Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Lee Burbidge on September 29, 2012, 10:59:28 am
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http://www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk/blog/is-your-business-incomplete-without-trade-representation/
This topic has been debated a few times. My thoughts......... your responses, more questions asked about us and about them.
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(Advertise/canvass) Potential customer rings, give quote, house holder agrees to price/frequency, clean house/building, get paid.
So I guess that's a no.
I have yet to be told anything that would change my mind. I've asked, but nobody can give me a good answer as to why I should join a federation.
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Yes and no
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(Advertise/canvass) Potential customer rings, give quote, house holder agrees to price/frequency, clean house/building, get paid.
So I guess that's a no.
I have yet to be told anything that would change my mind. I've asked, but nobody can give me a good answer as to why I should join a federation.
Can't help but agree with this man.
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"Why are window cleaners not seeing that the joining of a trade body is as important as buying a bucket and squeegee?.".......bucket and squeegee" bring in money,not take it away
Why do i need to join a organisation to preform my daily business functions?...i Dont
Will it set me a part from other w/cs....No,there are good professional window cleaners across the uk joining a organisation will not make them any better(imo) and if i do join does that mean i am more professional and not a cowboy?...no i dont think so unless i am a cowboy but then you did bring that up a few days ago on here and as we can see there are many definitions of a cowboy
Will it help sell my business to the customer on the door...no,price(predominately) and service are what counts not a logo,it may help with commercial work but i am not really interested in commercial
It may help with up to date information regarding health and safety issues but then so does the CIU and thats free
IN MY OPINION for the average sole trader this is a waste of money it will not enhance your business in any way as long as this industry is not regulated,ie licences or nvq being a minimum requirement only then will this put window cleaners in a different light to the public and the likes of the FWC will have more of a say and influence.
I have been in many organisations as a Plumber,Driving Instructor,being in the umbrella organisations doesn't do anything for your business but having all the right qualifications in the industry's i have worked in does and thats the difference
i look forward to any ones responses........let the argument begin :D
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"Why are window cleaners not seeing that the joining of a trade body is as important as buying a bucket and squeegee?.".......bucket and squeegee" bring in money,not take it away
Why do i need to join a organisation to preform my daily business functions?...i Dont
Will it set me a part from other w/cs....No,there are good professional window cleaners across the uk joining a organisation will not make them any better(imo) and if i do join does that mean i am more professional and not a cowboy?...no i dont think so unless i am a cowboy but then you did bring that up a few days ago on here and as we can see there are many definitions of a cowboy
Will it help sell my business to the customer on the door...no,price(predominately) and service are what counts not a logo,it may help with commercial work but i am not really interested in commercial
It may help with up to date information regarding health and safety issues but then so does the CIU and thats free
IN MY OPINION for the average sole trader this is a waste of money it will not enhance your business in any way as long as this industry is not regulated,ie licences or nvq being a minimum requirement only then will this put window cleaners in a different light to the public and the likes of the FWC will have more of a say and influence.
I have been in many organisations as a Plumber,Driving Instructor,being in the umbrella organisations doesn't do anything for your business but having all the right qualifications in the industry's i have worked in does and thats the difference
i look forward to any ones responses........let the argument begin :D
Totally agree with this. I am a sole trader and organisations related to my work are for me, a complete waste of time.
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I was once a member of the Federation of master window and general cleaners association, tbh I don't think it improved my business, no client ever asked if I was a member and although they sent me some hse info and PDF logo's for the van - I dropped them after 2 years membership.
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(Advertise/canvass) Potential customer rings, give quote, house holder agrees to price/frequency, clean house/building, get paid.
So I guess that's a no.
I have yet to be told anything that would change my mind. I've asked, but nobody can give me a good answer as to why I should join a federation.
Hey mayet, just seen your post.... what would change your mind?
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Yes and no
Why a yes and why a no? ;D
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(Advertise/canvass) Potential customer rings, give quote, house holder agrees to price/frequency, clean house/building, get paid.
So I guess that's a no.
I have yet to be told anything that would change my mind. I've asked, but nobody can give me a good answer as to why I should join a federation.
Can't help but agree with this man.
I do see his point but INO what would change things for you? Have you seen whats on offer at WCRA for it members, for example? Is that more the type of trade bod support you would like?
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I have been in many organisations as a Plumber,Driving Instructor,being in the umbrella organisations
didnt know you worked in the umbrella trade Bob ;D
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"Why are window cleaners not seeing that the joining of a trade body is as important as buying a bucket and squeegee?.".......bucket and squeegee" bring in money,not take it away
Why do i need to join a organisation to preform my daily business functions?...i Dont
Will it set me a part from other w/cs....No,there are good professional window cleaners across the uk joining a organisation will not make them any better(imo) and if i do join does that mean i am more professional and not a cowboy?...no i dont think so unless i am a cowboy but then you did bring that up a few days ago on here and as we can see there are many definitions of a cowboy
Will it help sell my business to the customer on the door...no,price(predominately) and service are what counts not a logo,it may help with commercial work but i am not really interested in commercial
It may help with up to date information regarding health and safety issues but then so does the CIU and thats free
IN MY OPINION for the average sole trader this is a waste of money it will not enhance your business in any way as long as this industry is not regulated,ie licences or nvq being a minimum requirement only then will this put window cleaners in a different light to the public and the likes of the FWC will have more of a say and influence.
I have been in many organisations as a Plumber,Driving Instructor,being in the umbrella organisations doesn't do anything for your business but having all the right qualifications in the industry's i have worked in does and thats the difference
i look forward to any ones responses........let the argument begin :D
Good point, what do you consider would help your business? Sole traders have to be supported more by trade bod's?
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I was once a member of the Federation of master window and general cleaners association, tbh I don't think it improved my business, no client ever asked if I was a member and although they sent me some hse info and PDF logo's for the van - I dropped them after 2 years membership.
Why did you join in the first place? What did you expect from joining? And what was missing for you to drop the Fed? ;D
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I have been in many organisations as a Plumber,Driving Instructor,being in the umbrella organisations
didnt know you worked in the umbrella trade Bob ;D
lol
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Yes and no
Why a yes and why a no? ;D
No if your just doing normal residential but Ive been thinking of going after some large properties and from an apperance point of view it may look better in the rich posh customers eyes i.e. professional / legitamite etc etc however in reality we all know this dont gurantee anything its just appearance.
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Yes and no
Why a yes and why a no? ;D
No if your just doing normal residential but Ive been thinking of going after some large properties and from an apperance point of view it may look better in the rich posh customers eyes i.e. professional / legitamite etc etc however in reality we all know this dont gurantee anything its just appearance.
I guess. Is it fair to say that if somebody is not a member of any trade bod it may be viewed as an oversight by potential customers who may wonder what else this window cleaner does not bother with? Admittedly resi customer are not too bothered but in this area trade bod representation may offer a small comfort of professionalism since the market might be flooded with less professional window cleaners that choose not even to take out a liability insurance?
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I am a member of the FSB they cater for all small businesses and offer more than just a free magazine and a sticky label for the van.
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and what about the windys who claim to be in a trade organisation and actually are not.
what do they do about this?
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i am a member of the federation and to be honest dont think it does enough for our industry ie clarryfying work at height regulations into set dos and donts for fed members, as for helping sole traders my father who was a member of federation in the 60s remembers that if a member was off work due to illness or a fall etc other members would carry out his round and give the ill membere a percentage of the money to live on till he was better its a shame the same trust of members doesnt exist today.
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I was once a member of the Federation of master window and general cleaners association, tbh I don't think it improved my business, no client ever asked if I was a member and although they sent me some hse info and PDF logo's for the van - I dropped them after 2 years membership.
Why did you join in the first place? What did you expect from joining? And what was missing for you to drop the Fed? ;D
Tbh I was starting out when I joined, I didnt really know what I wanted except that by joining and being able to use the logo it would improve my image and set me apart from the competition. During the membership I didn't feel it was making much of a difference, it wasnt recognised enough, and it wasn't even regulated, phone up pay your subs that was it, no quality control. I understood that it was never going to be like 'corgi' is for plumbers, but I would only want in again if window cleaning had to have a governing body and I don't think that will ever happen, do you?
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Hi All
I would like to put a different concept to this topic
I have been involved with FWC for the past 20 years
A trade association is there to represent the window cleaning industry, you might ask me how as this been achieved.
When health and safety went ballistic a few years ago, meetings were held to see what we can do to prevent accidents and make our industry safer
The FWC attended all these meetings and started to formulate different ways to get the message to its members.
Window talk
Video now DVD
Guidance sheets
Training (Safe use of ladders and WFP and risk assessment IOSH accredited)
WAHR
Work at height regulations started in 2000 and finished in 2005 as regulations
First on the list was banning ladders, again lots of meetings, emails, phone calls.
As you see it took 5 years to get things right and be made as a regulation
The FWC had a lot of input into why we should keep ladders in our industry
NVQ / QCF
The FWC helped advice what will be expected for a window cleaner to gain this certificate
In all what a window cleaner does every day
The best bit is this took 4 drafts till they got it right
Again 3 years later
Defra and the water drought
The FWC organised meetings with the key industry persons and defra to explain that window cleaning cannot be banned from using a hose pipe
Key persons
Health and safety executive
FWC
CSSA
Steve Lowe
Craig Molem
All the above people need a pat on the back for what they achieved with the drought problem
Trade shows
Not going to say a lot about this only, I do not think people think of the time, cost and discussions it takes to make trade shows happen
But when negative things get said the best ones spring to mind
I walked round it in 10 minutes and went home it was crap
To far
Just ask Dave from st ives how much ££££ he as made from trade shows
Just a quick question
How many of you applied for tickets vanfeast and failed to go?
These are just a few reasons we need a trade association that actually does what it supposed to do
Represent its industry
I could go on but this is just a few of the things that come mind
On here pepole will say none of this as effected me, but they have gained from what the FWC as achieved
Bryan
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Trev
Must be one of the lucky ones
One of the local window cleaners very ill
The lads are looking after is round as we speak
Understand your question about working at height but maybe need to clarify were and what
Does it not say in the guidence sheets? (FWC website)
Bryan
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Hi Brian.... I joined the FWC back in 1999 and although I feel I made a good choice, I hear and see a lot. I want to know if you feel that the FWC has lost any credibility with in the industry wether that be industry leaders or window cleaners.
It feels that way when I net work. What do you think might be happening here?
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Hi Lee
I feel the FWC is still on the right track and not lost any credibility in industry
We live in a negative world
You have look at 90% of the feedback on this site about any subject
Every time you see some thing about the FWC it’s the same people negative answers stirring the same old subjects
Nobody saying thanks for talking to defra or the HSE
The only way I think it is letting its members down is maybe electrically
Internet
Web site
Forum
Member list on website
Getting information to its members
Articles about window cleaning
What is current in our industry?
New products
We all know there is still a recession out there and not a lot of money
Windex cancelled
Could do with some new younger committee members who are really interested in changes for the window cleaning industry
Bryan
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Hi Lee
I feel the FWC is still on the right track and not lost any credibility in industry
We live in a negative world
You have look at 90% of the feedback on this site about any subject
Every time you see some thing about the FWC it’s the same people negative answers stirring the same old subjects
Nobody saying thanks for talking to defra or the HSE
The only way I think it is letting its members down is maybe electrically
Internet
Web site
Forum
Member list on website
Getting information to its members
Articles about window cleaning
What is current in our industry?
New products
We all know there is still a recession out there and not a lot of money
Windex cancelled
Could do with some new younger committee members who are really interested in changes for the window cleaning industry
Bryan
Like me, maybe ;)
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http://www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk/blog/unger-uk-demo-day-at-the-fwc/
Open to non members as well as members.....
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Trev
Must be one of the lucky ones
One of the local window cleaners very ill
The lads are looking after is round as we speak
Understand your question about working at height but maybe need to clarify were and what
Does it not say in the guidence sheets? (FWC website)
Bryan
Thanks for the reply Bryan and for pointing out the unseen work the fed does, i am currently in process of going through the impact 43 qaulification when i have finished all the dates i will send you a list on what i feel the work at height regs fail when applied in conjunction with other regs, i ndont expect the fed to be able to sort these but at least be able to make the HSE aware of the problems
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Hi Lee
You are very keen to make changes and report back to window cleaners
That is a good thing to be involed with
Good article for Your mag
Interview with Dave Morris
Maybe you should think about joining FWC committee (Dave Morris also)
Hi Trev
Hope you are enjoying your QCF course
Alot of information to take in and paper work
I think QCF is the way forward for our industry
The FWC as a good relationship with HSE so they can answer your questions or send the questions to one of the HSE forums that they are involed with
Bryan
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mmmm good idea... what you think David? ;D