Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: md_cleaning on February 08, 2006, 02:58:04 pm

Title: water temprature
Post by: md_cleaning on February 08, 2006, 02:58:04 pm
What temprature do you heat your water? Mine is 60 for synthetic and 40 for wool, but reading up lately am wondering if I should go higher and what about upholstery?
Dave
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: md_cleaning on February 08, 2006, 04:19:35 pm
Is that on everything Nick?
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: John Kelly on February 08, 2006, 04:22:36 pm
By the time your water travels through the hose, out of the jets and onto the carpet it has lost a lot of its heat. 40 degrees in the tank is probably 20-30 at the face
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: stevegunn on February 08, 2006, 04:29:16 pm
When using microsplitters hot or cold they still work well.
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Doug Holloway on February 08, 2006, 04:54:02 pm
Dave ,

As John has pointed out you will lose a lot of heat by the time the water hits the carpet.

I will go as high as 90c tank temp on really trashed carpets but would typically be between 60 - 70.

If using Ultimate master or MS I will use about 50c.

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: nick p on February 08, 2006, 10:43:52 pm
hi dave

yes i use this temp on most things

cheers nick p
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care on February 08, 2006, 11:04:40 pm
I'm having a serious rethink about the need for heat. I've bought a cfr tool and cleaned a really grubby 5x8 100% wool oriental rug with cold water after microsplitting. Cleaning results - best yet!!! Drying time - within a couple of hours. Same as using heat. BUT I bet you wouldn't use your hand tool at 400psi with heat and match the cfr tool drying time. I'm considering TOTALLY retooling.

Alan
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Mark Roberts on February 08, 2006, 11:12:47 pm
Not used heat for years.

Only use is when I need to sanatise.

Agree the cfr tools tools are great, the 3 and 5inch i would not be without.
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care on February 08, 2006, 11:36:44 pm
And if you want to talk sanitization the ozone adaption 'has it in the bag' so to speak!
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: ABLECLEAN on February 09, 2006, 12:53:51 am
How do the cfr tools work guys?
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: cleaning co on February 09, 2006, 05:04:47 am
i cleaned a sofa yesterday really bad dogs hav been using it as a bed, high heat of my v2 heater made easy work of it , u hav to use on of these to c the diff it makes to your cleaning !!! i couldnt clean with out it now and they dry alot faster with high tempt  it hardly felt damp even at 100ft u can get them so hot u hav to hold them by the plastic cuff u cant touch the metal , try washing your dirty plates in cold water then try very hot water not much diff is there ?
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care on February 09, 2006, 10:57:57 am
Im confused...are you agreeing with me about the cold water? :o ;D

Alan
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Matt Read on February 09, 2006, 07:31:49 pm
heat is better for the majority of cleaning,i agree with cleaning co.,its quicker drying and easier work with a high temp.
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Doug Holloway on February 10, 2006, 08:10:55 am
Hi Guys,

A bit of science.

Heat speeds up reactions including wetting , emulsification in fact everything.

Heat diisolves faster , some dirt / grease will be soluble in water without detergents etc and this solubility will increase with temp .

Heat will melt some grease allowing it to be removed.

Hot water dries quiker , try putting a saucer of hot water next to a saucer of cold water and watch what happens.

Conclusion

Heat cleans better. ;)

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: John Kelly on February 10, 2006, 09:32:15 am
I'm with you Doug, maybe I'm just set in my ways.
I remember a while ago there was something came out designed to clean dishes with cold water. I gave it a whirl and even though they appeared to be clean something in my psychi just wouldn't accept it.
Water has to reach a certain temperature before it starts evaporating. If a wet carpet is cold it is a while before that moisture starts to leave it. If you can give it a head start it will dry quicker.
Using the CFR tool is all about airflow and using warm water would create even faster drying.
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: cleaning co on February 10, 2006, 10:49:52 am
well said that man doug ;D
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: BRSL on February 10, 2006, 11:02:19 am
could be wrong but its similar to what doug said,  ;)

water at 14 degrees has twice the suffaction rate as water at 0 and so every 14 degrees it's grows exponentially  8)

James
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Doug Holloway on February 10, 2006, 12:55:22 pm
Hi Guys,

Water temperature is not the only thing which affects drying or cleaning,  but when a manufacturer claims to have rewritten the rules of physics , they haven't :o

Greater agitation , airflow, dwell time, chemical composition  etc will all affect cleaning rates , but if all other things remain the same increasing temp will increase cleaning power.

There are occaisions when the chemical is designed to work in a specific temp range e.g Ultimate master or enzyme based products where performance will drop once you go over a certain temperature.

A biological washing powder will contain enzymes which work in differnt temp ranges so it is versatile enough to clean in different situations.

Cheers

Doug

Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: md_cleaning on February 10, 2006, 07:30:12 pm
Thanks for all the answers, rather alot of difference from cold to 90c, with regard to solutions I understood from Nick that they work better hot, as I thought did all chemicals apart from ultimate master and enzimes which as was said have a limit, so was very supprised some people use no heat at all. You learn something new everyday :)
Dave
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: mark_lane on February 10, 2006, 09:20:45 pm
When using m/s heat is not such an issue
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: cleaning co on February 11, 2006, 12:58:17 am
Thanks for all the answers, rather alot of difference from cold to 90c, with regard to solutions I understood from Nick that they work better hot, as I thought did all chemicals apart from ultimate master and enzimes which as was said have a limit, so was very supprised some people use no heat at all. You learn something new everyday :) mmmmmmmm  intresting what some sellers of these chem and machines say to people, one day its buy our machine with no heat its the way forward in cleaning  with our chems no need for heat but i want heat !!  thats ok here u go we supply £500 heaters to go with our no heat needed chems, but u said its the way forward in cleaning no heat on machines no heat chems ? are sir but that was before u said u was going to buy a machine from someone else with heaters built in and chems that need heat, so u telling me heat cleans better now? or cold? or is it just the machines u hav got  not capable of having built in heaters and u hav shed loads of no heat chems to shift? or am i just another gullible punter ::)
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Art on February 11, 2006, 01:01:35 am
Thanks for all the answers, rather alot of difference from cold to 90c, with regard to solutions I understood from Nick that they work better hot, as I thought did all chemicals apart from ultimate master and enzimes which as was said have a limit, so was very supprised some people use no heat at all. You learn something new everyday :) mmmmmmmm  intresting what some sellers of these chem and machines say to people, one day its buy our machine with no heat its the way forward in cleaning  with our chems no need for heat but i want heat !!  thats ok here u go we supply £500 heaters to go with our no heat needed chems, but u said its the way forward in cleaning no heat on machines no heat chems ? are sir but that was before u said u was going to buy a machine from someone else with heaters built in and chems that need heat, so u telling me heat cleans better now? or cold? or is it just the machines u hav got  not capable of having built in heaters and u hav shed loads of no heat chems to shift? or am i just another gullible punter ::)

Your at it again, gary  ;D ;D
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care on February 11, 2006, 09:12:17 am
could be wrong but its similar to what doug said,  ;)

water at 14 degrees has twice the suffaction rate as water at 0 and so every 14 degrees it's grows exponentially  8)

James

Um,... Isn't water at 0 degrees Ice? ;D

I've currently got full Ashby's V2 ninja kit. Mental amounts of heat. Just dont use it much these days since having fully trained. An educated cleaner realizes that it's not all about heat :).
I'm considering selling all my Ashby's kit and changing over to cfr. Massive airflow and most households have water approaching 60 degrees so why have additional heating system. I've tried cfr's claims about cold water with their tools ... and it works. I agree hot water will give drying times a boost so i'll use hot water from the tap if it's there.

Doug have you actually tried cfr tooling?

Regards
Alan
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Doug Holloway on February 11, 2006, 09:38:47 am
Hi Alan,

No I have nottried CFR but would like to .

Water at 0c will still evapourate but very slowly.

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: carpetclean on February 11, 2006, 10:12:47 am
alan of aqualink do you live in wallington or nearby??
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care on February 11, 2006, 01:34:36 pm
not far, why do you ask?

Alan
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: BRSL on February 12, 2006, 01:23:09 pm
Alan I believe that at some altitudes water will boil at 20 degrees, and who says they havent got carpet in the himalayas lol  ;D ;D

James
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Doug Holloway on February 12, 2006, 01:49:42 pm
James,

Thats why you cannot make a cup of tea on Everest as the air pressure is so low ,  the water will boil before it gets warm. :o

Hot water will evapourate faster than cold water because the molecules have more energy , are moving faster and can therefore break out from the various bonds which are holding them.

This is scientific fact and as much as some manufacturers may like to contadict it , it remains fact ;)

Being a sad git I found water chemistry really interesting , afterall with a low molecular weight it should be a gas.

cheers

Doug
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care on February 12, 2006, 04:10:31 pm
Despite all the bickering ;D Your argument is so simple it's bombproof. So yes I will use hot tap water in my machine without the need for a heater using microsplitters that dont require heat and cfr equipment that doesn't need heat ;D.
So purely for drying purposes i'll use hot tap water ;D

Regards
Alan
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: Doug Holloway on February 12, 2006, 04:20:35 pm
Alan,

I think the MS manufacturers recommend applying them warm.

Cheers

Doug
Title: Re: water temprature
Post by: BRSL on February 12, 2006, 06:35:34 pm
oooh Doug your going to go and wind the misis up now were thinking of doing the base camp of everest next year and she aint a happy bunny if she cant have her warm tea lol

James