Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 08:42:19 am

Title: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 08:42:19 am
Tried email this to you guys privately but emails are hidden. Hope this answers the questions you were previously were asking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVTCSaDhwSo
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: wfp master on November 06, 2012, 03:11:31 pm
cheers for that. fair enough time you add angle adapter & brush its about right.
someone said the 18 fibre glass pole was under 17ft is this correct.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 04:17:16 pm
No, same length as what you see in the video. Applies to each material - glass, composite and carbon.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: richard jagger on November 06, 2012, 04:43:34 pm
Since when do you add the positive stops into the length. Please guys we are not fools even if the image of a window cleaner is a dumb bum.This hole is getting deeper,

I have a 40  foot Harris Pole look measure on the top  1 2 .................... 40 foot to the end cap .But what about 3 tooooo 39 no that`s the  place for extensions. Crap. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: roundbuilder on November 06, 2012, 04:46:28 pm
Top video there and looks a top make of pole. How much are the 26 ft's including vat mate??.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: wfp master on November 06, 2012, 05:24:59 pm
No, same length as what you see in the video. Applies to each material - glass, composite and carbon.
are you doing a 26ft hybrid.?
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: David Kent @ KentKleen on November 06, 2012, 06:07:38 pm
Thank you answers my question very well.
Tip though.
Instead of using the tape measure just lay 'beefcake' down, he is quite a size. Would only need a 18 ft for all my work.  ;D

Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: ben M on November 06, 2012, 06:18:08 pm
Mr Fox,do you sell carbon gooseneck to fit the phoenix 26? if not,can i use the carbon gooseneck from gardiner? thanks
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Mike #1 on November 06, 2012, 06:31:47 pm
Since when do you add the positive stops into the length. Please guys we are not fools even if the image of a window cleaner is a dumb bum.This hole is getting deeper,

I have a 40  foot Harris Pole look measure on the top  1 2 .................... 40 foot to the end cap .But what about 3 tooooo 39 no that`s the  place for extensions. Crap. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



Slumpy Dog , They are not positive stops it is band marker which looking at end of video when measuring 18ft which is a stripped down pole the band is 6" in total , So with the 2 finger rule that would add an extra 1" on each section which would add a extra 5" to the overall measurment .

But if i am right the occasional use top section was not included . Mike
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Mike #1 on November 06, 2012, 06:35:50 pm
Mr Fox,do you sell carbon gooseneck to fit the phoenix 26? if not,can i use the carbon gooseneck from gardiner? thanks

Ben www.aquadapter.co.uk   sell a carbon gooseneck adapter which will allow you to attach a gardiners carbon gooseneck £14:99 with vat . Mike
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: keyser soze on November 06, 2012, 06:57:45 pm
looks good pole .it makes me laugh about the stick you guys are recieving . when i first started i bought a ionics 32 ft pole and to my amazement its nowhere near that length .love it or hate it this pole is going to sell . itll take some time to gain the reputation of the gardiner range though
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 08:13:03 pm
Since when do you add the positive stops into the length. Please guys we are not fools even if the image of a window cleaner is a dumb bum.This hole is getting deeper,

I have a 40  foot Harris Pole look measure on the top  1 2 .................... 40 foot to the end cap .But what about 3 tooooo 39 no that`s the  place for extensions. Crap. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



Slumpy, there are no positive stops on the Phoenix that's kind of the whole point of the coloured band. We've  incorporated user going past the band in day to day use, hence a generous overlap which will give you the length of pole as in the video. We certainly do not take people for 'fools' we've thought about real world situations and tried to accommodate it as best we can. But if your loving the Harris then stick to it by all means  ;D
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: JackieW on November 06, 2012, 08:19:13 pm
Hi Slumpy Dog,

 I'd be interested in getting a 40 foot (12.9 meters) Harris too.
 Any suggestions how to get one as it may come in handy for odd windows.
Thanks
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 08:20:16 pm
Since when do you add the positive stops into the length. Please guys we are not fools even if the image of a window cleaner is a dumb bum.This hole is getting deeper,

I have a 40  foot Harris Pole look measure on the top  1 2 .................... 40 foot to the end cap .But what about 3 tooooo 39 no that`s the  place for extensions. Crap. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



Slumpy Dog , They are not positive stops it is band marker which looking at end of video when measuring 18ft which is a stripped down pole the band is 6" in total , So with the 2 finger rule that would add an extra 1" on each section which would add a extra 5" to the overall measurment .

But if i am right the occasional use top section was not included . Mike

Mike, thanks for this post, spot on. I think you get the whole idea with Phoenix and your post explains it as it is. No top section included with the 18ft but can be added if needed. The whole idea with the UL extension is to give the user an extra few feet if needed but without carrying unnecessary extra weight, it's a new concept and not been done before, so a little risky from a manufacturers point of view. We hope that the discerning window cleaner grasps the idea and it helps them in their day to day work.

Of course we are also prepared to get flamed for it!
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 08:24:44 pm
Mr Fox,do you sell carbon gooseneck to fit the phoenix 26? if not,can i use the carbon gooseneck from gardiner? thanks

Ben, not yet but we have a cracker in the pipeline. You can use a gardiners pole with the Phoenix but you would lose the top two sections of pole. We can provide a modified Phoenix for this if needed. Drop me an email and I can shed more light on it.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: ben M on November 06, 2012, 08:34:33 pm
Mr Fox,do you sell carbon gooseneck to fit the phoenix 26? if not,can i use the carbon gooseneck from gardiner? thanks

Ben, not yet but we have a cracker in the pipeline. You can use a gardiners pole with the Phoenix but you would lose the top two sections of pole. We can provide a modified Phoenix for this if needed. Drop me an email and I can shed more light on it.
Thanks Stephen, no rush anyway, i can wait until you have a facelift carbon gooseneck! I think you do very well on this forum and when i need to replace my slx25 (in 2-3 months) i will probably buy a phoenix 26.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 08:35:17 pm
No, same length as what you see in the video. Applies to each material - glass, composite and carbon.
are you doing a 26ft hybrid.?

Looks like we will be, our composite range is very light in comparison to what is out there so we are currently testing different models. Are you looking to be a tester for it?
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 08:39:49 pm
Mr Fox,do you sell carbon gooseneck to fit the phoenix 26? if not,can i use the carbon gooseneck from gardiner? thanks

Ben, not yet but we have a cracker in the pipeline. You can use a gardiners pole with the Phoenix but you would lose the top two sections of pole. We can provide a modified Phoenix for this if needed. Drop me an email and I can shed more light on it.
Thanks Stephen, no rush anyway, i can wait until you have a facelift carbon gooseneck! I think you do very well on this forum and when i need to replace my slx25 (in 2-3 months) i will probably buy a phoenix 26.

Ben, no problem. Would be happy to send you out a prototype gooseneck for feedback when your ready. We want as much real world experience as possible on up and coming products, all feedback/criticism/comments are welcome.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Dave Willis on November 06, 2012, 08:41:51 pm
I'm still lost  ???
So all the poles in the range are close to the stated length without the extension? Then you purchase the extension for extra reach?



or


They come with the extension and this is included in the specified length?
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: P @ F on November 06, 2012, 08:45:33 pm
Im not getting the 2 finger rule , sounds like a get out clause to me  ;D

Rich   
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Dave Willis on November 06, 2012, 08:49:08 pm
and ....... the checkered carbon finish isn't part of the pole make up but is added to look pretty (bit like they do with carbon bike frames) ?
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 08:52:50 pm
I'm still lost  ???
So all the poles in the range are close to the stated length without the extension? Then you purchase the extension for extra reach?



or


They come with the extension and this is included in the specified length?

Mark, yes the pole lengths are as stated (within the parameters of what has been discussed in detail over the last few days!) So you get hold of a 22 and it'll be pretty much 22ft pole in use.

The only pole, currently, with the extension is the Phoenix X 26UL. The extension is to add an extra few feet to your pole while minimizing the weight as much as possible. The pole is very short when closed (currently the shortest closed length and longest extended pole in the world) but gives you a lot of extra height when you need it.

Hope this explains what we are trying to do, if not let me know as I can try and make it more succinct.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: P @ F on November 06, 2012, 08:59:12 pm
So the phoeonix 26 is not a 26 without the use of the extension and the 2 finger rule , have i got that right ?

Rich
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Dave Willis on November 06, 2012, 09:00:04 pm
getting there  :) so..... If I bought the 26 ul would it be close to 26 without the extension or does the extension take it to 26 (ish)
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 09:01:30 pm
Im not getting the 2 finger rule , sounds like a get out clause to me  ;D

Rich   

Rich, not at all. What are we trying to get out of?

We understand that users of the pole will want to take it as far as possible if they need the full length on a job, we have no control over that. As previously commented on, we know that in day to day use you will over shoot the band, so we have added extra to it to accommodate users doing so. It's that simple.

Obviously if you don't need the full height of the pole keep it below the band, otherwise if you need to take it further you can. This is one of the advantages you can't do with a positive stop pole.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: P @ F on November 06, 2012, 09:07:06 pm
Is it safe to do this though , as i never go over the previous red band as stated on every clamp , you could have saved a few grams on my 42 otherwise !  ;D

Rich 
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Dani J on November 06, 2012, 09:13:10 pm
Im not getting the 2 finger rule , sounds like a get out clause to me  ;D

Rich   

Rich, not at all. What are we trying to get out of?

We understand that users of the pole will want to take it as far as possible if they need the full length on a job, we have no control over that. As previously commented on, we know that in day to day use you will over shoot the band, so we have added extra to it to accommodate users doing so. It's that simple.

Obviously if you don't need the full height of the pole keep it below the band, otherwise if you need to take it further you can. This is one of the advantages you can't do with a positive stop pole.

Excellent idea, i have been using this idea for the past year  ;) , as my slx 18ft stop was worn out, i just painted section of the pole like this Phoenix so i knew how far to extend it.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 09:15:31 pm
So the phoeonix 26 is not a 26 without the use of the extension and the 2 finger rule , have i got that right ?

Rich

P @ F, have you seen the video? It pretty much shows the Phoenix 26UL as it is. As there are no positive stops it makes the extended pole length a little tricky to record, that's why we have incorporate the 'two finger' rule as a guide line. You can be assured though, it is longer than any other pole advertised at that height, while still having a extremely short closed pole length.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: wightsurf on November 06, 2012, 09:17:28 pm
@ Stephen Fox

So what are you doing in the brush range,theres a need for these just as much as the poles.They need to be lighter than what you sold me (not a dig) .Im sure the bloke taking the order said something .
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 09:28:51 pm
Is it safe to do this though , as i never go over the previous red band as stated on every clamp , you could have saved a few grams on my 42 otherwise !  ;D

Rich 

Rich, we could of taken at least an inch or so from the band -  there is a lot smaller overlap in other manufacturers poles. The reason we didn't is simply that we know how the poles are used in real working conditions. While using them day in day out if you over shoot the band, who cares! there is room for maneuver. If locked off, as in a positive stop, you cant go any further.

With the Phoenix should you need a few extra inches on a job, you've got it. Obviously, if you can stay within the band, better for it, but it's there when you need it.

We have really thought about the user with this pole, and tried to give them every tool they need on the job that was otherwise lacking. That's why we've introduced the UL extension, anti pinch clamps, non catching levers, etc ,etc to push WFP development further. We may not have it 100% but are willing to be advised by you guys and develop the best tools for the job.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 09:34:10 pm
@ Stephen Fox

So what are you doing in the brush range,theres a need for these just as much as the poles.They need to be lighter than what you sold me (not a dig) .Im sure the bloke taking the order said something .

Mart, we have a very innovation idea to put out there. You up for testing?

side note - you should get your UL testers in a day or two, let me know how you get on.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: wightsurf on November 06, 2012, 09:38:11 pm
@ Stephen Fox

So what are you doing in the brush range,theres a need for these just as much as the poles.They need to be lighter than what you sold me (not a dig) .Im sure the bloke taking the order said something .

Mart, we have a very innovation idea to put out there. You up for testing?

side note - you should get your UL testers in a day or two, let me know how you get on.

Sounds interesting,Sure let me know when its ready.Look forward to trying the ul.
My friend has just got the 26ul ,so will be having a look at the weekend.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 09:47:29 pm
@ Stephen Fox

So what are you doing in the brush range,theres a need for these just as much as the poles.They need to be lighter than what you sold me (not a dig) .Im sure the bloke taking the order said something .

Mart, we have a very innovation idea to put out there. You up for testing?

side note - you should get your UL testers in a day or two, let me know how you get on.

Sounds interesting,Sure let me know when its ready.Look forward to trying the ul.
My friend has just got the 26ul ,so will be having a look at the weekend.

Great stuff, let me know your thoughts.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: DG Cleaning on November 06, 2012, 09:50:56 pm
I've had a look at your pole range and it's almost identical in price to Gardiners, many people have a certain brand loyalty especially where Gardiners are concerned due to their great products and fantastic customer service. People buying your products are taking a bit of a punt so to speak because of your lack of track record. Dont you think it would be wise to come in at a lower price? I'm looking to get a longer pole than my trusty Harris soon, I'm fairly new to wfp so I'm sure I'll be impressed by both Facelift & Gardiners, however I'm going to have to live with this pole for a fair while so if there's nothing in it then I'm going for Gardiners, £50 plus cheaper I'd seriously have to look at Facelift.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 09:56:39 pm
I've had a look at your pole range and it's almost identical in price to Gardiners, many people have a certain brand loyalty especially where Gardiners are concerned due to their great products and fantastic customer service. People buying your products are taking a bit of a punt so to speak because of your lack of track record. Dont you think it would be wise to come in at a lower price? I'm looking to get a longer pole than my trusty Harris soon, I'm fairly new to wfp so I'm sure I'll be impressed by both Facelift & Gardiners, however I'm going to have to live with this pole for a fair while so if there's nothing in it then I'm going for Gardiners, £50 plus cheaper I'd seriously have to look at Facelift.

DG, in all honesty Facelift have a longer track record than Gardiners. In fact Gardiners use to sell Facelift poles at one point! So if your whole basis for ordering a pole is on how long they've been around, Facelift wins hands down! Let me know what pole you are looking for...........
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: P @ F on November 06, 2012, 10:01:22 pm
Fair play , glad you said that , as i am in both major camps at the moment , i mainly run a clx27 and your facelift 42 , they are both serving me very well at the mo , i have had the clx for nearly 9 months and it has not worn at all , on the other hand i have had your 42 for 6 years and it is outstanding in longevity . it has made me far far more wonga than what i paid for it , that being said i am a sole trader who looks after his gear ,
I would like to think that i could have the option to maybe try your wares also , its an open market , i did try my brothers 47 supermax on one of my jobs that i got your 42 for and it was much easier , that being said , i did get your pole 5 years prior !
As long as you give the service that Alex provides then you can have your take , state the real pole lenghts , and dont let a couple of gypos measure it in a car park !!!!!

(Just kiddin guys)

Rich    
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 10:08:18 pm
Fair play , glad you said that , as i am in both major camps at the moment , i mainly run a clx27 and your facelift 42 , they are both serving me very well at the mo , i have had the clx for nearly 9 months and it has not worn at all , on the other hand i have had your 42 for 6 years and it is outstanding in longevity . it has made me far far more wonga than what i paid for it , that being said i am a sole trader who looks after his gear ,
I would like to think that i could have the option to maybe try your wares also , its an open market , i did try my brothers 47 supermax on one of my jobs that i got your 42 for and it was much easier , that being said , i did get your pole 5 years prior !
As long as you give the service that Alex provides then you can have your take , state the real pole lenghts , and dont let a couple of gypos measure it in a car park !!!!!

(Just kiddin guys)

Rich    

Haha!  ;D Keeping it real, carparks an all! Ha!

In all seriousness Alex as really set the bar, we realise that.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: DG Cleaning on November 06, 2012, 10:13:09 pm
I'm not just talking about your longevity but your pole is called Pheonix because it's rising from the ashes, is it not? Either way your company doesn't enjoy the reputation that Gardiners does. I dont have any first hand knowledge of either company but I read this forum and nobody really goes over the top about how great Facelift is. They may in future, only time will tell I hope you do really well but I can't see why I'd go Facelift at the moment.








Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Stephen Fox on November 06, 2012, 10:40:12 pm
I'm not just talking about your longevity but your pole is called Pheonix because it's rising from the ashes, is it not? Either way your company doesn't enjoy the reputation that Gardiners does. I dont have any first hand knowledge of either company but I read this forum and nobody really goes over the top about how great Facelift is. They may in future, only time will tell I hope you do really well but I can't see why I'd go Facelift at the moment.

DG, I fully understand what you are saying and would react the same in your shoes. We offer a very different product to Gardiners which technically does the same thing - think of it as comparable to the PC/Mac situation. Gardiners have lateral, positive stop poles, Facelift have vertical/ nonstop poles - both will do the same job but in a slightly different way.

It's up to you to evaluate which product will suit you best in the long run, both have their own advantages and disadvantages.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: ben M on November 06, 2012, 10:42:20 pm
how much is a phoenix 26 with an extra section please ( to make a 30?)
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: wfp master on November 06, 2012, 10:49:39 pm
No, same length as what you see in the video. Applies to each material - glass, composite and carbon.
are you doing a 26ft hybrid.?

Looks like we will be, our composite range is very light in comparison to what is out there so we are currently testing different models. Are you looking to be a tester for it?
I'am no expert on poles but i would be interested in the 26ft hybrid at the right price of course  ;D
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: James Leet on November 06, 2012, 11:33:47 pm
I've had a look at your pole range and it's almost identical in price to Gardiners, many people have a certain brand loyalty especially where Gardiners are concerned due to their great products and fantastic customer service. People buying your products are taking a bit of a punt so to speak because of your lack of track record. Dont you think it would be wise to come in at a lower price? I'm looking to get a longer pole than my trusty Harris soon, I'm fairly new to wfp so I'm sure I'll be impressed by both Facelift & Gardiners, however I'm going to have to live with this pole for a fair while so if there's nothing in it then I'm going for Gardiners, £50 plus cheaper I'd seriously have to look at Facelift.

DG, in all honesty Facelift have a longer track record than Gardiners. In fact Gardiners use to sell Facelift poles at one point! So if your whole basis for ordering a pole is on how long they've been around, Facelift wins hands down! Let me know what pole you are looking for...........

Seriously ?

I cannot believe you have wrote that  ;D

Now back to the real world, Alex has set the benchmark, you have been on here ( as Foxy ) treating people like idiots

Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Mike #1 on November 07, 2012, 06:26:17 am
I'm not just talking about your longevity but your pole is called Pheonix because it's rising from the ashes, is it not? Either way your company doesn't enjoy the reputation that Gardiners does. I dont have any first hand knowledge of either company but I read this forum and nobody really goes over the top about how great Facelift is. They may in future, only time will tell I hope you do really well but I can't see why I'd go Facelift at the moment.











DG nobody on this forum goes on about xtel poles but plenty of people use them and have for years and they are a decent pole if a bit over priced .

I have an Elite carbon pole which nobody mentions on here apart from me i have been WFP for over 4 yrs now and have had my Elite 18 months with no probs at all it is wearing a bit now and will look to repalce in the new year with either a Carbon  Phoenix 26 or an SLX 25 but might consider a hybrid pole depends on weight .

So stephen if you are looking for someone to trial a pole with extension i am more than happy to as i will be replacing my Elite in the next 2 months  ;D ;D. Mike
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: DG Cleaning on November 07, 2012, 09:59:12 am
M&M what I'm on about is Facelift taking on the market leader. It seems to me the poles are similar in spec, clamps differ a bit so all in all not a great deal of difference. So the most obvious way of gaining custom is to beat the competition on price. Stephen didn't refer to this in his reply so the conclusion I'm drawing is that Gardiners have got their pricing right on the nail which is another feather in their cap.
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: wfp master on November 07, 2012, 03:45:29 pm
I'm not just talking about your longevity but your pole is called Pheonix because it's rising from the ashes, is it not? Either way your company doesn't enjoy the reputation that Gardiners does. I dont have any first hand knowledge of either company but I read this forum and nobody really goes over the top about how great Facelift is. They may in future, only time will tell I hope you do really well but I can't see why I'd go Facelift at the moment.











DG nobody on this forum goes on about xtel poles but plenty of people use them and have for years and they are a decent pole if a bit over priced .

I have an Elite carbon pole which nobody mentions on here apart from me i have been WFP for over 4 yrs now and have had my Elite 18 months with no probs at all it is wearing a bit now and will look to repalce in the new year with either a Carbon  Phoenix 26 or an SLX 25 but might consider a hybrid pole depends on weight .

So stephen if you are looking for someone to trial a pole with extension i am more than happy to as i will be replacing my Elite in the next 2 months  ;D ;D. Mike
theres a queue & iam first in it  :)
Title: Re: For KentKleen and sfwc
Post by: Mike #1 on November 07, 2012, 05:41:46 pm
M&M what I'm on about is Facelift taking on the market leader. It seems to me the poles are similar in spec, clamps differ a bit so all in all not a great deal of difference. So the most obvious way of gaining custom is to beat the competition on price. Stephen didn't refer to this in his reply so the conclusion I'm drawing is that Gardiners have got their pricing right on the nail which is another feather in their cap.

Point taken mate  ;D ;D . Mike