Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mike @ Facelift on November 05, 2012, 12:39:59 pm
-
I have been fairly quiet but after some reflection I would like to add my thoughts...
The Bottom Line.... Product and Service
I find myself in a unique position in this industry, I’ve worked for a couple of different suppliers, worked with wc distributors in over 15 countries, provided wc equipment to window cleaners in over 30 countries.... I have been lucky enough to meet people, like you on here, who are generous enough to share their time and tell me what's important to them as a window cleaner, contract manager, director, business owner, distributor, general manager, supervisor or whatever title they happened to be and all these people helped focus me on what is important... Product and Service.
After all said and done, we could argue all year about what pole is the “best”, longest, lightest, most durable then people can speculate what things are made from, how long they will last, who has added inches here and shaved grams off their specs etc.... I believe this is clouding everyone’s focus...
Product and Service...
Every single pole in the industry can clean windows, does every pole suit you? That’s your choice.
Every single supplier in the industry can deliver when paid, do they all suit you?
That’s your choice.
Me, personally?
I believe the Phoenix is a good pole, Steve does too and Alex probably thinks’ its not bad either!
I have faith the office will perform the finest customer service every time, Steve does too and I believe our customers will, in time, have faith in our service too.
No song, no dance just a good product with good service...
I thank every single person who has taken the time to view or post on this debate... your enthusiasm is contagious.
-
"I believe this is clouding everyone`s focus" ;D,
Reminds me of that saying "Don`t let the the facts ruin a good story"
Bring back Boshravie,all is forgiven!
-
Quite the opposite....The facts have all been laid out by Stephen...
My point is, its an overall customer experience which is what I would rather be judged on...
-
Quite the opposite....The facts have all been laid out by Stephen...
My point is, its an overall customer experience which is what I would rather be judged on...
Mike, would you like to send me a pole to try out (keep) and approve, in a bid to build up any lost confidence with other members, you will also free me from my brodex. Now that would be a customer experience. :D
What you think?
-
After reading basically every "handbags r us" thread on here on this topic, I think your (Mike's) replies have been excellent and just what I would expect from a professional company.
Mr. Fox's comments on the other hand has severely undermined my high thoughts that I had of the window cleaning warehouse, which is a real shame, I wouldn't say I purchased much there lately, but have done so in the past. His replies were of a certain tone that has disappointed me, especially since there were quite a few jabs towards a certain other well respected supplier. It really reminded me of another supplier that used to post on here. His later posts were of higher quality, but it's not easy rectifying the damage done by replies done in the heat of a moment. Maybe I read things the wrong way, but that's how it came over to me. :)
But there we are, I don't think I'd ever buy a pole from Facelift, not because I think they are bad poles or a bad business, just because my next pole will be an Xtreme, and because it's from Gardiner's. The bar that they've set in their business is almost unattainable for other suppliers, both in products and service.
I hope your poles will sell well, and congrats on advancing in the market in financially difficult times. I think people also need to be reminded of the fact that before the first SL-X was out, way back in the day, the then Facelift range was really top notch.
-
After reading basically every "handbags r us" thread on here on this topic, I think your (Mike's) replies have been excellent and just what I would expect from a professional company.
Mr. Fox's comments on the other hand has severely undermined my high thoughts that I had of the window cleaning warehouse, which is a real shame, I wouldn't say I purchased much there lately, but have done so in the past. His replies were of a certain tone that has disappointed me, especially since there were quite a few jabs towards a certain other well respected supplier. It really reminded me of another supplier that used to post on here. His later posts were of higher quality, but it's not easy rectifying the damage done by replies done in the heat of a moment. Maybe I read things the wrong way, but that's how it came over to me. :)
But there we are, I don't think I'd ever buy a pole from Facelift, not because I think they are bad poles or a bad business, just because my next pole will be an Xtreme, and because it's from Gardiner's. The bar that they've set in their business is almost unattainable for other suppliers, both in products and service.
I hope your poles will sell well, and congrats on advancing in the market in financially difficult times. I think people also need to be reminded of the fact that before the first SL-X was out, way back in the day, the then Facelift range was really top notch.
Very well said :)
I only use Gardiners for my poles and brushes and probably always will for the simple reason that i think their products and service is superb so why would i want to change......
As the only saying goes "If it aint broke dont fix it".
-
GQC
I think we need to address the balance here
I beg to differ in the customer service statement you made, as much as I like Alex and his staff, and I love his poles
I think the customer service that wcw offer is slightly better.
Alex's service is very good and his poles are brill, but his stock (other than key wfp supplies) is very limited, and getting through on the phone sometimes can be very testing.
Other than Alex's manufactured stuff you can get every product you need from wcw,
-
Quite the opposite....The facts have all been laid out by Stephen...
My point is, its an overall customer experience which is what I would rather be judged on...
i would keep stephen off the forum heseemsto have a different attitude to yourself
i have no personal issue with the chap but after reading his pointless discussion with gold
i can understand why he isnt liked.
im sure you will do well with your new product
-
Well i like mr fox, a decent chap, honest, and does not brain wash.
Also ive not seen the lad with the tash climbing his pole.
It was a very interesting video.
-
GQC
I think we need to address the balance here
I beg to differ in the customer service statement you made, as much as I like Alex and his staff, and I love his poles
I think the customer service that wcw offer is slightly better.
Alex's service is very good and his poles are brill, but his stock (other than key wfp supplies) is very limited, and getting through on the phone sometimes can be very testing.
Other than Alex's manufactured stuff you can get every product you need from wcw,
You seem to be Very pro wcw / facelift Dave ?
Anything to do with a ' trial ' of a pole you want ? or do they have a banner here ?
-
Ouch! :o
-
Who gives a monkeys? Pay for your item its delivered in good time it works, it doesn't move on.
I could not careless who dose what but if a supplier lets you down move on. Ionics I give 10 out of 10 and the same for Alex. What dose p me off is manufacturers competing on here, I dont see Ionics defending themselves when most on here think they are rubbish?
-
Not a chance
I like both alex and Steve, I know them both personally
I just trying to keep things balanced.
I dont need free poles, I pay my way for everything, never had anything free out of any of them apart from a finger chopper from Alex
I could say the same of you with Gardiners
-
P.S
FYI
I have trialled a pole for Alex in the past and ended up paying him full price minus 20% wear and tear from the previous tester.
I also gave him a very good idea, which he incorporated into his Extreme pole, without my input, it would of not been as usuable as it is ?
If you don't beleive me ask Alex.
Some people are just looking for an arguement, one might think.
-
Also IMO Dave Morris has an interest in WCW, not in a direct way, Pretty obvious really, especially for those who remember the past!!
I would discount Morris's attempt at "balance" as an abuse of forum position!
-
Also IMO Dave Morris has an interest in WCW, not in a direct way, Pretty obvious really, especially for those who remember the past!!
I would discount Morris's attempt at "balance" as an abuse of forum position!
Do enlighten us
-
winpro
Obvious ?
yes enlighten, us I am intrigued
-
Also IMO Dave Morris has an interest in WCW, not in a direct way, Pretty obvious really, especially for those who remember the past!!
I would discount Morris's attempt at "balance" as an abuse of forum position!
Do enlighten us
It would take too long, I'm not that way enclined to prove it. Just (as stated) my oppinoin, of which I'm entitled to. ;)
-
That's a pretty cryptic statement Winpro. Really would like to see what your getting at.
-
Hi Winpro
I swear to the almighty god, that I have no interest at all
We all have our opinions, as you can see I am not attacking anyone.
I just don't like people giving mis information about Suppliers I have dealt with for years, who have let me have equipment on account and given me first class service.
also had very good service off Alex Too
-
I have been fairly quiet but after some reflection I would like to add my thoughts...
The Bottom Line.... Product and Service
I find myself in a unique position in this industry, I’ve worked for a couple of different suppliers, worked with wc distributors in over 15 countries, provided wc equipment to window cleaners in over 30 countries.... I have been lucky enough to meet people, like you on here, who are generous enough to share their time and tell me what's important to them as a window cleaner, contract manager, director, business owner, distributor, general manager, supervisor or whatever title they happened to be and all these people helped focus me on what is important... Product and Service.
After all said and done, we could argue all year about what pole is the “best”, longest, lightest, most durable then people can speculate what things are made from, how long they will last, who has added inches here and shaved grams off their specs etc.... I believe this is clouding everyone’s focus...
Product and Service...
Every single pole in the industry can clean windows, does every pole suit you? That’s your choice.
Every single supplier in the industry can deliver when paid, do they all suit you?
That’s your choice.
Me, personally?
I believe the Phoenix is a good pole, Steve does too and Alex probably thinks’ its not bad either!
I have faith the office will perform the finest customer service every time, Steve does too and I believe our customers will, in time, have faith in our service too.
No song, no dance just a good product with good service...
I thank every single person who has taken the time to view or post on this debate... your enthusiasm is contagious.
Double nice one :)
-
I have been on here for some years and I can't remember Dave being biased towards wcw or any other supplier, his replies seem well balanced. If there is something wrong, or good he mentions it.
I've had good experiences with wcw as well, never a problem, I just think gardiner's is a step above that. Maybe if I dealt with wcw more I would be more inclined towards your opinion.
-
Not a chance
I like both alex and Steve, I know them both personally
I just trying to keep things balanced.
I dont need free poles, I pay my way for everything, never had anything free out of any of them apart from a finger chopper from Alex
I could say the same of you with Gardiners
Steve I can trial one
If I like it I will buy some
FROM HERE
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=160497.msg1334228#msg1334228
I could say the same of you with Gardiners
Eh ?
-
Who gives a monkeys? Pay for your item its delivered in good time it works, it doesn't move on.
I could not careless who dose what but if a supplier lets you down move on. Ionics I give 10 out of 10 and the same for Alex. What dose p me off is manufacturers competing on here, I dont see Ionics defending themselves when most on here think they are rubbish?
Ionics don't (overtly) come on here anymore after the slating some of their posts (which then seemed to get changed for a more sanitised view) received from some of this forum's denizens.
What I've learned on this forum is that if a supplier with mediocre or poor customer care or product takes forum members for fools and tries to baffle them, talk down to them, treat them disrespectfully or not answer their questions he or she will be answered accordingly.
Only the best (for forum members) survive on here.
-
Not a chance
I like both alex and Steve, I know them both personally
I just trying to keep things balanced.
I dont need free poles, I pay my way for everything, never had anything free out of any of them apart from a finger chopper from Alex
I could say the same of you with Gardiners
Steve I can trial one
If I like it I will buy some
FROM HERE
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=160497.msg1334228#msg1334228
I could say the same of you with Gardiners
Eh ?
An unbiased forum moderator or the owner of a national window cleaning company abusing his position?
-
Not a chance
I like both alex and Steve, I know them both personally
I just trying to keep things balanced.
I dont need free poles, I pay my way for everything, never had anything free out of any of them apart from a finger chopper from Alex
I could say the same of you with Gardiners
Steve I can trial one
If I like it I will buy some
FROM HERE
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=160497.msg1334228#msg1334228
I could say the same of you with Gardiners
Eh ?
An unbiased forum moderator or the owner of a national window cleaning company abusing his position?
integrity
n.
1. Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.
2. The state of being unimpaired; soundness.
3. The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness.
-
Not a chance
I like both alex and Steve, I know them both personally
I just trying to keep things balanced.
I dont need free poles, I pay my way for everything, never had anything free out of any of them apart from a finger chopper from Alex
I could say the same of you with Gardiners
Steve I can trial one
If I like it I will buy some
FROM HERE
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=160497.msg1334228#msg1334228
I could say the same of you with Gardiners
Eh ?
An unbiased forum moderator or the owner of a national window cleaning company abusing his position?
integrity
n.
1. Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.
2. The state of being unimpaired; soundness.
3. The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
jeez
talk about paranoid pam
You would pick an arguement with your own shadow.
You have clearly won, I am now bowing out of this conversation, it is far too complex for me,
p.s
I was operating out of a clapped out Volvo estate car 6 years ago, just an ordinary one man band who worked my butt of to build a reasonable, regional business. got there by blagging poles from suppliers
-
This argument will continue and in all honesty i cant see why .
2 companies that supply , if one company feels threatend by another companys product then go back to the drawing board and come back with a even better product .
You dont see tesco & asda argue THEY just get on with it .
WE as window cleaners should be happy that other companys are out there , who will compete = Result for us window cleaners .
Until companys with a good reputation stop this argument BECAUSE thats all it is then WE as window cleaners will never no which way to turn .
There will allways be the anti-people THATS FACT , dont like brodex , ionic systems , city link are crap , pulex rubber , unger poles , harris poles , fishing rods the list is Endless we as, Window cleaners should just sit back and let the new products HIT the market .
Then decide .
-
windows cleaners with overinflated egos what a shock
business as usual on ciu ;D
-
Who gives a monkeys? Pay for your item its delivered in good time it works, it doesn't move on.
I could not careless who dose what but if a supplier lets you down move on. Ionics I give 10 out of 10 and the same for Alex. What dose p me off is manufacturers competing on here, I dont see Ionics defending themselves when most on here think they are rubbish?
Ionics don't (overtly) come on here anymore after the slating some of their posts (which then seemed to get changed for a more sanitised view) received from some of this forum's denizens.
What I've learned on this forum is that if a supplier with mediocre or poor customer care or product takes forum members for fools and tries to baffle them, talk down to them, treat them disrespectfully or not answer their questions he or she will be answered accordingly.
Only the best (for forum members) survive on here.
I do remember Jason coming on here and getting battered but for what? replying to someone slagging them off, denizens as you call it,dont see that as taking forum members for fool's. I have spent a lot of money with Gardiner Pole Systems as with ionics and rate them both. With your comments you seam to imply that some or one supplier treat's customers who complain as idiots? A suggestion would be to stop suppliers/manufactures posting?
-
Thank you all for your input...
-
Isn't this all starting going a bit OTT? A bit like when the party is over but some wish to stay on beyond their welcome?
It's also worth remembering that not many from companies that make products take the effort to go on a forum.
Also, although I've never met Dave@St Ives in person, thankfully ;D, I've known him on this forum from day one and I don't think he's the type of person to be taking backhanders or free stuff from suppliers or what ever it is he is supposed to have done.
-
.
Also, although I've never met Dave@St Ives in person, thankfully ;D, I've known him on this forum from day one and I don't think he's the type of person to be taking backhanders or free stuff from suppliers or what ever it is he is supposed to have done.
dave not take backhands from suppliers ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
dave you never paid me for that 200ltrs of pure water :o :o :o :o :o
-
££££££££££ I I I I ..... Where the photo of the turkey?
-
Frank
Do I owe you money ?
Is it more than 50p
-
jeez
talk about paranoid pam
You would pick an arguement with your own shadow.
You have clearly won, I am now bowing out of this conversation, it is far too complex for me,
p.s
I was operating out of a clapped out Volvo estate car 6 years ago, just an ordinary one man band who worked my butt of to build a reasonable, regional business. got there by blagging poles from suppliers
and got yourself a Porsche in the meanwhile! You down for the Cleaning Show?
-
Hi Steve
I sure am, hoping to meet my fan club :P
also to pick up that free pole ;D
-
Hi Steve
I sure am, hoping to meet my fan club :P
also to pick up that free pole ;D
You've earn't it!....... being a shareholder an all!
-
Good Idea, Lets Mock
Despite it all being here in black and white
No surprise Foxy is now standing up for Dave, afterall why wouldnt he ?
Not a chance
I like both alex and Steve, I know them both personally
I just trying to keep things balanced.
I dont need free poles, I pay my way for everything, never had anything free out of any of them apart from a finger chopper from Alex
I could say the same of you with Gardiners
Steve I can trial one
If I like it I will buy some
FROM HERE
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=160497.msg1334228#msg1334228
I could say the same of you with Gardiners
Eh ?
-
Please keep it polite guys; you can discuss the merits of any item of equipment without having to get personal. Getting personal displays a distinct lack of argument and when it happens late at night, I suspect it's alcohol or drug fuelled.
That's why I tend to lock the posts that I suspect are turning bitchy, and open them again in the morning.
-
££££££££££ I I I I ..... Where the photo of the turkey?
Just an observation but you need to watch what you say you have only been on here 5 mins and you only seem to come on here to have a dig at people so i am assuming . You are not a window cleaner and just a plant to fire people up . Mike ;D ;D
-
James
I couldn't give a monkeys what you think
Accuse me of whatever you want. I just simply don't care
From your attacks on me you are obviously someone who has got a problem wih me
I think everyone can see you lost your argument when you posted I I I I £££££, so that is 3 things you have picked on me in one post. I can never win because everyone knows arguing with a child is pointless.
If you want to carry on, you can, but I won't be listening, because I am out
-
James
I think everyone can see you lost your argument when you posted I I I I £££££, so that is 3 things you have picked on me in one post. I can never win because everyone knows arguing with a child is pointless.
If you want to carry on, you can, but I won't be listening, because I am out
I lost my argument because i posted what ?
This ?
££££££££££ I I I I ..... Where the photo of the turkey?
A post made by Joey Heinz ?
I think you might have lost the plot, try and keep up will ya
I guess everyone could see that except you :-X
-
Ah fair enough, no probs
-
Like I said in the thread where Tosh posted the picture of the turkey and later locked the thread after having a had few words to say about me; the standard of moderation on the facelift/slx debates seems poor.
But we're all human so why don't we see how the new facelift poles and the follow up service are in practice?
I could replace my two shorter SLX's from any time now but think I'll do a refurb and in three to six months we'll have some objective views about facelift poles in comparison with Gardiners.
Then I may have a choice between two excellent pole ranges; I hope so!
If not I know SLX's are perfect for me in the shorter ranges (below 25ft) and the extreme's in the higher.
-
I think you are all missing one golden nugget and that is the clx
we have about 10 of them and using them since they came out, not one of them has died on us yet, we dismantled one for spares as we had a snapped section and a few broken clamps, but overall they are the best poles we have ever had.
We also have 2 slx poles, one of them is the mk1 version, both are still in good condition, only problem is they dont get used so much because of the black hand issue associated with carbon poles
-
Classic James Leet!! Always gotta throw his ten pence worth in (and thats exactly all it's worth).
-
They say every village has one and you're ours Foster
-
I don't really see what the problem is with getting black hands. You guys are not hand models are you? Wash your hands at the end of the day, probably still will have some black here and there but so what really? The cleaner you keep the pole and pole hose the less black your hands get. Best to keep the pole hose off the ground and you barely will have a problem. All carbon fibre poles will eventually make your hands black.
-
I think you are all missing one golden nugget and that is the clx
we have about 10 of them and using them since they came out, not one of them has died on us yet, we dismantled one for spares as we had a snapped section and a few broken clamps, but overall they are the best poles we have ever had.
We also have 2 slx poles, one of them is the mk1 version, both are still in good condition, only problem is they dont get used so much because of the black hand issue associated with carbon poles
Would you like me to have one of those SLX's then??? I hear your a very very nice guy. ;D
-
Cant understand the black hands gardiners and others sell PTFE dry film formula you just spray your pole sections every 2-4 weeks depending on usage this forms a protective layer on pole and prevents wear and black hands .
Had a Carbon pole for 18 months and no black hands ;D ;D ;D . Mike
-
Your not using it hard enough
-
Suprise, suprise up pops DG!! The partner in crime, just like clockwork. I think we should put a new post up on herefor everyone to vote on who is the biggest nob on this forum. You'd be right up there mate.
-
I think people will only have to read your 10 posts so far to realise what a charming and erudite member you've proven to be Gareth ;D
-
You can also reach windows that the slx can't due to it being bendier, aspeciall windows over flat roofs etc
-
They say every village has one and you're ours Foster
You have a stalker my friend, granted its a low quality stalker, but a stalker is a stalker, you have made it in life ;)
-
Looks like it mate, ;D
-
Looks like it mate, ;D
Just enjoy it ;)