Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: SunShineCleaning on November 08, 2012, 03:48:43 pm
-
Mentioned on another thread, can someone provide a link to one they use please.
-
What is it you are trying to do? Are you looking to measure voltage or control the pump?
-
Control the pump, someone said they used one instead of varistream.
-
Thanks, the portable pump is now built into a waterproof casing with a controller on it now, I have a more detailed tour of the van on my youtube, Yer with a small van you are limited for space and have to make the most of it.
Glad that's it given u some ideas and helps your working time easier!
Stay away from any type of flow controller. If you don't already use one, all you need is a £10 voltage regulator from maplins. It weighs nothing, is small, easy to fit and simple to use and does the job perfectly. If it packs up, you disconnect the two wires and join them together and carry on working plus all it has cost you is a tenner.
Like this
-
you don't want a voltage regulator, you want a speed controller.
-
The Switch available from Maplins is an AC switch as such designed for 240V. The high rating could cause cables to overheat and with out a fuse burn out. If you are looking at controlling the pump you would be better off with designed for purpose controller. As well as digital versions there are also analogue controllers both will regulate the speed of the pump and reduce the current draw from the battery
-
and control the pressure ;)
-
Try this. (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=12v%2030a%20speed%20controller&_sop=15)
-
The Switch available from Maplins is an AC switch as such designed for 240V. The high rating could cause cables to overheat and with out a fuse burn out. If you are looking at controlling the pump you would be better off with designed for purpose controller. As well as digital versions there are also analogue controllers both will regulate the speed of the pump and reduce the current draw from the battery
I've been using it for 18 months with absolutely no problems at all. The cable I use is rated for 240V 13 amps anyway so it won't overheat /catch fire/etc. I'm also sure it wasn't for AC but to be honest, I can't really remember, but I do remember looking at the ratings of the various regulators and picking one that was suitable.
Unfortunately, I can't find it on the maplins website so I can't post a link.
-
Try this. (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=12v%2030a%20speed%20controller&_sop=15)
Just seen that posting above. What I bought was one of the ones in the silver boxes but which one? Dunno? They've also gone up in price as they were all between about £8 and £15.
-
Each to their own. You have a switch and cable rated for 13 amps and a pump rated at 7amps. If the current draw spikes for some reason, you are going to have problems with the pump.
A controller properly rated for a DC system is going to protect far better than a 240V AC switch
-
Each to their own. You have a switch and cable rated for 13 amps and a pump rated at 7amps. If the current draw spikes for some reason, you are going to have problems with the pump.
A controller properly rated for a DC system is going to protect far better than a 240V AC switch
The one I have, as I've just gone and had a look, is for motors rated up to 24 amps and voltages between 10 and 24 volts DC. It is not an 240V AC switch.
Also, the ones listed on the link are for DC and not for AC and are for 12V not 240V.
-
Could you take a photo for us?
-
Could you take a photo for us?
I assume you mean of my 12V voltage regulator for a DC motor that can be bought from maplins who also provide all the specs.
I don't see what that would achieve other than to show I actually have one and use it. If that's the case, then just say so.
If I'm wrong, then the answer is no because all I'd be taking is a picture of is something that looks like one of the voltage regulators in the maplins link.
A 12V voltage regulator for a pump motor is hardly rocket science. It's not state of the arts electronics and it's hardly cutting edge stuff that requires a degree in electronics.
-
Oops. Der........ :-[
I've just realised the link was for ebay, not maplins. I didn't look at the top of the page just the pictures and the specs and I assumed it was a link for maplins.
Maplins sell the same type of stuff.
-
Thanks for your reply Rosskesava. I hope it didn't sound like I was doubting you as I wasn't. I just wanted to check I was looking at the same as you have. If it works for you and others I cant see how it would not work for me.
I have seen both voltage regulators and speed restrictors for 12v motors and will be visiting Maplins today and fancy trying one out. As long as the pressure switch is still on the pump I assume it will work.
-
Thanks for your reply Rosskesava. I hope it didn't sound like I was doubting you as I wasn't. I just wanted to check I was looking at the same as you have. If it works for you and others I cant see how it would not work for me.
I have seen both voltage regulators and speed restrictors for 12v motors and will be visiting Maplins today and fancy trying one out. As long as the pressure switch is still on the pump I assume it will work.
Sorry, my mistake, I should have asked why you wanted a picture and yup, the pressure switch will still work.
-
Hi sunshine cleanining, is this what you mean?
I used one on the older wcw backpack worked well on there as a flow regulator, act like a dimmer light switch by +/- power from battery.
Don't know who it would preform on more powerful amp-ige
battery on bkpack was 12v 9amps.
hope this helps Lee.
http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/17107-regulator-module-6-15v-dc-919d2p-mfa.html
-
I wonder why the varistream costs so much if the regulator is less than £20?
-
oopps just see 3amps limit :(
Maybe they have something else.
or
http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/1-2-inch-push-fit-in-line-valve.html
something like this near brush head would slow water flow (right size?)
They do hozlelock fitting with tap.
Sorry if i'm barking up the wrong tree :D
Lee
-
I wonder why the varistream costs so much if the regulator is less than £20?
Because this and other flow controllers also incorporate dead ending control (pressure switch) where these don't.
These are also mass produced, where the Varistream is produced for a specific market in much lower numbers. But on top of your imported controller, you need to add the cost of a moisture resistant box to keep your components dry.
If you are using a controller just to reduce motor speed, hence flow rate, then this has to be connected through the pump's mechanical pressure switch.
The idea of the Varistream was to replace the pump's pressure switch and incorporate it in with the electronics.
We have never had to replace a Varistream in 7 years of using them and have been generally very reliable, so they have well paid for themselves as far as we are concerned.
-
I personally think the old method of using the pressure switch works better. No messing about calibrating, no adjusting the cal in cold weather,... its simple & it works!
A lot of the regulators mentioned in this thread previously aren't up to the job - the maplins one is only 3A, and the others don't have reverse polarity protection. This is one that I've used loads of & never had problems with:
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/12V-40V-10A-Pulse-Width-Modulation-PWM-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-Switch-Governor-UK-/290736054991?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item43b13822cf
You need to put it in a waterproof enclosure, add a cable gland etc, but it does the job.
-
I wonder why the varistream costs so much if the regulator is less than £20?
Because this and other flow controllers also incorporate dead ending control (pressure switch) where these don't.
These are also mass produced, where the Varistream is produced for a specific market in much lower numbers. But on top of your imported controller, you need to add the cost of a moisture resistant box to keep your components dry.
If you are using a controller just to reduce motor speed, hence flow rate, then this has to be connected through the pump's mechanical pressure switch.
The idea of the Varistream was to replace the pump's pressure switch and incorporate it in with the electronics.
We have never had to replace a Varistream in 7 years of using them and have been generally very reliable, so they have well paid for themselves as far as we are concerned.
It comes down to what you want from your system.
As spruce points out the controller does monitor DE water flow stopped and allows the system to operate more efficiently at lower pressure.
This lower pressure puts less strain on the connectors - hose - pump. With a pump running at a lower speed you also reduce the wear and tear on the pump motor and brushes. The slower the pump the less current you use and the longer your battery will last between charges.
We add a voltmeter - allowing you to monitor battery state and to help fault find
A Low battery cut off to extend the battery life
The new control has a low battery over ride to allow you to keep working and finish the days work
Relying only on the pressure switch works for some, bear in mind why controllers came about n the 1st place
1. In running the pump until it hits the pressure switch you are running the pump as hard as it can possibly work. This means that the pressure in the system will be at its absolute maximum. This puts strain on the hoses, on the fittings and on the pump. It therefore increases the chances of split hoses, leaking joints and increases wear on your pump, shortening its life.
2. As the pressure switch cuts out the pump is at maximum, working as hard as it possibly can and therefore drawing maximum current from the battery. Hence as the switch opens it is under great strain. The high current and the fact that the pump is an inductive load (with stored energy) means that the pressure switch contacts are likely to arc and eventually they will fail.
In Short after 7 years continuous development the controller does far more than just control the pump speed.
We produce 1000,s of controls every year ranging from the Analogue - Hot water Charging + others through to the Liquid logic V series and the Specialist 24V DC display panel manufactured for a dutch company.
In The end you have to do what is right for you
-
Another point that Nat didn't mention is that he has reduced the pump pressure switch setting from 100psi to around 65psi and then set up his controller to suit.
-
Another point that Nat didn't mention is that he has reduced the pump pressure switch setting from 100psi to around 65psi and then set up his controller to suit.
True - 60psi is more than you'll ever need as 1psi will pump water 2' vertically, so my sureflow 100psi pump is dialled down to its minimum (approx 65psi) its easy to do this using a using a small alan key. My pump is now 5 years old & still going strong, which I attribute mainly to the reduced strain its under.
-
Have I mentioned in this post that it's been my experience that flow controllers are a waste of time, effort and money?
My suggestion is - if you already use one - wait till it conks out (I've had two different ones conk out within 18 months), or buggers you about till you want to hit it with a hammer, and then work without one. Just connect the pressure switch back up and add a simple on/off switch; it takes about 10 minutes and even a Geordie can do it.
My battery and pumps work just fine this way; I love the fast flow 'cos it allows us to work fast.
KISS
(Keep it Simple Stupid)
-
Relying only on the pressure switch works for some, bear in mind why controllers came about n the 1st place
I've read on this forum that flow controllers came about when window cleaners were using garden hose; this caused their pumps to cycle repeatedly; burning out their pump pressure switches.
But with mini and microbore hose, this doesn't happen any more and not only that pressure switches cost pennies from Maplins.
Can I ask why you think controllers came about?
-
I have just fit this to a backpack pump and it works perfectly as a speed controller.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/motor-speed-regulation-unit-9312
-
Relying only on the pressure switch works for some, bear in mind why controllers came about n the 1st place
I've read on this forum that flow controllers came about when window cleaners were using garden hose; this caused their pumps to cycle repeatedly; burning out their pump pressure switches.
But with mini and microbore hose, this doesn't happen any more and not only that pressure switches cost pennies from Maplins.
Can I ask why you think controllers came about?
Tosh
This is a revelation. If it happens with 1/2" hose, why doesn't it happen with mini or microbore?
-
Relying only on the pressure switch works for some, bear in mind why controllers came about n the 1st place
I've read on this forum that flow controllers came about when window cleaners were using garden hose; this caused their pumps to cycle repeatedly; burning out their pump pressure switches.
But with mini and microbore hose, this doesn't happen any more and not only that pressure switches cost pennies from Maplins.
Can I ask why you think controllers came about?
Tosh
This is a revelation. If it happens with 1/2" hose, why doesn't it happen with mini or microbore?
I dunno. As I said, "I've read on this forum that flow controllers came about when window cleaners were using garden hose".
My pump doesn't cycle and I use microbore hose.
If I'm wrong, which I could well be (wouldn't be the first time, nor the last), why did flow controllers come into being? A fast flow = fast work. A flow controller = being buggered about.
-
I had a regular hose when I started and it didn't cycle. I used a bypass as it used too much water then flow controller to slow the flow. When did this cycling stuff start Tosh?
-
If you do a search of "cycling" in the window cleaning related topics there's a lot of posts there about it:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/cycling.jpg)
-
Blimey. I didn't realise that for nearly 20 months I'd been wasting my time using something like a voltage regulator with no problems what so ever at all and in any way that cost about a tenner. It's also strange that the pump is still working. I guess I must be one of the lucky ones.
Strange also that if I turn the voltage down, the battery last longer.
Perhaps I'd better throw it away and spend maybe £150 or more.
Sorry to sound sarcastic but that's the bottom line.
I can add a volt meter for less than a tenner also and I've had no battery problems either.
What actually bugs me is having something complex and expensive to do a very simple job.
For some people and industries, more complex systems may be needed but to pump water out of a brush on a long stick to clean windows?
-
Most controllers are around the £80 mark. I think the idea of a controller is to give the same pressure and flow at all pole heights and hose lengths. Does a voltage regulator do this without adjustment?
-
Most controllers are around the £80 mark. I think the idea of a controller is to give the same pressure and flow at all pole heights and hose lengths. Does a voltage regulator do this without adjustment?
No it doesn't - - but in a real life situation, do any of the pro flow controllers do this either without re-calibrating every time the weather changes? I use a DIY flow controller that I built myself & I can honestly say I've never noticed the flow slowing down when I do high windows - perhaps it used to be a problem years ago when ppl used weak pumps, but anything rated to 100psi shouldn't slow its flow rate when only 30psi of pressure is needed to pump 60' up a pole.
I believe the tech they use (a hal sensor I think) is actually a very accurate way to monitor & control liquid flow in larger volumes,.. but at the low flow rates we use it simply isn't up to the job.
-
Most controllers are around the £80 mark. I think the idea of a controller is to give the same pressure and flow at all pole heights and hose lengths. Does a voltage regulator do this without adjustment?
Yup. £80 - my mistake.
The hose length is the same all the time if it's on a hose real.
As above, I've never noticed any difference in flow rate regardless of the height although logic says there must be some difference but it's not noticeable. The voltage regulator doesn't adjust or alter anything by itself.
I didn't mention this before but I use two voltage regulators and a two channel remote. One regulator is set to full and the other about halfway. Then by using the remote remote I can change from full flow to half flow without moving from the spot, i.e. while actually cleaning the windows, (try doing that with a flow controller) which is handy for some jobs and first cleans. Plus of course I can if I want alter the voltage regulator to anything I want if needs be.