 18 years and never lost a customer to an undercutter.

IF your regular,reliable,do a good job for a fair price and you ve been going for a few years you wont lose even one customer. ;) ;D ;D


regards


dazmond

A lot of the time im guessing they dont tell you you have been undercut. Surely in 18 years you have had some unless you undercharge on everything. If you have never been underpriced in 18 years then you are not charging enough. Price higher work harder your signature says. I believe in price higher and work smarter.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Window Washers on January 07, 2013, 05:00:20 pm
most decent customers will simply not switch to a guy who they dont know to save a few quid!!

it simply doesnt happen.not on my round anyway.ive been window cleaning 18 years and never lost a customer to an undercutter.

IF your regular,reliable,do a good job for a fair price and you ve been going for a few years you wont lose even one customer. ;) ;D ;D


regards


dazmond

A lot of the time im guessing they dont tell you you have been undercut. Surely in 18 years you have had some unless you undercharge on everything. If you have never been underpriced in 18 years then you are not charging enough. Price higher work harder your signature says. I believe in price higher and work smarter.
totally agree,

Dazmond you must be the only window cleaner in the world thats not lost a customer to someone undercutting.

Work smarter not harder all the way  ;D
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: dazmond on January 07, 2013, 05:58:09 pm
ian its true!ive never knowingly been undercut to my knowledge in 18 years!

i have lots of good priced work as well as cheaper very very compact 3 bed semi work.

of course ive lost customers due to moving,dying,skint and lost job etc but NEVER to anyone charging less. ??? ??? ;D ;D


its a case of better the devil you know.most people have been messed around by flakey window cleaners so when they find a good solid one then they dont dump them for someone they dont know/trust.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: home6442 on January 07, 2013, 07:05:17 pm
Ive never lost a custy to undercutting.
You guys are right I need to put my prices up.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: JandS on January 07, 2013, 07:38:49 pm
Surely price higher work the same... ;D
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: lee andrew on January 07, 2013, 08:13:02 pm
I try to gain custom with out treading on toes (very hard to do) but when i price up i do so to the price im happy with, so far i have got work that is vacant but this year im going to give it my all and go full time i.e. im looking for 300+ customers so im bound to price other peoples work, but it will be a price im happy with not to steal a job. In all fairness everyone has probably undercut without knowing
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Johnny B on January 07, 2013, 09:17:12 pm
I try to gain custom with out treading on toes (very hard to do) but when i price up i do so to the price im happy with, so far i have got work that is vacant but this year im going to give it my all and go full time i.e. im looking for 300+ customers so im bound to price other peoples work, but it will be a price im happy with not to steal a job. In all fairness everyone has probably undercut without knowing

Good post Lee.

 Whenever I have canvassed, if told they have a window cleaner already, I never ask what they charge, so never try to take another guy's work. I just look for customers who want my services. Good thing is, that there are a few windys in my town, and not only is there enough work to go round,but customers tend to be very loyal as well.

John     
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: roundbuilder on January 07, 2013, 09:20:10 pm
I try to gain custom with out treading on toes (very hard to do) but when i price up i do so to the price im happy with, so far i have got work that is vacant but this year im going to give it my all and go full time i.e. im looking for 300+ customers so im bound to price other peoples work, but it will be a price im happy with not to steal a job. In all fairness everyone has probably undercut without knowing

Good post Lee.

 Whenever I have canvassed, if told they have a window cleaner already, I never ask what they charge, so never try to take another guy's work. I just look for customers who want my services. Good thing is, that there are a few windys in my town, and not only is there enough work to go round,but customers tend to be very loyal as well.

John     

Ooooo what area is that john??  :-X
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Johnny B on January 07, 2013, 09:37:30 pm
I try to gain custom with out treading on toes (very hard to do) but when i price up i do so to the price im happy with, so far i have got work that is vacant but this year im going to give it my all and go full time i.e. im looking for 300+ customers so im bound to price other peoples work, but it will be a price im happy with not to steal a job. In all fairness everyone has probably undercut without knowing

Good post Lee.

 Whenever I have canvassed, if told they have a window cleaner already, I never ask what they charge, so never try to take another guy's work. I just look for customers who want my services. Good thing is, that there are a few windys in my town, and not only is there enough work to go round,but customers tend to be very loyal as well.

John     

Ooooo what area is that john??  :-X

Mick, I am in Tralee in the South West of Ireland.

John
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: roundbuilder on January 07, 2013, 09:59:57 pm
Damn miles away. Id have snuck in there if a shortage of window cleaners.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: C o z y on January 08, 2013, 07:01:18 am
This is a great topic and keeps coming up, and in time peoples responses have changed. The one thing most window cleaners always used to say was to never undercut to get the work, but because of the economic situation and people having no work, there is a lot more competition out there from new window cleaners and customers shopping around. It would be great if there was an across the board price that everybody could stick to but there isn't. Everybody has to start somewhere and if at first you have to work for a lower price to get the work then so be it, but most serious window cleaners seem to build up to a decent level of work and income and then lose the low paid jobs, and so the cycle continues.

Good post
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Joseph Michael on January 08, 2013, 10:49:10 am
This is a great topic and keeps coming up, and in time peoples responses have changed. The one thing most window cleaners always used to say was to never undercut to get the work, but because of the economic situation and people having no work, there is a lot more competition out there from new window cleaners and customers shopping around. It would be great if there was an across the board price that everybody could stick to but there isn't. Everybody has to start somewhere and if at first you have to work for a lower price to get the work then so be it, but most serious window cleaners seem to build up to a decent level of work and income and then lose the low paid jobs, and so the cycle continues.

Good post


Thank you Mr Bacon

This subject really does interest me as I do all my own canvassing and there are a lot of people out there who say things like - 'No, its ok, I already have a window cleaner. . . . . eeerrr  well, what do you charge.?'


No matter what any window cleaner says, there are always one or two that may change because of price, but also they are right in saying that these customers are best not having, well, thats waht I believe. I also want to get to the stage where I am pricing high, but fair. So, that both me and the customer are happy with the price AND the work.
So, what do you answer to the above question?


Well, how much are you paying at the moment?

Are you happy with your current window cleaner (price/standard of work, reliability).?

I charge 50p a window sir/madam.

I charge £5 a window sir/madam.

Its ok, I don't want to upset your current window cleaner (I have seen the brute hahahaha).

Its ok, I don't want to take someone on who would be looking to change again behind my back.

If I could do it cheaper do I get the work?


Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: roundbuilder on January 08, 2013, 11:11:06 am
This is a great topic and keeps coming up, and in time peoples responses have changed. The one thing most window cleaners always used to say was to never undercut to get the work, but because of the economic situation and people having no work, there is a lot more competition out there from new window cleaners and customers shopping around. It would be great if there was an across the board price that everybody could stick to but there isn't. Everybody has to start somewhere and if at first you have to work for a lower price to get the work then so be it, but most serious window cleaners seem to build up to a decent level of work and income and then lose the low paid jobs, and so the cycle continues.

Good post


Thank you Mr Bacon

This subject really does interest me as I do all my own canvassing and there are a lot of people out there who say things like - 'No, its ok, I already have a window cleaner. . . . . eeerrr  well, what do you charge.?'


No matter what any window cleaner says, there are always one or two that may change because of price, but also they are right in saying that these customers are best not having, well, thats waht I believe. I also want to get to the stage where I am pricing high, but fair. So, that both me and the customer are happy with the price AND the work.
So, what do you answer to the above question?


Well, how much are you paying at the moment?

Are you happy with your current window cleaner (price/standard of work, reliability).?

I charge 50p a window sir/madam.

I charge £5 a window sir/madam.

Its ok, I don't want to upset your current window cleaner (I have seen the brute hahahaha).

Its ok, I don't want to take someone on who would be looking to change again behind my back.

If I could do it cheaper do I get the work?




Spot on. Im the same. If they are not happy with there current wc then who am i to not take them on as my own customer.
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Johnny B on January 08, 2013, 02:41:10 pm
This is a great topic and keeps coming up, and in time peoples responses have changed. The one thing most window cleaners always used to say was to never undercut to get the work, but because of the economic situation and people having no work, there is a lot more competition out there from new window cleaners and customers shopping around. It would be great if there was an across the board price that everybody could stick to but there isn't. Everybody has to start somewhere and if at first you have to work for a lower price to get the work then so be it, but most serious window cleaners seem to build up to a decent level of work and income and then lose the low paid jobs, and so the cycle continues.

Good post


Thank you Mr Bacon

This subject really does interest me as I do all my own canvassing and there are a lot of people out there who say things like - 'No, its ok, I already have a window cleaner. . . . . eeerrr  well, what do you charge.?'


No matter what any window cleaner says, there are always one or two that may change because of price, but also they are right in saying that these customers are best not having, well, thats waht I believe. I also want to get to the stage where I am pricing high, but fair. So, that both me and the customer are happy with the price AND the work.
So, what do you answer to the above question?


Well, how much are you paying at the moment?

Are you happy with your current window cleaner (price/standard of work, reliability).?

I charge 50p a window sir/madam.

I charge £5 a window sir/madam.

Its ok, I don't want to upset your current window cleaner (I have seen the brute hahahaha).

Its ok, I don't want to take someone on who would be looking to change again behind my back.

If I could do it cheaper do I get the work?




Spot on. Im the same. If they are not happy with there current wc then who am i to not take them on as my own customer.


+1.

John
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Klean07 on January 08, 2013, 04:36:04 pm
If any of my customers stray to undercutters I tell them not to bother phoning me when they fail to turn up! End of!
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Ian101 on January 08, 2013, 05:07:05 pm

[/quote]


i had some one leaflet one of my round with prices less than half what i charge.  was 2 months ago and i've not lost anyone that i know of...  unless you yourself are cheap, you wont loose your customers to a cheap cleaner
[/quote]

do you know what company it was ? .... aquaclean by any chance ?
Title: Re: Under Cutting
Post by: Deangsi on January 08, 2013, 06:33:22 pm
canvass wherever you want and price whatever you are happy with and dont let anyone tell you different in my opinion. i never canvass other window cleaners work who i know but as for any others its fair game as is my work fair game to anyone else.