Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: John Geurkink on December 10, 2012, 05:59:44 pm
-
in your cleaning process? Have you ever tested it?
How many of you have used ATP testing to quantify how much organics you have removed from the carpet?
Or tested to see what the customer is left with when you are finished?
-
the smile on my customers face, the 2 year repeat when its actually still quite clean and emtying and seeing what comes out of my tank is all i need to know john. i think everything else is just waffle. but thats just me mate. i'm sure others will be intrigued to view your findings, i'm guessing your gonna shock us with encap removes more than a trucky.
-
I cant remove much as today's jobs are 6mthly DOMESTICS and they Booked in for Next June/july
-
My answer is............I have no idea and have judged my results purely on what my eyes have told me for the past 30 years.
It's been good enough to get repeats and referrals and I've never felt the urge to justify the service provided.
I have, however read a lot of claims over the years from manufacturers or suppliers of cleaning equipment and I've no doubt that similar sections of carpet taken from a concentrated foot fall area, weighed, beaten, vacuumed and subjected to a number of different systems of cleaning might have surprising results.
This, however is of no interest to the purchaser of carpet cleaning services who will believe what their senses tell them, particularly their sight, touch and smell.
Derek posted while I was typing and typed what I'd expect a T/M user to type which is fair enough ..............but it's worth finding out from ANY recognised expert in their field what their views are and the tests / comparisons they've allowed their products to take part in.
The cleaning method that astonished me when I first tried it was Texatherm which I was using in a retail environment with very high traffic areas.
-
No!
As Derek says, seeing what has come out of a carpet having cleaned it is enough, provided off course you're using a system that actually removes dirt from a carpet in the first place ;D
-
I'm not too fussed at what comes out its more of what the carpet looks like and that's what the customer pays for, I wish I could believe in the op system to use on domestics but I can't.
Shaun
-
Low moisture doe's remove dirt thats why pads are dirty and if looks clean its good enough also how can you tm'ers know youv'e extracted all dirt your just seeing the carpet look clean like us LM'ers and seeing some dirty water like are dirty pad's your not actually seeing your water run clear. Each too there own as argued many times before ;D
-
John
Why dont you just get a machine over here pronto so we can make up our mind for ourselves.
Every minute you waste on here more sprayborgs are being sold.
Mark
-
yeah but isn't padding your only option PM?
you say each to there own but surely that arguement is only correct to guys that only have one option, i have several options when it comes to cleaning a carpet, i use them all, so therefore each to there own doesn't actually apply to me.
-
Low moisture doe's remove dirt thats why pads are dirty and if looks clean its good enough also how can you tm'ers know youv'e extracted all dirt your just seeing the carpet look clean like us LM'ers and seeing some dirty water like are dirty pad's your not actually seeing your water run clear. Each too there own as argued many times before ;D
PM,
Thin argument that one ;D
-
Each to there own opinion Derek you'll have your own opinion on each way you clean and i'l have mine and Simon has his lm don't clean :)
-
I would also love to have other options i'e a Tm or porty and then i mite eat my words and need Simon to help me keep it running haha ;D
-
PM lm does clean and very well in the right circumstances but and it is a Big BUT you cant get the best cleans with t on every job. HWE is the best and most thorough clean and will also make the carpet last longer between cleans.
Its as simple as that ;)
-
yeah but isn't padding your only option PM?
you say each to there own but surely that arguement is only correct to guys that only have one option, i have several options when it comes to cleaning a carpet, i use them all, so therefore each to there own doesn't actually apply to me.
Or me!!
System emloyed is determined by the carpet type, soil level and customer expectation. I don't have 30 years experience, just seven. In that time I've yet to come across ANY system that can do it all. Re: amount of soil extracted. As others have stated, only have to look at the carpet and waste tank to answer that. When padding, yes the pads are dirty........but then I'd be surprised if they weren't. As for VLM, don't use it too often for obvious reasons but when circumstances dictate....... :P
-
I would also love to have other options i'e a Tm or porty and then i mite eat my words and need Simon to help me keep it running haha ;D
Ah, so DF really isn't the business in all circumstances, is it? ;D
Interesting that you say, 'would love to have other options,' why don't you have other options?
Simon
-
Because all circumstances iv'e had iv'e only had DF at my disposal and some were harder work than maybe a burst of hot water but still got down and done job to a good enough standard and money is the reason not enough options ;D
-
I strive for a big one like Captain Big Blower Gerrard!!
;D ;D
-
The thing is you will always be trapped in this endless cycle of poor sales as a result of under-investment unless you break that cycle by getting the tools you need, regardless of what it costs you.
Simon
-
I agree Simon....
I have several buffers of different sizes and speeds, and a variety of pads.. ;D
-
The thing is you will always be trapped in this endless cycle of poor sales as a result of under-investment unless you break that cycle by getting the tools you need, regardless of what it costs you.
Simon
I understand that Simon but this is only my second year on my own and it's been a struggle i never had any startup money just borrowed from family to buy from a friend the setup and with no money behind me just the gear it's a struggle but i'l keep knuckling down and hopefully it will pay off in the end HOPEFULLY and if not well at least i tried :)
-
Good lad keep at it and you will succeed.
But stop arguing with people who know what they are talking about. ;)
Just to add Simon has not got a clue ;D
-
Not Argued with anyone who knows what there talking about haha ;D
-
Phil,
Come out with me for a day, I'll show you what carpet cleaning is all about, you never know, you might be inspired. ;)
Ignore Mossy, he doesn't know what he is talking about either ;D
-
Would love too Simon would like to see how you go about stain removal and stuff i'm ready to learn and better myself lets set a date and i'l be there but gotta be northwest though :)
-
Phil if Simon says grab hold of my hose, make sureyou run as fast as you can ;D
-
I agree...
He made me look at and feel his hose once....... Mrs Hector swooned, and I have never been the same since.. ;D
-
:-* :-* :-*
-
I agree...
He made me look at and feel his hose once....... Mrs Hector swooned, and I have never been the same since.. ;D
Hector,
You were admiring my long hose, so was Mrs Hector, especially when I told her it could suck a bowling ball out of a cupboard with the door closed ;D
-
Who wants a hose that SUCKS...............
-
That is just what Mrs Hector said too Robert......
;D
-
Perhaps we could look at it another way
Lm has a great selling point being 'dry' you could sell dry at a quality angle and it can put you head and shoulders above the competition cd have been doing it for years.
If I truly believed in lm I would use it and market it to death but unfortunately I don't I can see pitfalls, I did use lm for a decent amount of time but I returned to extraction as I was coming across carpets that I believed would respond even better.
Shaun
-
Now come on you HWE guys, NOW it is all about looks?
Hummmm?
-
Now come on you HWE guys, NOW it is all about looks?
Hummmm?
John have you seen a picture of Shaun Ashmoooore ;D
-
If you've seen Simon definitely not ;D
John I know you get the tm power debate all the time but we need some real world videos to show us all how it works not just on commercial man made stuck down.
Shaun
-
Now come on you HWE guys, NOW it is all about looks?
Hummmm?
Well Derek is knackered then!
;D ;D ;D
-
Now come on you HWE guys, NOW it is all about looks?
Hummmm?
With respect John, you're only reading the answer's you want to look at, not the more serious answer's which have stated we use different methods which are appropriate to the carpet, situation and customer expectation. We don't need a sledge hammer to crack a nut, but do need a spanner to remove one........if you see my point.
We recognise you're trying to provoke debate however, you must learn to take ALL serious answer's into consideration and not just "pick" the one's you want to readfor your own purpose.
-
I read the answers, a "few" were serious, however even in them or should I say, in yours, "for obvious reasons" I wonder what that is based on, a statement of suing differing tools for differing situations sounds great, however, what I am looking for is "evidence' that those assumptions are right.
I don't KNOW yet, I get my tester later this week, but will test it on my method and on other methods too, I am just eager to find a way to scientifically prove what each of us are actually doing.
For 39 years all I hear is "I do the best work" or "I remove the most soil" etc, just trying to find a way to prove what we do, one way or the other.
what I like about APT testing is that it tests the removal of organics either live or dead, and will give a number to the amount of removal being done.
-
It's quite simple really.
You send over a few machines to try for any Tmer who is open minded and if they are as good as you say they won't let you have them back. Other than that it's just hot air.
-
I read the answers, a "few" were serious, however even in them or should I say, in yours, "for obvious reasons" I wonder what that is based on, a statement of suing differing tools for differing situations sounds great, however, what I am looking for is "evidence' that those assumptions are right.
I don't KNOW yet, I get my tester later this week, but will test it on my method and on other methods too, I am just eager to find a way to scientifically prove what each of us are actually doing.
For 39 years all I hear is "I do the best work" or "I remove the most soil" etc, just trying to find a way to prove what we do, one way or the other.
what I like about APT testing is that it tests the removal of organics either live or dead, and will give a number to the amount of removal being done.
but no ones gonna believe your results john, you own the trinity, youve spent your entire life, a massive budget, your kids inheritance on developing this machine, course your findings are gonna favour the trinity, i can see it now, quote from john "just done some tests on the trinity and turns out, bloody rubbish, what a waste of 39 years, i won't get them back, don't buy it chaps its pooe" not gonna happen is it john, you need an independant body to test it. send one to paul moss and stop beating around the bush, he'll put it through its paces,
-
ROFLMAO, seems some of you are much more confident than I am, LOL, already assuming a man would lie?
Without testing Wynny, are you any more than hot air?
-
John if you are arranging to test the effectiveness of different cleaning systems, then I would be interested in the testing criteria .
To give a valid result you would need a wide selection of carpet types and soiling conditions for example to take one carpet sample from an office environment would give a different result to a carpet sample from a busy restaurant or cleaning an nylon carpet would give a different result to a wool carpet but without testing the full spectrum you could not get a definitive answer.
But it would be interesting to read your findings
-
Phil,
Come out with me for a day, I'll show you what carpet cleaning is all about, you never know, you might be inspired. ;)
Ignore Mossy, he doesn't know what he is talking about either ;D
Simon could you ring me when you get chance mate i need a bit of advice Thanks 07514 369608 Cheers Phil.
-
I know that I am removing most of the customers spots and stains and more soil than their Bex Bissell. This makes me the best carpet cleaner on the planet, a hero. SO JUST DEAL WITH IT YOU PEASANTS. Okay maybe not the Bex Bissel but definately better than the No Wet Wonder Foam. ;D ;D ;D
-
Mike, I am gathering data and gathering suggestions, of course I will do a bunch of sampling at first, but eventually will have a third party do the study. There are a ton of variables and we want to make sure we DO have a wide selection of carpet types, environments.
This is going to take time.
Also ATP is about removal, in other word ATP testing does not discriminate between LIVING or DEAD organics, so ONLY removal %'s are rated.
Every carpet will have a different starting number, for example, say a carpet tests at 1000 RLU and then after prevac is at 500 RLU then after cleaning is say 200 RLU, the % would be 80% removal, etc.
-
The other consideration is speed.
Using a LM method the carpet always needs pre-vacuumed. Not so with TM HWE.
Cleaning 12x12 rooms and moving furniture, a wand is much quicker.
Cleaning stairs HWE is just better hands down.
Dealing with stains, extraction is required.
The above is for residential cleaning.
Mark
PS. LM cleaning of suites is useless 99.9% of the time unless your in every 6 months.
-
Is hwe quicker? If you do it as iicrc standard, I mean? Prevac, spray, agitate, get hoses out, extract, put hoses back.
Its the setting up I find to be a pain in the @ss - could never see myself using a porty and constantly emptying/refilling throughout a job!
-
The other consideration is speed.
Using a LM method the carpet always needs pre-vacuumed. Not so with TM HWE.
Cleaning 12x12 rooms and moving furniture, a wand is much quicker.
Cleaning stairs HWE is just better hands down.
Dealing with stains, extraction is required.
The above is for residential cleaning.
Mark
PS. LM cleaning of suites is useless 99.9% of the time unless your in every 6 months.
i agree, trying to balance my truvox 17inch on the arms of a recliner without it shooting off is a nightmare ;D
-
The other consideration is speed.
Using a LM method the carpet always needs pre-vacuumed. Not so with TM HWE.
Cleaning 12x12 rooms and moving furniture, a wand is much quicker.
Cleaning stairs HWE is just better hands down.
Dealing with stains, extraction is required.
The above is for residential cleaning.
Respectfully I would argue ALL the points you made...LOL, could stop at just one or two..
1st lm does NOT require (of course depending on the situation) to be prevacced, anymore than HWE, to add moisture to what should have been prevacced is just asking for more problems,
2nd, don't know quite how you got to that conclusion, my machine is 18" wide, moves as freely as a wand and sprays at it goes.
3rd, LM is FAR better at cleaning stairs.
4th, stains? Most are gone immediately, plus for example, you have a tough stain and you get out your spotter and towel? WE simply do that to the whole carpet.
-
Ok now im bored :(
-
I love how Johns response to any negative piont is to state the opposite, but with the use of capitals ( which is the universal sign of what is true :D )
HWE is quicker ..... Johns response .....HWE is NOT quicker
HWE is better on stairs....johns response..... LM is FAR better on stairs
And to say a 110lb 30inch rotory is more mounuvrable than my 12 inch, 7lb wand is hard to believe
-
my df 1 handed up down left right can you do that with ya wand ;D
-
my df 1 handed up down left right can you do that with ya wand ;D
Are we still talking about carpet cleaning?
-
my df 1 handed up down left right can you do that with ya wand ;D
Are we still talking about carpet cleaning?
Whatever turns you on ASH haha ;D
-
No Sure Ash But Wind and Pish Come to mind!
HOW can you not Pre-vac a Gritty after winter carpet and do It LM!!
I clean allot of carpets near the coast and Pull SAND out every day! The vac doesnt get all the sand out my machine does, with what's left behind
If LM so good why arent People doing that to RUGS rather than Doing them in a bath till the water runs clear?
LM Will always be a maintenance only clean, Yes I LM but only when carpet maintained regular.
As for stairs, a property with wood and Tiled floors on the GF, the stair then gets all the grit and dirt, oil and anything else they have on there feet! LM wont get to the bottom of the pile to suck it out!!
each to there own tho!!
-
This week, I've cleaned 6 rugs using my Cimex and Surround ultra. 2 of them I've had to spot using a spotting machine for little bits, otherwise they have all cleaned up fantastically well - and been dry in half the time it would've taken with HWE.
-
If LM so good why arent People doing that to RUGS rather than Doing them in a bath till the water runs clear?
I do - sometimes.
-
The other consideration is speed.
Using a LM method the carpet always needs pre-vacuumed. Not so with TM HWE.
Cleaning 12x12 rooms and moving furniture, a wand is much quicker.
Cleaning stairs HWE is just better hands down.
Dealing with stains, extraction is required.
The above is for residential cleaning.
Respectfully I would argue ALL the points you made...LOL, could stop at just one or two..
1st lm does NOT require (of course depending on the situation) to be prevacced, anymore than HWE, to add moisture to what should have been prevacced is just asking for more problems,
2nd, don't know quite how you got to that conclusion, my machine is 18" wide, moves as freely as a wand and sprays at it goes.
3rd, LM is FAR better at cleaning stairs.
4th, stains? Most are gone immediately, plus for example, you have a tough stain and you get out your spotter and towel? WE simply do that to the whole carpet.
in answer to your answers, specifically question 2
as freely as a wand? i do cobwebs with mine ;D
-
You're not supposed to be cleaning the ceilings, Derek!
-
You wont need the Centrifuge then Jamie ;)
-
was thinkin the same Ceilings ??? and thats what the vac with crevice tools for :)
-
You wont need the Centrifuge then Jamie ;)
causing all out nuclear war now let's end this ;D
-
You're not supposed to be cleaning the ceilings, Derek!
thats where your going wrong ash, its my new USP,
-
You're not supposed to be cleaning the ceilings, Derek!
thats where your going wrong ash, its my new USP,
But doesn't Work cause Frank wants to watch Mary in her maids outfit and feather duster ;D
-
I clean allot of carpets near the coast and Pull SAND out every day! The vac doesnt get all the sand out my machine does, with what's left behind
No your machine doesn't remove all that sand, LOL, we are talking carpet cleaning right? Not utopian bs?
And to say a 110lb 30inch rotory is more mounuvrable than my 12 inch, 7lb wand is hard to believe
An 18" OP and yes, you can run this for 8 hours straight and not get tired, when is the last time you stroked for 8 hours straight?
-
when is the last time you stroked for 8 hours straight?
When i watched Cherry Poppins!
;D ;D ;D
-
Ok so to get back to being serious I did my own tests today.
I emptied the waste tank of my TM and had it analized, and was suprised with the list of soils etc that where in the carpet, the list showed there to be
12 kfc drumsticks
11 vacuum pipes
10 lord Lucans
9 lap dancers
8 molly maids
7 swan vestas
6 gander eggs
5 GOOOOOLD RINGSSSSSSS
4 call girls
3 french maid outfits
2 Turtles Heads ( there is always poope in there)
and a partridge in a pear tree.
Merry crimbo everyone :D
just thought i would put some SPIN on things
-
Ok so to get back to being serious I did my own tests today.
I emptied the waste tank of my TM and had it analized, and was suprised with the list of soils etc that where in the carpet, the list showed there to be
12 kfc drumsticks
vacuum pipes
10 lord Lucans
9 lap dancers
8 molly maids
7 swan vestas
6 gander eggs
5 GOOOOOLD RINGSSSSSSS
4 call girls
3 french maid outfits
2 Turtles Heads ( there is always poope in there)
and a partridge in a pear tree.
Merry crimbo everyone :D
just thought i would put some SPIN on things
yeah john! get that lot on your pad. ;D
-
when is the last time you stroked for 8 hours straight?
When i watched Cherry Poppins!
;D ;D ;D
;D ;D
-
my df 1 handed up down left right can you do that with ya wand ;D
No, but you can do it with an RX20 and have the added bonus of actually cleaning the carpet ;D
-
Andrew can you save me number 9 please.
Shaun
Off for tea now awaiting responses
-
How did you know they where gay dancers Shaun ;D
-
Gay? Women or man pole dances?
The one I don't want I'll pass to billy he'll have anything ;D
Shaun
-
I have tried LM with surround etc and had some good results in that the carpet looks clean. I have used a porty with hot water extraction and then in the past 3 months upgraded to a truckmount. Let me tell you it is far far better than anything else I have used. The crud that comes out of the waste tank is black and stinks but the carpets look the same as the LM, BUT I can see what has been removed. Also the HOT water cuts through the grease and stains really well. (would I wash greasy plates in cold water, no I would use water as hot as I could get)
I am not an expert on the LM but have always been skeptical of where the dirt goes. On the DF I cannot believe that the pads are black and stink so where's the dirt gone.
I don't want to seem an expert as I always want to learn but it seems to me that LM is for a commercial situation where speed is essential both for drying and the fact that offices carpets are needed to be walked on straight away.
If I were tasked with CLEANING an office I would HWE with my truckmount and then bonnet off to dry it as quickly as possible, then nip round to my waste tank and pull off two litres in a jug and be able to show the customer what had been removed from their carpets.