Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ian Lancaster on November 27, 2012, 12:46:42 pm
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........in whether you have certificates, been on courses, got insurance etc. When I used to go canvassing if someone said "No thanks, I've already got one", I would ask who it was, so I could build up a picture of who was working the area, and how carefully they had covered it. The number of people who didn't know their window cleaner's name (other than maybe a first name or nickname) far outstripped those who did. As for whether that window cleaner had insurance, had been on Health & Safety courses etc it had never occurred to them and this seemed to be true even for those who did know who their window cleaner was.
The only criteria they were interested in was that he should be reliable and do a reasonably good job and not cause any damage in the process.
I once mentioned that I had attended a course at the British Window Cleaning Academy - the custy fell about laughing, she was sure I was winding her up, after all, whoever heard of an "Academy" to teach people how to clean windows?
My point is that laudable, and even mandatory it may be to undertake these courses, acquire the certificates and obtain the insurance, the average domestic customer couldn't give a whatsit. It may be necessary, it may enhance your own feeling of self worth, you may even avoid killing yourself in some stupid accident but from the customer's point of view it makes no difference whatsoever and will do nothing to increase your customer base and the real value of your business.
DISCUSS......... :P ;D
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3 things price reliable honest
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3 things price reliable honest
I agree but would put honest, reliable and then price
Art
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Ian, you've hit the nail on the head. I work on a variety of domestic jobs (99% of my work is domestic). I've never been asked if I have insurance, had training or have been CRB-checked. As you and others say, it's those 3 magic things - a good job, done reliably without causing damage. The rest is almost irrelevant to them.
I did the Academy too - Class of 2009. It was interesting and a worthwhile spend, but not essential.
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How do they know your honest until you give them price and then clean, most customer buy on price.
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Dont tell ian wicks these comments.he will fall of his chair and then kick the cat!
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How do they know your honest until you give them price and then clean, most customer buy on price.
Most people buy people first. That's maybe why some people can command higher prices.
Art
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i think a lot of custys see us at the bottm of the food chain ie one said the other week when are you gonna get a proper job i just smiled and said when i get back from a months holiday in goa that took the smile of his face ahole ;D
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Two things matter.
1. You clean their windows
2. You keep turning up
Vin
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Of course the customers are interested ::)
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........in whether you have certificates, been on courses, got insurance etc. When I used to go canvassing if someone said "No thanks, I've already got one", I would ask who it was, so I could build up a picture of who was working the area, and how carefully they had covered it. The number of people who didn't know their window cleaner's name (other than maybe a first name or nickname) far outstripped those who did. As for whether that window cleaner had insurance, had been on Health & Safety courses etc it had never occurred to them and this seemed to be true even for those who did know who their window cleaner was.
The only criteria they were interested in was that he should be reliable and do a reasonably good job and not cause any damage in the process.
I once mentioned that I had attended a course at the British Window Cleaning Academy - the custy fell about laughing, she was sure I was winding her up, after all, whoever heard of an "Academy" to teach people how to clean windows?
My point is that laudable, and even mandatory it may be to undertake these courses, acquire the certificates and obtain the insurance, the average domestic customer couldn't give a whatsit. It may be necessary, it may enhance your own feeling of self worth, you may even avoid killing yourself in some stupid accident but from the customer's point of view it makes no difference whatsoever and will do nothing to increase your customer base and the real value of your business.
DISCUSS......... :P ;D
talk about stirring the pot.....us lesser mortals expect more from you sir! ;D
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3 things price reliable honest
agree and i would say price is always first
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i agree. quite a lot of commercial customers dont even ask.
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All that matters in most of my work is papers papers and papers, ie certificates training H&S etc. nobody checks my work nobody cares if theres bird crap or run marks.
And thats window cleaning perfect job done.
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For most commercial jobs it does matter.
domestic don't give a damn
Its just the same with a builder, they will fix a problem off a ladder for a domestic customer, but that same job on a building site, needs RAMS, hi viz, hard hat, steel boots, training cscs, insurance, if larger company needs, accreditations trained staff etc etc
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No They not intrested,and to be honest ,common sense is key,we only clean windows.
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NO. they want there windows cleaned each month.i think they have better things to worry about than super duper certificates.
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Absolutely bang on the money mate - customers couldn't give a rats ass wether you're qualified at anything let alone window cleaning ;D
Most people have either had a cleaner previously, or virtually everyone has seen a window cleaner working, either trad or pole, and just take it for granted they know what they are doing.
Most of my work comes from recommendation anyway
I bet it would never cross their mind to even consider a qualification in it!
To me, it its people creating an answer to a problem that never existed :)
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How would you feel if someone took your work and they had an NVQ?
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How would you feel if someone took your work and they had an NVQ?
The nvq wouldn't have anything to do with it - undercutting would
You make it sound so simple - "today I'm going to go out and take someone's work"
How would you feel if someone "took" your work and didn't have an nvq?
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Ian is spot on really,
I used to be a member of the federation of window cleaners no one knows who it is.. more importantly they don't care. If you turn up in a van with a name on gives you an advantage to sell your business because they will think its a proper business yes ( so they think your already reliable)..
But there not interested in training or any NVQ, it just doesn't sell it to them.. however other things like oh you can send a cheque in post.. or you can pay online can seriously win you the job! i say it was more price based over the last couple of years than anything else now.
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How would you feel if someone took your work and they had an NVQ?
so a customer ive had for 12 years says to me hes got a NVQ sorry i better get him to clean my windows now.does that mean because hes had his NVQ for 5 minutes hes an expert window cleaner?
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How would you feel if someone took your work and they had an NVQ?
That would never happen for 99.9999999999999999999% of people.
On the other hand- How many people would pay the full price out of their own pockets for any of your courses?
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Yes, but when you start losing work to highly qualified competition then the only answer will be to match them and even surpass their qualifications. It's the only way forward. it's the future of your industry.
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Yes, but when you start losing work to highly qualified competition then the only answer will be to match them and even surpass their qualifications. It's the only way forward. it's the future of your industry.
That would't happen tho because no customer is interested domestic anyway! they just want clean windows done what they agree to! monthly six weekly or what ever.. and it all comes down to price most of the time (price) for a reasonable price... end of story!
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Not one of my customers have asked if I have a qualification, or even how much experience I have.
They simply ask 'how much' and 'when can you do them'.
John
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........in whether you have certificates, been on courses, got insurance etc. When I used to go canvassing if someone said "No thanks, I've already got one", I would ask who it was, so I could build up a picture of who was working the area, and how carefully they had covered it. The number of people who didn't know their window cleaner's name (other than maybe a first name or nickname) far outstripped those who did. As for whether that window cleaner had insurance, had been on Health & Safety courses etc it had never occurred to them and this seemed to be true even for those who did know who their window cleaner was.
The only criteria they were interested in was that he should be reliable and do a reasonably good job and not cause any damage in the process.
I once mentioned that I had attended a course at the British Window Cleaning Academy - the custy fell about laughing, she was sure I was winding her up, after all, whoever heard of an "Academy" to teach people how to clean windows?
My point is that laudable, and even mandatory it may be to undertake these courses, acquire the certificates and obtain the insurance, the average domestic customer couldn't give a whatsit. It may be necessary, it may enhance your own feeling of self worth, you may even avoid killing yourself in some stupid accident but from the customer's point of view it makes no difference whatsoever and will do nothing to increase your customer base and the real value of your business.
DISCUSS......... :P ;D
Re my initial post: I believe "Our Industry" is two quite distinct entities. I am not disputing the requirement for all the bells and whistles if you intend operating in the commercial sector. I do not believe any of it is relevant in the domestic sector, for the many reasons documented throughout this thread
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If Dave Willis is right and we'll start losing our domestic customers to better qualified window cleaner, perhaps someone can come on and give us an example of a customer who has sacked them? Scaremainering comes to mind. What most customers want is to look out of their kitchen window when they're doing the pots and see a nice clear view of the back garden. The rest is just fluff.
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Yes, but when you start losing work to highly qualified competition then the only answer will be to match them and even surpass their qualifications. It's the only way forward. it's the future of your industry.
Can you honestly say that you're gaining customers due to being "highly qualified".
How many of these customers that you've gained insisted on only taking on the most "highly qualified?"
How many insisted on seeing all you lovely certificates?
And, therefore, I'm assuming, these highly sensitive and choosy customers have already informed you that as soon as a more professional and even more highly qualified outfit knocks on their door then you will be dumped?
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Hi Ian
I should learn to read the full post doh
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highly qualified because you have a NVQ so thats better than 20 years experience cleaning windows. my customers would laugh at me if i said i have a NVQ in cleaning windows as would everyone i know.imagine going to the pub & telling all your mates ive got a NVQ in cleaning windows i would be laughed at all night. they would think i was taking the p***.
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customers know they are lucky when they find a decent cleaner,
i believe this "lucky feeling" could be milked more by wearing embroidered badges of qualification so they know theyv got an extra special one . 1 of my workers was wearing a beanie hat with a lovely red n gold embroidered patch and customers commented on it-Quite by chance i found out its a patch belonging to "the Meridian Bloodline " gang on a Tottenham estate
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Yes, but when you start losing work to highly qualified competition then the only answer will be to match them and even surpass their qualifications. It's the only way forward. it's the future of your industry.
Sorry Dave, but highly qualified for what? Cleaning windows? Are you serious?
I can just imagine having to show Mrs Bloggs all my certificates just so as I can clean the windows of her 2 up 2 down semi.
What's next, an accountancy NVQ to write out a receipt?
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Highly qualified to do your job of course. You wouldn't employ someone to fix your brakes for you with no qualifications would you?
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i wonder how all those customers feel now where window cleaners have died on there properties tho and been subject to hse investigations etc this guy sums it up in this article so maybe customers should be more aware of not really caring who they sign up and its down to us window cleaners to make them aware
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9466514/Jeremy-Vne.html#
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Here's my twopenneth.
One could have all the academic qualifications in the world, but lack the one thing we need to apply in our game - common sense.
John
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Yes, but when you start losing work to highly qualified competition then the only answer will be to match them and even surpass their qualifications. It's the only way forward. it's the future of your industry.
Is this a hijacked account?
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Highly qualified to do your job of course. You wouldn't employ someone to fix your brakes for you with no qualifications would you?
Analogies are best when like is compared with like. The above is a red herring.
Window cleaning bears no resemblance to having brakes fitted.
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Would you employ Dr Crippen to bake you a cake? Stevie Wonder to decorate your house? Garry Glitter to child mind for you?
No, you'd want a proper person with credentials.
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Would you employ Dr Crippen to bake you a cake? Stevie Wonder to decorate your house? Garry Glitter to child mind for you?
No, you'd want a proper person with credentials.
Ok. I fell for it. ;D
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From the customers' point of view, I think they want an honest, friendly, reliable window cleaner who does a good job for a fair price. I don't really think they care about qualifications.
However, if a window cleaner wants to better himself by getting qualifications, I think it is a real shame that people knock him! Also, by going on these certificated courses, he may learn some tips that make him, quicker, more effective, better quality, just a little something that means he can add a bit more profit to the working day. Fair play to them.
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From the customers' point of view, I think they want an honest, friendly, reliable window cleaner who does a good job for a fair price. I don't really think they care about qualifications.
However, if a window cleaner wants to better himself by getting qualifications, I think it is a real shame that people knock him! Also, by going on these certificated courses, he may learn some tips that make him, quicker, more effective, better quality, just a little something that means he can add a bit more profit to the working day. Fair play to them.
i think this a very good post indeed.
I like to standout from the crowd from a marketing angle I also like learning new things that was two good enough reasons for me tondo this a couple of years back.
Just to reply to my avid fan :) I certainly will not kick my cat as i dont have one ;)
because some cant see it as a benefit makes no odds to me, though it is a shame. Things are changing.
if i said to you all 30 years ago that in time you will be cleaning windows with a carbon stick and an adapted floor brush with only water and you would leave the windiws wet you would have laughed me out the boozer, my point is times change some accept it some fight it but it changes regardless. Look at the Internet everyone said it wouldn't catch on lol.
Just to reply about the mates laughing.
My mates USED to laugh at me for being a window cleaner, they don't laugh anymore, they also know I have an nvq in it but they don't laugh at that either. did them laughing at me when i said is was going to become a window cleaner stop me doing it (Nope) they now get what I'm doing, to me the ones that laugh don't understand it or are missing the point totally IMO (I say IMO as that's my thoughts right or wrong) I know we are all different and have differnent views I respect.
I will carry on doing what I'm doing in my business using the nvq as a benefit, as will you guys do what you do. from the nvq and training side helping people is what I enjoy doing so is right up my street and will carry on regardless of the haters.
It is good that this is being discussed, I enjoy reading everyone's replies good or bad all feedback is useful :)
Now that's out of my head I better get back to work :)
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From the customers' point of view, I think they want an honest, friendly, reliable window cleaner who does a good job for a fair price. I don't really think they care about qualifications.
However, if a window cleaner wants to better himself by getting qualifications, I think it is a real shame that people knock him! Also, by going on these certificated courses, he may learn some tips that make him, quicker, more effective, better quality, just a little something that means he can add a bit more profit to the working day. Fair play to them.
i think this a very good post indeed.
I like to standout from the crowd from a marketing angle I also like learning new things that was two good enough reasons for me tondo this a couple of years back.
Just to reply to my avid fan :) I certainly will not kick my cat as i dont have one ;)
because some cant see it as a benefit makes no odds to me, though it is a shame. Things are changing.
if i said to you all 30 years ago that in time you will be cleaning windows with a carbon stick and an adapted floor brush with only water and you would leave the windiws wet you would have laughed me out the boozer, my point is times change some accept it some fight it but it changes regardless. Look at the Internet everyone said it wouldn't catch on lol.
Just to reply about the mates laughing.
My mates USED to laugh at me for being a window cleaner, they don't laugh anymore, they also know I have an nvq in it but they don't laugh at that either. did them laughing at me when i said is was going to become a window clear stop me doing it (Nope) they now get what I'm doing, to me the ones that laugh don't understand it or are missing the point totally IMO (I say IMO as that's my thoughts right it wrong) I know we are all different and have differnent views I respect.
I will carry on doing what I'm doing in my business using the nvq as a benefit, as will you guys do what you do. from the nvq and training side helping people is what I enjoy doing so is right up my street and will carry on regardless of the haters.
It is good that this is being discussed, I enjoy reading everyone's replies good or bad all feedback is useful :)
Now that's out of my head I better get back to work :)
Fair play to you fella and im not a hater.
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From the customers' point of view, I think they want an honest, friendly, reliable window cleaner who does a good job for a fair price. I don't really think they care about qualifications.
However, if a window cleaner wants to better himself by getting qualifications, I think it is a real shame that people knock him! Also, by going on these certificated courses, he may learn some tips that make him, quicker, more effective, better quality, just a little something that means he can add a bit more profit to the working day. Fair play to them.
i think this a very good post indeed.
I like to standout from the crowd from a marketing angle I also like learning new things that was two good enough reasons for me tondo this a couple of years back.
Just to reply to my avid fan :) I certainly will not kick my cat as i dont have one ;)
because some cant see it as a benefit makes no odds to me, though it is a shame. Things are changing.
if i said to you all 30 years ago that in time you will be cleaning windows with a carbon stick and an adapted floor brush with only water and you would leave the windiws wet you would have laughed me out the boozer, my point is times change some accept it some fight it but it changes regardless. Look at the Internet everyone said it wouldn't catch on lol.
Just to reply about the mates laughing.
My mates USED to laugh at me for being a window cleaner, they don't laugh anymore, they also know I have an nvq in it but they don't laugh at that either. did them laughing at me when i said is was going to become a window clear stop me doing it (Nope) they now get what I'm doing, to me the ones that laugh don't understand it or are missing the point totally IMO (I say IMO as that's my thoughts right or wrong) I know we are all different and have differnent views I respect.
I will carry on doing what I'm doing in my business using the nvq as a benefit, as will you guys do what you do. from the nvq and training side helping people is what I enjoy doing so is right up my street and will carry on regardless of the haters.
It is good that this is being discussed, I enjoy reading everyone's replies good or bad all feedback is useful :)
Now that's out of my head I better get back to work :)
Fair play to you fella and im not a hater.
Thank you ;) and good to hear :)
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Maybe write off to your local MP to have GCSE exams in window cleaning whilst kids are still at school? Come to that, why not have degree courses at universities?
Afterall, if someone I know has a degree in in small arms weapons of world war II why not have one for something like window cleaning?
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You are making the argument 'for' risked a. You just can't see it, no offence but IMHO, you are in denial.
I've got bucket loads of quake from my social worker days. Not a single one has never been put to good use nor benefitted me directly. And they still help me in my work and benefit my customers to this day
For an example, I can counsell the bereaved, i have used that 'skill' very recently.
Any qualification makes us who we are; a sum of our parts.
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Maybe write off to your local MP to have GCSE exams in window cleaning whilst kids are still at school? Come to that, why not have degree courses at universities?
Afterall, if someone I know has a degree in in small arms weapons of world war II why not have one for something like window cleaning?
im not getting into what I think about the gcse's and what schools teach as I don't agree with half of it but not doing some of the courses i regret, but that's another topic, uni degree is a good idea always wanted some letters after my name if not before :)
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I can see it now Ian Wikes B.E.R.K. ;D
Britains educational and risk assessment king.
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From the customers' point of view, I think they want an honest, friendly, reliable window cleaner who does a good job for a fair price. I don't really think they care about qualifications.
However, if a window cleaner wants to better himself by getting qualifications, I think it is a real shame that people knock him! Also, by going on these certificated courses, he may learn some tips that make him, quicker, more effective, better quality, just a little something that means he can add a bit more profit to the working day. Fair play to them.
Best post of the thread.
Customers don't care much, but it could be good for US if we go on courses.
What the customer cares about isn't the onlt thing to consider, for example the custy doesn't care if you buy a lighter brush, but you might benefit.
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I can see it now Ian Wikes B.E.R.K. ;D
Britains educational and risk assessment king.
hahahahaha love it! :)
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........in whether you have certificates, been on courses, got insurance etc.
Been wanting to reply to this all week and not had time until this afternoon...
I would have to say that the majority of the time my customers have absolutely no interest what-so-ever, I've even had a few laugh out loud and thought I was joking about the qualifications.
3 things price reliable honest
I agree but would put honest, reliable and then price
Art
Completely agree but would add the customer would want some confidence that you will do a decent job.
Whilst a customer might laugh at me for having any of the above, they do all help me demonstrate that I am honest, capable and reliable.
I don't like that I live in a "where there's blame there's a claim" culture! I don't like what I feel are stupid extremes that the HSE have started to shove down our necks with respect to what is common sense and health and safety. I feel like the government is just covering its arse and when it comes to small businesses it appears to do NOTHING to enforce some of the ridiculous laws they impose. In the summer half my competition is claiming dole and can't even spell HSE! Every time some minister some where says "reduce deaths" some dude in HSE looks at the 'statistics' and says thing like "avoid work at height!!" And then the government and insurance companies say "ahhh, he/she shouldn't have been doing that... it's not our fault / responsibility... we even advised them not to do it".
My customers may not be interest mate but in this day and age, I'd feel vulnerable without them.
On a more positive note, I know my certificates have given me business opportunities I wouldn't otherwise of had. I would go as far as saying 97% of my customers don't care but I know 3% of them do and they generate 7k per annum for me at the moment. 8)
Duncan