Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Hard Floor Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Stu Roberts on September 30, 2012, 11:51:52 pm
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Hi,
I was wondering if anyone would be able to give me any tips on what the best method would be to for cleaning a filled travertine tiled floor. The tiles themselves are in a reasonable condition, and more than anything they require a clean and polish. Usually, as with most natural stone floors, I would use a neutral floor cleaning solution followed by a sealant and then to finish I would use a standard 'wipe-on' floor polish.
Is is possible to use a stronger alkaline floor cleaning solution for stripping the tiles of their existing polish and sealant, or would this cause a problem with the stone?
Comments and ideas very much appreciated.
Thanks.
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Really easy
1. Pre wet the floor.
2. Apply a diluted High Alkaline cleaner such as Aqua Mix Heavy Duty Tile & Grout Cleaner and allow to dwell.
3. Then apply some 320 Grit Honing Powder and work in with a soft to medium brush on a rotary.
4. Vac solution up with wet vac.
5. Thoroughly rinse and wet vac again.
6. Once dry seal with good quality water based impregnator sealer such as Aqua Mix Sealers Choice Gold
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
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Very much appreciated Kev. I take it that Aqua Mux sell the cleaning solutions direct?
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Just one more question Kev: I take it that the honing powder is sprinkled onto the alkaline solution and then subsequently worked in the with the rotary machine? What kind of coverage would you get with a 2kg tub?
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Very much appreciated Kev. I take it that Aqua Mux sell the cleaning solutions direct?
We sell all the Aqua Mix Products
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
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Just one more question Kev: I take it that the honing powder is sprinkled onto the alkaline solution and then subsequently worked in the with the rotary machine? What kind of coverage would you get with a 2kg tub?
Stu
It depends on how much you use but my guys get around 50M2 per KG making it a very inexpensive product and added to that the larger sizes you buy it in the cheaper it is: e.g.
HONE 220 Grit
1KG £8.99
2KG £14.99
5KG £24.99
25KG £87.99
These prices are retail + VAT but as a Cleanitup member you get a trade discount so in effect if you buy the larger tub it can be as little as £2.81 a KG that's an amazing £0.05p per M2.
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
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Thanks for your help Kev. I'll give you a bell tomorrow to place an order for the gear that I need.
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Hi, I have travertine tiles in my bathroom. I do not use any special cleaning products just mild soap & it comes up fine. I sealed when I had it tiled now & again will use a little bleach.
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Hi, I have travertine tiles in my bathroom. I do not use any special cleaning products just mild soap & it comes up fine. I sealed when I had it tiled now & again will use a little bleach.
Paul
Absolutely correct but as you said they were probably sealed correctly with the correct product when laid and you maintain them correctly. However, when all is said and done a bathroom does not suffer with High Traffic, Kids on Bikes or dragging toys, pets etc so it should stay clean. Finally a little advice do not use bleach to clean natural stone!
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
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Kev,
Got to say that you're advice was absolutely spot on!! I completed the clean a few weeks back with amazing results and a very, very happy customer. The job has created repeat work and referrals left, right and centre. Hopefully, I'll be coming to you very soon to buy a new rotary scrubber vor more of the same work.
Curious, do you sell a travertine floor maintainer which can be used after the floor has been sealed with sealers choice gold?
Thanks,
Stu.
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Glad it went well Stu, the Rockys that Kev sells are a great bit of kit, you won't be disappointed.
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Kev,
Got to say that you're advice was absolutely spot on!! I completed the clean a few weeks back with amazing results and a very, very happy customer. The job has created repeat work and referrals left, right and centre. Hopefully, I'll be coming to you very soon to buy a new rotary scrubber vor more of the same work.
Curious, do you sell a travertine floor maintainer which can be used after the floor has been sealed with sealers choice gold?
Thanks,
Stu.
Stu
You need some Aqua Mix Concentrated Tile Cleaner or some LC 6 they are both pH neutral cleaners. Also do you leave them with a set of the Floorcare instructions as these are a good way of leaving your details without appearing to be pushy and they call you for products. If you want give me a quick e mail to tilinglogistics@hotmail.com and I will send you a set of my Floor Care Instructions which you can adapt as your own!
Kev Martin
Ting Logistics
Marblelife Ltd
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Stu,
There's a very simple process without using any cleaning solutions or honing powders, although that process works well it can be very time consuming, messy and more expensive than this process I'm just about to suggest.
Have you tried using non woven diamond pads, HTC Twister, KGS or Rhino Diamond pads, all you need is a weighted 40-50kg swing machine, polisher scrubber 16-17" drive board and clean water.
Using these quality pads you will acheive everything you can with specialist cleaning solutions and powders without the mess, saving time and extra cost... if you want to know more check out the companies websites mentioned for more information of this innovative cleaning and polishing process, or let me know and I'll point you in the right direction.
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Stu,
There's a very simple process without using any cleaning solutions or honing powders, although that process works well it can be very time consuming, messy and more expensive than this process I'm just about to suggest.
Have you tried using non woven diamond pads, HTC Twister, KGS or Rhino Diamond pads, all you need is a weighted 40-50kg swing machine, polisher scrubber 16-17" drive board and clean water.
Using these quality pads you will acheive everything you can with specialist cleaning solutions and powders without the mess, saving time and extra cost... if you want to know more check out the companies websites mentioned for more information of this innovative cleaning and polishing process, or let me know and I'll point you in the right direction.
Jason
I cannot believe this post!!! Why are you trying to tell forum members that Diamond Pads will work on this stone and moreover achieve the same results as a high alkaline and honing powder??? Furthermore even if Diamond Pads did work which they don't they would still create a slurry and you would have to rinse afterwards and finally they are a lot more expensive anyway!!!
Lets Look at the post step by step:
"There's a very simple process without using any cleaning solutions or honing powders, although that process works well it can be very time consuming, messy and more expensive than this process I'm just about to suggest"
1. The method I suggested as you have stated not only works well, it works 5 x better and it cleans the grout and pits and fissures as well.
2. Time consuming??? What planet are you on? How many floors have you done with our honing powder? Have you even tried it?
3. Messy? So pads don't create slurry then or the floor will not require rinsing afterwards???
4. So diamond pads will do a 100M2 floor for less than £10 will they?
"Have you tried using non woven diamond pads, HTC Twister, KGS or Rhino Diamond pads, all you need is a weighted 40-50kg swing machine, polisher scrubber 16-17" drive board and clean water"
1. Yes I have tried 100's of them including Klindex. KGS, Twiister, Cheetah, Monkey etc, etc they are all the same in varying degrees!!!!
2. Or are you going to tell me that the Rhino Pads you sell are the Best of the Best and I can forget the other 30+ Brands I have tried??? If so send me or sell me a set and Iwill trial them for you!
3. Even if they did work why do you need so much weight??? Having done 10's of 1000's M2 stone renovation and restoration Diamond Pads work by allowing the pad to do the work not by relying on weight. Pads work just as well without weight and don't wear so quickly!
4. Finally don't forget I sell pads as well in 4",6" 8", 12" 15" 17" & 20" and yes we sell 1000's but they are not the answer in this application!
"Using these quality pads you will acheive everything you can with specialist cleaning solutions and powders without the mess, saving time and extra cost... if you want to know more check out the companies websites mentioned for more information of this innovative cleaning and polishing process, or let me know and I'll point you in the right direction."
I have already told you the arguments against this final paragraph!
Ultimately your post is trying to get people to buy Pads and not guiding them towards the right process to restore a travertine floor.
Please remember that my posts offering advice and guidance are based on experience in the constant cleaning and restoration of floors! If pads were the answer then I would have said so!
Kevin Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
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You can delete this post again if you want, but there is only one person here who is being aggresive and rude. Manners cost nothing, and if my opinions are only seen as advertising then it's because someone feels threathened.
I have actually spent more time in this industry than Kevin, cleaning and restoring tile and stone floors so I have a lot to offer this forum and the memebrs which I am happy to do.
Free and unbiased, but surely just because you don't pay to advertise you should be able to offer alternative products and processes, or are the Forum moderators going to continue allowing Kevin to have a monopoly and give incorrect over spec information?
I will be happy to pay for advertising as long as I can offer my knowledge without fear of receiving aggression from other forum members.
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Jason
I bow to your superior knowledge and I am constantly striving to improve my own knowledge, however whether you see my post as agressive or not your advice in this instance to restore a travertine floor with diamond pads was wrong! I am sorry you disliked me challenging that and saw it as agressive!
Welcome to the forums and I for one genuinely look forward to your future informative posts!
Kev Martin
Marblelife ltd
Tiling Logistics
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Thank you Kevin, I don't mind a debate as long as it's a civil non aggressive one.
The whole reason for forums is to learn, people having a difference of opinion is normal. We both have a vast expanse of field experience and knowledge with differing processes that work.
I stand by my post as it is a successful tried and tested process partaken by many different professional companies within this industry.
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Kev Martin has been a regular contributor on here for a long time I hope that new posters can respect and temper their enthusiasm, we do need different view points but please respect the forum, each other and remember your customers are also watching and reading your posts.
Shaun
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Kev,
Got to say that you're advice was absolutely spot on!! I completed the clean a few weeks back with amazing results and a very, very happy customer. The job has created repeat work and referrals left, right and centre. Hopefully, I'll be coming to you very soon to buy a new rotary scrubber vor more of the same work.
Curious, do you sell a travertine floor maintainer which can be used after the floor has been sealed with sealers choice gold?
Thanks,
Stu.
Stu
You need some Aqua Mix Concentrated Tile Cleaner or some LC 6 they are both pH neutral cleaners. Also do you leave them with a set of the Floorcare instructions as these are a good way of leaving your details without appearing to be pushy and they call you for products. If you want give me a quick e mail to tilinglogistics@hotmail.com and I will send you a set of my Floor Care Instructions which you can adapt as your own!
Kev Martin
Ting Logistics
Marblelife Ltd
Kev,
Nope, haven't left anyone with a set of floor cleaning or care instructions as yet, although I do like the sound of that. A copy of what you use would be of great help. My email is stuart@cheshirecarpetclinic.co.uk.
How much do you sell the above cleaning solutions for?
Cheers,
Stu.
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Have to say chaps, the thread made for some very entertaining and interesting reading... Not sure I would entertain the idea of diamond pads with travertine due to the results I had on this job. Although, I'm always open to new ways of working.
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Kev,
Got to say that you're advice was absolutely spot on!! I completed the clean a few weeks back with amazing results and a very, very happy customer. The job has created repeat work and referrals left, right and centre. Hopefully, I'll be coming to you very soon to buy a new rotary scrubber vor more of the same work.
Curious, do you sell a travertine floor maintainer which can be used after the floor has been sealed with sealers choice gold?
Thanks,
Stu.
Stu
You need some Aqua Mix Concentrated Tile Cleaner or some LC 6 they are both pH neutral cleaners. Also do you leave them with a set of the Floorcare instructions as these are a good way of leaving your details without appearing to be pushy and they call you for products. If you want give me a quick e mail to tilinglogistics@hotmail.com and I will send you a set of my Floor Care Instructions which you can adapt as your own!
Kev Martin
Ting Logistics
Marblelife Ltd
Kev,
Nope, haven't left anyone with a set of floor cleaning or care instructions as yet, although I do like the sound of that. A copy of what you use would be of great help. My email is stuart@cheshirecarpetclinic.co.uk.
How much do you sell the above cleaning solutions for?
Cheers,
Stu.
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Stu
E Mail sent with the Floor Care instructions and the prices you asked for
Kev
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Have to say chaps, the thread made for some very entertaining and interesting reading... Not sure I would entertain the idea of diamond pads with travertine due to the results I had on this job. Although, I'm always open to new ways of working.
Hi Stu, as pointed out already there are lots of different ways to achieve the same aim. Which one you choose is down to the individual, I use pads because they are easy (stick them on and go), we use them on lots of different materials and they work well for cleaning, maintaining and buffing of tile & stone. The main thing to remember with diamond pads such as twisters, kgs and 3m pads is that they can only do so much, they will not remove lippage or major scratches from floors, but they will smooth deep scratches and remove fine scratches, add gloss and reflectivity a floor.
I've attached a couple of photos of a travertine floor we did before christmas. A very quick job for two guys, we used 3 pads on a 150 rpm numatic, a little pH neutral cleaners and some extra weight on the machine, a long handle grout brush for the joints. 55m2 cleaned in a morning, sealed after lunch; easy peasy.
Naturally the finish doesn't have the clarity of a full grind and polish, but neither does it have the associated cost. Any easy mornings work.
(http://c56d5ff648c653550b99-93673e61f27859d87edf18c2317fc2be.r98.cf2.rackcdn.com/before2.jpg)
(http://c56d5ff648c653550b99-93673e61f27859d87edf18c2317fc2be.r98.cf2.rackcdn.com/after1.jpg)
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Hi, I too use diamond pads frequently for polished stone, especially for maintenance programmes.
Each method has it's merits and negatives so it is up to the professional to use the best method for each situation.
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Have to say chaps, the thread made for some very entertaining and interesting reading... Not sure I would entertain the idea of diamond pads with travertine due to the results I had on this job. Although, I'm always open to new ways of working.
Hi Stu, as pointed out already there are lots of different ways to achieve the same aim. Which one you choose is down to the individual, I use pads because they are easy (stick them on and go), we use them on lots of different materials and they work well for cleaning, maintaining and buffing of tile & stone. The main thing to remember with diamond pads such as twisters, kgs and 3m pads is that they can only do so much, they will not remove lippage or major scratches from floors, but they will smooth deep scratches and remove fine scratches, add gloss and reflectivity a floor.
I've attached a couple of photos of a travertine floor we did before christmas. A very quick job for two guys, we used 3 pads on a 150 rpm numatic, a little pH neutral cleaners and some extra weight on the machine, a long handle grout brush for the joints. 55m2 cleaned in a morning, sealed after lunch; easy peasy.
Naturally the finish doesn't have the clarity of a full grind and polish, but neither does it have the associated cost. Any easy mornings work.
(http://c56d5ff648c653550b99-93673e61f27859d87edf18c2317fc2be.r98.cf2.rackcdn.com/before2.jpg)
(http://c56d5ff648c653550b99-93673e61f27859d87edf18c2317fc2be.r98.cf2.rackcdn.com/after1.jpg)
Dave
You are going way off track here and digressing towards a different thing!
The original thread was discussing how best to deep clean travertine! Period! So without you telling me I am getting agressive polishing was not mentioned! However, I stand by what I said and had you used a soft to medium brush instead of a pad and added a little honing powder to your high alkaline the brush would have cleaned all the pits and fissures in the stone and brought all the grout up immaculate as well as leaving the stone with a very even appearance.
Think about it you have a roughish textured surface with recessed grout lines!!!! So how can a FLAT PAD be as efficient as a brush???
Then if you had polished it would have looked better!
This is not a slur on you or anyone elses ability or me trying to rubbish the final result of your photos!
Finally I lose the will to live when people want Travertine highly polished like this because it can never look right when polished and will always look uneven due to the different properties. So no matter what it will always look uneven when polished. Let's face it if it was meant to be polished the Romans would have done it when they built the Colosseum in Rome.
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
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Kevin,
This is an advice forum and I was offering advice to the post I quoted. I'm sure most would agree there is no need to turn every thread into a p'ing contest, it is tiresome at best. You offer your advice and I'll offer mine.
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Dave
The truth clearly hurts!
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
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Dave
The truth clearly hurts!
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
Hardly Kevin, when you're right I'll let you know ;)
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Most of the travertine I do is polished, obviously the customers like it.
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Most of the travertine I do is polished, obviously the customers like it.
Agreed. There's load of it out there, it looks nice, its easy to work with and if the customer likes it.... even better.
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Most of the travertine I do is polished, obviously the customers like it.
Agreed. There's load of it out there, it looks nice, its easy to work with and if the customer likes it.... even better.
👍
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After receiving Kevin's very strong opiniated reply it got me thinking, maybe after 12 years of cleaning & restoring and trying most processes available I had missed something. These specialist manufacturers who have come up with my recommended innovation of non-woven diamond pads, which I and I see a couple of members are now fans of. My thinking needed confirmation, so I and a couple of my sales guys got on the phones to the professionals out there, I must admit we avoided phoning Marble Life. Since the early part of the week we've contacted approximately 25-30 floor cleaning and restoration companies to ask what process do they use to clean and hone stone floors? The honest majority consensus was if there wasn't a need for resin bonded diamonds they would use a non-woven pad over powders.
Whether you like them or not Kevin, they are more popular than you believe and more people use pads than powders, not for polishing but for cleaning and honing which was what this topic was about. Also if these pads don't work then HTC, Klindex & KGS need to pack it in and leave you to covert everyone back to honing powders, plenty of people to convert from what information we gathered this week.
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I believe there is now a hardener system available to treat Travertine before polishing to get a uniform finish between resin and stone.
Not tried it personally. Its possibly similar to the densifier used for concrete polishing but looking forward to trying it as I work with an Italian family who own a Travertino quarry and like to use diamond polished epoxy resin coatings to get a uniform appearance.
With regard to the pads vs honing powder that this thread has become I will share my 2 pence worth.
We are distributors of both 3M and KGS "diamond".
We are also contractors and find ourselves using honing powders more and more often now that an extended range of grits has become available in the restoration industry.
If a floor has been previously flattened we will use the pad system usually followed by polishing powder but if it is new with lippage that the customer doesn't want to spend money removing we will use honing powders as I feel that the coating is removed too quickly by the pads coating being shaved off to be cost effective.
So whilst sitting on the fence I can see the argument for the use of either system and we evaluate each job and use whichever is going to work best for that application.
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Jason
Kevin is under no illusions of how popular pads systems are, your just in a long list that have tagged it on to your business. It is not possible to achieve a high gloss with just honing powders and polishing powder.
What we would do as follows for a dirty floor, will use above as a example if you don't mind.
In the case of above we would probably go with a 800 grit honing powder with a brush attachment with a ph neutral cleaner perhaps even a very diluted high alkaline cleaner, the reason as Kevin has stated that a pad just will not get into any of the pits or grout joints. Then a good rinse and vac.
Then we would go over it with a super shine no.3 rinse and vac again
Then polish it.
Now what Kevin hates about pads is that they are seen and sold to be the answer to restoration problems and replace resin diamonds which I'm sure you would agree.
Thank you Jamie for bringing such a great post.
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Tony, I never mentioned restoration I am as aware as you or anyone else what they are capable of achieving.
Thanks for your sensible replies including CSUK, a little different to Kevin's initial one of "I can't believe this post"
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Your welcome, I think it's best for everyone to drop this post now. Even though it makes for excellent reading on different techniques carried out in our industry
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Your welcome, I think it's best for everyone to drop this post now. Even though it makes for excellent reading on different techniques carried out in our industry
I suggested that hours ago :-\
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After receiving Kevin's very strong opiniated reply it got me thinking, maybe after 12 years of cleaning & restoring and trying most processes available I had missed something. These specialist manufacturers who have come up with my recommended innovation of non-woven diamond pads, which I and I see a couple of members are now fans of. My thinking needed confirmation, so I and a couple of my sales guys got on the phones to the professionals out there, I must admit we avoided phoning Marble Life. Since the early part of the week we've contacted approximately 25-30 floor cleaning and restoration companies to ask what process do they use to clean and hone stone floors? The honest majority consensus was if there wasn't a need for resin bonded diamonds they would use a non-woven pad over powders.
Whether you like them or not Kevin, they are more popular than you believe and more people use pads than powders, not for polishing but for cleaning and honing which was what this topic was about. Also if these pads don't work then HTC, Klindex & KGS need to pack it in and leave you to covert everyone back to honing powders, plenty of people to convert from what information we gathered this week.
Jason
Your right I don't like pads at all and Honing Powder is a more efficient and better method but that has already been stated.
However, no matter how many times I say it both you and Dave cannot get it into your skulls that I don't give a monkeys whether you or anyone else use Honing Powder or Pads. I sell 100's of pads every week and I am the only one selling them in such a wide variety of sizes so it's a win win situation for me.
So long may pads continue!!!
Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
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Your tone says otherwise :P
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Thanks for the posts guys - let's leave it there and agree to disagree.
The forum is a mine of information to learn, share, support and grow
for members.
We thank all those for their input and hope we can all exist together
for the better of the forum.
Thanks.
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