Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Tony Edwards on October 16, 2012, 04:00:36 pm

Title: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Tony Edwards on October 16, 2012, 04:00:36 pm

Did a first clean today. £20 6 weekly so charged £40 first clean.

When I quoted the windows were filthy but as I started I noticed all the windows covered in paint spots.

I explained to the customer and said that i would need to scrape the windows but not to worry the glass wont get scratched.

She said fine and I carried on. As i was cleaning the windows noticed that lots of the panes were scratched all ready but I carried on. Finished the job, custy all happy paid me and extra £10 tip

Now she calls and says I have scratched the glass ! There was no way I did at all

Where do I stand ?
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: andyM on October 16, 2012, 04:16:17 pm
If ever there is paint or cement etc. on windows before I touch them I explain to the custie that it's not "normal"
for me to have to remove such mess.
I stir it up a bit by saying whoever left the windows in that state (painter, carpenter, brickie) should have cleaned up after themselves and never walked away leaving the job in that mess.  :-X
However I can help the custie out of this predicament by removing the mess which will require the use of a scraper.
It will take extra time to do and will have to add this "extra" to the price of the job.
I also tell them there is a very small risk that the glass could be scratched.
Then I wait for their reply.
99% of the time they tell me to go ahead. As long as it's done properly everything should be fine but I have covered myself by telling them of the risk upfront.
Any other scratches/damage which was there previously should be highlighted to the custie.
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on October 16, 2012, 04:28:12 pm
you get a lot of that in window cleaning  ;D
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Tony Edwards on October 16, 2012, 04:38:11 pm


Says she wants the patio doors replacing which cost her £8000 last year!

 Despite the fact that she admitted that they hadnt been cleaned for over a year and you couldnt hardly seen out of them !!
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: andyM on October 16, 2012, 04:43:48 pm


Says she wants the patio doors replacing which cost her £8000 last year!
 Despite the fact that she admitted that they hadnt been cleaned for over a year and you couldnt hardly seen out of them !!

Maybe you should consider emigrating? or at least change your identity and go on the run.  ;D
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Klean07 on October 16, 2012, 04:44:43 pm
Hope you can run fast!!
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on October 16, 2012, 04:45:13 pm
call ya self brodex  ;)
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: robertphil on October 16, 2012, 04:45:31 pm
its a real pity you mentioned no scratching as thatd likely put the scratching idea in her head

if i was you id totally ignore her,dont text or write Anything that she could later use against you .    if she does happen to ring you id personally go down the quick sharp shock route and stick a few F "s into her . now is not a time to be meek and friendly,better to go on the offensive is my tip
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Tony Edwards on October 16, 2012, 04:52:35 pm


Her word against mine. Apart from the fact I know I didnt do it.

They do try it on !!
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Ian101 on October 16, 2012, 04:54:33 pm
I stopped carrying scrapers 12 months ago as I dont want to chance scratching anyones glass.

If you didnt do it then stick to your guns its up to her to prove you did do it.

If you did do it then I take it you have adequate insurance so let them sort it out but she prob wont get far with them.

Good luck !  
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on October 16, 2012, 05:01:27 pm
I always inspect for damage before a first clean or one off to void myself of liability. not being clever just saying! although its not always possible to see all damage!
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Paul H on October 16, 2012, 05:08:10 pm
Tell her to crack on .. it was already there (although shouldve pointed it out) and its only showing up now as you have cleaned them properly

Go back and do a demo of the process you used... and prove your methods technique and eqiupement arent at fault...so therefore no way did you or could you scratch the glass..





Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on October 16, 2012, 05:13:27 pm
Hmmm. i feel for you mate i really do. think what i would do is stick to your guns if you didnt do it and you know you didnt do it! DOnt admit your liable ever!

plus i would emagine the glass in one side of a patio door is not gonna cost thousands! you can eplace the glass in the door on its own cant you lads?

If this ever happens to me and i am at fualt i would try and replace jst the glass
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: robbo333 on October 16, 2012, 05:16:58 pm
Tell her to crack on .. it was already there (although shouldve pointed it out) and its only showing up now as you have cleaned them properly

Go back and do a demo of the process you used... and prove your methods technique and eqiupement arent at fault...so therefore no way did you or could you scratch the glass..


Great idea. Also, are they the type of scratches that could have been made with a scraper? Or are they very long scratches?. Did you scrape all the windows? If you find scratches on windows that you haven't even scraped then you've proved your point. In any event, stand your ground.



Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: richard jagger on October 16, 2012, 05:35:14 pm
What kind of glass cost 8 grand and then they never clean it? ??? ???
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: gary999 on October 16, 2012, 05:39:12 pm
removing paint fron glass is another oneof those things i just dont do
if they ask i tell them my insurance doesnt cover me for scraping paint
or spraying harsh chemicals onto the glass so unfortunately i cant offer that service

if it doesnt come off with water and a brush its staying there and if they arenot happy
with this they can go elsewhere.

feel for you mate,stick to your guns,tell her the reason she didnt see the scratches before
was because her windows were so filthy :)
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Tony Edwards on October 16, 2012, 06:16:05 pm
She can try it on all she wants. She saw the time I was taking to remove the paint and agreed to me taking longer to remove it and paid me extra
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: ben M on October 16, 2012, 09:19:14 pm
have you got an insurance in case?
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: jsb on October 17, 2012, 08:28:23 am
just  a thought , since this has never happened to me .

if you say to her i didnt scratch the glass and she says you did ., what can she actually do ,is there a legal process .

thanks
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Ian101 on October 17, 2012, 09:02:25 am
just  a thought , since this has never happened to me .

if you say to her i didnt scratch the glass and she says you did ., what can she actually do ,is there a legal process .

thanks

She can demand money
You say no
She sends u a letter
you say no / ignore
she goes to small claims court (prob called summit else these days)
you turn up on day and win ..... happy days

You dont turn up so loose automatically or you turn up and loose
court makes judgement
you dont pay
she goes back to court for baliff order

think thats about it really
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Tony Edwards on October 17, 2012, 12:16:46 pm


Says she is going to sue me !

Bring it on, I did not damage her property and I have no assets in my name.
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: ben M on October 17, 2012, 12:42:42 pm
have you got an insurance? if yes contact them and don't worry about it anymore!
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Tony Edwards on October 17, 2012, 12:53:57 pm


I have but no way I am putting this thru my insurance for a chance like this

If she wants to go thru insurance let her go down the legal route
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on October 17, 2012, 06:46:52 pm


Says she is going to sue me !

Bring it on, I did not damage her property and I have no assets in my name.
ive had this said to me before! nothing ever came of it!
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Perfect Windows on October 17, 2012, 08:50:47 pm

She can demand money
You say no
She sends u a letter
you say no / ignore
she goes to small claims court (prob called summit else these days)
you turn up on day and win ..... happy days


If you ignore a letter, you're reducing your chances of winning.  You have to show that you've tried to resolve the matter.  Be reasonable at all times.

Vin
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Dave66 on October 17, 2012, 09:57:30 pm
either ignore her or write her a cheque out for 8k  ;D
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: rosskesava on October 17, 2012, 09:57:59 pm
I've only once been accused of scratching glass with a scraper years ago. These people being rich and wealthy threatened hell, fire and damnation.

Obviously I went round to see them and got a whole pile of abuse but what I ended up doing was giving them the scraper (with a new blade) and while I watched, told them to try it on the doors that I was supposed to have scratched. I wet the glass with much much more detergent than I normally use, just in case, and after going over part of the glass, I let the husband have a go which he did.

I said to them that when they take me to court, I'll be taking a bit of glass and a scraper with me as my defense.

I didn't even wait for them to wipe the glass dry and inspect it. I just left. I never heard from them again.




I think also maybe write to this customer and explain you've never been accused of scratching glass with a scraper designed for use on glass and that if these types of scrapers were known for such problems, then cleaning supply companies wouldn't sell them or there'd be a warning about using them on glass.

Also maybe suggest that they try using a scraper themselves and see if it scratches the glass.
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 18, 2012, 07:57:45 am
Tell her verbally that you will resist any claims against you as you have not scratched her glass. Tell her you have noted the conversation down stating date time and telephone record including her number and your number. Repeat that you emphatically deny any such thing.

Do not get drawn into conversation.

If she asks where the marks came from - you say I do not know; they were there before I cleaned. If she says that's not possible you say you aren't there to guess how and when they got there but that you did not do it.

Tell her you clean over one hundred pieces of glass a day and have done for XX years and have never had a complaint of such a nature before.

If she threatens to sue say that if she does you will defend your reputation robustly, will attend any court proceedings and that you will reclaim any costs incurred.

Then wait ...

Don't talk to her, don't try to help don't send back a reply without getting further advice.

If paper lands on the mat come back here before you reply and I will tell you what to do!  ;D
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Tony Edwards on October 18, 2012, 08:03:31 am
Cheers gold

That's exactly what I have done so far. I just had a gut feeling when I started the job that she was going to be trouble. Lesson learnt trust your instincts.
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: formb on October 18, 2012, 08:29:32 am
Useful information:

http://www.thefieldsco.com/index.php?page=what-a-construction-window-cleaner-sees

Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: formb on October 18, 2012, 08:31:26 am
Here is a letter I use after a customer has had building work:

Dear            ,

When we came round today to clean your windows we noticed that you have had some building work done to your house. This has meant that we need to re-quote you any additional work required.

We have not cleaned your windows today.

Before we go ahead and start cleaning your windows again we ask that you inspect all your windows for damage, i.e. scratches, stone chips, cement etc. In our experience it is quite likely that there will be damage which has taken place either before installation, during the building process or on removal of building debris from the glass.

We have been cleaning windows for over 20 years, during that time we have done many builders cleans both for domestic customers and for national building firms. Our equipment is specifically designed for the purpose of cleaning windows. Everyone on our staff has been trained in the safe removal of building debris. If in doubt, visit www.thefieldsco.com where you will find lots of information on the causes of scratches, and how to spot them.

If you want us to clean your windows your new regular price will be:         

Please contact me if you are happy for us to go ahead.
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: formb on October 18, 2012, 08:37:09 am
I'd go with the general consensus and tell her it was not you. End of story.

I have been threatened with legal action in the past also. It is very unlikely that anything will happen. As a precaution I'd get a health and safety policy drawn up which includes something along the lines of:


Risk: Damaging window

Threat: Low

Precaution: Routine inspection and maintenance of equipment

Risk after precaution: As low as reasonably practible
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: jon gore window cl on October 18, 2012, 09:05:13 am
Some types of glass does easily scratch - especially patio doors - they seem to have the type of glass that is susceptible to scratching using a blade. WFP brushes can scratch certain types of glass - especially if you wipe the sills and pick up sand particles that come off from concrete roof tiles and then happily start working on the next pane without giving the brush a good flick to get rid of the sand you just picked up!
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Steve peel on October 18, 2012, 10:32:39 am
Rubbish, you cant scratch glass with a SS scraper nor will any water fed pole with aluminium fittings on them, the only way glass can be scratched is with a contaminated cloth or brush head.
I have had this before and demonstrated in court  with a piece of glass and a stainless steel scraper in front of the judge, he could clearly see that the blade could not scratch the glass.
Hence the case being dismissed.
This happens often on builders cleans and the architects or site project manager generally blame the window cleaner , 9 time out of 10 the glass was already scratched.
an example, architects used to recc the old Over the Top 6" ss scraper to remove debri from glass prior to cleaning, in one particular event the project manager try to blame the scraper, i said call your architect over, which he did and he said to me and the manager only a ss scraper should be used and he mentioned the one i had, he said no way can you scratch glass with one  of them , I said you mean one of these, Yes he said , well thats what I used, so he inspected a further 20 glass panels before we touched them and found that 12 were badly scratched, the project manager was sacked. so don't let the big boys blame you, stand up and be counted.
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Tony Edwards on October 19, 2012, 09:06:49 am
Thanks for all the advice guys
Title: Re: Custy said I scratched the glass
Post by: Small but perfectley formed on October 19, 2012, 01:53:23 pm
You can scratch glass with a scraper because l  have done it on builders clean on patio doors .
The glass is tempered and it does scratch.