Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: roundbuilder on September 22, 2012, 04:18:07 pm
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I have 2 vans full to the brim with work with 1 man in each. (roughly 20-25jobs a day each van) I'm thinking instead of kitting out another van and having to train somebody up I could add an extra £100-150 a day of new work on each van and get another guy in to work alongside.
From my working out id be better off this way doing it to 2 vans than to buy and kit out a 3rd one.
So who has 2 man teams going out and can they do £150 more than being on there own??.
Cheers
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Hi mate - sorry i'm not going to talk £££ notes on this open forum but i would defo upgrade 1 man vans to 2 man vans
it will depend on your work and how compact you are but in general 2 man van does approx 70% more than 1 guy on his
own for general window cleaning ( domestics ) but for larger domestic and commercal work or where you can park up and
do 6+ properties then its virtually double output per day
best regards
Darran
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I think it depends how compact your work is,2 man definitely on compact.
Graham
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If you charge 15 pounds for a front surely a extra person can add 500 pound extra a day.
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when I go 2 up I do struggle to hit the £150 extra but my round is not as compact as some so I'm gonna go to a 2nd van in march and take a full timer, we will work a van each on the villages I cover (3-4 days a week) and then double up into one van only for the pockets of compact work I do, hopefully this will improve as I grow the segmented work into compact, then I will re evaluate, also taking into consideration at this stage that I'll be hitting the vat level, will be very interested on feedback on my plan please.
Graham
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Hi mate - sorry i'm not going to talk £££ notes on this open forum but i would defo upgrade 1 man vans to 2 man vans
it will depend on your work and how compact you are but in general 2 man van does approx 70% more than 1 guy on his
own for general window cleaning ( domestics ) but for larger domestic and commercal work or where you can park up and
do 6+ properties then its virtually double output per day
best regards
Darran
you must have very compact work to create 70% more per day, 1 van 1 man will always make more than 2 per van its logic.
if you work out the cost of van and costs etc it is plain to see (long term it makes more 1and 1) short term it doesnt., only if your doing commercial jobs daily that are large enough would it be more of a benifit imo I have tried both and thats my findings.
The only benifit I see is if you dont have enough work, or your using ladders
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WW - not sure i follow ? 2 men on 1 van easily do more than 1 man and 1 van but as the percentage ( on average ) i gave
then 2x 1 man van would do more than a 2 man van as 2 1 man vans should do more or less double a single van,
but you have to look at the cost of having 2 vans on the road - more insurance/fuel/servicing etc... and then theres the cost of purchasing a van and the equipment to go inside it...
I'm pretty rural and would not class my work as compact but we do have 'pockets' of work where 5 or 6 houses can be cleaned per stop and we also have larger properties that take 1 man an hour to clean ( these usually take 30mins with 2 )
Darran
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I have not found 2 men producing the same amount of extra turnover one can do alone as there is the temptation to stop and talk. However 2 men in one van producing a little less is better than paying for an extra van, system, fuel, insurance etc...
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not always, 2 men in 2 vans producing only £50 more would give you a £250 extra weekly turnover which would cover another van,I have a 2nd man out with me sometimes and usually only make an extra £100 to what I can do on my own, I can comfortably do £200-when we double up it's not as productive as you think unless you have lots of compact work, the other benefit in my opinion with 2 vans is if one goes down your still covered by the other van, just my opinion chaps
Graham
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not always, 2 men in 2 vans producing only £50 more would give you a £250 extra weekly turnover which would cover another van,I have a 2nd man out with me sometimes and usually only make an extra £100 to what I can do on my own, I can comfortably do £200-when we double up it's not as productive as you think unless you have lots of compact work, the other benefit in my opinion with 2 vans is if one goes down your still covered by the other van, just my opinion chaps
Graham
Yeah that's the sort of figures I was thinking extra £100-150 I think it will out weigh having to get another van and save money in the long run.
Thanks all.usefull info
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2 men or (3 men per van if the workloads high )is how i do it-trad . 4 in a van makes more money rather than 2 seperate vans and make more per man im sure ,as fuel etc on the 2nd van is so pricey now
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Hi mate - sorry i'm not going to talk £££ notes on this open forum but i would defo upgrade 1 man vans to 2 man vans
it will depend on your work and how compact you are but in general 2 man van does approx 70% more than 1 guy on his
own for general window cleaning ( domestics ) but for larger domestic and commercal work or where you can park up and
do 6+ properties then its virtually double output per day
best regards
Darran
you must have very compact work to create 70% more per day, 1 van 1 man will always make more than 2 per van its logic.
if you work out the cost of van and costs etc it is plain to see (long term it makes more 1and 1) short term it doesnt., only if your doing commercial jobs daily that are large enough would it be more of a benifit imo I have tried both and thats my findings.
The only benifit I see is if you dont have enough work, or your using ladders
Spot on.
2 man vans are really not that great for a number of reasons.
Productivity goes down as there is more chats, distractions, fAg breaks, etc, than a guy on his own, and you still ca only go as fast as the van can get you between jobs.
2 men on our large commercials out of 1 van, is fine, domestics, compact or not, 1 man per van works much better.
For the reasons stated above, I'm just about to pop van no. 3 on the road.
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you going vat then concept.?
Graham
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Hi mate - sorry i'm not going to talk £££ notes on this open forum but i would defo upgrade 1 man vans to 2 man vans
it will depend on your work and how compact you are but in general 2 man van does approx 70% more than 1 guy on his
own for general window cleaning ( domestics ) but for larger domestic and commercal work or where you can park up and
do 6+ properties then its virtually double output per day
best regards
Darran
you must have very compact work to create 70% more per day, 1 van 1 man will always make more than 2 per van its logic.
if you work out the cost of van and costs etc it is plain to see (long term it makes more 1and 1) short term it doesnt., only if your doing commercial jobs daily that are large enough would it be more of a benifit imo I have tried both and thats my findings.
The only benifit I see is if you dont have enough work, or your using ladders
Spot on.
2 man vans are really not that great for a number of reasons.
Productivity goes down as there is more chats, distractions, f*g breaks, etc, than a guy on his own, and you still ca only go as fast as the van can get you between jobs.
2 men on our large commercials out of 1 van, is fine, domestics, compact or not, 1 man per van works much better.
For the reasons stated above, I'm just about to pop van no. 3 on the road.
See I'm in exact same boat as you then. 2 full rounds. I'm thinking another £100 each van would work out a lot cheaper than new van and equipment, tax, mot, fuel, maintenance. Only difference being 2 more wage bills instead of the 1. I did my workings out and as good as it would be to get third van out on road it would benefit me by waiting because as long as min £100 extra is cleaned on each van I'd be quids in going the 2 men a van route by over £200 a week which over the year is a tidy sum to save.
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If you charge 15 pounds for a front surely a extra person can add 500 pound extra a day.
What drugs are you on! Who said I charge £15 for fronts?????
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the only problem with the £100 extra only is does not leave enough profit to pay a wage that will keep good staff, not if you want a £200 profit, if I'm getting this wrong then somebody please tell me
Graham
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the only problem with the £100 extra only is does not leave enough profit to pay a wage that will keep good staff, not if you want a £200 profit, if I'm getting this wrong then somebody please tell me
Graham
I pay percentage of what gets cleaned, admit idly I didn't think that 1 through. May have to recalculate how will work as will be hard to work out who does what or if both working as hard as each other then paying the driver more. Maybe I will be best just getting another van.
Graham you have thrown a spanner in my works. Cheers for that. ;D
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not always, 2 men in 2 vans producing only £50 more would give you a £250 extra weekly turnover which would cover another van,I have a 2nd man out with me sometimes and usually only make an extra £100 to what I can do on my own, I can comfortably do £200-when we double up it's not as productive as you think unless you have lots of compact work, the other benefit in my opinion with 2 vans is if one goes down your still covered by the other van, just my opinion chaps
Graham
Yeah that's the sort of figures I was thinking extra £100-150 I think it will out weigh having to get another van and save money in the long run.
Thanks all.usefull info
Out of that you will have to pay a wage, mick give me a call mate and I will explain what I mean, it will not outweigh the cost Trust me it will also eat into your cash flow if you don't collect
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one man and a van I think 170-£250 is achievable, taking out the 5.6 weeks in holiday pay and downtime 35k-40k a year for that van, take out a reasonable wage and running costs, worse case scenario would still leave you with a company profit of 10-12k plus your company grows in stature and your now seen as more of a brand.
one man extra in a van making an extra £100 a day on average would not leave you a £200 profit or you would only be paying about £260ish a week gross as your employers nic's would take this to your £300 a week wage cost, out of that they would take home £220 a week..!
the scenario above that one is you could possibly pay 16-18k and still make the company profit of 10-12k
if I'm wrong please shout loud
Graham
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to anyone out there who is multi van, do you have some kind of fleet insurance or separate policies per van..? also thinking about a prepaid fuel card for the 2nd man,anyone use these...?
Graham
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I have a guy who works for me 3 days a week...
Some days we earn really well working out of the same van... Other days him working only covers his wage - which isn't good.
So it does depend on the type of work... How compact it is etc...
In the new year I'm going to put him in a seperate van, and only work together on large jobs.
Andy
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I think your spot on with that andy, I've just spent last few days costing it out, have quotes for employers liability, payroll, van insurance etc etc and I'm sure it's the way forward, sat with my accountant yesterday formulating a pay structure and a commission rate to boost earnings, now it's all guns blazing to pull enough work in for the 2nd man n van, good luck to you
Graham
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on paper it seems 1 man 1 van makes more sense, but its all about trust. trusting your man to go out on his own, and complete all the jobs as he says he has. not only that but you have to trust they wont damage or crash the van which would royally mess things up. plus your customers may start viewing your employee as their window cleaner and not you
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Very true Mr brookes done it and never works out , you need somebody who is interested in the buisness growing and that means a partner and that brings its own troubles so best work for yourself or what i find is family are trustworthy but i just have one worker 2 days a week as sometimes its harmony on your own no rushing and when i need extra help i do it on the 2 days that i have my worker in , happy days :D
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short answer, i have 3 staff, all trustworthy and all in vans / uniform supplied and employed by me, each have there own weekly job sheets and sometimetimes meet together for bigger jobs, one van = one man, works for me
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on paper it seems 1 man 1 van makes more sense, but its all about trust. trusting your man to go out on his own, and complete all the jobs as he says he has. not only that but you have to trust they wont damage or crash the van which would royally mess things up. plus your customers may start viewing your employee as their window cleaner and not you
if you don't trust your staff replace them, with a mind set of someone that is so scared someone might con them and fear others might is a road to nowhere and holding you back, not aimed at you g brookes just commenting on the words that are written, look on the positive sides its a lot more fun trust me
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window washers, i have never employed so i cant speak from experience. it is a concern and if i put myself in that position, being hired by someone else and given a van etc i would probably take the p quite often. not saying all employees would but not everyone can work away from their boss all day everyday and do as theyre told
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We employ 6 window cleaners in 3 vans and get a good daily performance, however if one man is off and someone needs to work by themselves, then generally they will do more than half of what they would have done as a team. One guy especially works very well on his own.
The downside to one man one van is the cost of first setting the van up and secondly the running costs, fuel, servicing, insurance, equipment etc.
One man will never do as much as two, however generally more than half of the two if working by himself.
At the moment our 3 teams are struggling to keep up with the workload we already have and I am looking to put another vehicle on the road to take some of the strain but I'm not sure whether to take on someone else or split one of the teams short term ???
I've also tried 3 in a van.... this really doesn't work.
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wow - 3 in a van :o - ive seen 5 tradders in a mondeo all with buckets on their laps.
i don't think there's a right or wrong on this but it's you need to do what suits your business demands at any
given time a second man in a van will allow more work done per day with little extra cost so you can build untill
you can justify another complete van and set-up.
as Ian if i'm on my own i do more than 1/2 than when 2 man - but i'm more tired at the end of the day or work longer
hours - fine in summer but not winter due to light.
i have found 2 man need to be planned out more and that each man covers the other when it's comes to reeling in
collecting the payment etc.. and that the slower man takes the smaller house or the one nearest the van to keep
'idle' time to a minimum
Darran