Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Nick Wareham on November 17, 2012, 07:50:28 pm
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Well, finally we have an answer from the illustrius Andy Willis.
He thinks that if you don't courdon off the area when using poles, then you're in breach of the work at height regulations. And this is because there is a risk of falling poles.
Why is this important? Because it calls into question whether Andy Willis and his crew really do know what they're on about when it comes to using waterfed poles and what is 'reasonably practicable'. It also tells us whether he is the window cleaner's friend or foe.
The work at height regs say that:
"Every employer shall, where necessary to prevent injury to any person, take suitable and sufficient steps to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, the fall of any material or object."
( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/735/regulation/10/made )
So, the question really is, is it "reasonably practicable" to courdon off an area when using poles?
To me the answer is totally obvious! Of course it isn't, and anyone who actually uses poles for window cleaning knows that.
Is courdoning off an area an appropriate response to the risk involved?
OBVIOUSLY NO!
Becuase I've never heard of anyone being injured by falling poles, and I would argue that the risk is minimal, and does not justify such a drastic measure of courdoning off. Also, if this were such a risk that it needed courdoning off, then the same would be true of extended ladders.
To put it bluntly, Andy Willis, in my opinion you are talking rubbish.
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The pole could of course fall backwards this is the reason I always close off the road I'm working in.
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if your talking std domestic houses then NO
but defo when working at 3 storey's + and where their is a lot of public foot traffic
we do a 4 storey hotel and always courdon off the area last year doing some flats the gooseneck snapped
and the brush came down, which may not have killed any1 but would/could have caused a serious head injury
i have also been cleaning when suddenly the wind syarts to gust - believe me it's extremely hard keeping the
pole from flying off the building
Darran
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Well, finally we have an answer from the illustrius Andy Willis.
He thinks that if you don't courdon off the area when using poles, then you're in breach of the work at height regulations. And this is because there is a risk of falling poles.
Why is this important? Because it calls into question whether Andy Willis and his crew really do know what they're on about when it comes to using waterfed poles and what is 'reasonably practicable'. It also tells us whether he is the window cleaner's friend or foe.
The work at height regs say that:
"Every employer shall, where necessary to prevent injury to any person, take suitable and sufficient steps to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, the fall of any material or object."
( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/735/regulation/10/made )
So, the question really is, is it "reasonably practicable" to courdon off an area when using poles?
To me the answer is totally obvious! Of course it isn't, and anyone who actually uses poles for window cleaning knows that.
Is courdoning off an area an appropriate response to the risk involved?
OBVIOUSLY NO!
Becuase I've never heard of anyone being injured by falling poles, and I would argue that the risk is minimal, and does not justify such a drastic measure of courdoning off. Also, if this were such a risk that it needed courdoning off, then the same would be true of extended ladders.
To put it bluntly, Andy Willis, in my opinion you are talking rubbish.
Hi Nick i currently am of the same opinion as yourself when it comes to courdoning off the fall area of a pole but in the end if an accident occured it would come down to how the regs are interpreted Andrew on his course showed it is our responsibility to protect public from falling objects when working and suggests courdoning off to be the answer. it is up to ourselves if we follow his advice
i like yourself believe this risk to be minimal and likewise have not heard of any accidents where this has happened, on a couple of jobs i have done using 70ft poles i have had a banksman to warn of the work being carried out as at the time with amount of pedestrian traffic i thought it was necassary, would this of been enough if an accident had occured the truth is i dont know.
i am just off to the funfair now to buy some helium filled ballons how many do you think i will need tieing to brush head to stop it falling ;D ;D
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Man this is bizarre! I've been a window cleaner for 28 years and in my time I've done some silly things on a ladder - fell off twice 27 years ago but was my own fault over - stretching - not fallen off since. My mate fell off his ladder this week cos it slipped and he put his hand through glass and cut himself not badly tho. So I can understand the worry and safety over the use of a ladder.
But surely anyone with common sense using a pole, feeling strong when using it, in nearly 4 years I have never come close to dropping, damaging someone, even in strong wind. Perhaps collapsing it down when moving house to house etc which cuts down the risks. But come on this is nonsense cordon off "a road" (!!!!!) on domestic houses paths etc! It's seems to me that H& S try in their little offices to think of everything possible that can go wrong with using anything, which of course most never happen in real life.
health and safety gone mad - just my opinion of course.
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So if using a 30 foot long pole should you cordon off a minimum 30 foot radius?
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Man this is bizarre! I've been a window cleaner for 28 years and in my time I've done some silly things on a ladder - fell off twice 27 years ago but was my own fault over - stretching - not fallen off since. My mate fell off his ladder this week cos it slipped and he put his hand through glass and cut himself not badly tho. So I can understand the worry and safety over the use of a ladder.
But surely anyone with common sense using a pole, feeling strong when using it, in nearly 4 years I have never come close to dropping, damaging someone, even in strong wind. Perhaps collapsing it down when moving house to house etc which cuts down the risks. But come on this is nonsense cordon off "a road" (!!!!!) on domestic houses paths etc! It's seems to me that H& S Mr Willis & Impact43 try in their little offices to think of everything possible that can go wrong with using anything, which of course most never happen in real life.
health and safety gone mad - just my opinion of course.
Corrected it for you
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Did Andrew not tell you he owns a cone factory
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Did Andrew not tell you he owns a cone factory
;D I like ice cream ;D
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Ahhhh cheers James I knew I was missing something lol
David - if this is the way window cleaning is going then I think we should all invest in cones !!! Of course I don't think it will :o
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Hi Chez
I think cones are the one must have for wfp, we have 2 in each van
1 saying "caution trip hazard", and one saying "warning trip hazard cone ahead"
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Anyone who has been on one of Andrews Impact 43 courses remembers the first sentance he says, how much is your life worth ? and as the law says so far as reasonably practicle, the price of a few cones and a few minutes a day cordoning of areas is worth it, and any judge will support it.
whats the value of you or your employees or the publics lives............. most sensible people will agree PRICELESS
idealrob
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Hi David - good one hahaha I do agree tho that cones are important to warn the public which I have. But all this talk of " how much is your life worth" when all we are talking about is a 1.2kg pole safely with control extended and retracted against a house, and we say how much is your life worth? Wow did I miss the headlines or something - how many people have died or been injured so far - it must have been awful! Joking aside guys be sensible work safely and all the best to all :)
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Anyone who has been on one of Andrews Impact 43 courses remembers the first sentance he says, how much is your life worth ? and as the law says so far as reasonably practicle, the price of a few cones and a few minutes a day cordoning of areas is worth it, and any judge will support it.
whats the value of you or your employees or the publics lives............. most sensible people will agree PRICELESS
idealrob
so do your lads cordon off left. right and back? and how does the traffic cope with that when you close a city centre
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This has nothing to do with window cleaning but gives an insight on how the HSE and claim solicitors go about their duty, on local television last night a rail company has been fined and ordered to pay compensation the reason being a teenage boy climbed over a fence into a train yard then climbed up onto the top of one of the wagons and was then electrecuted by an overhead cable, the fence he climbed through had warnings of no tresspassing and warnings of high voltage electric.
This was a tragic accident and it was decided the rail company had failed to provide proper security for the site and therfore found liable. In my opinion this ruling was absolutely stupid it wasnt a young child who could not read that had wandered onto an unsecured site and died this was some teenage lad seeking a thrill, although tragic surely the boy was old enough to take responsibility for his own actions and should never of got to court,
My point being what we feel may be common sense rulings may not be the case when solicitors get hold of the matter
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Hi Chez
I think cones are the one must have for wfp, we have 2 in each van
1 saying "caution trip hazard", and one saying "warning trip hazard cone ahead"
I'm gonna get myself a set like the Russian dolls ;D ;D
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I have actually seen someone trip over a cone
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I have actually seen someone trip over a cone
i have actually tripped over one of my own cones ???
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Trev
Maybe because it is a bare wire, any untrained person should of not been allowed to come into contact with it no matter what the circumstances were.
Mayme the same reason pylons have tons of barbed wire around the base, although as a kid we used to climb half way up them
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Yes they stepped over a 10 mm bright yellow hose and tripped on 2 foot high cone !
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This has nothing to do with window cleaning but gives an insight on how the HSE and claim solicitors go about their duty, on local television last night a rail company has been fined and ordered to pay compensation the reason being a teenage boy climbed over a fence into a train yard then climbed up onto the top of one of the wagons and was then electrecuted by an overhead cable, the fence he climbed through had warnings of no tresspassing and warnings of high voltage electric.
This was a tragic accident and it was decided the rail company had failed to provide proper security for the site and therfore found liable. In my opinion this ruling was absolutely stupid it wasnt a young child who could not read that had wandered onto an unsecured site and died this was some teenage lad seeking a thrill, although tragic surely the boy was old enough to take responsibility for his own actions and should never of got to court,
My point being what we feel may be common sense rulings may not be the case when solicitors get hold of the matter
top post - and a good example to those that think H&S does not effect them.
i don't agree with most of it but like the good ol' US of A no one wants to take responsability to their actions
and are happy to blame and claim from another party
Darran
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H & S is supposed to be about managing risk and reducing it to an acceptable level and not necessarily about eliminating it altogether.
To set up an area of safety on a flat roof (when I was doing roped access stuff) you had to first go on the roof in order to set up the safe area.
Now that I do ordinary window cleaning using wfp, what I do is cordon off the whole town before I work.
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he did not tell me it is illegal if you dont, but he told me you will be liable it it all go's t1ts up ;)
could you of coned it off ?
why did you not cone the area off ?
would they have got hit if the area was coned off ?
still think your not liable?
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Does anyone know how many people were killed or seriously injured by wfp in the last 12 months? Perhaps there's been a lot, we just don't know enough to make an informed decision regarding cordoning off areas.
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I have a cone saying "Caution ADREW WILLIS"
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When I electrocute myself on an overhead cable just make sure the electricity board get screwed in court please.
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yes there is a member on here who walked backward off a flat roof landing on a fire escape and railings
broken ribs and pelvis think it was 6 weeks before being able to work.
Darran
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I feel sorry for all the abseilers out there. I mean, they more often than not start from a flat roof!
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News just in:
You are living illegally. Kill yourself to solve this problem.
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Anyone who has been on one of Andrews Impact 43 courses remembers the first sentance he says, how much is your life worth ? and as the law says so far as reasonably practicle, the price of a few cones and a few minutes a day cordoning of areas is worth it, and any judge will support it.
whats the value of you or your employees or the publics lives............. most sensible people will agree PRICELESS
idealrob
Why do people who have been on the course feel the need to defend the course and then make statements like this ?
So when i clean a house, i have to cordon of 20 ft all around the house ? Would that not take more than a few minutes per day ? i would most of the time need to shut the pavement aswell ? lets be serious here, no-one would do it , except people like idealrob who have been on the course ?
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Trev
Maybe because it is a bare wire, any untrained person should of not been allowed to come into contact with it no matter what the circumstances were.
Mayme the same reason pylons have tons of barbed wire around the base, although as a kid we used to climb half way up them
no dave it was an overhead electric wire that electric trains get there power from, the kid actually climbed on top of the carriage and was electricuted, the rail yard fined now has to have 24hr security personel on the site
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A friend of mine has just paid £17,000 to demolish a pavillion on a disused bowling green,the site was secured and had the signs up but a survey deemed the roof unsafe and this meant a burgling scrote or an inquisitive minor might fall through it.As the land/building is currently held in trust with the bank as a trustee,the banks legal dept. considered the roof must be repaired or the building demolished to avoid possible litigation from an injured "trespasser".
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Anyone who has been on one of Andrews Impact 43 courses remembers the first sentance he says, how much is your life worth ? and as the law says so far as reasonably practicle, the price of a few cones and a few minutes a day cordoning of areas is worth it, and any judge will support it.
whats the value of you or your employees or the publics lives............. most sensible people will agree PRICELESS
idealrob
Why do people who have been on the course feel the need to defend the course and then make statements like this ?
why do you feel the need to talk about a course that you have not been on and clesrly know very little about James, can you not get the funding for it is as you seem to have a Big chip on your shoulder about it. I would bet you money you would learn something new that would help you that is of course if you don't know everything already. Be interested to know the reel reason your trolling threads in it
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id love to know the national stats on injuries to people resulting from accidents from wfp . someone must know right.
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id love to know the national stats on injuries to people resulting from accidents from wfp . someone must know right.
why would you like to know them cowboy lol ( sorry that name makes me laugh)
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why would you like to know them cowboy lol ( sorry that name makes me laugh)
Because if there were any (which I highly doubt) they would likely say:
"Number of injuries caused by falling poles : ZERO"
The point being that this isn't a significant risk, and certainly not one that would require courdons to be placed. Doing so is simply disproportionate to the risk involved and would never be considered 'reasonably practicable'.
Andy Willis and his crew are clearly coming up with idiotic statements like 'over 90% of window cleaning with waterfed poles doesn't comply with the law' to scare people into coming on their training course, and continue claiming money for the government for each one. His whole business depends on this so of course he's going to try to scare people into thinking they need training any way he can.
If you can't see that his only objective is to get people to do his course then you are naive. If he had the window cleaner's interests at heart, he wouldn't want to see us burdened with unnessassry regulations, let alone be interpreting them to wrongly imply that we need to do something the law doesnt require.
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Anyone who has been on one of Andrews Impact 43 courses remembers the first sentance he says, how much is your life worth ? and as the law says so far as reasonably practicle, the price of a few cones and a few minutes a day cordoning of areas is worth it, and any judge will support it.
whats the value of you or your employees or the publics lives............. most sensible people will agree PRICELESS
idealrob
Why do people who have been on the course feel the need to defend the course and then make statements like this ?
why do you feel the need to talk about a course that you have not been on and clesrly know very little about James, can you not get the funding for it is as you seem to have a Big chip on your shoulder about it. I would bet you money you would learn something new that would help you that is of course if you don't know everything already. Be interested to know the reel reason your trolling threads in it
Getting tetchy now eh Mr Washers ( is that your real name ? ) , i wonder if it has anything to do with me asking about your ' vested interest ' in these topics ?
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why would you like to know them cowboy lol ( sorry that name makes me laugh)
Because if there were any (which I highly doubt) they would likely say:
"Number of injuries caused by falling poles : ZERO"
The point being that this isn't a significant risk, and certainly not one that would require courdons to be placed. Doing so is simply disproportionate to the risk involved and would never be considered 'reasonably practicable'.
Andy Willis and his crew are clearly coming up with idiotic statements like 'over 90% of window cleaning with waterfed poles doesn't comply with the law' to scare people into coming on their training course, and continue claiming money for the government for each one. His whole business depends on this so of course he's going to try to scare people into thinking they need training any way he can.
If you can't see that his only objective is to get people to do his course then you are naive. If he had the window cleaner's interests at heart, he wouldn't want to see us burdened with unnessassry regulations, let alone be interpreting them to wrongly imply that we need to do something the law doesnt require.
+1
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why would you like to know them cowboy lol ( sorry that name makes me laugh)
Because if there were any (which I highly doubt) they would likely say:
"Number of injuries caused by falling poles : ZERO"
The point being that this isn't a significant risk, and certainly not one that would require courdons to be placed. Doing so is simply disproportionate to the risk involved and would never be considered 'reasonably practicable'.
Andy Willis and his crew are clearly coming up with idiotic statements like 'over 90% of window cleaning with waterfed poles doesn't comply with the law' to scare people into coming on their training course, and continue claiming money for the government for each one. His whole business depends on this so of course he's going to try to scare people into thinking they need training any way he can.
If you can't see that his only objective is to get people to do his course then you are naive. If he had the window cleaner's interests at heart, he wouldn't want to see us burdened with unnessassry regulations, let alone be interpreting them to wrongly imply that we need to do something the law doesnt require.
+1
+2
Add to that people like Washers adding fuel to the fire and shouting down people who do not buy this rubbish
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I have actually seen someone trip over a cone
i have actually tripped over one of my own cones ???
First day I ever used a cone, I was looking at it while I was walking back to the van and tripped over the hose reel.
Vin
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we do a 4 storey hotel and always courdon off the area last year doing some flats the gooseneck snapped
and the brush came down, which may not have killed any1 but would/could have caused a serious head injury
Then your risk assessment is missing an equipment check.
Vin
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Well, finally we have an answer from the illustrius Andy Willis.
He thinks that if you don't courdon off the area when using poles, then you're in breach of the work at height regulations. And this is because there is a risk of falling poles.
Why is this important? Because it calls into question whether Andy Willis and his crew really do know what they're on about when it comes to using waterfed poles and what is 'reasonably practicable'. It also tells us whether he is the window cleaner's friend or foe.
The work at height regs say that:
"Every employer shall, where necessary to prevent injury to any person, take suitable and sufficient steps to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, the fall of any material or object."
( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/735/regulation/10/made )
So, the question really is, is it "reasonably practicable" to courdon off an area when using poles?
To me the answer is totally obvious! Of course it isn't, and anyone who actually uses poles for window cleaning knows that.
Is courdoning off an area an appropriate response to the risk involved?
OBVIOUSLY NO!
Becuase I've never heard of anyone being injured by falling poles, and I would argue that the risk is minimal, and does not justify such a drastic measure of courdoning off. Also, if this were such a risk that it needed courdoning off, then the same would be true of extended ladders.
To put it bluntly, Andy Willis, in my opinion you are talking rubbish.
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161090.0;all
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Well, finally we have an answer from the illustrius Andy Willis.
He thinks that if you don't courdon off the area when using poles, then you're in breach of the work at height regulations. And this is because there is a risk of falling poles.
Why is this important? Because it calls into question whether Andy Willis and his crew really do know what they're on about when it comes to using waterfed poles and what is 'reasonably practicable'. It also tells us whether he is the window cleaner's friend or foe.
The work at height regs say that:
"Every employer shall, where necessary to prevent injury to any person, take suitable and sufficient steps to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, the fall of any material or object."
( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/735/regulation/10/made )
So, the question really is, is it "reasonably practicable" to courdon off an area when using poles?
To me the answer is totally obvious! Of course it isn't, and anyone who actually uses poles for window cleaning knows that.
Is courdoning off an area an appropriate response to the risk involved?
OBVIOUSLY NO!
Becuase I've never heard of anyone being injured by falling poles, and I would argue that the risk is minimal, and does not justify such a drastic measure of courdoning off. Also, if this were such a risk that it needed courdoning off, then the same would be true of extended ladders.
To put it bluntly, Andy Willis, in my opinion you are talking rubbish.
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161090.0;all
All posters
If you would like to choose a central location to get together I will give up a day and thoroughly address this issue
No pay
No funding
My time free
if you want to give up yours,
See there was no uptake on this, that would take effort
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Anyone who has been on one of Andrews Impact 43 courses remembers the first sentance he says, how much is your life worth ? and as the law says so far as reasonably practicle, the price of a few cones and a few minutes a day cordoning of areas is worth it, and any judge will support it.
whats the value of you or your employees or the publics lives............. most sensible people will agree PRICELESS
idealrob
Why do people who have been on the course feel the need to defend the course and then make statements like this ?
why do you feel the need to talk about a course that you have not been on and clearly know very little about James, can you not get the funding for it is as you seem to have a Big chip on your shoulder about it. I would bet you money you would learn something new that would help you that is of course if you don't know everything already. Be interested to know the reel reason your trolling threads in it
Getting tetchy now eh Mr Washers ( is that your real name ? ) , i wonder if it has anything to do with me asking about your ' vested interest ' in these topics ?
not at all tetchy James you really don't affect mind mindset I find it rather amusing if I'm honest, just to clear it up for you my name is Ian Wicks my business is called Window Washers, if you look in my profile you would see a link to my site. I was simply asking you a question ( i guess that you may of overlooked this) could you answer that for me.
I have nothing to hide ;) if at all you bothered me I simpley would ignor your posts
I come on here to help and learn not to try to pick argument as that would make me a very sad person indeed with something missing in my life.
Now try and be nice and answer the question James
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Well, finally we have an answer from the illustrius Andy Willis.
He thinks that if you don't courdon off the area when using poles, then you're in breach of the work at height regulations. And this is because there is a risk of falling poles.
Why is this important? Because it calls into question whether Andy Willis and his crew really do know what they're on about when it comes to using waterfed poles and what is 'reasonably practicable'. It also tells us whether he is the window cleaner's friend or foe.
The work at height regs say that:
"Every employer shall, where necessary to prevent injury to any person, take suitable and sufficient steps to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, the fall of any material or object."
( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/735/regulation/10/made )
So, the question really is, is it "reasonably practicable" to courdon off an area when using poles?
To me the answer is totally obvious! Of course it isn't, and anyone who actually uses poles for window cleaning knows that.
Is courdoning off an area an appropriate response to the risk involved?
OBVIOUSLY NO!
Becuase I've never heard of anyone being injured by falling poles, and I would argue that the risk is minimal, and does not justify such a drastic measure of courdoning off. Also, if this were such a risk that it needed courdoning off, then the same would be true of extended ladders.
To put it bluntly, Andy Willis, in my opinion you are talking rubbish.
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=161090.0;all
All posters
If you would like to choose a central location to get together I will give up a day and thoroughly address this issue
No pay
No funding
My time free
if you want to give up yours,
See there was no uptake on this, that would take effort
As said elsewhere .........Why not write about it on here? We don't lose a days wages or waste fuel, you don't lose anything either.
Trevor Perry can write sensible understandable posts - can't you Andrew?
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Come on your a window cleaner. You can easily afford a day out.
I would give up a day for a Wc meet up.
Andrew set the time and place and I will be there
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Because you need to make an effort Mark etting
That post although an honest question is a little ungrateful he's offering his time to you free of charge some effort would be needed on your part he doesn't even need to offer to do this yet he has, now he has you want to do even less. A little fuel and some of your time that's all you need to give but not do nothing at all.
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Because you need to make an effort Mark etting
That post although an honest question is a little ungrateful he's offering his time to you free of charge some effort would be needed on your part he doesn't even need to offer to do this yet he has, now he has you want to do even less. A little fuel and some of your time that's all you need to give but not do nothing at all.
The point is (I can only assume you missed it) is that he, nor anyone else has to! Why can he not post answers to questions here?
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we do a 4 storey hotel and always courdon off the area last year doing some flats the gooseneck snapped
and the brush came down, which may not have killed any1 but would/could have caused a serious head injury
Then your risk assessment is missing an equipment check.
Vin
Vin what check should i have done ? - gooseneck was brand new !
i know there is some 'friction' going on with Impact & the willis family - personally never met them or done a course
i have however had to do several H&S courses thro previous career.
it appears to me that just because it's been highlighted by a certain member the subject has been pulled right out of
proportion - i see no need for cones (other than when crossong busy footpaths) or cordening off an area for normal domestic
work as a pole should never be out of control - but on a high street,busy public area working 3+ storey's then yes - even if it's
just to stop joe public walking into you.
it's interesting to see all the WFP'ers defend their practices while slate tradders being unsafe for using a ladder
Darran
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Anyone who has been on one of Andrews Impact 43 courses remembers the first sentance he says, how much is your life worth ? and as the law says so far as reasonably practicle, the price of a few cones and a few minutes a day cordoning of areas is worth it, and any judge will support it.
whats the value of you or your employees or the publics lives............. most sensible people will agree PRICELESS
idealrob
Why do people who have been on the course feel the need to defend the course and then make statements like this ?
why do you feel the need to talk about a course that you have not been on and clearly know very little about James, can you not get the funding for it is as you seem to have a Big chip on your shoulder about it. I would bet you money you would learn something new that would help you that is of course if you don't know everything already. Be interested to know the reel reason your trolling threads in it
Getting tetchy now eh Mr Washers ( is that your real name ? ) , i wonder if it has anything to do with me asking about your ' vested interest ' in these topics ?
not at all tetchy James you really don't affect mind mindset I find it rather amusing if I'm honest, just to clear it up for you my name is Ian Wicks my business is called Window Washers, if you look in my profile you would see a link to my site. I was simply asking you a question ( i guess that you may of overlooked this) could you answer that for me.
I have nothing to hide ;) if at all you bothered me I simpley would ignor your posts
I come on here to help and learn not to try to pick argument as that would make me a very sad person indeed with something missing in my life.
Now try and be nice and answer the question James
The Questions you ask, i will work through them, i hope you will address the questions you have failed to answer time and time again
why do you feel the need to talk about a course that you have not been on and clearly know very little about James,
I do not need to go on a NVQ level 1 WC'ing course, yet i can still comment on the idea of it, WC'ing is not that hard to understand
can you not get the funding for it is as you seem to have a Big chip on your shoulder about it.
I havent tried to get funding, i imagine i earn too much to get a free course,
I would bet you money you would learn something new that would help you that is of course if you don't know everything already.
I expect i would, We all learn new stuff everyday, it would not be life changing though
Be interested to know the reel reason your trolling threads in it
Trolling ? is that just because i do not agree with you ? I have a opinion that we can make our own minds up, we do not need to be spoon fed H&S rubbish when 99% of us can see its all over the top
Now my Questions, Do You have a vested interest in all of this, do you do work for Mr Willis ?
Marks Question, Do your staff cordon 25 ft around a house when they clean windows ? which would mean forcing pedestrians onto the road ?
can you answer the above ?
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All posters
If you would like to choose a central location to get together I will give up a day and thoroughly address this issue
No pay
No funding
My time free
if you want to give up yours,
See there was no uptake on this, that would take effort
LOL once again at Andy Willis and his amazing generous offer to educate us all if only we'll stop pointing out that he's talking rubbish and only out to make money from his courses!
There's no reason why you can't 'thouroughly address' this issue right here, other than that you just don't want to, as evidenced by the fact that getting an answer from you about it in the first place was like pulling teeth.
The point is (I can only assume you missed it) is that he, nor anyone else has to! Why can he not post answers to questions here?
+1
The reason Andy doesn't want to post answers on here is the same reason he kept saying "come on the course and you'll find out" and "why not give me a call rather than discuss it on here" when asked awkward questions in the past. He just doesn't want to answer them on here for the simple reason that there are plenty of us who can see right through what he's doing.
There's no discussion needed. You say that if your using poles and don't put up a courdon you're illegal. We say that you're talking rubbish and that it's so obviously not reasonably practicable that the only person who has ever suggested it is someone who has can make money from scaring people.
Its very simple really, no need to meet up to discuss. You want people to come on your course so you try to scare everyone into thinking they're working illegally even when they clearly aren't.
The fact you would even suggest that this would be reasonable just shows me (and no doubt everyone else) that you actually know jack about window cleaning with poles. Anyone with more than a couple of days experience actually window cleaning would know that it would be completely impractical.
You've simply lost all credibility by claiming that we need courdon off.
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I have been on the course and for FREE its well worth the money, if people dont feel they need to do it then dont. He is not coming on here say that we all need to do it and pay for it.
Good luck to him for doing what others dont.
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I have been on the course and for FREE its well worth the money, if people dont feel they need to do it then dont. He is not coming on here say that we all need to do it and pay for it.
Good luck to him for doing what others dont.
thats great that you enjoyed the course.
Question: Do you courdon off the area whenever you are using waterfed poles?
No?
Why would that be I wonder?
Perhaps because it's totally impractical?
Maybe also because it would be totally disproportianate to the risks involved?
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Anyone who has been on one of Andrews Impact 43 courses remembers the first sentance he says, how much is your life worth ? and as the law says so far as reasonably practicle, the price of a few cones and a few minutes a day cordoning of areas is worth it, and any judge will support it.
whats the value of you or your employees or the publics lives............. most sensible people will agree PRICELESS
idealrob
Why do people who have been on the course feel the need to defend the course and then make statements like this ?
why do you feel the need to talk about a course that you have not been on and clearly know very little about James, can you not get the funding for it is as you seem to have a Big chip on your shoulder about it. I would bet you money you would learn something new that would help you that is of course if you don't know everything already. Be interested to know the reel reason your trolling threads in it
Getting tetchy now eh Mr Washers ( is that your real name ? ) , i wonder if it has anything to do with me asking about your ' vested interest ' in these topics ?
not at all tetchy James you really don't affect mind mindset I find it rather amusing if I'm honest, just to clear it up for you my name is Ian Wicks my business is called Window Washers, if you look in my profile you would see a link to my site. I was simply asking you a question ( i guess that you may of overlooked this) could you answer that for me.
I have nothing to hide ;) if at all you bothered me I simpley would ignor your posts
I come on here to help and learn not to try to pick argument as that would make me a very sad person indeed with something missing in my life.
Now try and be nice and answer the question James
The Questions you ask, i will work through them, i hope you will address the questions you have failed to answer time and time again
why do you feel the need to talk about a course that you have not been on and clearly know very little about James,
I do not need to go on a NVQ level 1 WC'ing course, yet i can still comment on the idea of it, WC'ing is not that hard to understand
can you not get the funding for it is as you seem to have a Big chip on your shoulder about it.
I havent tried to get funding, i imagine i earn too much to get a free course,
I would bet you money you would learn something new that would help you that is of course if you don't know everything already.
I expect i would, We all learn new stuff everyday, it would not be life changing though
Be interested to know the reel reason your trolling threads in it
Trolling ? is that just because i do not agree with you ? I have a opinion that we can make our own minds up, we do not need to be spoon fed H&S rubbish when 99% of us can see its all over the top
Now my Questions, Do You have a vested interest in all of this, do you do work for Mr Willis ?
Marks Question, Do your staff cordon 25 ft around a house when they clean windows ? which would mean forcing pedestrians onto the road ?
can you answer the above ?
Washers, you might have missed this :-X
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I am sure I would learn something from taking up Andrew's "free" offer. However, I do not feel I need to take the risk and invest the time to learn that something at the present stage my business is at.
However, Andrew, you said in an early post that if a window cleaner didn't have a certificate as per PUWER 98 he would be working illegally (or the substance of that) - I have asked three times now for you to show me where that is written.
I have scanned the on-line regs, not pored over them carefully and I am simply asking you to show me. It may be I have not noticed or they are in some form I haven't found. The regs. contained useful reminders too, but ...
You put up the assertion Andrew, would you please show me where it is written?
If you cannot or will not answer that question on here why would I want to drive and meet up with you? After all, as a self employed and employing sole trader I must avoid risk where practically possible and driving perhaps over 100 miles on busy, unbarriered A roads with vehicles passing each other legally at up to 60 miles per hour has more risk than my falling off my chair while typing on-line when I get the surprise of my life and you answer my question.
;)
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Andy has yeat again renewed his advertising campaign with us which allows to put towards the costs of running, maintaining and keeping on top of this forum for you guys!
That's enough now - LOCKED.