Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: David Salkeld on September 27, 2012, 07:52:01 pm
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Hi folks,
Been thinking......
I have a DIY Trailer system. I think it is better to have your own designed system as if something fails you can fix it quickly.
If you have a commercial system and it goes wrong you're in the hands of the manufacturer. Possibly waiting to get back up and running.
What are your thoughts?
David
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Although I've only been wfp for a short time and do not know the benefits of a fitted system I do know my DIY set up, and have all the spares I need should something let me down. Actually enjoying getting to know my own set up and not relying on some company to bail me out, why bother and if you are really stuck I've found this forum a top bail out so far.
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Diy is good for the fixing side of things but the way i see it is if i had employees working the vans for me i would want a professionally fitted tank because if i fitted the tank and it hurt a member of staff in a accident i would be the one getting the blame ( worst case the tank comes loose someone dies and i would be up for man slaughter )
If i had a professional fitted tank it would nolonger be my fault as i have taken steps to have the tank fitted by a professional thrid party
Paul
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Why are you n the hands of the manufacturer?
With an ionics system, I can see possibly why, but from what I see, the others seem to use off the shelf components and connectors, just the cages differ, and now some tanks.
The pump and controller are the same as we can all buy, as are taps, connectors etc.
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Diy is good for the fixing side of things but the way i see it is if i had employees working the vans for me i would want a professionally fitted tank because if i fitted the tank and it hurt a member of staff in a accident i would be the one getting the blame ( worst case the tank comes loose someone dies and i would be up for man slaughter )
If i had a professional fitted tank it would nolonger be my fault as i have taken steps to have the tank fitted by a professional thrid party
Paul
Yes, I agree. If I did a 2 man van setup with a 500- 650ltr tank I would have the tank fitted professionally.
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Buy a ionics system and do a weekly back wash, and a daily salt wash, and it wont need fixing.
Why make something that is properly crap and breaks down on a regular basis? you are already on about fixing it and you haven't built it yet. Buy a Manufactured system and look after it doesn't have to be ionics.
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DIY is fine. My diy works perfectly thank you. and guess what it cleans windows just like a bought system.....amazing! Has done for the last 9 years.
If you want to shell out a lot more money because you lack the competence and confidence then that's your problem.
As long as you do it properly diy is fine.
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Hi,
Please can anyone tell me how PureFreedom and Brodex secure their tanks to the floor of the van. Do they secure these through the chassis or on spreader plates under the floor.
Thanks
Spruce
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Other than looking nice can someone tell me why a manufactured system is better than DIY when ultimately they both do the same thing?
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I fail to see how a system can break down , all it is is a big box of water going to a hose going to a pump that is simply wired to a flow controller then another bit of hose going to a di vessel and then to a hose reel , AND THEN YOU STICK A POLE ON THE END !!!!!
Come on guys , it aint rocket science , i am diy and know every bit of my system inside out , i never get a problem , due to the fact that its my baby and not ionics , saying that i bet i could have any suppliers system put in my van and should a prob arise would have it sorted in a shot !
The beauty of diy , simple and it cleans as good as any 5k system (FACT)
If i could change any part of my system it would be a move to a crash tested and big boy mounted tank and thats it , the rest of the pro gubbins is pants !
Rich
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DIY is fine. My diy works perfectly thank you. and guess what it cleans windows just like a bought system.....amazing! Has done for the last 9 years.
If you want to shell out a lot more money because you lack the competence and confidence then that's your problem.
As long as you do it properly diy is fine.
well said! i have to agree with this. diy is great you can fit in into any size and shape to suit your needs, not like the brought ones that you have to have a big van for due tho the weight of them!
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Water tank and a pump/battery box in the the back of a pick up truck , very straight forward do not see the point of dpending thousands of pounds insyead of hundreds, Mike
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Why are you n the hands of the manufacturer?
With an ionics system, I can see possibly why, but from what I see, the others seem to use off the shelf components and connectors, just the cages differ, and now some tanks.
The pump and controller are the same as we can all buy, as are taps, connectors etc.
if you change or mess about with the systems you could voild any warranty you get with it, so that means you need to go back to them to get things sorted?? maybe??
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my diy system only cost £2500 and that includes buying the van, setting it up for 2 people with seperate pumps for wfp and set up for full trad gear for two. plus all poles etc.
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Other than looking nice can someone tell me why a manufactured system is better than DIY when ultimately they both do the same thing?
apart from a proffessionally fitted frame there is no difference.
Mine is diy, has been for 7 years. A pump will wear out on a diy or manufactured system, same goes for hose reels, connectors etc.
A simple diy system will cost you a lot less. Simple is definately the way to go = pure water in a tank and a pump and reel powered by a battery, any thing else is bells and whistles.
The only things to fail, maybe a fuse or a hose connector are all readily available everywhere.
Simon
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Other than looking nice can someone tell me why a manufactured system is better than DIY when ultimately they both do the same thing?
apart from a proffessionally fitted frame there is no difference.
Mine is diy, has been for 7 years. A pump will wear out on a diy or manufactured system, same goes for hose reels, connectors etc.
A simple diy system will cost you a lot less. Simple is definately the way to go = pure water in a tank and a pump and reel powered by a battery, any thing else is bells and whistles.
The only things to fail, maybe a fuse or a hose connector are all readily available everywhere.
Simon
I agree Simon, I got onto wfp by a fellow wc who has had his DIY system 5 years or so. I remember his first comment on DIY vs fitted - 'why pay more'.
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Make the water pure...get it to the windows...simple
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A few years ago when I first started on here and went WFP some one quoted.......
KISS.........
Keep It Simple Stupid ;)
I've always kept that in mind when DIY WFP ;)
David
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Many can Thanks DIY WFP MATT ( google him as he is banned from here ) for stepping up and pushing the idea many years ago
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Many can Thanks DIY WFP MATT ( google him as he is banned from here ) for stepping up and pushing the idea many years ago
yeah i agree his diy site was where i got my 1st proper understanding of a wfp setup. He used to take loads of stick back when manufacturers used to post on here.
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Many can Thanks DIY WFP MATT ( google him as he is banned from here ) for stepping up and pushing the idea many years ago
HERE HERE ;)
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diy all the way .why pay thousands on a posh looking tank .and be a prisoner to buying there spares .and haveing to take days of becouse i had leaky or broken parts /if i have a problam now i can nip to b&q or to a local window cleaning shop and fix it my self .instead of takeing a full day of work and driveing miles to where you bought your set up from and pray they had spares in stock.
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I am very pleasantly surprised to here so many DIY folks on here :D
When I first went WFP in 2006 I came on here to get the idea.
Back then there were people like..
Jeff Brimble,
Jouk 4
Matt,
Oh and a guy.......I forget his name...he did a battery tutorial.
Was an alarm engineer.
Built a trailer system. Anyone remember him?
It was him who said KISS
And Tosh had a BP, Barrels, and Unger Ali poles.
Then there was.......Squeaky.........
"You and your bog brushes"
Then went WFP !!
I'm proud of my DIY trailer........works well.........still needs one or two things tyding up
But it works well and earns me a good living.
David
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i stick with my 8k system and you can all stick with your crappy diy rubbish :P :P ;) ;) ;)
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Pure freedom trolley plumbed into a secondhand 350 tank for me. Love it!
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Pure freedom trolley plumbed into a secondhand 350 tank for me. Love it!
Pure Freedom are a good firm, local to me. There trolley is excellent.
But I have a DIY one, jus as good, for half the price.
You see, not everyone wants to spend hours building their own system.
But a lot, like me, enjoy it :D
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Just changed vans and built my own 500 litre system - took my time - done wiring properly soldered and hidden - currently tank in with a ratchet strap against bulkhead - best of both worlds would be to get tank and frame fitted proffesionally and do rest yourself.
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Combination of both. I've got the GrippaMax 650 tank and restraint system, but everything around it is DIY (doesn't look DIY though). I like it that way, I know exactly what I want and how I want it. No system installer can do that for me.
My first system had a Purefreedom 400L cage, but again everything around it was DIY.
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Combination of both. I've got the GrippaMax 650 tank and restraint system, but everything around it is DIY (doesn't look DIY though). I like it that way, I know exactly what I want and how I want it. No system installer can do that for me.
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My first system had a Purefreedom 400L cage, but again everything around it was DIY.
Hi Tim
How is this Grippamax system secured underneath please?
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DIY is fine. My diy works perfectly thank you. and guess what it cleans windows just like a bought system.....amazing! Has done for the last 9 years.
If you want to shell out a lot more money because you lack the competence and confidence then that's your problem.
As long as you do it properly diy is fine.
Good for you, but what most forget, if say you make one of them crappy harris poles and it breaks and does damage to property or say a parked car you are not covered Fact, Have an accident in your van with your home made system and you haven't had it fitted properly your brown bread. A neighbour of mine is a loss adjuster he told me he will look at all loop holes not pay a claim. When I set my Business up he gave me very good advice that is why I brought ionics systems because they are sledge tested and crash test to thatcham requirements. He also said if i did a modification to my van( Having a System fitted is), and its not fitted by a recognised trader IE pure freedom, ionics, they may well not pay out. I will carry on with my fitted system you carry on with your home made stuff. As for lack of confidence and competence I dont think so, its not my fault you probably didn't have the pound notes and had to make your own, price right and grow your business and you too can afford one. Regards
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DIY is fine. My diy works perfectly thank you. and guess what it cleans windows just like a bought system.....amazing! Has done for the last 9 years.
If you want to shell out a lot more money because you lack the competence and confidence then that's your problem.
As long as you do it properly diy is fine.
Good for you, but what most forget, if say you make one of them crappy harris poles and it breaks and does damage to property or say a parked car you are not covered Fact, Have an accident in your van with your home made system and you haven't had it fitted properly your brown bread. A neighbour of mine is a loss adjuster he told me he will look at all loop holes not pay a claim. When I set my Business up he gave me very good advice that is why I brought ionics systems because they are sledge tested and crash test to thatcham requirements. He also said if i did a modification to my van( Having a System fitted is), and its not fitted by a recognised trader IE pure freedom, ionics, they may well not pay out. I will carry on with my fitted system you carry on with your home made stuff. As for lack of confidence and competence I dont think so, its not my fault you probably didn't have the pound notes and had to make your own, price right and grow your business and you too can afford one. Regards
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Oh for common sence sake I wish people like you would get off your high horse and see sence.
Not one of person has said anything bad against a "professionally fitted" system
Most of us DIYers are not stupid. We make sure we fit our systems safely.
This argument you are putting forward is straight out of a certain top of the range system producers catalogue. I remember them trying to get kite marked poles on theirs only.
Check the HSE details and I bet, so long as our systems comply with HSE regs it don't matter who builds it.
David
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DIY is fine. My diy works perfectly thank you. and guess what it cleans windows just like a bought system.....amazing! Has done for the last 9 years.
If you want to shell out a lot more money because you lack the competence and confidence then that's your problem.
As long as you do it properly diy is fine.
Good for you, but what most forget, if say you make one of them crappy harris poles and it breaks and does damage to property or say a parked car you are not covered Fact, Have an accident in your van with your home made system and you haven't had it fitted properly your brown bread. A neighbour of mine is a loss adjuster he told me he will look at all loop holes not pay a claim. When I set my Business up he gave me very good advice that is why I brought ionics systems because they are sledge tested and crash test to thatcham requirements. He also said if i did a modification to my van( Having a System fitted is), and its not fitted by a recognised trader IE pure freedom, ionics, they may well not pay out. I will carry on with my fitted system you carry on with your home made stuff. As for lack of confidence and competence I dont think so, its not my fault you probably didn't have the pound notes and had to make your own, price right and grow your business and you too can afford one. Regards
here here well said old chum, ;)
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Combination of both. I've got the GrippaMax 650 tank and restraint system, but everything around it is DIY (doesn't look DIY though). I like it that way, I know exactly what I want and how I want it. No system installer can do that for me.
/
My first system had a Purefreedom 400L cage, but again everything around it was DIY.
Hi Tim
How is this Grippamax system secured underneath please?
T loks are fixed in place with huge spreader plates, chemically bonded and bolted in place.
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Good for you, but what most forget, if say you make one of them crappy harris poles and it breaks and does damage to property or say a parked car you are not covered Fact
I cant see why your not covered.
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ;D
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DIY is fine. My diy works perfectly thank you. and guess what it cleans windows just like a bought system.....amazing! Has done for the last 9 years.
If you want to shell out a lot more money because you lack the competence and confidence then that's your problem.
As long as you do it properly diy is fine.
Good for you, but what most forget, if say you make one of them crappy harris poles and it breaks and does damage to property or say a parked car you are not covered Fact, Have an accident in your van with your home made system and you haven't had it fitted properly your brown bread. A neighbour of mine is a loss adjuster he told me he will look at all loop holes not pay a claim. When I set my Business up he gave me very good advice that is why I brought ionics systems because they are sledge tested and crash test to thatcham requirements. He also said if i did a modification to my van( Having a System fitted is), and its not fitted by a recognised trader IE pure freedom, ionics, they may well not pay out. I will carry on with my fitted system you carry on with your home made stuff. As for lack of confidence and competence I dont think so, its not my fault you probably didn't have the pound notes and had to make your own, price right and grow your business and you too can afford one. Regards
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Oh for common sence sake I wish people like you would get off your high horse and see sence.
Not one of person has said anything bad against a "professionally fitted" system
Most of us DIYers are not stupid. We make sure we fit our systems safely.
This argument you are putting forward is straight out of a certain top of the range system producers catalogue. I remember them trying to get kite marked poles on theirs only.
Check the HSE details and I bet, so long as our systems comply with HSE regs it don't matter who builds it.
David
Blind to the Facts.
It is all Rather Sad that they swallow the sales pitch as gospel.
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could someone please tell me what a system is . oh yes ive just remembered its a water tank and pump in the back of my van . think it took me half an hour to put in . just looked on a well known suppliers website and every custy that spends 5 k on a fitted system gets 7 pairs of socks with the days of the week on . plus an homer simpson tie
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Combination of both. I've got the GrippaMax 650 tank and restraint system, but everything around it is DIY (doesn't look DIY though). I like it that way, I know exactly what I want and how I want it. No system installer can do that for me.
/
My first system had a Purefreedom 400L cage, but again everything around it was DIY.
Hi Tim
How is this Grippamax system secured underneath please?
T loks are fixed in place with huge spreader plates, chemically bonded and bolted in place.
Interesting, so not secured to the chassis then
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Personally speaking I had a 650 ltr system fitted professionally because of the safety.
I value my life, and that of other road users, so the extra expense is worth it.
I cringe when I read posts on here about saving money using straps to hold down half tonne unstable loads ::)
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Combination of both. I've got the GrippaMax 650 tank and restraint system, but everything around it is DIY (doesn't look DIY though). I like it that way, I know exactly what I want and how I want it. No system installer can do that for me.
/
My first system had a Purefreedom 400L cage, but again everything around it was DIY.
Hi Tim
How is this Grippamax system secured underneath please?
T loks are fixed in place with huge spreader plates, chemically bonded and bolted in place.
Interesting, so not secured to the chassis then
No, I found that interesting as well. Considering the 1000l model went through the crash test I'd say the van floor is strong enough. Unlike a lot of other window cleaners used to say (including me!)
Picture of plate here :
http://tinyurl.com/8q86597
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(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt46/Jpicz_2009/theRedCaddy/Untitled.jpg)
I wonder how strong the floor plates are when not through chassis rail.. during the 18.6mph crash test (1000litres) the floor plates on this ionics system just tore through the floor like it was plastic..
(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt46/Jpicz_2009/theRedCaddy/scrnshot022.jpg)
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You never go through a chassis rails, that's a big no no.
If you look at that picture, the plates are actually tiny, and have deformed. Also the holding clamps that go over the tank frame look like they were made of cheese. So all of the sudden you get basically all the force on just those two small plates. So yea that would rip through the floor. These Grippamax plates and T-lok system are really something else. Crash test data on the 1000l Grippamax system says it all really. It holds just fine, and that's at 31MPH.
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I too use Ionics systems and feel they offfer a good aftersales support and also the replacement parts do arrive very quickly, but I always have a complete set of backup filters and connectors so if anything is wrong its so easy to fit and do the backwashes I wouldnt use any other company or be bothered to build my own
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DIY is fine. My diy works perfectly thank you. and guess what it cleans windows just like a bought system.....amazing! Has done for the last 9 years.
If you want to shell out a lot more money because you lack the competence and confidence then that's your problem.
As long as you do it properly diy is fine.
Good for you, but what most forget, if say you make one of them crappy harris poles and it breaks and does damage to property or say a parked car you are not covered Fact, Have an accident in your van with your home made system and you haven't had it fitted properly your brown bread. A neighbour of mine is a loss adjuster he told me he will look at all loop holes not pay a claim. When I set my Business up he gave me very good advice that is why I brought ionics systems because they are sledge tested and crash test to thatcham requirements. He also said if i did a modification to my van( Having a System fitted is), and its not fitted by a recognised trader IE pure freedom, ionics, they may well not pay out. I will carry on with my fitted system you carry on with your home made stuff. As for lack of confidence and competence I dont think so, its not my fault you probably didn't have the pound notes and had to make your own, price right and grow your business and you too can afford one. Regards
My business is fine thanks, I just enjoy the money being in my pocket instead of someone else's.
It always makes me laugh when some who have bought a system try and say. 'You don't have one 'cos you can't afford one' What do you know about me and my business? Nothing except that I bet my profit margin is better than yours.
I personally don't knock people who have a system.
I think people who knock those with DIY systems are as bad as those who treat window cleaners like scum.
I did have more to say, but I can't be bothered, I'm one of those who come on here to help people or pick up tips.
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DIY is fine. My diy works perfectly thank you. and guess what it cleans windows just like a bought system.....amazing! Has done for the last 9 years.
If you want to shell out a lot more money because you lack the competence and confidence then that's your problem.
As long as you do it properly diy is fine.
Good for you, but what most forget, if say you make one of them crappy harris poles and it breaks and does damage to property or say a parked car you are not covered Fact, Have an accident in your van with your home made system and you haven't had it fitted properly your brown bread. A neighbour of mine is a loss adjuster he told me he will look at all loop holes not pay a claim. When I set my Business up he gave me very good advice that is why I brought ionics systems because they are sledge tested and crash test to thatcham requirements. He also said if i did a modification to my van( Having a System fitted is), and its not fitted by a recognised trader IE pure freedom, ionics, they may well not pay out. I will carry on with my fitted system you carry on with your home made stuff. As for lack of confidence and competence I dont think so, its not my fault you probably didn't have the pound notes and had to make your own, price right and grow your business and you too can afford one. Regards
My business is fine thanks, I just enjoy the money being in my pocket instead of someone else's.
It always makes me laugh when some who have bought a system try and say. 'You don't have one 'cos you can't afford one' What do you know about me and my business? Nothing except that I bet my profit margin is better than yours.
I personally don't knock people who have a system.
I think people who knock those with DIY systems are as bad as those who treat window cleaners like scum.
I did have more to say, but I can't be bothered, I'm one of those who come on here to help people or pick up tips.
Give it a rest mate your sounding like a big girls blouse, I'm not having a dig at you or your home made stuff i'm being sarcastic as you lunched in to me. Like wise you don't know nothing about me or my business or profit margins, carry on enjoying your money as I will mine. Now its half day for me as im off to see the migty Queens Park Rangers. Love and kisses. ;D
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I too use Ionics systems and feel they offfer a good aftersales support and also the replacement parts do arrive very quickly, but I always have a complete set of backup filters and connectors so if anything is wrong its so easy to fit and do the backwashes I wouldnt use any other company or be bothered to build my own
You know, although I am a DIY man. I can't help agreeing with you Jamie.
A part of me says "look mate, stop faffin around and get a proper setup"
And, I confess to enquiring about a van and setup. But I couldn't justify
14000 for a new Dispatch van and 2500 for Pure Freedom or around 3000 for Ionics
(simple setup)
So I am happy with my DIY, custom trailer.
However, not counting the van cost, my trailer has, all in, probably cost around 2000.
My x plate Scoda Octavia 1.6 Estate cost me 1300 15 months ago.
David
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You never go through a chassis rails, that's a big no no.
If you look at that picture, the plates are actually tiny, and have deformed. Also the holding clamps that go over the tank frame look like they were made of cheese. So all of the sudden you get basically all the force on just those two small plates. So yea that would rip through the floor. These Grippamax plates and T-lok system are really something else. Crash test data on the 1000l Grippamax system says it all really. It holds just fine, and that's at 31MPH.
;D ;D LOLOLOL
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Hi folks,
Been thinking......
I have a DIY Trailer system. I think it is better to have your own designed system as if something fails you can fix it quickly.
If you have a commercial system and it goes wrong you're in the hands of the manufacturer. Possibly waiting to get back up and running.
What are your thoughts?
David
my advice to anyone is to keep it as simple as possible have a tank and delivery water via a controlled pump to the glass and delete anything from the van/trailer that is not needed.