Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: lee_dewing on October 16, 2012, 08:16:46 am
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Hi Guys.
My wife has just been made redundant, she walked away with 6 months money, so we will be alright for a while ::)
Looking to generate more income myself, I have been unhappy for a while with how much I earn, have to do a lot of school runs, but at present this is now being taken care of by my mrs.
I average about £120-130 a day and live west essex most of my round is in quite affluent areas.
For example I have 1 road in particular where I clean six 4 bed detached houses and I charge £15 I have debated over the last 2 years about putting them up to £20.
Would probably lose some or all, they are all fifty somethings, semi or retired (not poor.)
On top of this I'l add it takes me nearly 37-40 days to get round to each customer according to George systems.
Was thinking of putting up nearly everyone by £2 (except the 4 beds mentioned to extra £5).
I have 215 customers and hoping to generate another £400 ish a month.
I have too much work to get round in a month, I am wfp small van, 1 man setup, run trolley as van mount.
Either I am too slow (not that much i think.)
Have work too spaced out (not that much really.)
I think there is a bit of truth in those two things but basically thinking of putting everyone up.
I am a coward and am planning to do by letter.
Do you think this is dangerous and I should put sections of my round up over a few months to combat possible fallout?
Cheapest jobs are £5 fronts of mid terraced properties.
Sorry for large posts.
Thanks for reading and your thoughts please.
Lee
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I've made increases of £2 to domestic customers before, without a problem, but only to those who I felt was underpriced.
I did mine in sections; not all at once; and I do it by letter also. I think it gives customers time to reflect; they don't have to make a snap decision like they do face-to-face. I also find it easier just to drive to an area and walk about putting the letters through their letterbox rather than trying to catch them in and remember who you have told and who you have not told.
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Im going to jump in the shower now so not really took all this in but it seems more about yourself and your business approach.
Sit down and have good look at what your doing and how to change things and speak to others around your area pick there brains and redefine your business.....more to follow
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4 words which can makes a huge difference to your working day and your income.
WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER.
Just by making small changes in different areas of your working day can have a large impact.
A few months ago I altered what time of day my lads fill their water tanks. ie morning or evening. This seemingly small change increased turnover by a good amount as it reduced down time.
If I were you I would sit down and look at the whole picture. Prices, when you start and finish, breaks, how you work, how you get paid, how you load your van and so on.
make some small changes and you will be amazed at the increases that can be made.
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Hi Lee
You still considering getting the missus to work with you on the windows?
G.
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4 words which can makes a huge difference to your working day and your income.
WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER.
Just by making small changes in different areas of your working day can have a large impact.
A few months ago I altered what time of day my lads fill their water tanks. ie morning or evening. This seemingly small change increased turnover by a good amount as it reduced down time.
If I were you I would sit down and look at the whole picture. Prices, when you start and finish, breaks, how you work, how you get paid, how you load your van and so on.
make some small changes and you will be amazed at the increases that can be made.
Excellent business advice!!
My 2p worth of advice is not always go after customers pockets to cure YOUR PROBLEM! yes it may be part of the problem but be careful you don't hurt the pipeline to your business,it sounds like you have a v good base but few area where you need to make just small adjustment & not always on prices but with your prices you should be on £150+ ....
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Lee,
My advice is to do nothing!
You mention that your day is broken up by having to do the school runs, its taking you 37-40 to get around your customers, your taking 120-130 per day & you charge £15 for a 4 bed detached!
Now your not doing school runs and taking days off with sick children there is no reason why you cant get around all your customers within 28 days and if those 4 bed detached are just standard size I don't see a great deal wrong with your pricing!
There is no reason why you can't achieve around the £200 mark every day and with that you'll probably find you need some extra customers rather than culling them with a price increase!
Al
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Adding £5 to a £15 job is a 33% rise, most people would be very surprised and possibly annoyed at such a hike. The very most I would be looking at raising them prices would be by £2 the most and then the other smaller ones by £1, if at all. And if you do decide to increase, it may be better to wait until after Christmas, possibly February. Then you wouldn't lose them before Christmas and if you did lose them in the new year you just start looking for new customers - with your new prices. Just my opinion.!
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i have a price review every january and earmark ones im going to put up and tell em in person in feb/march that the new price will come into effect from april.most go up a pound or two but i did put some up a fiver and one by £8 last year and didnt lose them!!
on average ive lost 3 or 4 customers every year when putting up say 100 accounts.so its been a win win situation over the last few years for me.
with the new better priced work ive picked up as well as prices rises im earning £10,000-£12,000 more a year then 3 years ago! :D :D FOR LESS WORK!!
i have 340 accounts mostly monthly and i can easily get them done in 3 and half days/four days a week.sometimes finishing at 2pm!starting 9am-10am usually finishing around 4pm.
im very organized though with no kids and use the best poles i can afford(CLX,SLX,SUPERMAX).i have 30 mins for lunch and take a packed lunch and flask every day.use a van mount with 100m of microbore and virtually WFP everything these days using 300-400L a day.
i have lots of compact work as well and most work is within a 6-7 mile area.
if your not doing the school runs any more lee i reckon youll get round a bit sooner and make more money.your prices seem ok to me but im in manchester where the cost of living is not as high as yours!
very best wishes
dazmond
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if you really need another 400 quid you gotta go find extra jobs
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Thanks Everyone for your replies, and happy to receive more,
Tosh, I will do the price increase as you have (letters)
From what you've said on here maybe I'm being a bit hasty and should maybe wait til the new yr.
My wife has only been out of work two weeks and if i'm entirely honest having been getting out as early as I could now not doing school runs :o
Neil, I appreciate the smarter not harder slogan, which is why I want to put prices up a bit.
If I can get another £2 off someone then why not, I may have to tread carefully at present as not the best time of year to pick up new work and if you do it can be one time charlies wanting windows done for xmas as inlaws over for xmas turkey and don't want em seeing minging windows ;D
I appreciate the little changes note Neil and I have been thinking of some tweaking inside the van freeing up space and making the on-off with equipment easier.
Granny, I've gone off the idea of working with the mrs, time I show her what to do how to do it; I may as well have done it myself and know it's right.
Don't think my ford escort van would work for 2 man setup.
Just my opinion; if it works for u, great, I know Tosh works with his other half.
Mrs Brown: thanks and noted.
Alistair: Thanks and as said I'l think I will sit tight a little longer and see what you say comes true just can't see me ever hitting £200 a day and maybe that's the problem.
Bit like the 4 minute mile was impossible then roger b, did it and shortly after so did everyone else :D
Joesph: I apprieciate the 33% note, and would probably lose em, but these 4 bed detached houses have all got an extension where I have to use ladder to get on flat roof to access a large window.
That's the problem wfp all then run back get ladder to do one window, thats what adds time.
I have £20 jobs I do 10 minutes quicker :-[
Dazmond thanks alot for that info and funny I have been reading "winning at window cleaning" book by the guy who makes the ariel brushes.
And what you've done is great Daz, and that is what this book stresses.
Not bogging yourself done with too much work.
Having enough well priced work you can get round in 4 days per week, (as you lose time/days to rain) so extra day in week and saturday if needed to keep on schedule.
Also earning ave employee wage in 3 days.
And regularly review prices so your hourly rate increases, only taking new work at higher prices to keep on the up and up.
I will see how the next month goes starting that bit earleir don't want to get to custies earlier than 9am
I will put up a handful of custies that desperately need it.
New custie confirmed they wanted me by text today 4/5 bed house, previous windy wfp, not allowed dripping time from upstairs window with ivy so window underneath spotty :o
He was charging £15 and I priced £20 they want me a.s.a.p ;)
Thanks everyone for your comments.
Thanks again Daz for a detailed and honest post.
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if you really need another 400 quid you gotta go find extra jobs
Hi Robert, sorry I don't see it that way, I'm full up and not earning enough, so putting up prices makes sense for me.
If i find I have extra time in my day not doing school runs then i will take on new work as you say,. but for me I don't want to put in longer hours.
Smarter and not harder as been said.
thanks lee.
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Lee, what about bumping up the ones you're unhappy with- if not all- and going 6 weekly or even bi-monthly. You get more per job and they are paying less, so it should be ok :-\.
It could also give you more time to generate more work.
Or, employ a part-timer to trad ground floor windows. It shouldn't take them long to get up to speed and won't affect your present wfp system.
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I've gone off the idea of working with the mrs, time I show her what to do how to do it; I may as well have done it myself and know it's right.
Don't think my ford escort van would work for 2 man setup.
Just my opinion; if it works for u, great, I know Tosh works with his other half.
Would the Mrs be willing to canvas instead of cleaning?
If she could canvas (at better prices) you could raise your regular prices quicker and be able to afford a few drops. If she does well you can get shot of the ones that refuse an increase. In the end you will end up with more, better priced work.
Dinner might not be on the table when you get home and your shirts might be a bit creased, but it could turn into the turning point of your business.
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Make a note of customers with solar panels. In a few weks start letting them know as it's the perfect time to sell this service imho. Grubby and with daylight getting hours shorter they (customers) need them clean to get maximum benefit.
It may well see you through til you find a longer term solution. I'm charging £3 per panel (if access is good, which it usually is.
Got a plan to sell 'Caravan Valet Spring Cleans' to all my road-blockers next year. Hopefully get a few repeat customers year on year?
Good luck btw.
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Looking to generate more income myself, I have been unhappy for a while with how much I earn, have to do a lot of school runs, but at present this is now being taken care of by my mrs.
I average about £120-130 a day and live west essex most of my round is in quite affluent areas.
How do you work? Are you wfp?
You should be earning that by lunch time even in less affluent areas.
How much work do you do in 1 hour? If you are unhappy with any work then better to increase to a price you will be happy to clean for the next 3 years.
You should be getting through much more work than that if you are wfp, though.
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Hi Mark yes wfp, trolley used as van mount 10x 25 ltr barrels and 100 metre micro bore hose, use 22 clx.
£20 hr is average.
Have hit £150 couple times this week now not doing school runs. 9 am til 4pm.
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Hi Lee,
you certainly have a good base to start and expand - if you want to
what are the chances of the Mrs getting another job ? - if slim then i think you need to take up the mantle
and run your biz full tilt.
i cant comment on your pricing as location/number of windows etc.. can determine how much you charge
but even with a school run (mornings and afternoons) £200 should be very achievable
you need to increase productivity or prices - does your day consist of lot's of tea and chat with customers?
is your route planned out the best it can be ? do set a high tempo or just muddle along ??
if no to the above then prices would seem to be the problem - when did you last put them up ?
it's better to work 3 good price houses than 4 cheapo ones
if you can hold on then i'd price rise in March/April
best regards
Darran
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Lee, i know what its like working work around the school run. Yes its about working smarter and making sure your not traveling out of your way to jobs when there are others round the corner. Planning is the key there !
I also think you need to look at getting a tank. Again, smarter working from a tank than keep changing the barrels ... filling up must take a while too.
Now you have said about your full up with work and dont need any more. I dissagree with this. More work is good if it is where you already work. If you can get more work in streets where you already work, you will up your hourly earnings.
I have had the card below done (few mistakes before anyone points it out). I have put about 50 of these cards out and got 7 new jobs in streets i already work in. I hand write the numbers you already clean on the card and found it works well as people know you work there already and can as your customer if your any good etc.
250 from vista print for £3.05 on a 21 day delivery but came in 5 days
(http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l542/bluefrogsystems/20120612_174023.jpg)
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i think lee after following your posts over the last few years is that you dont seem to have the right attitude and confidence in your ability to charge higher prices for your work.
once you ve took tax,insurances,fuel and overhead costs,no holiday pay,sick pay etc,etc AND living in essex where the cost of living is considerably more than where i live i bet your just about getting by with no money for luxuries like decent holidays and not much money for re investing in new equipment/van etc.
i think you should put loads of customers prices up in april next year giving them a month or 2 months notice.put most up a quid or two and the ones you think should go up a fiver give them an ultimatum eg "i will have to put your cleaning price up as this account is very underpriced or stop cleaning for you"youll be surprised if your attitude is right.if you do a good job and are regular and reliable you wont lose too many.
also you need to canvass better priced work.leaflet and canvass 3 days later is the best way.choose higher end accounts.
find better ways of working more efficiently.for example a tank would be better than having to change barrels in the van which is wasting time mate.
i wouldnt mess about with a letter and tell customers face to face about price rise.
i get a feeling ill be hearing the same thing from you in a few years unless you have a drastic change in attitude.dont take this the wrong way lee but i think you need to grow some balls and do what ive suggested!
this is your livelyhood and business here mate and providing for you and your family and you deserve more!!
very best wishes
dazmond
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also its amazing how much more work you can get out of your existing customer base.i have loads of maintenance window cleaning that have their conny roofs cleaned,soffits and fascias and now solar panels cleaned annually.charge well and that will get your hourly rate up a bit as well.
i reckon you should be looking at doubling your hourly rate to £40 an hour over the next few years esp in the area you live.
have your list of add ons on your business cards,tickets and van.
regards
dazmond
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put them up
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Darren, Good points and if I was honest I do chat abit at times, maybe its a bit daft of me think its good customer relations.
Not terrible though.
But I suppose you shouldn't chat to anyone longer than you can hold your breath :-[
And organizing my day with work closer together (been doing that better)
Also made a few tweaks in/on the van today, even if it just saves a few minutes, will make things flow better.
I think mrs will get another job not a good one at present, as you say Darren it is time to pick up the pace, ideally I would like mrs local part time job she enjoys and does all school runs.
Blue frog: Great biz card and your right about filling in the gaps work in roads already have.
I do except new work if in road i'm in already and if not but decent I will.
Regarding the tank in van issue, would love to but RO setup at parents no off street parking so barrels wheeled out on sack trolley 2 at a time :'(
Not ideal I know but can't guarantee parking outside parents house.
Daz: I agree with all said, I not the most confident guy business savy wise.
And agree not enjoying much luxuries, last two bad winters we had really hurt me financially and took me a while to dust myself off.
I will do as you've all said sketch out a plan and come out fighting march april.
Also want to aim for £10 min for work.
I do a bit of texting to unlock gates and getting away from this now, fed up of spending my time studying weather forecasts, (working out how many custies to text) i'm happy to work in drizzle but that's it.
Probably get shot down for this but just not happy working in rain.
In the near future i want to eliminate texting custy's. (just want to go out armed with list and do as much as i can)
I think for me notifying people in advance is a bug bear and can make my day stressfull fitting it all in, or to be rained off and reorganize all this.
Just seems a way of making a simple job difficult :(
Instead tell custy if their not in to unlock gate, I can climb over, if they don't want me climbing over it's £10 front minimuim.
Or should I insist if gates locked I climb over and if custy won't let me climb over, if not in, tell em i'l still charge full price (Is that a bit strong?)
Maybe my mrs being out of work is the kick in the arse I needed.
Thanks very much everyone for your thoughts and suggestions.
Lee
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Ask your wife to work with you, would be able to increase your workload by canvassing more customers, putting up prices, and because you are both working together makes caring for the family a lot easier.
My wife works with me, and the customers love her as she often chats, and has excellent people skills ( means I don't have to talk and can crack on ).
Just a note to say that we get on really well together, so this is a must if you work together.
If you want to talk or need any advice just email ;D
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Agree with Samson entirely. It does work very well as long as you get on well together!
You can split tasks up between you as well which really lightens the load.
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Have you ever thought about working with another cleaner or to get somebody to help you? This way you will be able to cover a bigger parameter as well as to increase the number of your clients. I don't think that raising the price with 2 will be a problem for most of your clients. And about the letters, it is not a bad idea, but you can use and other alternative ways such as to send them an email or something. It's you choice after all. Good luck.
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oh and work in the rain,sleet,snow,wind if its not relentless all day which it rarely is!!after a few years customers get used to you turning up in all weathers and pay up without a grumble!
toughen up and invest in some decent wet weather gear(goretex boots,jacket and waterproof trousers).
its your whole attitude that needs changing lee.
i think you have problems with self motivation esp when the weather gets bad and also in relation to price rises and canvassing.you procrastinate and before you know it 3 years have passed and nothings changed.
in the last 3 years my round has changed drastically for the better and yours(by the sounds of it)has not changed at all.
BUT ive really got motivated and put loads of prices up,canvassed better priced work and been a lot more professional in the way i run my business.
i now have a full days work to do today then 10 days off!!i need a break from window cleaning and im going to ruddy well enjoy myself!off to london next week to stay at a 5 star hotel with new girlfriend and see my brother.
im bang up to date with work and as its a 5 week month(im calendar monthly for most work)and off to london next week,ill start back 3 days behind a week on monday.
take some action now lee!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
very best wishes
dazmond
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Lee you are spending too much time on each property. Are you running out of water and having to change barrels halfway through?
It might be a ball ache until you've worked everything out, but most windows don't need rinsing. You can either go back later and check the windows yourself (what i did), or emphasize your rain guarantee, say nothing and stop rinsing.
Alternatively, your water flow isn't very high and whacking it up would speed you up no end.
That is where a van mount comes into its own. You should really get a tank, you could either fill it from the barrels, or get a long hose and fill direct from your parents.
I got jeff brimble like with minimal water usage when i worked with a trolley. It allowed me to do more with the water i carried.
But when i went back to van mount i did the same work with a much higher flow rate in around 1 hour less time.
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oh and work in the rain,sleet,snow,wind if its not relentless all day which it rarely is!!after a few years customers get used to you turning up in all weathers and pay up without a grumble!
toughen up and invest in some decent wet weather gear(goretex boots,jacket and waterproof trousers).
its your whole attitude that needs changing lee.
Hi Daz, how do you go about this?
I understand the doing a bit.
But my customers will be a bit shocked, obviously I tell em the wfp in rain bit and rain guarantee.
What if customer flatley refuses to have windoes cleaned?
what do you do Daz, you must have come across this maybe not now but when you decided to go out in most weathers.
Did you lose any customers because of this?
I understand the attitude comment, but at the same time don't want to ruin my business by upsetting the people that pay my wages.
Not finding fault in what you do Daz ;)
thanks Lee
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oh and work in the rain,sleet,snow,wind if its not relentless all day which it rarely is!!after a few years customers get used to you turning up in all weathers and pay up without a grumble!
toughen up and invest in some decent wet weather gear(goretex boots,jacket and waterproof trousers).
its your whole attitude that needs changing lee.
Hi Daz, how do you go about this?
I understand the doing a bit.
But my customers will be a bit shocked, obviously I tell em the wfp in rain bit and rain guarantee.
What if customer flatley refuses to have windoes cleaned?
what do you do Daz, you must have come across this maybe not now but when you decided to go out in most weathers.
Did you lose any customers because of this?
I understand the attitude comment, but at the same time don't want to ruin my business by upsetting the people that pay my wages.
Not finding fault in what you do Daz ;)
thanks Lee
You just get out there and do it ... you have to be sensible about it though and what I mean by that is if its really hammering it down then no I wont work in it neither or if its rain and wind then same again ... light to medium rain is fine by me though.
Dont bother with rain gurantee's.
I have a rule that any not today's normally result in a removal from my round however if its raining and I get not today I will explain how rain dont effect the end result with wfp (not had to do this for a long time though as all my customers are used to seeing me in rain now) but if I still get or got no leave it this time cos of rain then just say ok no problem see you next month and off I go onto next job ... if they say can you come back tomorrow as going to be a nice day just say sorry not in this area again till next month.
If you have 20 jobs lined up and 3 say no then you still got 17 done and hopefully had a decent days wage.
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Hi Lee
I've only been going about 3 months but I seem to be getting a pretty good response from my leaflets (aimed at slightly better customers). I'm happy to email you a copy and you can help yourself, if that's any help.
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Hi Robbo, here's my email: l.dewing@btinternet.com
That would be great, many thanks.
Ian thanks for that.
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Hi Robbo
Could you please send me a copy of your leaflet too.
My email address is info@pncarpetcleaning.co.uk
Cheers m8
Paul
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Lee, Paul, emails sent.
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Hi robbo would appreciate a good leaflet if you could be so kind dgarrett@ntlworld.com
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Robbo,
Thanks very much for sending the leaflet, that's the best one I've seen. ;)
Clear uncluttered, straight to the point, good wording.
See you did your own website, who with?
Thanks again, Lee
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Put your prices up mate, never be shy about your price. Put up your existing customers and price higher on new jobs. Introduce a minimum charge £10.00 and £12.00 Start a 4 bed deatched around £25.00 as a bench mark. If you are doing fronts only on mid terrace's start at £10.00 if its got a porch its £12.00 to £15.00. Good luck.
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Robbo
thanks for sending me your leaflet thats very kind of you.
Must say it looks really good
Thanks again
Paul
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Wouldn't mind a look at that leaflet I need all the help I can get! ;D
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Robbo if possible could you send me a copy of the leaflet as well quirketom91@gmail.com