Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: David Kent @ KentKleen on November 02, 2012, 09:46:16 pm
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I am hitting the button to take a look at facelift phoenix poles using the banner on this site but all i can see is the info on the old range. I can however see the 2011 catalogue! WHATS ALL THAT ABOUT? Its nearly 2013!
Facelift can you please confirm the weights and lengths you have advertised regarding your phoenix pole range please.
There seems to be some confusion on the matter. I.E Poles are heavier and not as long as advertised.
Kind regards from a,
Potential customer
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I did ask in the main topic the other week if the main retail poles would be of the exact specification of the first pre-retail batch that they were promoting. Mike answered every other question in the entire thread bar that one!
Makes you wonder, wouldn't be the first time. ???
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Sorry guys... With questions coming left, right and centre I may have missed one or two! Doing my best... ;D
I put a snippet of the specs on a post but I think it got removed!
Feel free to drop me a mail as I have emailed a PDF spec sheet to a fair few people already who have contacted me...
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Sorry guys... With questions coming left, right and centre I may have missed one or two! Doing my best... ;D
I put a snippet of the specs on a post but I think it got removed!
Feel free to drop me a mail as I have emailed a PDF spec sheet to a fair few people already who have contacted me...
Daqua put your specs up, so you need not worry.
Art
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from Alex Gardiner:
I have the Phoenix X full-carbon poles and they are heavier than as advertised on the information posted above. The actual weights of the bare Phoenix full carbon poles are below:
Phoenix X 22 Full Carbon = 1.36kg (advertised as 1.2kg)
Phoenix X 26UL (actual length under 25ft) Full Carbon = 1.45kg (advertised as 1.3kg)
So the actual weights are not as close as they appear from the 'published specs'.
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from Alex Gardiner:
I have the Phoenix X full-carbon poles and they are heavier than as advertised on the information posted above. The actual weights of the bare Phoenix full carbon poles are below:
Phoenix X 22 Full Carbon = 1.36kg (advertised as 1.2kg)
Phoenix X 26UL (actual length under 25ft) Full Carbon = 1.45kg (advertised as 1.3kg)
So the actual weights are not as close as they appear from the 'published specs'.
So an unbiased post then!
haha!
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Are the weights that alex quoted wrong stephen?
Danny
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from Alex Gardiner:
I have the Phoenix X full-carbon poles and they are heavier than as advertised on the information posted above. The actual weights of the bare Phoenix full carbon poles are below:
Phoenix X 22 Full Carbon = 1.36kg (advertised as 1.2kg)
Phoenix X 26UL (actual length under 25ft) Full Carbon = 1.45kg (advertised as 1.3kg)
So the actual weights are not as close as they appear from the 'published specs'.
So an unbiased post then!
haha!
why? did you double check your specs before saying it is an unbiased post??
if Alex is right ( i have no doubt) you are very unprofessional!
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According to our scales, yes. I would like to see the same set of scales weighing a Gardiners pole and a Phoenix side by side - this would give a true comparison of the poles and preferably by a non supplier, unbiased person!! In practice users of both the SLX and Phoenix have said the Phoenix feels lighter to use, this maybe due to the Phoenix X pole being more ridged.
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from Alex Gardiner:
I have the Phoenix X full-carbon poles and they are heavier than as advertised on the information posted above. The actual weights of the bare Phoenix full carbon poles are below:
Phoenix X 22 Full Carbon = 1.36kg (advertised as 1.2kg)
Phoenix X 26UL (actual length under 25ft) Full Carbon = 1.45kg (advertised as 1.3kg)
So the actual weights are not as close as they appear from the 'published specs'.
So an unbiased post then!
haha!
why? did you double check your specs before saying it is an unbiased post??
if Alex is right ( i have no doubt) you are very unprofessional!
So if Alex's 'claim' is wrong what does that make him? Yes we did double check the specs.
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Are you not Stephen fox owner of both WCW and Facelift? ???
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from Alex Gardiner:
I have the Phoenix X full-carbon poles and they are heavier than as advertised on the information posted above. The actual weights of the bare Phoenix full carbon poles are below:
Phoenix X 22 Full Carbon = 1.36kg (advertised as 1.2kg)
Phoenix X 26UL (actual length under 25ft) Full Carbon = 1.45kg (advertised as 1.3kg)
So the actual weights are not as close as they appear from the 'published specs'.
So an unbiased post then!
haha!
why? did you double check your specs before saying it is an unbiased post??
if Alex is right ( i have no doubt) you are very unprofessional!
So if Alex's 'claim' is wrong what does that make him? Yes we did double check the specs.
he is very professional, he knows perfectly how to run a business....
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he is very professional, he knows perfectly how to run a business....
Ok.... So if Alex is right we are 'very' unprofessional and if he is wrong then............? Is he unprofessional or will he still be professional? One rule should fit all, no?
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If these poles have sold so well, why can't some else weight it and confirm the weight.
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he is very professional, he knows perfectly how to run a business....
Ok.... So if Alex is right we are 'very' unprofessional and if he is wrong then............? Is he unprofessional or will he still be professional? One rule should fit all, no?
i am sure he is 100% right, he is a honest guy!
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If these poles have sold so well, why can't some else weight it and confirm the weight.
because the scales are all made in china and read differently
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Reminds me of the scene in "The Office" when Gareth phones up the calculator supplier and claims it is wrong ... ;D
Now I wonder who is the most consistently professional, accurate and honest supplier of window cleaning poles?
Who has a track record to trust the most?
Who doesn't get defensive and "antsy" when a claim is made about inaccuracy of measurements?
Hmmmmmmm .... ?
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summat about digging springs to mind!
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Lee, there will be a load of weigh in's from people in the next week without a doubt. I personally wouldn't trust a competitors ' review of a product. I would much prefer to see a users honest opinion and facts. I think there was a few SLX owners at the mini vanfest they would give you a unbiased view point.
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Are you not Stephen fox owner of both WCW and Facelift? ???
Can you answer this question please?
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To be honest stephen i have used both poles side by side and richy wilts place and couldn't really see the difference. The facelift poles did seem stiffer.....BUT the poles that were shown there didn't have pole hose in, brushes on and the weren't 8 months old like my clx is. The jury is still out in my opinion on the clamps as they haven't had months of day to day use like my clx pole has had. I hope that everything is brilliant with the range of poles because at the end of the day the people that will end up better off is us, the window cleaners.
Danny
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Who doesn't get defensive and "antsy" when a claim is made about inaccuracy of measurements?
Hmmmmmmm .... ?
If your making out Alex doesn't then I think you should look back at some of his posts! The minute someone attacks a Gardiners pole he is all over it!
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Ok.... So if Alex is right we are 'very' unprofessional and if he is wrong then............? Is he unprofessional or will he still be professional? One rule should fit all, no?
I'd doubt he's wrong, but if he was i reckon he'd apologise. You where very quick to jump in with the "biased" claim. Personally i think you should of left it and not replied, might of looked better for you.
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To be honest stephen i have used both poles side by side and richy wilts place and couldn't really see the difference. The facelift poles did seem stiffer.....BUT the poles that were shown there didn't have pole hose in, brushes on and the weren't 8 months old like my clx is. The jury is still out in my opinion on the clamps as they haven't had months of day to day use like my clx pole has had. I hope that everything is brilliant with the range of poles because at the end of the day the people that will end up better off is us, the window cleaners.
Danny
:o :o about as pointless as a chocolate fire guard then!!!!!
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To be honest stephen i have used both poles side by side and richy wilts place and couldn't really see the difference. The facelift poles did seem stiffer.....BUT the poles that were shown there didn't have pole hose in, brushes on and the weren't 8 months old like my clx is. The jury is still out in my opinion on the clamps as they haven't had months of day to day use like my clx pole has had. I hope that everything is brilliant with the range of poles because at the end of the day the people that will end up better off is us, the window cleaners.
Danny
Danny, never a wiser word said. Time will tell.
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Ok.... So if Alex is right we are 'very' unprofessional and if he is wrong then............? Is he unprofessional or will he still be professional? One rule should fit all, no?
I'd doubt he's wrong, but if he was i reckon he'd apologise. You where very quick to jump in with the "biased" claim. Personally i think you should of left it and not replied, might of looked better for you.
I know, late night glass of wine...........
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Who doesn't get defensive and "antsy" when a claim is made about inaccuracy of measurements?
Hmmmmmmm .... ?
If your making out Alex doesn't then I think you should look back at some of his posts! The minute someone attacks a Gardiners pole he is all over it!
Interesting partial quote Stephen ... I just asked the question; but perhaps you would like to highlight an example of your assertion about Alex for us to consider?
If you post any examples then we might consider if you have posted in context and if Alex's highlighted responses are fair, are trustworthy and have the "ring of truth" about them?
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Alcoholic?
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If these poles have sold so well, why can't some else weight it and confirm the weight.
because the scales are all made in china and read differently
Its a well know fact the post like TV, always adds a couple of pounds
Art
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Alcoholic?
Kate
Kate1
Catherine10
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I believe 2 people have given a review so far regarding the phoenix. Can anyone answer my question regarding the poles please? Are the published spec's right or wrong? PLEASE
If it was my pole company I would be straight on it!
YES or NO
TO BE or NOT TO BE
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To be honest stephen i have used both poles side by side and richy wilts place and couldn't really see the difference. The facelift poles did seem stiffer.....BUT the poles that were shown there didn't have pole hose in, brushes on and the weren't 8 months old like my clx is. The jury is still out in my opinion on the clamps as they haven't had months of day to day use like my clx pole has had. I hope that everything is brilliant with the range of poles because at the end of the day the people that will end up better off is us, the window cleaners.
Danny
:o :o about as pointless as a chocolate fire guard then!!!!!
Not really mate, you could tell that their wouldn't be much in them. A couple did have brush's on but the were big daft unger ones so you couldnt really compare 100%. Facelift have defo got good poles, as good as gardiners?? I really dont know. I think a lot comes down to customer service as well.....if brodex were to release a pole to compete with a gardiners, would i buy it? Would i feck! I think everyone needs to chill out slating facelift, for the moment at least. Give it 6 months and wait and see how everything is when it all settles down. As window cleaners we cant really loose....the more competition the better i think
Danny
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Who doesn't get defensive and "antsy" when a claim is made about inaccuracy of measurements?
Hmmmmmmm .... ?
If your making out Alex doesn't then I think you should look back at some of his posts! The minute someone attacks a Gardiners pole he is all over it!
Interesting partial quote Stephen ... I just asked the question; but perhaps you would like to highlight an example of your assertion about Alex for us to consider?
If you post any examples then we might consider if you have posted in context and if Alex's highlighted responses are fair, are trustworthy and have the "ring of truth" about them?
Gold, I know you are a hardcore respected member of this site, but Alex is a member of a number of other forums and posts regularly on them the minute anything is mentioned about his products. As for this site, it's a little late, but as an example:-
You are right about 30ft one.I compared the 25 ft.
SLX 25 ft £245 + VAT = £ 294 (free delivery)
XINBO 25 ft VAT inc. = £ 153.60 (free delivery)
The 25ft Xinbo is only 25% carbon fibre though which is half the carbon content of the CLX range. The SLX range are 100% carbon fibre so cannot really be compared.
etc, etc, etc
so it's not only us who get defensive, just to lay it out there and show some balance.
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I am not slating facelift, i just want to know are the spec's right or wrong! the poles look great, but i would like to know the correct sizes and weights.
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yes but wasnt alex telling the truth???? the facts??
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Are you not Stephen fox owner of both WCW and Facelift? ???
Can you answer this question please?
third time and last time, Can you answer this question PLEASE?
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It just gets better and better,Mr.Fox seemingly berating Alex Gardiner for telling the truth!
"Its just not cricket Alex"
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That reads to me as if he is stating his facts about products.
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And my questions. PLEASE
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I believe 2 people have given a review so far regarding the phoenix. Can anyone answer my question regarding the poles please? Are the published spec's right or wrong? PLEASE
If it was my pole company I would be straight on it!
YES or NO
TO BE or NOT TO BE
Published spec are correct as bare pole just like Gardiners specs are published.
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Are you not Stephen fox owner of both WCW and Facelift? ???
Can you answer this question please?
third time and last time, Can you answer this question PLEASE?
Ben, yes as my profile states.
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And my question MR FOX?
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It just gets better and better,Mr.Fox seemingly berating Alex Gardiner for telling the truth!
"Its just not cricket Alex"
Not really. Alex out and out attacking the Phoenix pole, that needs some realigning.
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Are you not Stephen fox owner of both WCW and Facelift? ???
Can you answer this question please?
third time and last time, Can you answer this question PLEASE?
Ben, yes as my profile states.
Thank you
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Kentkleen has got there before me; but Stephen, the point is that Alex is just explaining that the Xinbo and CLX are of different material and that the SLX is different again.
And there is no "defensiveness" or "antsy-ness" - just a clear statement of fact as he sees it. A putting straight the record.
As I see it Alex is consistently a true professional as he takes the time to give a true comparison as he knows not just his but his competitors' products.
As mentioned above - it is the customer service which counts and that is where you will have to come up trumps - because all things being equal that; not even the unattainable perfection, is what will win you customers.
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Kentkleen has got there before me; but Stephen, the point is that Alex is just explaining that the Xinbo and CLX are of different material and that the SLX is different again.
And there is no "defensiveness" or "antsy-ness" - just a clear statement of fact as he sees it. A putting straight the record.
As I see it Alex is consistently a true professional as he takes the time to give a true comparison as he knows not just his but his competitors' products.
As mentioned above - it is the customer service which counts and that is where you will have to come up trumps - because all things being equal that; not even the unattainable perfection, is what will win you customers.
+1
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ARE YOU THERE MR FOX?
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ARE YOU THERE MR FOX?
too late, he is gone now, too drunk! ;D ;D
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;D
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Kentkleen has got there before me; but Stephen, the point is that Alex is just explaining that the Xinbo and CLX are of different material and that the SLX is different again.
And there is no "defensiveness" or "antsy-ness" - just a clear statement of fact as he sees it. A putting straight the record.
As I see it Alex is consistently a true professional as he takes the time to give a true comparison as he knows not just his but his competitors' products.
As mentioned above - it is the customer service which counts and that is where you will have to come up trumps - because all things being equal that; not even the unattainable perfection, is what will win you customers.
Ok fully understand, keyboard sometimes doesn't expound the sentiment correctly. You are totally right, there is more to this than a product.
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ARE YOU THERE MR FOX?
Yes
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Do you think he is out with a tape measure and a set of kitchen scales? ;D
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Do you think he is out with a tape measure and a set of kitchen scales? ;D
Me or Alex??
haha
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are you going to answer my original question please?
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I said please! ;D
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I think alex will be tucked up in bed with a smile on his face :D
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ARE YOU THERE MR FOX?
too late, he is gone now, too drunk! ;D ;D
Ben, not drunk at all. How about yourself?
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kentkleen have you got a question? ;D ;D ;D
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are you going to answer my original question please?
Kentkleen, which one? I'll answer it straight away.
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Are your advertised weights and lengths correct?
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ARE YOU THERE MR FOX?
too late, he is gone now, too drunk! ;D ;D
Ben, not drunk at all. How about yourself?
no i am afraid, i don't drink wine like you do but when i see your posts i should maybe start to have a glass or 2...
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ARE YOU THERE MR FOX?
too late, he is gone now, too drunk! ;D ;D
Ben, not drunk at all. How about yourself?
no i am afraid, i don't drink wine like you do but when i see your posts i should maybe start to have a glass or 2...
Not sure what I've said to offend you Ben. :-\
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You said straight away! >:(
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You said straight away! >:(
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hello is there anybody there? ;D
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ARE YOU THERE MR FOX?
too late, he is gone now, too drunk! ;D ;D
Ben, not drunk at all. How about yourself?
no i am afraid, i don't drink wine like you do but when i see your posts i should maybe start to have a glass or 2...
Not sure what I've said to offend you Ben. :-\
no worries Mr Fox, only joking ;)
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Are your advertised weights and lengths correct?
Yes, as bare pole without hose, etc just as Gardiners advertise theirs. This only mentioned as Alex has stated otherwise. Would like someone in near future to show both poles side by side without attachments etc on the same scales along with lengths etc.
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Hello is there anybody there? ;D
you make me laugh! ;D ;D ;D
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You said straight away! >:(
Sorry Kent, replies appearing thick and fast!
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ARE YOU THERE MR FOX?
too late, he is gone now, too drunk! ;D ;D
Ben, not drunk at all. How about yourself?
no i am afraid, i don't drink wine like you do but when i see your posts i should maybe start to have a glass or 2...
Not sure what I've said to offend you Ben. :-\
no worries Mr Fox, only joking ;)
;)
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Are your advertised weights and lengths correct?
Yes, as bare pole without hose, etc just as Gardiners advertise theirs. This only mentioned as Alex has stated otherwise. Would like someone in near future to show both poles side by side without attachments etc on the same scales along with lengths etc.
should we ask Tosh or dazmond to organise that?
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Are your advertised weights and lengths correct?
Yes, as bare pole without hose, etc just as Gardiners advertise theirs. This only mentioned as Alex has stated otherwise. Would like someone in near future to show both poles side by side without attachments etc on the same scales along with lengths etc.
should we ask Tosh or dazmond to organise that?
Yes, that would be ideal.
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Thats great. Thanks for the reply. Can i order a 26 ultra light and discount alex's remarks then? I do need it to be 26 foot though as i have a specific job (a high end comercial job) that requires a 26 footer plus my reach! If so when will they be in stock?
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Thats great. Thanks for the reply. Can i order a 26 ultra light and discount alex's remarks then? I do need it to be 26 foot though as i have a specific job (a high end comercial job) that requires a 26 footer plus my reach! If so when will they be in stock?
in 6 months if you are lucky! ;D
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Might move to america to get one ;)
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In production now and should be ready early next week. Website will go live to announce this. ;)
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Might move to america to get one ;)
or china! ;)
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Might move to america to get one ;)
or china! ;)
Nope, UK made!
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Stephen can you answer my last question please? :)
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Stephen can you answer my last question please? :)
Sorry Kentkleen, doing 4 things at once, replied above.
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Video is good. Why are all the clamps/levers worn on the slx? Did you not compare a brand new slx with your brand new ultra light? Especially with the clean cloth test??
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I have to be honest, your pole look good! i have a slx25 so it is good to compare!
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Video is good. Why are all the clamps/levers worn on the slx? Did you not compare a brand new slx with your brand new ultra light? Especially with the clean cloth test??
It was made very quickly in response to another video...... That was the only pole close to hand and it's fairly new. The clean cloth test can be carried out on a new pole to the same effect as others will testify.
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Video is good. Why are all the clamps/levers worn on the slx? Did you not compare a brand new slx with your brand new ultra light? Especially with the clean cloth test??
It was made very quickly in response to another video...... That was the only pole close to hand and it's fairly new. The clean cloth test can be carried out on a new pole to the same effect as others will testify.
which one?
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A couple things i didnt like about that video stephen. Firstly the part where you are cleaning the two poles is a bit of a joke as the slx is a used pole so will obviously have more signs of wear on it, especialy the top section that you wiped. Secondly, when you done the "stiffness test" the slx had pole hose running through it....apart from it not being new like the facelift pole! Not completely unbiased
Danny
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A couple things i didnt like about that video stephen. Firstly the part where you are cleaning the two poles is a bit of a joke as the slx is a used pole so will obviously have more signs of wear on it, especialy the top section that you wiped. Secondly, when you done the "stiffness test" the slx had pole hose running through it....apart from it not being new like the facelift pole! Not completely unbiased
Danny
I have to agree, not completely unbiased Mr Fox
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and my question has still not been answered. ok its time for bed. i am looking forward to tomorrows responses in this post!
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and my question has still not been answered. ok its time for bed. i am looking forward to tomorrows responses in this post!
good night Kent, time for bed too!
Good night Mr Fox
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A couple things i didnt like about that video stephen. Firstly the part where you are cleaning the two poles is a bit of a joke as the slx is a used pole so will obviously have more signs of wear on it, especialy the top section that you wiped. Secondly, when you done the "stiffness test" the slx had pole hose running through it....apart from it not being new like the facelift pole! Not completely unbiased
Danny
Danny, fully appreciate what you are saying with the wear test, but as any owner of these poles will tell you this is an issue, even early on.
There is not hose running through the SLX it was disconnected, what you see is the few inches of hose going into the quick release JG fitting which would make no difference to the stiffness of the pole. We put the heavy brush heads on each to show a like for like comparison.
As previously said, only a user of both poles can comment on the 'real' day to day use to give a complete review with no agenda.
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and my question has still not been answered. ok its time for bed. i am looking forward to tomorrows responses in this post!
he did answer your question lol
Quote from: kentkleen on Today at 12:20:14 am
Video is good. Why are all the clamps/levers worn on the slx? Did you not compare a brand new slx with your brand new ultra light? Especially with the clean cloth test??
It was made very quickly in response to another video...... That was the only pole close to hand and it's fairly new. The clean cloth test can be carried out on a new pole to the same effect as others will testify.
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http://youtu.be/HHTn9ft7aXY
at 6.35 he is destroying the competitors pole ;D
Another thing about the length
(http://i.imgur.com/B3E6L.jpg)
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Their will always some some slating of rival products as peoples loyalties are to different people or companies it is the norm i think .
I believe it is vitally important to provide accurate details about a product ,In an earlier post it was confirmed that published Specs were correct think it was on previous page .
Errors have been made by facelift which is a shame and shown them up a bit but if they get things in order quick and provide good customer service it will show their true worth .
I bought an Elite 35 ft carbon pole April 2011 and the weights were not confirmed correctly then and the pole sections were shorter than advertised which they contacted me about 24 hrs after dispatch once they realised mistakes had been made .
They offered to replace the pole straight away but as it happened i did not really need a pole that big so was happy to keep it as it was, They refunded me the difference in cost of a shorter pole and sent me out a 18ft fibreglass pole for free.
It is a top quality pole and the fact that they sorted things out asap means i would defo buy again as they have won my trust through been honest and providing good customer service . Mike
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Ok.... So if Alex is right we are 'very' unprofessional and if he is wrong then............? Is he unprofessional or will he still be professional? One rule should fit all, no?
I'd doubt he's wrong, but if he was i reckon he'd apologise. You where very quick to jump in with the "biased" claim. Personally i think you should of left it and not replied, might of looked better for you.
I know, late night glass of wine...........
So drunk and unprofessional what a combination !!
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Their will always some some slating of rival products as peoples loyalties are to different people or companies it is the norm i think .
I believe it is vitally important to provide accurate details about a product ,In an earlier post it was confirmed that published Specs were correct think it was on previous page .
Errors have been made by facelift which is a shame and shown them up a bit but if they get things in order quick and provide good customer service it will show their true worth .
I bought an Elite 35 ft carbon pole April 2011 and the weights were not confirmed correctly then and the pole sections were shorter than advertised which they contacted me about 24 hrs after dispatch once they realised mistakes had been made .
They offered to replace the pole straight away but as it happened i did not really need a pole that big so was happy to keep it as it was, They refunded me the difference in cost of a shorter pole and sent me out a 18ft fibreglass pole for free.
It is a top quality pole and the fact that they sorted things out asap means i would defo buy again as they have won my trust through been honest and providing good customer service . Mike
good post....speak as you find...its hilarious that anyone who uses gardiners poles(nothing personal against gardiners) are so eager to jump down facelifts throats even without even have tried the
poles
window cleaners are so eassily brainwashed ;D ;D
not that im much bothered i use the best pole on the market anyway...the harris and mine
has a fibre glass section at the bottom which gets me to third floor ;D
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Has anyone got a link to the video? What 2 poles is he comparing?
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Has anyone got a link to the video? What 2 poles is he comparing?
the video has been removed >:(, it has been posted by stephen fox last night around midnight!
very interesting video....
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He was comparing Gardiners SLX to Phoenix.
It looks like this is going to start a legal war between Alex and Stephen.
And we are the witnesses.
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What were the 2 pole he was comparing, what length?
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From my point of view, I think sticking to the facts of all this debate is important...
A) There has now been a few comments/ mini reviews on the poles and I think we all agree they have good...
B) Until people have used the poles for days, weeks and months and experienced dealing with me or anybody else in our company, they are not in a position to comment on the service or the product....
C) Great products always cause the competition or those people most loyal to the competition to take aim... It human instinct... I respect that.
D) The Details of the poles we have published are factual and as Stephen has implied, We have used the industry standard policy when it comes to weights and length's.
E) The materials which our poles are made from are completely public knowledge... We have nothing to hide.
and finally...
F) We appreciate potential customers, customers and competitors taking the time out of your days, evenings and weekends to discuss our products...
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Their will always some some slating of rival products as peoples loyalties are to different people or companies it is the norm i think .
I believe it is vitally important to provide accurate details about a product ,In an earlier post it was confirmed that published Specs were correct think it was on previous page .
Errors have been made by facelift which is a shame and shown them up a bit but if they get things in order quick and provide good customer service it will show their true worth .
I bought an Elite 35 ft carbon pole April 2011 and the weights were not confirmed correctly then and the pole sections were shorter than advertised which they contacted me about 24 hrs after dispatch once they realised mistakes had been made .
They offered to replace the pole straight away but as it happened i did not really need a pole that big so was happy to keep it as it was, They refunded me the difference in cost of a shorter pole and sent me out a 18ft fibreglass pole for free.
It is a top quality pole and the fact that they sorted things out asap means i would defo buy again as they have won my trust through been honest and providing good customer service . Mike
good post....speak as you find...its hilarious that anyone who uses gardiners poles(nothing personal against gardiners) are so eager to jump down facelifts throats even without even have tried the
poles
window cleaners are so eassily brainwashed ;D ;D
not that im much bothered i use the best pole on the market anyway...the harris and mine
has a fibre glass section at the bottom which gets me to third floor ;D
No different to the Iphone k n o b s who think everything else is rubbish. It is just ignorance, prejudice and a need to identify with a brand. Gardiners poles are a hundred times better than xtel's (the only other type I have used) but the clamps have quality issues. I have had to reglue two in 6 months. The first within 4 weeks.
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Mike, can you show us again the video Stephen posted last night regarding your phoenix pole vs gardiner slx 25 please?
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Ok,just got the tape measure out.
Fibre glass 18 ft pole is 514 cm = just under 17 ft
Response please Facelift
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If the video was comparing the 26ul and the slx 25, they are not comparable as the 26ul top section isn't meant to be used regularly, so really you should compare both 22ft poles. The slx 25 can be used as a 25ft pole all day everyday.
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Ok,just got the tape measure out.
Fibre glass 18 ft pole is 514 cm = just under 17 ft
Response please Facelift
16.86ft exactly! shocking! :o :o
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If it wasn't so cold outside I'd go measure some of our poles.
What are you measuring, the pole extended to its stops, so, working length?
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If the video was comparing the 26ul and the slx 25, they are not comparable as the 26ul top section isn't meant to be used regularly, so really you should compare both 22ft poles. The slx 25 can be used as a 25ft pole all day everyday.
why?
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Yes measuring upto the stops,well whipping in this case.so that is the working length. As I have a plastic angle adpter on I measured upto the adjusting screw.
But still is a lot shorter than 18 ft. Not happy .
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If the video was comparing the 26ul and the slx 25, they are not comparable as the 26ul top section isn't meant to be used regularly, so really you should compare both 22ft poles. The slx 25 can be used as a 25ft pole all day everyday.
why?
Because its a short narrow section that has been put in the top section and probably doesn't have the strength to be used constantly, it gets extended with the no2 section, so I would imagine it would add extra weight to the end of the pole, you only extend it when you know you need to go over 22foot.
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Yes measuring upto the stops,well whipping in this case.so that is the working length. As I have a plastic angle adpter on I measured upto the adjusting screw.
But still is a lot shorter than 18 ft. Not happy .
send it back & get a refund you wanted a 18ft pole & its not 18ft.
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Yes measuring upto the stops,well whipping in this case.so that is the working length. As I have a plastic angle adpter on I measured upto the adjusting screw.
But still is a lot shorter than 18 ft. Not happy .
what about the weight wightsurf?
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This is the info I have been after from Facelift from the start of this thread. I have not once slagged off facelift but have indeed mentioned that the video looks good, (yes i saw it) and that in fact if they can tell me the exact size of the 26ft ultralite and it is truly 26ft then I will buy one. (3 actually)
Can i have a clear response to the above as I am even more worried with this new revelation coming out regarding the size of the 18ft fibreglass pole.
Thank you in advance.
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have a look at the last 2 pages on the other thread about facelift. ;D
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This is the info I have been after from Facelift from the start of this thread. I have not once slagged off facelift but have indeed mentioned that the video looks good, (yes i saw it) and that in fact if they can tell me the exact size of the 26ft ultralite and it is truly 26ft then I will buy one. (3 actually)
Can i have a clear response to the above as I am even more worried with this new revelation coming out regarding the size of the 18ft fibreglass pole.
Thank you in advance.
Hello Kent,how are you? did you have a good night? lol
Where is Mr Fox today? it is very difficult to have a clear answer from facelift! >:(
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I cant believe in this modern world you can advertise a pole as 18ft and it does not even measure 17ft! How is this possible.
Its like saying you clean all the frames every visit and then just cleaning the glass. End result, customers not happy.
Does anyone disagree with the above 2 comments?
Fine by the way Ben. Dont know where fantastic MR FOX is? Might be measuring his pole ;D
Seriously tho I want a 26ft ultra IF it is truly 26ft!
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I cant believe in this modern world you can advertise a pole as 18ft and it does not even measure 17ft! How is this possible.
Its like saying you clean all the frames every visit and then just cleaning the glass. End result, customers not happy.
Does anyone disagree with the above 2 comments?
Fine by the way Ben. Dont know where fantastic MR FOX is? Might be measuring his pole ;D
Seriously tho I want a 26ft ultra IF it is truly 26ft!
You udo realise that the 26 is actually a 22 with a small extra top section not designed for every day use?
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Ok,just got the tape measure out.
Fibre glass 18 ft pole is 514 cm = just under 17 ft
Response please Facelift
Have you got an 18ft Phoenix? You can extend it further than the bands at the base which you can't do with a positive stop pole.
Good thing you havn't got an CLX/SLX 18 as they are only just 17ft and are fixed.
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he asked me to get a review of someone who had the 18ft pole i said the only review i have seen is for the 18ft fibreglass pole. then i said i wonder if the person has measured it. then i come in here & boom the 18ft is not 18ft. ;D ;D
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Yes that will be fine I use a 22ft clx all day everyday. Need 26ft actual pole length for 2 commercial job. NOT 25 not 25.5 I NEED 26.
Now either Alex has measured wrong or the spec's are out. I dont fancy ordering one just to find out. I just want the truth.
Has anyone else got a 26ft ultralite they can measure please?
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hello Mr Fox, can we have the video back please?
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Yes 18 phoenix . I'm 1 ft 4 inches short roughly.so 16 inches .
Each blue stop band is 15 cm .how's this pole get to.18 ft.
You did say these where actual length poles,mines not. So can I have a 18 ft pole please.
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We don't advertise the pole as 18ft actual length top to bottom, just as Alex's pole is are not 18 or 22ft. The are just called Phoenix 18 as when you add angle neck brush head, etc. the pole will be 18ft. This is industry practice at present, look at all of the Gardiner, etc pole specs for clarification. The current 18,22,etc are not the full lengths of these poles.
You can extend the poles further than the bands making them longer than other '18's out there as there are no positive stops on the pole and there is room for extension.
Wightsurf, if you are not completely satisfied with your pole I can arrange a pick and complete refund. We want 100% satisfaction for our customers.
Besides this, how are you finding it?
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Are you recommending over-extension of your poles to get them to advertised height?
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if i have a phoenix 26ft, can i had sections to make it longer? if yes how many sections can i add? is it easy to add and remove the section?
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Are you recommending over-extension of your poles to get them to advertised height?
There is room for play in the bands, yes. The bands are there as a guide more than anything, if you need the full length go for it. This is the beauty of not having positive stops, easier to clean and maintain also can be extends further should you need it.
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How much room for play can i get away with without the snap?
Don`t forget now i`m a thick window cleaner?
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Mr Fox, could you answer my last question please? thank you
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How much room for play can i get away with without the snap?
Don`t forget now i`m a thick window cleaner?
I think we had it over a couple inches with no issues. But obviously if you we're regularly using the pole to the max extension then common sense would dictate you need a bigger pole!
All that matters is our 18/22 will reach 22/26ft in pratice when working, the same as any other poles.
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if i have a phoenix 26ft, can i had sections to make it longer? if yes how many sections can i add? is it easy to add and remove the section?
Sorry Ben, yes you will be able to. Currently having the bigger sizes tooled for more height so you will be able to add extra sections when you need them and go as high as you want.
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My thoughts on the FG 18
Clamps good
Normal extended with brush supplied ,bit bendy.
Normal extended with gardiners super lite ,useable.
Would I extend into blue whip ,no to bendy.
I can't compare it to the clx as this would not be fare.
I would not go any higher than this 18 ft with a FG phoenix
This was bought for a worker to use but I am disappointed in length
I will keep it ,thanks for the return offer ,but in the future I will be asking firm
Questions from any supplier .
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I will never buy any facelift products ever, now I know they are a sister company to WCW.
Had no problems previously with WCW until recently when I orderd a backpack,got it on the third delivery attempt.
Was the fault of the courier, but should have been corrected by WCW on the day I placed order as I phoned to to inform them about an email I recieved and an address issue.
Mistakes happen (even though after phone calls the same mistake happened twice)and I can forgive that,
BUT my gripe is with the arrogant pxxxx manager (I think),did'nt get his name unfortunately.
He handled the situation badly and I will NEVER have dealings with that company again because of his bad unprofessional attidude.
Sorry for going a bit off topic, just need to vent my anger after dealing with WCW calmly and hitting a brick wall.
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I will never buy any facelift products ever, now I know they are a sister company to WCW.
Had no problems previously with WCW until recently when I orderd a backpack,got it on the third delivery attempt.
Was the fault of the courier, but should have been corrected by WCW on the day I placed order as I phoned to to inform them about an email I recieved and an address issue.
Mistakes happen (even though after phone calls the same mistake happened twice)and I can forgive that,
BUT my gripe is with the arrogant pxxxx manager (I think),did'nt get his name unfortunately.
He handled the situation badly and I will NEVER have dealings with that company again because of his bad unprofessional attidude.
Sorry for going a bit off topic, just need to vent my anger after dealing with WCW calmly and hitting a brick wall.
Mikey, sorry to hear this this is the first I've heard of it. Shame you haven't a name as I could start an investigation into what went wrong, etc and deal with the culprit.
Absolutely hate to lose a customer, as you do. All I can do is apologise.
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Fair enough Stephen,
The wee lassie on phone was very polite and good at her job,just a shame the guy I spoke with regarded me with contempt,
Understandable when I'm only a thick window cleaner and he's a manager,only takes one bad experience though ,but it wont happen twice.
Thanks for your reply.
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Fair enough Stephen,
The wee lassie on phone was very polite and good at her job,just a shame the guy I spoke with regarded me with contempt,
Understandable when I'm only a thick window cleaner and he's a manager,only takes one bad experience though ,but it wont happen twice.
Thanks for your reply.
Stephen,are you the manager of WCW???
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No MD, but not a manager. Nice try Ben! :D
I don't get involved in the day to day running of the business. We have a couple of managers. I will look into this on Monday, no worries there.
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Dont you get involved let your manager deal with it! ;D
Can you tell me how long to the nearest inch your 26ft ultralite is please?
Many thanks
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No MD, but not a manager. Nice try Ben! :D
I don't get involved in the day to day running of the business. We have a couple of managers. I will look into this on Monday, no worries there.
;)
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I will never buy any facelift products ever, now I know they are a sister company to WCW.
Had no problems previously with WCW until recently when I orderd a backpack,got it on the third delivery attempt.
Was the fault of the courier, but should have been corrected by WCW on the day I placed order as I phoned to to inform them about an email I recieved and an address issue.
Mistakes happen (even though after phone calls the same mistake happened twice)and I can forgive that,
BUT my gripe is with the arrogant pxxxx manager (I think),did'nt get his name unfortunately.
He handled the situation badly and I will NEVER have dealings with that company again because of his bad unprofessional attidude.
Sorry for going a bit off topic, just need to vent my anger after dealing with WCW calmly and hitting a brick wall.
If you are not happy about WCW, you should send a e-mail to the MD, no need to complain on this forum! And phoenix facelift is not WCW!
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sorry to butt in, as i understand it the carbon poles have an extendable top section for occasional use only? Have i got this right? Is it also included in the overall length of the pole?
Is the ultra-light high modulus like Gardiners Xtreme pole?
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Fibreglass poles are rubbish dont know why anybody makes them anymore .
Defo intrested in the phoenix carbon after viewing videos will look to buy one next.year .
And regarding pole length if they all fall short how come no body has noticed until now . and how come total reach is always 4ft longer than pole are we all hobbits , well I might be at 5ft . Mike.
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cool thread 8)
great piece of info Lee - if that top section is for occasional use only then it's not a proper 26 ft pole
and i will now think twice before buying ( at least until this issue has been made clear )
i would guess the 26 ft will be somewhere around 24 ft 2 inches unless you wish to hold dangerously on a
minimal amount and past the reccomended safety markings ( how will the warranty work here ??? )
i shall go a check by slx 25 tomorrow....
note to facelift/wcw - you have now joined an exclusive club - dragging your company down into the gutters
of an open forum and damaging your company image - quite frankly mr fox you should have just simply
and quicky stated the actual working length and weight of your poles.
Darran
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cool thread 8)
great piece of info Lee - if that top section is for occasional use only then it's not a proper 26 ft pole
and i will now think twice before buying ( at least until this issue has been made clear )
i would guess the 26 ft will be somewhere around 24 ft 2 inches unless you wish to hold dangerously on a
minimal amount and past the reccomended safety markings ( how will the warranty work here ??? )
i shall go a check by slx 25 tomorrow....
note to facelift/wcw - you have now joined an exclusive club - dragging your company down into the gutters
of an open forum and damaging your company image - quite frankly mr fox you should have just simply
and quicky stated the actual working length and weight of your poles.
Darran
Darran, thanks for comments but we have. I'm guessing you haven't actually seen/used a Phoenix as well?
No gutter dragging, just defending ourselves.
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So could you answer my question please?
I haven't seen a Pheonix but I could be interested in the carbon Ultra if I can get proper information.
I've used Gardiners since 2007 and currently use Xtremes so tempt me with yours please. I might give it a go.
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cool thread 8)
great piece of info Lee - if that top section is for occasional use only then it's not a proper 26 ft pole
and i will now think twice before buying ( at least until this issue has been made clear )
i would guess the 26 ft will be somewhere around 24 ft 2 inches unless you wish to hold dangerously on a
minimal amount and past the reccomended safety markings ( how will the warranty work here ??? )
i shall go a check by slx 25 tomorrow....
note to facelift/wcw - you have now joined an exclusive club - dragging your company down into the gutters
of an open forum and damaging your company image - quite frankly mr fox you should have just simply
and quicky stated the actual working length and weight of your poles.
Darran
Darran, thanks for comments but we have. I'm guessing you haven't actually seen/used a Phoenix as well?
No gutter dragging, just defending ourselves.
You didn't answer the question regarding the top section on the 26UL. Is it intended for everyday use?
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this just gets better!
Can i have my question answered regarding the 26ft ultralite please?
Even if you answer with "sorry we are currently reviewing our spec's on this pole and will provide you with the revised spec's shortly"
Please
Please
Pretty Please
I can then wait for the relevant information or take another option.
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Dont you get involved let your manager deal with it! ;D
Can you tell me how long to the nearest inch your 26ft ultralite is please?
Many thanks
Kent, without having one to hand you can get and extended length of around 25 1/2ft before adding neck and brush to make it the full 26ft. This is a rough guess and will confirm Monday, may produce a vid if time permits.
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Thank you Stephen.
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cool thread 8)
great piece of info Lee - if that top section is for occasional use only then it's not a proper 26 ft pole
and i will now think twice before buying ( at least until this issue has been made clear )
i would guess the 26 ft will be somewhere around 24 ft 2 inches unless you wish to hold dangerously on a
minimal amount and past the reccomended safety markings ( how will the warranty work here ??? )
i shall go a check by slx 25 tomorrow....
note to facelift/wcw - you have now joined an exclusive club - dragging your company down into the gutters
of an open forum and damaging your company image - quite frankly mr fox you should have just simply
and quicky stated the actual working length and weight of your poles.
Darran
Darran, thanks for comments but we have. I'm guessing you haven't actually seen/used a Phoenix as well?
No gutter dragging, just defending ourselves.
You didn't answer the question regarding the top section on the 26UL. Is it intended for everyday use?
Why won't you answer this question?
Everytime somone asks a question that may put people off your pole you ignore the questions.
For example I asked the question when the pole first came out, does th gardiner gooses neck fit, there was no reply to this question, then after 3-4 days mike had to admit it didnts,
Then kentkleen just wants to know the exact lenght of the 26UL, again no answer, or a reply like I havnt got the pole to hand, you obviously know full well that it isn't 26ft, otherwise you would have answered straight away.
Then there is the question regarding the top section of the 26UL, is it only for occasional use? Again no answer, why is this?
You obviously read all the comments on here because you are constantly online, so why not just answer any question regarding your poles wether it puts people off or not, that is customer service.
Put all the facts up you like about gardiners to try and win people over, but everyone on here knows that Alex would answer any question without hesitation even if it was to the detriment of a sale.
Before you ask I have tried the pheonix pole, and was very impresses, but the way you have handled yourself on here, although you have not been rude to anyone, and am sure you are decent bloke, has put me off buying one, if you can't answer simple questions, what are you going to be like when there is a problem, just ignore it?
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Lee, sorry for delays in replies. There are loads of threads, I think I've answered the questions somewhere.
Sorry haven't got exact length of UL26 it is under 26ft without brush head, etc around 25 1/2ft.
I will have a complete FAQ soon to post or link to the forum.
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Darran, thanks for comments but we have. I'm guessing you haven't actually seen/used a Phoenix as well?
No i'm stuck way over in Norfolk and have only seen the vid's and the ad's - i liked what i saw esp. the clamping system
feel free to send be a pole for a 4 week trial and i'd be happy to post an in depth review - like the one's i have done
for various brushes etc..
As others have found when promoting products on here it can be all to easy to get involved in side issues -
mainly because you love and believe in your product however this can vome across badly and damage your company
image esp. after drinking red wine ;)
i currently use Gardiners poles and brushes because they are the best, but more than happy to use other brands if they
are better quality or help me clean better/faster ( for a time i used Aerial brushes - as they were better than superlites -
but Alex addressed this and now his newer SL's and the extremes are top again if your pole or the elite pole is better than
gardiners then i would be in )
Darran
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From what I read the ul26 is only 26 ft for occasional use.
How occasional I don't know,but did ask. The first section is a inner
Section NOT to be used at all times,so my thinking is the pole can get to
26 ft but for occasional use.
Think I got that right Mr fox
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From what I read the ul26 is only 26 ft for occasional use.
How occasional I don't know,but did ask. The first section is a inner
Section NOT to be used at all times,so my thinking is the pole can get to
26 ft but for occasional use.
Think I got that right Mr fox
By the look of it we may never know!! ???
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From what I read the ul26 is only 26 ft for occasional use.
How occasional I don't know,but did ask. The first section is a inner
Section NOT to be used at all times,so my thinking is the pole can get to
26 ft but for occasional use.
Think I got that right Mr fox
Wightsurf, that's pretty much the idea behind it. That being said, you can use the product in any way you want. In all honesty I would suggest if you need a 25+ pole day in day out got for a bigger pole to cover yourself.
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From what I read the ul26 is only 26 ft for occasional use.
How occasional I don't know,but did ask. The first section is a inner
Section NOT to be used at all times,so my thinking is the pole can get to
26 ft but for occasional use.
Think I got that right Mr fox
Wightsurf, that's pretty much the idea behind it. That being said, you can use the product in any way you want. In all honesty I would suggest if you need a 25+ pole day in day out got for a bigger pole to cover yourself.
So is it capable of being used everyday? In an earlier post you said you can, but now you said to get a bigger pole to "cover yourself".
Please give us a definite answer
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Think we are getting there . Stephen just one question what is the benefit of having the small extension other than giving some extra height .
Surely this will add extra weight to the end of the pole and has this been tested say cleaning a window over a conny roof , As this were the extra weight may affect the user i have some compact work and they all have connys to clean over and have to admit even using a heavier brush over 4 hrs you can feel the strain .
Thanks Mike
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From what I read the ul26 is only 26 ft for occasional use.
How occasional I don't know,but did ask. The first section is a inner
Section NOT to be used at all times,so my thinking is the pole can get to
26 ft but for occasional use.
Think I got that right Mr fox
Wightsurf, that's pretty much the idea behind it. That being said, you can use the product in any way you want. In all honesty I would suggest if you need a 25+ pole day in day out got for a bigger pole to cover yourself.
So is it capable of being used everyday? In an earlier post you said you can, but now you said to get a bigger pole to "cover yourself".
Please give us a definite answer
Yes, you can use it everyday. Being a thinner, lighter section when fully extended it will have more flex that other sections, that is why I suggest, for more frequent work at that height (day in day out) go with a longer pole. That is just my preference.
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Yes, you can use it everyday. Being a thinner, lighter section when fully extended it will have more flex that other sections, that is why I suggest, for more frequent work at that height (day in day out) go with a longer pole. That is just my preference.
then surely you would have been better promoting this as a 22ft + - rather than go head to head with a dedicated 25 ft
go head to with a 22ft but promote this 'secret' extention piece allowing occasional use at 26 ft ?? then have a 25/26 ft pole
that can on occasion do 29/30 ft - that would be really appealing 8)
Darran
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I think I have already said it, but that is why the video comparison isn't good, they should have put either the two 22ft poles side by side, or waited until they produce a dedicated 25/6 foot pole instead!
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To clarify,
The video featured Phoenix 26' Ultralite against the SLX 25' initially...
The video then featured the "dedicated" Phoenix 25' against the SLX 25'
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To clarify,
The video featured Phoenix 26' Ultralite against the SLX 25' initially...
The video then featured the "dedicated" Phoenix 25' against the SLX 25'
Does the dedicated 25 still have the small top section? Or an extra base section?
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Would the insert fit into any phoenix pole ?
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No, but could have which would take it to a 30ft.
The Phoenix 25ft (as at the end of the vid) is same pole sizes as the SLX25.
As Mike said there are two poles in the vid, the UL26 and the Phoenix X 25. The title cards tell you which is which.
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Would the insert fit into any phoenix pole ?
Yes. Same tube sizes.
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How much for a section as this would be handy and intersting experiment .
As I have the 18 FG but very few jobs for the nipper at above this.
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Wightsurf, email me your details and I can send you out some trial versions to get your feedback.
fox@faceliftcleaning.com
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Email sent
Thank you for this.
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Steve I can trial one
If I like it I will buy some
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Would also like to trial the longer poles ?
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Would also like to trial the longer poles ?
Sure, can you drop me an email - I'll lose track otherwise!
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saw one of facelifts poles in the impact 43 van when on the course last week, looks and feels like a very good pole if these wear well when in use then i would say they are very comparable in qaulity to gardners, i do think their longer poles should have propper stops when extending for safety reasons
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Steve I can trial one
If I like it I will buy some
Dave, these guys already have the Phoenix this is the extra section part. Get a Phoenix and I'll send you one!
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Hi Steve
I will be in touch
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Dont like positive stops on sections makes it far eaiser to remove and add sections my Elite pole has painted markers on never had any probs and the markers are still visible if a little worn after 18 months . Mike
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You Tube The Phoenix is rising, by J. Racenstein.Co
They show you the top section, small dia. with quite a large hole for the tube. I would suspect that this would be the weakest part, as it must be about 50% of the dia.
And you can't fit an aquadapter!! Perhaps there will be yet another aquadapter on the drawing board.
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Mr Fox, this lacquer stuff that's applied to your poles, is it sprayed on afterwards, can we purchase it to refurbish the pole?
Why is the top clamp red? Is it dangerous?
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Mr Fox, this lacquer stuff that's applied to your poles, is it sprayed on afterwards, can we purchase it to refurbish the pole?
Why is the top clamp red? Is it dangerous?
Mark, currently this is a factory based process but will enquire on how to take it further.
As for the red clamp, touch it and die.
In all seriousness, It's there to alert you when opening it the part is different in some way to a standard section. Be it the ultra-lite section, quick release neck or carbon gooseneck for example. Besides that we think it looks pretty cool!