Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: joshem on December 26, 2012, 10:32:14 pm
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Right, I am a part-time traditional cleaner and would like a WFP setup. I cannot afford to buy and kit out a van etc. so please don't suggest I do so as it's just not realistic at the moment and I don't even know whether I'll be window cleaning in the coming years as I'm still young.
OK, so I am interested in a trolley system. I know to you people that have lovely van mounted systems this is probably a horrendous choice but it's all I can afford/want and I honestly don't think it will bother me to wheel it round.
Anyway, all my customers have 1 storey houses (I don't go any higher because of the increased risk if I were to fall) but with a pole I will obviously be wanting to take on larger buildings, perhaps up to 3 or 4 storeys. I've been looking seriously at this setup: Pure Freedom 25 Litre Trolley System Package (http://www.purefreedom.co.uk/pure-freedom-25-litre-trolley-system-package-p-288.html). Maybe even their 50 litre trolley (http://www.purefreedom.co.uk/pure-freedom-50-litre-trolley-system-package-p-294.html), although even I'll admit that'd be a lump to get in and out my car...
Anyway, I'd really appreciate any honest feedback (regarding a trolley setup), any personal experience in using this or similar, and any pointers (that aren't at a van system or the like :)).
Thanks everyone.
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Just buy a backpack job done !!!!
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The worst thing is if you working out of car, you can't carry much water with you due to the weight of it, don't go for a 50lt trolley
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As richard said the 50l is overkill its a monster and you may well break your back from lifting that in & out nevermind falling from a ladder.
i would go for a backpack on some sort of sack truck, will cost you about half what you would spend on a trolley AND IS MORE VERSATILE.
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Yer cheapest way is back pack, with a folding trolley you can pick them up from b and q for about £20
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Its not recommended to use a backpack for a full days work.
For £900 you could build a good trailer system.
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Its not recommended to use a backpack for a full days work.
For £900 you could build a good trailer system.
I'd struggle with parking issues in a lot of places with a trailer, but a trailer and trolley system might work well.
I've not used one; just giving an opinion here.
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Its not recommended to use a backpack for a full days work.
For £900 you could build a good trailer system.
Why's that? I know guys that use then each day every day! And they have no problem!
For £900 I brought just under half my 2 man van mounted system!!
£2500 for my 2man 400lt system with the van!!!
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Please don't shoot me down in flames but how long do you think a 25 litre container of water would last (how long's a piece of string)?
For the sake of arguments, how many litres for this house (http://images.zoopla.co.uk/5cf6fecbaaa1f9f422c7792666d98dae77054ecb_645_430.jpg) if it were identical back and front? Or could you give me an estimate of water usage per hour? I tend to only do short days... 6 hours or so on average probably.
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Its not recommended to use a backpack for a full days work.
For £900 you could build a good trailer system.
I'd struggle with parking issues in a lot of places with a trailer, but a trailer and trolley system might work well.
I've not used one; just giving an opinion here.
That's true, can carry extra water in one of them!
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Please don't shoot me down in flames but how long do you think a 25 litre container of water would last (how long's a piece of string)?
For the sake of arguments, how many litres for this house (http://images.zoopla.co.uk/5cf6fecbaaa1f9f422c7792666d98dae77054ecb_645_430.jpg) if it were identical back and front? Or could you give me an estimate of water usage per hour? I tend to only do short days... 6 hours or so on average probably.
Depending how good you are, maybe one house per 25lt, depends how dirty they are.
My trolley system I can get 3 terrace houses out of it.
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Its not recommended to use a backpack for a full days work.
For £900 you could build a good trailer system.
Why's that? I know guys that use then each day every day! And they have no problem!
For £900 I brought just under half my 2 man van mounted system!!
£2500 for my 2man 400lt system with the van!!!
I know guys that smoke every day and dont have a problem yet.
All I know is that the gardiner 19 litre backpack comes with instructions
recommending not to use it for a full days work.
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i used a backpack & 8/9 25 ltr containers out of an astra estate for a couple of years with no problems get a john hewit 505 18ltr bpack so you can carry by the handle if you dont want it on your back & put a long length of pole hose on it so you can leave at front of the house, that all i use now even though i have a van & in 6 hrs i use under 250 ltrs on a normal day
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Its not recommended to use a backpack for a full days work.
For £900 you could build a good trailer system.
Why's that? I know guys that use then each day every day! And they have no problem!
For £900 I brought just under half my 2 man van mounted system!!
£2500 for my 2man 400lt system with the van!!!
I know guys that smoke every day and dont have a problem yet.
All I know is that the gardiner 19 litre backpack comes with instructions
recommending not to use it for a full days work.
If you not used to it, but the more you use it the more you get used to it and it will be fine.
Like weight lifting.
Most backpacks don't come with all the supporting straps they need like these ones do:-
http://www.jracenstein.com/item/150-075/backpack-rechargeable-elec-4gal-shurflo/
I know that's not from this country, but it's the first one I found.
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i used a backpack & 8/9 25 ltr containers out of an astra estate for a couple of years with no problems get a john hewit 505 18ltr bpack so you can carry by the handle if you dont want it on your back & put a long length of pole hose on it so you can leave at front of the house, that all i use now even though i have a van & in 6 hrs i use under 250 ltrs on a normal day
That's pretty much what I had in mind to wheel the trolley to the front garden and have a hose long enough to cover the entire house... I really don't fancy a backpack all day, I don't want the risk of maybe being crippled by the time I'm 30 ;D
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Joshem, might be worth telling everyone your budget.. Your be surprised what a system cost when sourced the right way ???
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forgfet trollies well over priced i use a backpack out of my
vw passat estate,easily carries 200 ltrs of water in barrels and pack
in boot.
i just use carry handle to pick up and move around as needed i use
around 12 ltrs of water on a box standard 3 bed house 2bay windows etc
on a maintenance clean,i use a good flow but iam rapid been using wfp
since 2007 so im well practised.
some buy cheap foldaway trollies for packs aldis b&q etc personally i find they
just get in my way and slow me down.
i buy packs from john hewitt reasonable price backpacks are decnt for use
and the spares if and when you need them are cheap.
the downside to most packs are that the on off switches are poorly positioned
and dont last long(i generally fit my own cheap lamp through switches)and if they
have flow controllers the pcb doesnt last long...i dont use flow controllers as such
but use a simple flow return to the pack which stops waste but allows the pump
to run normally
im nearly 45 been using packs for the last five yrs and have no physical
issues with them just be sensible and its no problem
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the bpack i use is easy to carry by the handle when full, i tried different trucks from b&q and homebase & they are not strong enough, the wheels bend & spin etc. im 52 now & i can carry a bpack all day long with no problem its only cos i changed my pole hose couple weeks ago & put a much longer length on that i dont, but i also got an old army bergen that im gonna cut a hole in & put the bpack in as they have good straps & back support. i have a gardiners flow control on the end of the bpack hose so i dont really use the on/off switch but i've never had a problem with it either
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Joshem, might be worth telling everyone your budget.. Your be surprised what a system cost when sourced the right way ???
Well ideally I didn't wanna spend more than a grand. Saying that, I do have a bit of money in the bank so could maybe stretch to 2.5k... Could you honestly get a reliable van and van mount for that???
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Joshem, might be worth telling everyone your budget.. Your be surprised what a system cost when sourced the right way ???
Well ideally I didn't wanna spend more than a grand. Saying that, I do have a bit of money in the bank so could maybe stretch to 2.5k... Could you honestly get a reliable van and van mount for that???
my van and 2 mans system with 2 pumps, 2 hoses and full set up for 2 trad guys, plus safety signs, all cost me £2500 a year ago, van past mot with nothing wrong.
so i have to say yes!
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this is what my £2500 got me,
Berlingo van, 2 mans system with 2 pumps, 2 hoses and full set up for 2 trad guys, plus safety signs. Tanks, barrels, portable trolley system, waterproofing protection paint, 110ah battery, solar panels, split charger, 2x18ft poles, 1x32ft pole, 1x42ft pole,
Plus static 1000lt tank, transfer pump, transfer pipe.
Then I have spent about another £300 on upgrades to the van since the pictures, including a hot water system
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I built my 400L van mount with twin Di's & pole for roughly £450
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the bpack i use is easy to carry by the handle when full, i tried different trucks from b&q and homebase & they are not strong enough, the wheels bend & spin etc. im 52 now & i can carry a bpack all day long with no problem its only cos i changed my pole hose couple weeks ago & put a much longer length on that i dont, but i also got an old army bergen that im gonna cut a hole in & put the bpack in as they have good straps & back support. i have a gardiners flow control on the end of the bpack hose so i dont really use the on/off switch but i've never had a problem with it either
kybl i honestly thought you were about 30!! :o
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cheers for that im probably just childish & immature ;D
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this is what my £2500 got me,
Berlingo van, 2 mans system with 2 pumps, 2 hoses and full set up for 2 trad guys, plus safety signs. Tanks, barrels, portable trolley system, waterproofing protection paint, 110ah battery, solar panels, split charger, 2x18ft poles, 1x32ft pole, 1x42ft pole,
Plus static 1000lt tank, transfer pump, transfer pipe.
Then I have spent about another £300 on upgrades to the van since the pictures, including a hot water system
richard what do you use the spiral hose for?
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this is what my £2500 got me,
Berlingo van, 2 mans system with 2 pumps, 2 hoses and full set up for 2 trad guys, plus safety signs. Tanks, barrels, portable trolley system, waterproofing protection paint, 110ah battery, solar panels, split charger, 2x18ft poles, 1x32ft pole, 1x42ft pole,
Plus static 1000lt tank, transfer pump, transfer pipe.
Then I have spent about another £300 on upgrades to the van since the pictures, including a hot water system
richard what do you use the spiral hose for?
The hoses are around the outside my poles, as my poles have taps fitted onto them,
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Joshem, seriously mate, i built up a little berlingo van for my dad. Including the price of the van, clx 22 , tank, di, sign writing, pump and controller all second hand (other than the clx22) it cost £1200. your nearly spending than on a trolley.
Shop around for second hand gear to get you going, forget a trolley or back pack, go second hand van man! :)
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While I agree with the van mount sentiments in this post, the OP stated:
"Right, I am a part-time traditional cleaner and would like a WFP setup. I cannot afford to buy and kit out a van etc. so please don't suggest I do so as it's just not realistic at the moment and I don't even know whether I'll be window cleaning in the coming years as I'm still young."
To go WFP you need long term commitment, which I don't think you have at the moment - yes you can always sell it etc. but it isn't anything like trad that can be done as and when IMHO
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Hi Bruce! I was just showing him what can be done on a budget and after all he was looking to spend 800+ on a trolley. Maybe he thought having a van was going to cost him alot more. Might give him something to think about.
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and sorry just re-read his original post.
Pure freedom trolleys are great!
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To go WFP you need long term commitment, which I don't think you have at the moment - yes you can always sell it etc. but it isn't anything like trad that can be done as and when IMHO
Part-time, traditional and working from a car doesn't sound great but I do take it seriously. It's my only means of income and I run it as well as any window cleaner worth their salt would so I can understand your concerns regarding commitment, especially as I've highlighted them myself too.
Anyway, thanks for everyone's comments and I do appreciate why you've pointed me in the direction of a van and van mount. Perhaps it isn't so unrealistic after all. There's no way I'm going to afford a great big Ford Transit with a flashy 1000l tank with all the trimmings and nor would I need it but a little van does now seem viable. My concern is would the 'DIY' mount be safe in a crash? I've seen that video demonstrating what can happen.
Vans on autotrader go pretty cheap and I have a relative that's a mechanic so that side is more than covered but where is the best place to look for a van mount that would be in my budget?
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Hi Bruce! I was just showing him what can be done on a budget and after all he was looking to spend 800+ on a trolley. Maybe he thought having a van was going to cost him alot more. Might give him something to think about.
Hi Dave
I totally agree with your point with regard to what can be done on a budget and embrace it 100%. Van mount is far better.
And yes he likes the PF trolley; however it was my feeling that he isn't ready to take this direction as he can't just 'pick at it' when he feels like it.
Personally, I think he needs to re evaluate his focus with regard to window cleaning and his future first. I wouldn't spend another penny until I committed to this new direction fully. As the expression goes - he can't be half pregnant.
I'm sorry if it came across that my reply was responding to/ targetting yours as it wasn't meant that way.
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To go WFP you need long term commitment, which I don't think you have at the moment - yes you can always sell it etc. but it isn't anything like trad that can be done as and when IMHO
Part-time, traditional and working from a car doesn't sound great but I do take it seriously. It's my only means of income and I run it as well as any window cleaner worth their salt would so I can understand your concerns regarding commitment, especially as I've highlighted them myself too.
Anyway, thanks for everyone's comments and I do appreciate why you've pointed me in the direction of a van and van mount. Perhaps it isn't so unrealistic after all. There's no way I'm going to afford a great big Ford Transit with a flashy 1000l tank with all the trimmings and nor would I need it but a little van does now seem viable. My concern is would the 'DIY' mount be safe in a crash? I've seen that video demonstrating what can happen.
Vans on autotrader go pretty cheap and I have a relative that's a mechanic so that side is more than covered but where is the best place to look for a van mount that would be in my budget?
Hi Joshem
Sorry to you as well. I don't always use the right words.
What I was trying to say is that if you aren't sure if you will be doing this next year as you are young and could have other options, then I wouldn't advise spending money on kit. Once you have taken the WFP route, there is no going back. Its much like buying a house.
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Spruce you are just a bully thats it me and you are finished ;D
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Josh I would listem to what Spruce has too say. Words of wisdom. Window cleaning could give you all you want with the right attitude.
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Spruce, don't worry, I wasn't at all offended. I did my best to word what I did without you thinking I was :)
Well when I said don't know what I'll be doing in the coming years I was thinking at least 2-3 years from now. It put me off seeing van systems priced at 5k etc. so I thought they were out of the question (financially and investment-wise). But you've all opened my eyes to what can be achieved on a budget like mine.
Could anyone tell me how safe a 'DIY' van mount would be or who could ensure its safety that wouldn't cost the earth?
I found this link which looks good: http://cleaningspot.co.uk/acatalog/Professionnal_kit.html. What do you think?
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Josh, A good tank frame could be fitted by any mechanic worth his salt for very little money, bolted through your floor to the chassis undrneath. This is really the main concern with diy systems. Your relative should be able to fit your frame and tank safely.
You can source tanks, frames, pumps, etc from ebay. Buy a new pole though so you get some life out of it.
Dont worry about the age of the van, as long as it looks clean and tidy and can legally carry the water you need anything and age will do. I like the old peugeot partners or berlingo. The old non turbo engine is great, bullet proof if looked after. Body work (rust wise) is pretty good on them also.
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It really is very simple to set up a van mount do a search on here for all the info you need.
IMO buying a system is wasting a lot of money
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It might be worth while taking a look on eBay or the for sale section on here, you might be able to pick up a van with a little system in the back for £2500.... worth a try.