Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: john martin on October 11, 2012, 11:37:04 pm
-
Another curious vid from Ashbys featuring 'under load ' testing
series vs parallel ... it has been said that series retains more cfm under load so its a more complex test result to decipher ...
i kinda just dont trust them , but interesting vid
also the 5.7's look like Electro three stages insted of lamb ? wonder have they started using them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v8rFuiM1i4&feature=player_embedded
-
this demonstrates what i've always said, with no load the
6.6s are fantastic in comparison to 5.7s. But under load
you need the waterlift to pull air through the fabric/carpet.
ie with more lift you can pull more air through the wand carpet interface.
i think with greater resistance at the WCI you would see even greater difference,
as even the 5.7s only reached 95" of lift, well within the 6.6 parallels capabilities.
i cant find any specs on Electro motors, or possible suppliers.
-
this demonstrates what i've always said, with no load the
6.6s are fantastic in comparison to 5.7s. But under load
you need the waterlift to pull air through the fabric/carpet.
ie with more lift you can pull more air through the wand carpet interface.
i think with greater resistance at the WCI you would see even greater difference,
as even the 5.7s only reached 95" of lift, well within the 6.6 parallels capabilities.
i cant find any specs on Electro motors, or possible suppliers.
http://www.electromtr.com/bypass-tangential-exhaust-motors.htm
some data pdfs on the site , mytee uses them in the LTD and M5 range but they call them lmb2a .
Suppliers ? perhaps direct from electro .... or they are rebranded ' lighthouse ' here for the central vacuum site guys ...
http://www.centralvacuummotor.com/lighthouse.htm
look for the high airwatt models .
If Ashbys are using them in the Enforcer its no wonder they got cocky all of a sudden , should be a very good machine .
-
What's that American company again? The one who makes the best machines?
Not sure you've mentioned them before.....
-
What's that American company again? The one who makes the best machines?
Not sure you've mentioned them before.....
MYTEE :D
I refer to them because they are the most progressive and innovative out there ...
Although i would say the Uk probably has the finest portables in the world at the moment , Ashbys Enforcer , Alltec evolution , airflex turbo/storm :)
You don't still think im a supplier do you ...
Although u spend a lot of time elsewhere and indoctrination is subtle :o
-
Now I can get the popcorn out ;D
No eating while you are performing :P
Jim, you just been bitchslapped you need to come back strong on this one :-\
-
You forget, I don't use electric wheelie bins, therefore completely impartial on the subject which I'm sure your many hours of trawling the forums will tell you ;)
Your own attempts at indoctrination are becoming clear "john" :)
-
Haha.. bitchslapped ;D
What machines do you use John out of interest?
-
Just looked at the MYtee site and they do have some very interesting ideas.
Like the detachable portable for taking up steps which can double as a booster with pump out.
Electric TM looks well thought out.
And their machine look pretty too.
So anyone selling them over here yet?
Mark
-
Mytee are just one I'd say if it wasn't for solutions bring in the triple vac (recoil) and then the 6.6 vacs then may be nobody would make them, alltec made the millennium but that died at the beginning of the century.
Shaun
-
You forget, I don't use electric wheelie bins, therefore completely impartial on the subject which I'm sure your many hours of trawling the forums will tell you ;)
Your own attempts at indoctrination are becoming clear "john" :)
Have no idea what i would be preaching in your agenda fantasy :)
Russ , i have couple of workhorses , getting new gear soon :)
Mytee are available fom Woodbridge , but the choice hasnt been great so far , and they have not adapted their machines best utilize 230v , now they are offering the LTD3 ... but it dosnt have the powerfull electro motors and the low powered heater is not appropriate for a 230v zone ...
The LTD5 and M5 are the ones to get featuring electro motors/ general or cat pumps . Perhaps u can order through woodbridge .
Ashbys philosophy seems to be ... optimize vacuum performance on one cord and leave the other cord for 3000w of heat .
On the website you see they combine ' Heavy duty' 5.7s with ' standard ' 5.7s and even 7.2s
This is to optimize the performance without exceeding 12 or so amps .
The two electro motors in the video look the same , but read the intro note, standard and heavy duty .... one is likely a high power tapered fan motor drawing almost 8 amps and the second a low powered unit only drawing about 4 .
This same combination is used on the Velocity Tech quad ETM , a powerfull two stage electro is combined with a low powered three stage in series ... Lift and cfm is boosted while keeping amp draw low .
-
Constantly side-stepping direct questions, applying spin.
"john" ;)
-
Your not Alistair Campbell are you John ;D I think you would make a very good politician ;D
-
Your not Alistair Campbell are you John ;D I think you would make a very good politician ;D
Alistair Campbell!!!! More like Boris Johnson!!! ;D ;D ;D
-
Did he sing the monster mash? Very apt as Halloween is coming up!
Shaun
-
This should make things a little clearer....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXn5gL3AaBs
Shame Matt had to go to such lengths, however nobody can afford to have their reputation tarnished.
-
This should make things a little clearer....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXn5gL3AaBs
Shame Matt had to go to such lengths, however nobody can afford to have thier reputation tarnished.
Beat me to it Just received the email from Matt. Seems like he is taking action against ashbys. And as offered for both machines to be independently tested. We will see, would be nice to see the Jag in there all together.
Paul
-
Thanks for that ;D well done Cleansmart
Ashbys were pretty foolish to think they could get away with that .
Based on those figures though i really doubt if the twin 6.6 machines ( Storm etc ) are as powerfull as the turbo ... and no matter how u add up the figures it isn't on paper either .
-
I got the same email from Cleansmart with the vid response. I went on to look at the ashbys vid and added the following comment afterwards but I note they are approving all replies before they are posted which is not as open as you would expect - after all they can always delete outrageous or defamatory comments.
I wonder if they will allow mine? here tis.
Viewers should know there is a response by Airflex which contradicts these findings significantly. See it by searching for Airflex Turbo. I have no connection with that company.
It appears that either the testing methods are faulty i.e genuine errors have been made - or one of these parties has deliberately fabricated test results. I note that comments on this channel are being screened before they are 'allowed' - if this 'fair comment' is not allowed then I may draw conclusions from that.
-
Are the 5.7 electro motors more powerfull than the lamb amtech 5.7s as I have the airflex mini in series and is not as powerfull as a turbo, storm or jag
-
Are the 5.7 electro motors more powerfull than the lamb amtech 5.7s as I have the airflex mini in series and is not as powerfull as a turbo, storm or jag
Jim , the 1400w standard lamb ametek three stage has about 100cfm and 137" lift
An Ametek 6.6 two stage has about 139 cfm and 130 " lift
Electro motors are 5.7 but some share a similar fan design to the 6.6
There is a two stage with about 130 cfm and 130" lift
There is a three stage with up to 117 cfm and 150" lift
I believe there are a couple of vertions of the above motors with slightly varying lift and cfm .
The Airflex turbo uses three 100cfm / 137" lamb motors
If you were to swap in electro two stages u could have up to 390cfm and 130" lift
If u swapped in Electro three stages you could have 350cfm and 150" lift
Your series airflex mini has about 100cfm and 220" lift
Hard to compare it to the parallel machines u mention with different or more motors and a series vs parallel configuration .
With the Enforcer ashbys are trying to maximize one cord performance without exceeding about 12amps , so they are using one three stage Electro coupled to a weak second motor ... because the Electro will be near 8amps the second motor must be around 4 .... The Electro gives about 117cfm and about 11HG , the second motor adds 6HG but doesn't contribute to more cfm in a series configuration .
At least thats what i think anyway :)
-
•5.7 inch Heavy Duty 3 Stage plus 7.2 inch Heavy Duty 3 Stage Vacuum System PC7697
- 230 inches of water lift / 17 inches of mercury lift. Will operate up to 200 ft / 61 metres of vacuum hose.
•5.7 inch Standard Performance plus 5.7 inch Heavy Duty Performance 3 Stage Vacuum System PC9951
- 230 inches of water lift / 17 inches of mercury lift. Will operate up to 200 ft / 61 metres of vacuum hose.
•2 x 7.2 inch Heavy Duty 3 Stage Vacuum System PC7668
- 230 inches of water lift / 17 inches of mercury lift. Will operate up to 200 ft / 61 metres of vacuum hose.
•5.7 inch Standard plus 5.7 inch Heavy Duty 3 Stage Vacuum System PC5866
- 230 inches of water lift / 17 inches of mercury lift. Will operate up to 200 ft / 61 metres of vacuum hose.
•2 x 5.7 inch Standard 3 Stage Vacuum System PC2005
- 220 inches of water lift / 16.2 inches of mercury lift. Will operate up to 175 ft / 53.3 metres of vacuum hose.
These are the specs from ashbys site no cfm figures mentioned but I would not like to try the hose lengths :(
-
•5.7 inch Heavy Duty 3 Stage plus 7.2 inch Heavy Duty 3 Stage Vacuum System PC7697
- 230 inches of water lift / 17 inches of mercury lift. Will operate up to 200 ft / 61 metres of vacuum hose.
•5.7 inch Standard Performance plus 5.7 inch Heavy Duty Performance 3 Stage Vacuum System PC9951
- 230 inches of water lift / 17 inches of mercury lift. Will operate up to 200 ft / 61 metres of vacuum hose.
•2 x 7.2 inch Heavy Duty 3 Stage Vacuum System PC7668
- 230 inches of water lift / 17 inches of mercury lift. Will operate up to 200 ft / 61 metres of vacuum hose.
•5.7 inch Standard plus 5.7 inch Heavy Duty 3 Stage Vacuum System PC5866
- 230 inches of water lift / 17 inches of mercury lift. Will operate up to 200 ft / 61 metres of vacuum hose.
•2 x 5.7 inch Standard 3 Stage Vacuum System PC2005
- 220 inches of water lift / 16.2 inches of mercury lift. Will operate up to 175 ft / 53.3 metres of vacuum hose.
These are the specs from ashbys site no cfm figures mentioned but I would not like to try the hose lengths :(
We can guess the CFM of each ... all of the lamb ameteks above are likely to be around 90-100cfm
so any combo with just ameteks in series will have no more than 100cfm
Only the Electro HD they use has more ( 117 ) and the SD motor combined with it will not add to the cfm .
The original video comparing the 6.6 may still be valid , if its just the CFM gauge thats inaccurate then all things equal the series electro setup may still work better under load than a twin 6.6 .
But then u cant trust any aspect of Ashbys vids now .