Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Craggs on October 25, 2012, 11:06:50 pm
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4609701/Window-cleaner-works-40ft-up-with-no-safety-harness.html
:o
You can see the video for yourself, very brave man
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OMG!!! :o :o :o
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thats franky bad boy ;D ;D
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Who doesn't read what already been posted then... ;D
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=160132.0
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if that were late 70s and early 80s knowone would batter a eyelid funny how things change plus its saver than a ladder,you will get some daft fooker walking into your ladders reading paper
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thats franky bad boy ;D ;D
ive been told to say nothing by my solictor ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4609701/Window-cleaner-works-40ft-up-with-no-safety-harness.html
:o
You can see the video for yourself, very brave man
Cant see any bravery ... lots of stupidity perhaps .. not worth dying for at any price.
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he only did it that way cause th fed-ex van was a little late with delivery of sl2
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Who doesn't read what already been posted then... ;D
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=160132.0
Loads apparently ;D
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That was on the Facebook window cleaners page ages ago. We got Andrew Willis to report him to health & safety (Andrew has the contacts), and a bunch of us sent e-mails to the hotel - none of us got a reply though,..
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That was on the Facebook window cleaners page ages ago. We got Andrew Willis to report him to health & safety (Andrew has the contacts), and a bunch of us sent e-mails to the hotel - none of us got a reply though,..
Funny you should say that...
We've just had BBC News on the phone asking to interview Andy for the 6 o'clock news tonight!
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Interesting subject this. Because of the height involved it looks shocking. At the end of the day though if you fall off your ladder at second storey height onto concrete the results could be pretty similar I would imagine. So the danger level is probably fairly similar.
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Done similar myself in the past.
Biggest criticism - not much detailing was there? ;D ;D
G.
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This indeed was the final bit of news on the BBC tonight. I don't think the same guy will be doing them next month that's for sure.
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I'm being interviewed by our local radio station on Monday morning off the back of this guys actions.
All i can say is, thanks for the free publicity whoever you are. :D
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unbelievable!!
thats 30ft max ;D
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Looking back its highly stupid but I when I started in '98 I used to walk along adjoining ledges to 3, 3rd floor flats, they were crazy days cleaning any window by any method.
Ps your right about the detailing Granny!
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have done similar in the past but you dont get older without gettimg wiser. my knees were knocking up two part last week.
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cleaned like that for 20 years
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worry about your own business and stop reporting someone minding his own business, can't believe someone reported him to H&S and emailed the hotel ???
get a life lads
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worry about your own business and stop reporting someone minding his own business, can't believe someone reported him to H&S and emailed the hotel ???
get a life lads
FFS Stuart,.. are you serious?
If that numpty had fallen or even dropped his squeegee - he could have killed an innocent passer by. What if you're mrs & little uns had been walking underneath & something happened??
THAT is why I made it my business!
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the squeegie or him would land on the balcony on the first floor, and if he did it correctly with harness etc he could still drop a squeegie
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the squeegie or him would land on the balcony on the first floor, and if he did it correctly with harness etc he could still drop a squeegie
What a load of Bollokcs ???
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That was on the Facebook window cleaners page ages ago. We got Andrew Willis to report him to health & safety (Andrew has the contacts), and a bunch of us sent e-mails to the hotel - none of us got a reply though,..
sorry but thats pure jobsworth
hang around pubs spotting drink drivers, that's worth while
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the squeegie or him would land on the balcony on the first floor, and if he did it correctly with harness etc he could still drop a squeegie
What a load of Bollokcs ???
what part, I agree he would probably bounce from the balcony and hit ground floor, stand by my squeegie though :P I know I have done it, dropped the squeegie that is, that balcony on the first floor is big enough to put a 2 meter double pointer on though, they are not as tight as you think
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I won't read The Sun, so I've not seen it.
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He told me after this stunt he has been offered a job in next 007 movie with a 5 figure salary, so not bad for a days work ;D ;D
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I won't read The Sun, so I've not seen it.
watch it here then ;D
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2222890/Daredevil-window-cleaner-balances-floor-ledge-safety-harness-climbing-window.html
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I won't read The Sun, so I've not seen it.
watch it here then ;D
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2222890/Daredevil-window-cleaner-balances-floor-ledge-safety-harness-climbing-window.html
I won't read The.......... ;D.
I knew someone would put another link up. You wouldn't let me down, young Mac ;).
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Griff, get with it. It's now 2012. ;D
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The BBC have now shown the footage. I wouldn't like to be in that blokes shoes.
Is this wfp'er on the video anyone from this forum?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20105872
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Did anyone get hurt? Did anyone die?
Nope, leave him to it if hes happy
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Griff, get with it. It's now 2012. ;D
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The BBC have now shown the footage. I wouldn't like to be in that blokes shoes.
Is this wfp'er on the video anyone from this forum?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20105872
all very well using wfp as I do, but how would he do the bottom pains on the balcony's? top one and bottom one, and next time I see a wfp operator working at 40 or 80 foot should I report him for not cordoning off that distance in any direction, I don't think I will, and next time I see a ledge worker I will not report him either, I will do my my work safely and worry about myself
sorry ross that was not aimed at you, I just picked your video
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Isn't grassing still grassing when your talking about window cleaners then?
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i was in rio three years ago and saw i guy doing exactly the same and he must have been at 15 storeys up !
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this was common practice 30yrs ago for a number of reasons firstly everybody did it this way secondly it was a lot easier and quicker to climb onto ledges than hump a big ladder about and waste time climbing it and thirdly businesses would not pay for costly hire of cherrypickers for a small window cleaning job, i have done this sort of work at much higher heights and on much thinner ledges and nobody would have bat an eyelid but lets face it there is no need to work like this today the first three floors could easily of been accessed by WFP with a decent gooseneck and the fourth floor could of been cleaned from inside the balcony without climbing over to the exterior of it. when younger i used to enjoy the challenge of working that way but lets face it if you fell you where dead or badly crippled and getting a window clean is not worth such a sacrifice, i hope the cleaner in question can be educated to work safer in future.
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That was on the Facebook window cleaners page ages ago. We got Andrew Willis to report him to health & safety (Andrew has the contacts), and a bunch of us sent e-mails to the hotel - none of us got a reply though,..
[/quote
grass]
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That was on the Facebook window cleaners page ages ago. We got Andrew Willis to report him to health & safety (Andrew has the contacts), and a bunch of us sent e-mails to the hotel - none of us got a reply though,..
grass
Idiot
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That was on the Facebook window cleaners page ages ago. We got Andrew Willis to report him to health & safety (Andrew has the contacts), and a bunch of us sent e-mails to the hotel - none of us got a reply though,..
[/quote
grass]
I feel like a character from the Sweeney :)
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That was on the Facebook window cleaners page ages ago. We got Andrew Willis to report him to health & safety (Andrew has the contacts), and a bunch of us sent e-mails to the hotel - none of us got a reply though,..
sorry but thats pure jobsworth
hang around pubs spotting drink drivers, that's worth while
Grass and a jobs worth, :'(
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Well done to the small group that got on the case a couple of weeks back, the EHO are investigating and hopefully will take this through to a full prosecution, including the property owner, window cleaning company and the individual window cleaner.
Lots of comments recently on how to clean this job, MEWPS, water fed pole etc, unless I am over looking the obvious these windows can be cleaned quite easily from inside the building as they are Sash design.
Not sure how you could effectively create a safety exclusion zone around your work area on that junction when using water fed pole anyway.
Interesting news clip last night on BBC News at Six, they show an example of a local window cleaner using a water fed pole at height as an example of how to clean windows safely and he has no signs, cones or safety controls in place. Excellent great example.
On a positive note, well done Mark at Gleaming Insurance for stepping in at the last moment and represent the window cleaning industry. Did us proud.
Lastly the news clip stated the FWC have advised they are going to report the matter to the HSE, sorry on this your about Two weeks too late ::)
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the squeegie or him would land on the balcony on the first floor, and if he did it correctly with harness etc he could still drop a squeegie
The squeegee and mop have holes in the handles. That's so as they can be secured to your body harness. When doing roped access or working using a harness, every item of equipment, except cloths, must be securely attached to the harness or body belt.
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aye I know ross
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Lots of comments recently on how to clean this job, MEWPS, water fed pole etc, unless I am over looking the obvious these windows can be cleaned quite easily from inside the building as they are Sash design.
Not sure how you could effectively create a safety exclusion zone around your work area on that junction when using water fed pole anyway.
you are right andrew these are sash windows but in most circumstances the windows usually have desks and computers in front of them so doing them from inside makes it impossible or just as unsafe, you also mention creating a safety exclusion zone when using WFP i know this is something you think should be done but is this in legislation yet as i dont know any who follow this practice or as discussed before any known injuries from a pole dropping on someone
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So, what would be the most cost effective, legal and safe way to clean these windows?
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We've just had BBC News on the phone asking to interview Andy for the 6 o'clock news tonight!
But you weren't on
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We've just had BBC News on the phone asking to interview Andy for the 6 o'clock news tonight!
But you weren't on
Good point Nick,
On the day the team in the office got a call from the BBC, they wanted to send out a crew to film an interview, I was in Leeds training and my phone is always off when in a workshop delivering the QCF training for window cleaners. The Impact43 team did not want to commit to the BBC before I agreed and by the time I picked up my messages it was to late.
We have all talked about this and if an opportunity like this comes along again I have said agree and I will work around them. I don’t feel I would have said anything more than Mark at Gleeming Insurance, perhaps I would have quoted that Training could play a big part in giving the window cleaner information and sound knowledge of the laws so he could make sensible decisions in the future
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Andrew, would you care to answer my question from 3 posts above ^^^^.
I realise it may not be an accurate assessment of the job, because you cannot see all the risks involved from a picture/video. Just curious as to the best method for carrying out such a job.
Regards,
Lance
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Andrew, would you care to answer my question from 3 posts above ^^^^.
I realise it may not be an accurate assessment of the job, because you cannot see all the risks involved from a picture/video. Just curious as to the best method for carrying out such a job.
Regards,
Lance
Hi Lance, was just working on it :)
There is a lot of legislation that will control the way this building is cleaned and how all parties can protect themselves and others including from prosecution.
To answer your post
I would clean these from inside
Sash windows are designed so that you can position the units so that all areas of external glass can be cleaned, it can be time consuming.
The first floor windows may need the window cleaner to position themselves outside on the balcony to external glass easily, if so the property owner will need to fit safety anchors on the inside of the property, and the window cleaner to operate correct PPE (restraint fall protection)
The duty holder will need to make sure the windows are correctly maintained and that they are not painted and any units sticking, (common fault,) windows will need to be clear from furniture or an arrangement to move items.
When cleaning external glass they need to tether tools.
That’s it as I see it, 8)
The following legislation makes it hard for us to use poles and equipment on this building, and with it being on a junction
For the benefit of others
These are the main laws that then govern activity
The duty holder (property owner) legally "must provide me with the ability to clean windows safely"
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/3004/regulation/16/made
The key legislation Health and Safety at Work Act 1974
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/37
Employers to employees, others basically have a legal duty to proctect one and other, included in this is the most basic right of safe access and egress,
RE PUWER everyone needs to be trained in the use of a pole
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/2306/regulation/9/made
Including sole trader, self-employed
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/2306/regulation/3/made
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/2306/regulation/7/made
(2) The employer shall ensure that the persons designated for the purposes of sub-paragraph (b) of paragraph (1) have received adequate training related to any operations in respect of which they have been so designated.
Application
3.—(1) These Regulations shall apply—
(3) The requirements imposed by these Regulations on an employer shall also apply—
(a) to a self-employed person, in respect of work equipment he uses at work;
Controls when using work equipment
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/2306/regulation/17/made
90% of window cleaners I work with don’t have previous training or certification
I am pleased that over the last year a majority get trained and certificated.
Working at Height Regulation 2005
Dropping a water fed pole
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/735/regulation/10/made
Falling objects
10.—(1) Every employer shall, where necessary to prevent injury to any person, take suitable and sufficient steps to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, the fall of any material or object.
(2) Where it is not reasonably practicable to comply with the requirements of paragraph (1), every employer shall take suitable and sufficient steps to prevent any person being struck by any falling material or object, which is liable to cause personal injury.
The window cleaner therefore is going to have to look at what controls he puts in place, a couple of cones is not going to prevent, you would be looking at cones tape, etc a clear safety demarcation zone.
Look I could list and list, its a mine field,
What I can say is that within the City and Guilds level1 & level 2 over the Four workshops we try and cover all this, give window cleaners good information so they can go away and make sound decisions.
It’s not for everyone, you can see by some of the posts we get on clean it up,
Regards
Andy
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Sorry but havent you got anything better to do
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probably 80% of my whole work is sash windows & almost NONE of them are designed to be cleaned from the inside. ???
The only ones that can be done this way are either VERY modern or have been hinged professionally.
I would say your suggestion to clean from the inside is a none starter, or are sash windows different down south?
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probably 80% of my whole work is sash windows & almost NONE of them are designed to be cleaned from the inside. ???
The only ones that can be done this way are either VERY modern or have been hinged professionally.
I would say your suggestion to clean from the inside is a none starter, or are sash windows different down south?
Your right there, one slide up, one down, so your basically saying hang out of the window to clean it?
Youd have to put yourself in a right awkward and dangerous position to clean then from inside...your safer outside on the ledge!
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probably 80% of my whole work is sash windows & almost NONE of them are designed to be cleaned from the inside. ???
The only ones that can be done this way are either VERY modern or have been hinged professionally.
I would say your suggestion to clean from the inside is a none starter, or are sash windows different down south?
Live in Lincolnshire, ;D Where are you based, as I am happy if we have a workshop in your area to come out and show you how to clean a Sash window
thats not me being funny
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probably 80% of my whole work is sash windows & almost NONE of them are designed to be cleaned from the inside. ???
The only ones that can be done this way are either VERY modern or have been hinged professionally.
I would say your suggestion to clean from the inside is a none starter, or are sash windows different down south?
Your right there, one slide up, one down, so your basically saying hang out of the window to clean it?
Youd have to put yourself in a right awkward and dangerous position to clean then from inside...your safer outside on the ledge!
Covered in my post
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Sorry but havent you got anything better to do
Yes, forgot the clocks went back and waiting for Mrs Willis, so putting a little bit into Clean It Up
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the guy looked about 38? certainly was well experienced and not a novice
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Sorry but havent you got anything better to do
Yes, forgot the clocks went back and waiting for Mrs Willis, so putting a little bit into Clean It Up
Im sorry Andy, im not picking on you, if this is what you do then this is what you do. I just think health and safety is a joke, yes it does implement some good, but most of it is just nonsense, i cant help but think you (all h and s) havent got anything better to do.
That man has probably been cleaning those windows like that for years, he looked like he'd done it before...he wasnt harming anyone, no one got hurt, yeh ok maybe a harness would of helped but how long would that of taken him clipping on and un clipping, those ledges look pretty big to me to. I can see no harm in what hes done, id still clean like that today no problem. Yeh if he was barely gripping onto a ledge and not much for him to stand on id think fair enough thats dangerous. But not this chap.
Hes out, not bothering anyone, working earning a living and now because certain people have nothing better to do hes probably in a whole heap of trouble! Seriously take a step back for a minute and think about it. More time should be spent on the people who are sat at home doing sod all taking our money that WE work for.
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Sorry but havent you got anything better to do
Yes, forgot the clocks went back and waiting for Mrs Willis, so putting a little bit into Clean It Up
Im sorry Andy, im not picking on you, if this is what you do then this is what you do. I just think health and safety is a joke, yes it does implement some good, but most of it is just nonsense, i cant help but think you (all h and s) havent got anything better to do.
That man has probably been cleaning those windows like that for years, he looked like he'd done it before...he wasnt harming anyone, no one got hurt, yeh ok maybe a harness would of helped but how long would that of taken him clipping on and un clipping, those ledges look pretty big to me to. I can see no harm in what hes done, id still clean like that today no problem. Yeh if he was barely gripping onto a ledge and not much for him to stand on id think fair enough thats dangerous. But not this chap.
Hes out, not bothering anyone, working earning a living and now because certain people have nothing better to do hes probably in a whole heap of trouble! Seriously take a step back for a minute and think about it. More time should be spent on the people who are sat at home doing sod all taking our money that WE work for.
Sorry don't agree with your post
Put the name of the person you love the most in your next post
Then imagine this guy had fallen off that building and killed them
Would you shrug it off and quote what you have put on here? ::)
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...yeh but he didnt
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...yeh but he didnt
Just a point in the last couple of minutes have you changed your profile tag "Three times
My name is clear, who I am, what I do, how about you,
its easy on Clean It Up to make comments
I would question if you had to put your real name on here, company, website, etc some people comments would be different
However as always I respect everybody's personal views, its just some I don't share, over and out, thats me done for the day
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surprised it keeps being mentioned what if he fell onto a loved one
odds of him falling square onto somebody who was passing by must be millions to 1 .
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Im in the mood for changing my name, ;D up to me aint it, im just having a laugh. Up to you if you want to put your real name on. Everyone knows who i am on here, ive got nothing to hide, i regularly change my name on here, just for comedy value. Im out to have a laugh in life Andy. Not worry about what other people are doing. Just annoys me that some people are out to ruin it for others when i can see theyve done no harm.
Like i said, im not picking on you, but you do need to take a step back and think about it. Sometimes you can get caught up in it all, seems to me like youve just "got one over" on this bloke.
Lets kiss and make up ;)
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i honestly think it was very unsafe for the windows to be cleaned the way they where and better ways are definately available, i personally has i have already said would use wfp first 3 floors and the top floor from within balcony without climbing over, andrew disagrees with this and points out the risk of dropping the pole on someone hence needing to cordon off a designated work area this is a good point but if was carried out on all work would make the use of wfp impossible for use in most areas ie how do you cordon off a fall area if working near a road this is where health and safety becomes a joke, andrew mentions cleaning the sash windows from inside again this is something that is possible and have done many times but again the truth is in reality is 90% of the time impracticle due to furniture, sticking due to paint or swollen frames and even not being balanced correctly so the panels drop down when opened which can cause trapped hands and even shattered glass that can fall on passers by, my point is whatever method is chosen there are risks and in my view the risk of a falling pole is minimal providing operater is experienced and weather conditions are taken into consideration
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probably 80% of my whole work is sash windows & almost NONE of them are designed to be cleaned from the inside. ???
The only ones that can be done this way are either VERY modern or have been hinged professionally.
I would say your suggestion to clean from the inside is a none starter, or are sash windows different down south?
Live in Lincolnshire, ;D Where are you based, as I am happy if we have a workshop in your area to come out and show you how to clean a Sash window
thats not me being funny
Please explain how to do this when each (top & bottom) section is 6ft + in height?
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probably 80% of my whole work is sash windows & almost NONE of them are designed to be cleaned from the inside. ???
The only ones that can be done this way are either VERY modern or have been hinged professionally.
I would say your suggestion to clean from the inside is a none starter, or are sash windows different down south?
Live in Lincolnshire, ;D Where are you based, as I am happy if we have a workshop in your area to come out and show you how to clean a Sash window
thats not me being funny
Please explain how to do this when each (top & bottom) section is 6ft + in height?
you can't, I explained this on another post, as you rightly said the only way is to stand on the ledge to get the upper glass
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probably 80% of my whole work is sash windows & almost NONE of them are designed to be cleaned from the inside. ???
The only ones that can be done this way are either VERY modern or have been hinged professionally.
I would say your suggestion to clean from the inside is a none starter, or are sash windows different down south?
Live in Lincolnshire, ;D Where are you based, as I am happy if we have a workshop in your area to come out and show you how to clean a Sash window
thats not me being funny
Please explain how to do this when each (top & bottom) section is 6ft + in height?
you can't, I explained this on another post, as you rightly said the only way is to stand on the ledge to get the upper glass
Agreed. ;)
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I reckon its an after hours cherry picker job,..
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Sorry but havent you got anything better to do
Yes, forgot the clocks went back and waiting for Mrs Willis, so putting a little bit into Clean It Up
Im sorry Andy, im not picking on you, if this is what you do then this is what you do. I just think health and safety is a joke, yes it does implement some good, but most of it is just nonsense, i cant help but think you (all h and s) havent got anything better to do.
That man has probably been cleaning those windows like that for years, he looked like he'd done it before...he wasnt harming anyone, no one got hurt, yeh ok maybe a harness would of helped but how long would that of taken him clipping on and un clipping, those ledges look pretty big to me to. I can see no harm in what hes done, id still clean like that today no problem. Yeh if he was barely gripping onto a ledge and not much for him to stand on id think fair enough thats dangerous. But not this chap.
Hes out, not bothering anyone, working earning a living and now because certain people have nothing better to do hes probably in a whole heap of trouble! Seriously take a step back for a minute and think about it. More time should be spent on the people who are sat at home doing sod all taking our money that WE work for.
Sorry don't agree with your post
Put the name of the person you love the most in your next post
Then imagine this guy had fallen off that building and killed them
Would you shrug it off and quote what you have put on here? ::)
it was me,now can you come to bristol or bath and give me a free course place ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I reckon its an after hours cherry picker job,..
using a cherrypicker would add £100s to the price of the job and in my opinion you are still working at height when this can be avoided by using WFP but i do take your point that it could be cleaned after hours or may be early morning
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Vested interest.
My wife works for an IT company. One of their divisions just has to produce a risk assessment in order to erect a stand at an exhibition. All the stand had was a couple of pull up banners. When she told me, I said well that's just the way it is now. She said it was the only exhibition they had ever had to do this with. I am guessing that they just had consultants like the one above in.
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I reckon its an after hours cherry picker job,..
have you ever been round the back of one of these jobs? you couldn't a cherry picker anyway near it and as for the front in a city centre there is not an out of hours really
for the guy who said wfp it, you can some of the windows but not them all, the ones I have are done monthly and are done inside and out and there are thousands of these buildings, imagine thousands of cherry pickers across every city centre ???
they can be cleaned safely without doing what that guy did, but I will not judge him as he has probably did it that way for years, and it isn't half as bad as it looks
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every time something comes up that people have to think about ie a little bit of thought the fasion police step in with there cherry pickers
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the fasion police step in with there cherry pickers
You mean Winklepickers?
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Thanks for the response Andrew.
So, it seems a job like this is a complete ball ache, whichever method of cleaning you choose to undertake. Either breaking health and safety legislation or the bank balance if the customer.
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I wonder how much he was being paid for this ?
I clean many sash windows from inside and it appears many on here hate cleaning from inside - customer having to be in, furniture in way etc. (they normally want double the price too).
In an ideal world, all sash style windows would open as they are meant to and be maintained but they are not, painted stuck, warped frames, broken sash cords etc.
If this guy could have cleaned it safely from inside as suggested, it would have taken him so much longer, would the hotel have paid that added expense ?
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I wonder how much he was being paid for this ?
I clean many sash windows from inside and it appears many on here hate cleaning from inside - customer having to be in, furniture in way etc. (they normally want double the price too).
In an ideal world, all sash style windows would open as they are meant to and be maintained but they are not, painted stuck, warped frames, broken sash cords etc.
If this guy could have cleaned it safely from inside as suggested, it would have taken him so much longer, would the hotel have paid that added expense ?
Probably not then, but after they have all been prosecuted, then yes they will in future - if they are still around that is.
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If the windows cannot be cleaned safely and in a practical manner, then they don't get cleaned. It's a simple as that.