Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mark_roberts on October 12, 2012, 06:48:18 pm
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Im wanting to take on another part timer.
We wear short sleeve shirts.
I dont want a guy with tattoos.
So during an interview can I ask if he has tattoos?
Can I ask him to keep them covered by getting him a long sleeve shirt?
Any other problems with this?
THanks
Mark
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I dont think you can discriminate against people with tattoos and not give them the job, you could but just don't say it out loud, but you can ask him to wear a long sleeve shirt. I have tattoos on my arms, which i do regret, but it never seems a problem with my customers, at least I don't think :(
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Why dont you want a chap with tattoos and their arms?
what if they are the best candidate?
i have tattoos... never had an issue but work for myself..
I think they maybe more accepted in society now anyways...well certainly on arms..
its when someone tips up with them on their neck head & face.. now that maybe a bit off putting and intimidating
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agree with paul, you'll be amazed these days just how many of your customers have them hidden away. a lot more than you think, stop being so old fashioned, loads of people have them. i had a guy in a suit come to my house trying to sell me something, i was topless fixing the van and he commented on my tats in a nice way, then rolled up his trouser leg to reveal a massive tribal, turned out he had loads, well in his fifties and a right posh en.
i personally think you could miss out on the best candidate if your putting tattoos into the equasion of who doesn't qualify,
ps... ive had 2 helpers, both covered in them and not only were and are they great workers, but the customers get on great with them, its not the tatts its the personality that counts.
thats my 2 penneth.
hope this helps
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Mark, I understand your concerns, I have tattos on my shoulders out of sight whilst wearing short sleeves and must say now im in this job I am glad I never got any on my forearms. It gives the wrong impression to clients.
I see what the others are saying, all very noble but the reason I wear a proper shirt is the same reason - appearance matters.
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agree with paul, you'll be amazed these days just how many of your customers have them hidden away. a lot more than you think, stop being so old fashioned, ...........
I reckon that's a fair comment Derek. The 'hidden away' is the crucial part of your post. Who is anyone to criticise how others want to mutilate their bodies. Personally don't find any attractive - but then I'm just 'old fashioned'
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mark in my opinion it would depend what tattoos they had. if it was home-made indian ink jobs with love and hate on their knuckles then no . if it was a symbol on the arm and the guy was a nice person then yes . where i was brought up in glasgow it was cool in the early 80s to get a celtic or an ira tattoo done(i never) but i bet their regretting it now. what im saying is there's not the same stigma to them as there was years ago . pick the guy or girl on their own merit
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then your the perfect guy to ask.
scenario
if you had 2 quotes for windows and doors, one guy came round in suit and tie and quoted you 3k, was serious with his notepad and measure etc.
next guy came round in a nice van but tshirt and tatts, cracked a few sensible jokes and entered into some witty banter with charm, quoted the same price 3k. who would you go with elliot cleaning?
@dan patton.
you mean "love and hat" cos they lost a finger ;D
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I think Derek and others are right, the general attitude towards tattoos has changed massively. We used to have an unofficial No Tatts policy when we started 20 odd years ago but not now if the guy is the right one tatts aren't a problem. It does depend WHAT the tatts are of course, we had one guy turn up with full sleeve forearm of naked women, NEXT no matter how good he was.
The way we handle the visible arm tatts is the techy arrives with either long sleves, or his coat or jacket, or sweatshirt on, so they are covered. He then introduces himself and gets to know the client as he unloads and sets up (potentially putting the customer at ease) then he can remove his jacket, coat etc to reveal the tatts.
Hope that helps.
Al.
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i'd go with the witty guy with a few funny jokes . face to face marketing is about having a rapport with the customer . if the customer likes you then you got the job unless your dressed like a tramp but a nice polo shirt and a pair of combats on is acceptable . your not a lawyer turning up your a carpet cleaner :)
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Just ask them on an application form, don't waste time interviewing someone you can eliminate. It is your choice who you want working for you so long as it's not on sex, religious, disability (if they could do the job) or race ground.
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We are missing Marks question it was not asking our opinon on weather or not to employ them, it was, can he ask?
Can he ask?
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fair enough . refer to wynne jones's answer then but in my own personal opinion i'll go back to the answer from derek west . how many times have i seen the sentence on here businessmen first and carpet cleaners second . me personally i'd rather have someone who could strike up a brilliant rapport with a customer tattoos or not
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The good news is there are plenty of people we can still discriminate against and keep them out of a job.
Gingers, fat people, people who sweat too much, ugly people, dwarfs, people with annoying laughs, lanky people, scousers, people with skin conditions and of course smart arses.
So long as they are not black, gay, in a wheelchair or wear a turban knock yourself out.
Personally I don't care what they are like so long as they are trainable and honest.
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Personally I don't care what they are like so long as they are trainable and honest.
[/quote]
spot on wynne ;D
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You forgot about the Welsh
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He said trainable and honest, that ruled the Welsh out :P
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I had someone working for me once who I had to sack because he always
had his tattoo on show.
It was on his cock.
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Check the spelling and grammer first.
Shaun
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I have a half sleeve on my left for arm from my younger days, have to say in the last 10 years I've only been asked to cover it up once and that was during a stay in Belfast while on a course.
Was not allowed in the pubs with the tattoos showing, it took me a back but I obliged not wanting to miss some of the black stuff.
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Its a good job my mate Cammy is self employed!!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/316512_10150302166630988_1859014447_n.jpg)
As a tattoo artist!
The scarring stuff he is into is just mental.
He has a forked tongue too. :P
Thats a peace symbol for those that dont know its origins.
You can see his work here. All done with tiny little dots
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.248289225987.147348.626065987&type=3 (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.248289225987.147348.626065987&type=3)
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Jamie, I thought you couldn't leave school in Scotland until you have a tattoo?
I'm saying that, but every Welsh man from the valleys has the Three Feathers tattooed on them somewhere (mine is on my shoulder). The women and gays have 'Made in Wales'.
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i tattooed my wrists with indian ink when i was 13 was a bit of a rum en in my younger days and put a dot on my hand which looked absolute horrible was good at the time lol iv'e still got the ones on my wrist they look a rite mess and the dot on my hand i had covered with a swallow a few month ago looks a lot better than dots lol allthough i don't think it put's customers off aslong as your nice and polite then i don't see a problem if you have tatts or not.
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I had someone working for me once who I had to sack because he always
had his tattoo on show.
It was on his cock.
;D ;D ;D
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Jamie, I thought you couldn't leave school in Scotland until you have a tattoo?
Primary school.
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I agree personality etc thats what we must consider first but appearance is also almost as important.
What people choose to do to themselves is up to them, they have to answer for it, I agree.
However do I want someone with orange hair, covered in tats, everything pierced. No I do not as that person is representing me and my business. Its not the image I want to give esp to my older customers who may not be so comfortable with it.
So under the current law can I ask and tell to cover up?
I should say my current helper has them but he choose to declare it at interview and request a long sleeve shirt as he regrets having them.
Thanks
Mark
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I have read a bit, it seems its very hazy regarding law, but suffice to say employers can refuse someone on the grounds that their tattos are not inline with the image the company wants to portray if for example its to work in restaurants or dealing with the public, ect.
So go ahead ask.
I can see the EU changing this some day soon!
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Craigp has that famous welsh railway station tattooed on his man hood...rhyl ;D
Shaun
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No its; supercalifragilisticexpialidocious in chinese! ;D
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God it's even shorter in Chinese ;D
Shaun
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I agree personality etc thats what we must consider first but appearance is also almost as important.
What people choose to do to themselves is up to them, they have to answer for it, I agree.
However do I want someone with orange hair, covered in tats, everything pierced. No I do not as that person is representing me and my business. Its not the image I want to give esp to my older customers who may not be so comfortable with it.
So under the current law can I ask and tell to cover up?
I should say my current helper has them but he choose to declare it at interview and request a long sleeve shirt as he regrets having them.
Thanks
Mark
Although this question has been answered already, maybe you ought to get in touch with an employment law specialist and ask them. Saying Craig Googled it and said it was OK, probably won't cut it at the tribunal. ;D
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Shame as I was going to cut and paste it as evidence :D
Maybe will use my FSB membership for once and ring their legal service.
Mark
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Yeah tell them Craig on 'clean it up' said its fine, and I spent 5 minutes researching that you know.
You must cover your back. Tell them you wont let any old numpty misinform you on some forum. This was Craigp on 'clean it up'
I rekon your be water tight with that.
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I tend to naturally be more wary of people with tattoos. I know a lot of cowboy dealers who have tattoos. The fact that a lot of my close friends have tattoos and are trustworthy people sways things, but not enough to turn off the alarm bells in my head completely.
My Dad is very conservative and is much more inclined to do business with someone in a suit with no tattoos showing, than someone in casual clothes showing tattoos. Despite maybe being of a dying generation - as a businessman, my Dad is the exact type of client who I want to attract and impress.
For this reason I would be reluctant to allow tattoos near my business image and therefore reluctant to hire someone with tattoos. Certainly I would request him/her to hide her tattoos on the job.
Im not overly pro shirts and ties. I think they are uncounfy, lack freedom of expression, very inconvenient to keep clean and are therefore getting outdated in the new generations. However they sell. And if it means impressing a client I will certainly put on a shirt and tie! To not do so would mean loosing out on lots of money over time.
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Its a good job my mate Cammy is self employed!!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/316512_10150302166630988_1859014447_n.jpg)
As a tattoo artist!
The scarring stuff he is into is just mental.
He has a forked tongue too. :P
Thats a peace symbol for those that dont know its origins.
You can see his work here. All done with tiny little dots
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.248289225987.147348.626065987&type=3 (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.248289225987.147348.626065987&type=3)
What's that spot on his nose? :)
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They were cut using a dermal punch for taking off moles.
2 x 5mm holes. No anaesthetic either. He is a nutcase.
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Yeah, but I bet he's screwed when he needs to write a reminder on the back of his hand!
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bet you wouldn't want to be stood to the left of him when he's got a cold! You might get it in the side of the head!!!
;D ;D
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Someone should colour him in.
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I've heard it all now.
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I agree personality etc thats what we must consider first but appearance is also almost as important.
What people choose to do to themselves is up to them, they have to answer for it, I agree.
However do I want someone with orange hair, covered in tats, everything pierced. No I do not as that person is representing me and my business. Its not the image I want to give esp to my older customers who may not be so comfortable with it.
You can employ who you want. So don't employ someone with showable tattoo's....simples!
On the app form, put a question:
do you have any distinguishing body markings (inc tattoo's) or body piercings.
answer yes......don't employ
answer no......employ if right candidate on trial basis, once in your uniform you will see if they have been honest or not and if the latter, you can get rid due to lying on app form
So under the current law can I ask and tell to cover up?
I should say my current helper has them but he choose to declare it at interview and request a long sleeve shirt as he regrets having them.
Thanks
Mark
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Funny enough this exact thing is going to be discussed on radio 5 live today, not sure what time, they never said, but this morning I think.
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Tattoos and a shaved head has never stopped me going anywhere !!
Even when I just had cropped hair & a SKINS tattoo, I was working in Fulham/Chelsea for a company populated by sloane rangers ::)
Neither has the same meaning anymore so most people do not discount you for it !!
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Some of our cleaners London (http://www.fantasticccleaners.com/) have tattoos, but we ask them to hide them so, it's a win-win situation. I don't think that you should discriminate people with tattoos, but if you want to ask the question in a more appropriate way, then just say something like " Have you ever do something extreme in your life such as making a tattoo for instance?". This should give you the desired results.
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On radio 2 now. turns out the police have been doing this for years, you have to declare them at interview.
Also a few called in to say they work in supermakets and its their policy that they are not on show.
I think you are quite safe asking if the police do it.
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POLICE in Australia have banned officers from having visible tatoos
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Mark
Just been out for a meal with a friend who is a solicitor who specalises in employment law and this topic came up during the evening.
There are only certain issues that are down on statute as to which you cannot discriminate on eg sex, race etc.
Therefore as long as you ask all potential employees the same question you can simply pick/choose who you wish to employ from the application form. Obviously you may want to add the question or something similar to " will you be prepared to wear clothes that hide tattoos should you happen to have any".
Hope this helps.
Rog
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Good point about being able to show consistent questioning. You can be pulled up if you ask different questions that may eliminate someone.