Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: neil100 on January 24, 2006, 07:40:49 pm
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This is my Fourth week on wfp, By the end of next week I will be able to start doing 2nd cleans with wfp which I'm looking forward too as First cleans are a real PAIN.
But I'm having great diffiuclty in coping with the frustration that wfp brings. Its a big problem the amount of time the hoses get stuck or caught on something. Or the hose decides to get all affectionate and starts to wrap itself round my legs.
Tradiontal seamed so easy in comparison, No stress no frustration, I just flowed along like a piece of Germanic enginering, Now its an whole new world where I feel like a fish out of water.
Please tell me things improve?
Or is frustration with hoses, plant pots, shrubs etc , just something I am going to have to get used too?
Nel.
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You got it ;D
I loved the affectionate bit. ;D It made me laugh
Thanks ;D
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....Or is frustration with hoses, plant pots, shrubs etc , just something I am going to have to get used too?
Nel.
Not to mention breakdowns, water shortages, complaints etc..
That's why I ain't bothering.
I never need to come on here with problems. ;)
Rog. (now don't all shout at me!)
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Hi Neil100
The frustration doesn't end.
If I could go back in time I'd work alone and just do bungalows and forget wfp.
Cheers
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just remember that you probably got frustrated
trying to get used to the squeegy.
Its going to be a learning curve with anything
new.
Stick with it you probably wont even think about
it in 3 months time.
Best of luck with it.
jeff
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Hi Neil100
The frustration doesn't end.
If I could go back in time I'd work alone and just do bungalows and forget wfp.
Cheers
Ross
You know that is not true ,dont you ;D
Now stop telling lies, You an all Squeeky i will have have you a £20 bet you will have a system within 3 years
Dave
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Nel, what type of jobs do u use it on ?
i will only use mine on the larger houses
where i can make it pay, i have quite a
lot of smaller houses on my round that
it,s just not practical to use it on.
Steve .k who did the diary has the right
game plan for these systems.
cheers jeff
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i keep my hose as short as possible, i move the trolley under the middle of the house and my 10 M hose does the front, then move it around the rear, same thing
shorter the hose, the less mess you get in, and the less chance of dragging it though dog / cat mess
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i keep my hose as short as possible, i move the trolley under the middle of the house and my 10 M hose does the front, then move it around the rear, same thing
shorter the hose, the less mess you get in, and the less chance of dragging it though dog / cat mess
Couldn't agree with you more matt. The less hose trailing about the better. Horses for courses is my motto. Van mounts are great where access is good and there are few obstacles. Trolley is king on the average domestic round work.
I swear if I took a system into a 10 acre field with one bush somewhere in it the darn hose would get snagged on it :)
Cheers
Andrew
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I'm 97% domestic Jeff.
I'm useing wfp on every house I can, up and down, the only exceptions are really flakey painted frames, or white oxidized aluiminium which i clean the old way.
The reason i am doing wfp on everything is it cost me an arm and a leg, So if I can earn more money faster while doing a good job,GREAT.
My freinds who have gone over to wfp have Domestic rounds and they are so much faster with it they feel embarrassed to ask for payment.
IT is just taking some getting used too.
Yesterday I was useing my 38' pole for the first time, Old styled 4 storey terraced houses. The brush head kept spinning round, I wasted half an hour trying to fix it. IT turned out the thread on the Goosehead had not been machined properly, so the tighting bolt was just spinning on itself. God I thought I have put all this money into this and I am just getting grief.
WFP what have I done?
Nel.
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....Squeeky i will have have you a £20 bet you will have a system within 3 years
Dave
Not a chance mate.
If I'm forced into it, I'll just start a different business. :)
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Hi neil100
Welcome to the glorious world of WFP.
Today I was doing a commercial contract and the wind at the corner of the buiding caused me to get soaked. No matter where I stood with the pole, I got very wet.
Then later, one of the tubes came off the head and the water started running back down the pole. I didn't realise untill my sleave was full of water. Good job it was nice and warm out.
it cost me an arm and a leg
.....and tons of time setting it all up.
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Nel. remember just stick with it. If you have to, make
ajustments as to where u use it on your round.
or alternativly slowly find other jobs you can use
the system on, myself i intend to canvas all my
customers that have conservatorys,
Most of have roofs are full of algae,the very first one i
asked we got the job,with repeat work on it every
3 months, i also intend to canvas for cleaning u.p.v.c
facers boards,this is easy work with this kind of system.
I think the question we all have to ask ourselves is
we have the system how can we make it work for us.
cheers jeff
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Stick with it, it will get easier, I thought i had wasted my money for the first couple of months, a year on and everything is fine and dandy!!
Jeff, do you really think facias are a doddle with pole, I get fed up with aching arms, back and neck while doing these jobs, not to mention getting wet through, although they do pay rather well - especially if you get four houses in a row all wanting it done at a premium price - not that I struck lucky today or anything ;D ;D
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What Jeff wrote is dead right.
There are loads more opportunities with wfp than with trad only methods.
I was making comments on the not so publicised side of wfp - the hassle.
Not to mention not going up 3 extension ladders anymore sometimes with my heart in my mouth.
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ive been using wfp for 4 months , previous to that i was traditional for 11 years
all my work is domestic and i use 2 trolleys 1 for me and 1 for my son
first week i thought it was the biggest mistake i had made
now 4 months on i realise it is the best thing i have ever done
window cleaning wise,
you get extra money for cleaning the frames which take no time at all when doing traditional it took ages to clean the frames and also on large windows you might have to go up your ladder up to 4 times to clean bay windows
not anymore
stick with it and put another post on here in 3 months to let us know how you are getting on then
gary
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Neil 100 , stick with it mate , i have been at it for about 5 months and its only really starting to flow now , what i have found is that if you pull the hose round to the furthest point you need to get to it makes it so much easier , i should have thought of this before but i didnt !
Now i still think i can be faster but i earn more than i ever did on ladders so who cares , in the way of system problems , i cant say as i have had any real bad expirieces yet , i think the only other upgrade im going to do in the near future is switch to micro bore hose .
By the way , at the mo i only use a 50 METRE hose , if i want to use 100 m in the future will i need to up my pump to 100psi from the 60 psi i have ?
Rich P @ F
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Gary,
You say you thought it was a mistake buying wfp in the first week, how long was it before you were glad you had done it?
I have got other jobs all lined up in the spring, Con roofs. Facia's, Gutters.To make some extra money.
Thats not the point though, I just want to be at ease with the new system without the hassle. Or is it a case of what came first, the chicken or the egg?
Nel.
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Rich,
I have 2 reels in the van. For the first three weeks it was 1/2" only. This week with doing more Bungalows Iam useing the microbore which is a revalation compared to the 1/2" hose.
I have been so impressed with it I have just orderd another 60 mtr to swap at the weekend with the 1/2" hose. I have 100 mtr microbore allready but I want to see what the flow rate is like with the 60. I have tryed useing the 1/2" because a lot of the frames are just Filth, so I have been flooding the windows, I feel like NOAH without the Ark.
THats another thing the money just keeps on being spent, another £500.00 this week on more poles, hose and spares.
Moan wfp, moan wfp. Please let things pick up.
Nel.
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They will pick up Neil , dont worry , i earnt it and spent it as you are doing , i spent £600 on poles in the first 2 weeks !
Every time i thought that i had it all covered , another job came up which required a new length of pole , i have it pretty much covered now , i hope !
You say you have 100 m of micro , what pump do you have running it ?
What is the flow rate like ?
Rich P @ F
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stick with it, you will get a few teething problems to start but once you get used to doing things in a better orderly fashion (so to speak) you won't wanna go back to trad methods.
jay
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Rich,
Its a flowjet 60psi, Through my pole the flow rate is 1.4 ltrs a min.
Compare that with my 1/2" were I get 4 ltrs a min. Though I never use that amount as I have the hose valve turned on less then half way.
I will check at weekend what flow rate is like with 60 mtrs, If it is a lot better I am thinking of cutting 20mtrs off my 100 mtr m/bore and putting on the 60 mtr to give me 2 x80 mtr hoses. I just orderd a couple of 6mm ID pipemenders in my latest order so it should be a easy job.
Regards Nel.
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Morning Nel
Are you finding that at 1.4 ltrs per minute that you jets/spray out the pole is very weak? I ask because I can use that flow rate and still have a decent jet out of the pole. A weak jet/spray is a real pain when rinsin. Especially doing the tops of the windows. I have a Shurflo 100 PSI combined with a Varistream which gives me very good flow control. I can cut the flow rate down with hardly any noticable reduction in pressure which is great when rinsing. At around 1.4 ltrs per min I absolutely fly through my work. No having to try to angle the brush head upwards to get a decent rinse at the top of the window which is the most important bit to rinse well otherwise it will run down leaving streaks/spots.
YAWN another day :)
Andrew
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stick with it, you will get a few teething problems to start but once you get used to doing things in a better orderly fashion (so to speak) you won't wanna go back to trad methods.
jay
Yes I agree with Jay and matt , we all started about the same time WFPing _ I now fly round my round . I started with a Diy trolley system and a while ago was lucky to get a second hand Ionics 400ltr tank and pump so now do the van mount with 50mtrs of tricoflex running out the back . just so much faster I find - ;D
I do alot of the new 2-3 bed semi starter homes all next to each other and run the hose right round the back first , then work to the front - then jump in the back of the van , roll up the hose and drive next door and do the same . I find it quicker to do this and less hassel than draging the hose next door and all over the place .
I have my poles racked in the back of the van so I just grab it and the hose in the other hand and walk to the back .
not sure on the micro bore stuff as I use the small blue stuff up the poles , it hasn't got the ani-kink in it like the tricoflex .
I only roll up the 1/2 inch on the reel and just throw the microbore in the back of the van .
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Andrew, The spray out of the microbore is ok, Not fantastic, I wonderd if I changed to a smaller spray jet hole weather that would improve the power of the spray. Having said that I am wanting to try a fan jet spray.
I do admitt I would not know what a good spray should be. I have a Shuroflow backback and the spray I get of the micrbore would be between speed setting 2 & 3 on the backpack. I find setting 1 on the backpack to be rubbish at rinseing. So I normally set it to 2 to rinse.
Its suprising how some take to change Quicker then others. My son cut short is winter Hibernation in Lanzarote, It was is first day on wfp and he loved it. In fact it was a record day in earnings for the two of us working together, and that was on first cleans,with the added time wasted in showing him what to do, the + & - .He also had a 10 min break every hour, Hes a swimmer and waterpolo player so I did not want him to wreck his arms and shoulders.
I just dont know how we got through so much work. Its like walking into the Tardis from Docter Who with work and wfp. The thing was we were taking it easy having a laugh showing him how everything works in the van, and its a record day.
So it has been a positive day for once.
Nel. ps. (I am still not sure of this wfp though.)
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I just dont know how we got through so much work. Its like walking into the Tardis from Docter Who with work and wfp.
The thing was we were taking it easy having a laugh showing him how everything works in the van, and its a record day.
Hi again Nel. I think that the above may say it all really. Please don't take this wrong but I really think that the change to WFP is affecting you in an adverse mannr and I think it's becuase you obviously take such a pride in your work.
It's not surprising that you should be so doubtfull. Think about it.
a WHOLE NEW WAY of doing your work.
LEAVING THE WINDOWS WET.. that was a biggie for me. The urge to go back and check every single one when it was dry was really very powerfull. I HAD to learn to trust the process ( of course I did relapse a few times and go back and look only to be pleasantly surprised)
YOU ARE RE-LEARNING your round. Before WFP you didnt have to conciously think where to put you ladders. What kit you needed for a particular property etc. IT WAS 2ND NATURE to you. Now its all different again. BUT and I honestly promise you this. IT WILL GET MUCH EASIER and before you know it you will have those "IN THE ZONE DAYS" again.
The first time around can be a nightmare. All of the doubt..re-learning etc. My advice for what its worth is to take it easy.. dont try to rush around like you thought you were doing with ladders. Take a more relaxed appoach and you will honestly begin to relax about the whole thing. The rest will follow naturally.
Dont know if this helps but I am sure many more of us here have felt just the same as you and now we are through it we can look back and think... IT WAS REALLY WORTH IT.
Cheers
Andrew
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Thanks for the encouragement Andrew and sparing the time to post a reply. It is hard to change as you get older and I know I have to let time run its course.
The second cleans are nearly here with wfp, I think that will have a dramatic effect on my attitude. It is something to look forward too.
I do appreciate all the positive posts. Thanks Guys.
Nel.
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Gary,
You say you thought it was a mistake buying wfp in the first week, how long was it before you were glad you had done it?
I have got other jobs all lined up in the spring, Con roofs. Facia's, Gutters.To make some extra money.
Thats not the point though, I just want to be at ease with the new system without the hassle. Or is it a case of what came first, the chicken or the egg?
Nel.
week 2 when i realised that i wasnt as tired also now after 4 months i know where to put the hose (microbore ) which makes a massive difference and all my customers are ok with the new system and are asking me to clean frames etc and complimenting me on the windows if you take a pride in your work neil and i know you do from your posts keep going and as i said earlier put another post to let us know how you are getting on in 3 months
by then like me you will be wondering what all the fuss was about at the beginning
gary
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The second cleans are nearly here with wfp, I think that will have a dramatic effect on my attitude. It is something to look forward too.
Nel.
wait till you do the second cleans - you will think someone has beaten you to it and cleaned them the day before - as they will still look clean - the magic of WFP :o
thats another thing to get your head round - ::)
you may get a few switch to Bi-monthly because of this at first, I did .
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This is my Fourth week on wfp, By the end of next week I will be able to start doing 2nd cleans with wfp which I'm looking forward too as First cleans are a real PAIN.
But I'm having great diffiuclty in coping with the frustration that wfp brings. Its a big problem the amount of time the hoses get stuck or caught on something. Or the hose decides to get all affectionate and starts to wrap itself round my legs.
Tradiontal seamed so easy in comparison, No stress no frustration, I just flowed along like a piece of Germanic enginering, Now its an whole new world where I feel like a fish out of water.
Please tell me things improve?
Or is frustration with hoses, plant pots, shrubs etc , just something I am going to have to get used too?
Nel.
Neil. I've had a few things go wrong in my early weeks of WFPing too. A number of frustrating hassles needed resolving and the work took me twice as long to get around. I feel as if I've just started turning the corner with it now and it's only been a few weeks. I've had to throw money at it at times in order to be able to work in a way that is more comfortable for me, but I know I will be able to get this money back (and more) as my business starts to change shape. I've had a few customers moan - though only twice about the quality of the work (one cancelled). I've had two other cancellations because their frames leaked - though I only found this out from a neighbour. If they had taken the trouble to tell me about it, I would have informed them that I would be using a lower water flow starting with the second clean. There are two others who want me back up the ladder. They will be passed on to another w/c.
The hose tangling is happening less often now. I can't put my finger on what I'm doing differently but it just seems to be feeling easier as the weeks go by. Another few weeks and I reckon I will have consolidated and that will be the time to really start hunting down larger jobs. I have got three new jobs because of WFP now. They don't quite make up for the few I've lot but I'm not bothered at this stage. If a few customers don't want to come on board, that's fine. I'm not holding my business back in order to appease them.
When I first started trad cleaning in 1991, I had a lot of frustration then too. I took a load of work with bad access - locked gates, ladders through the house etc. Gradually I changed the type of work that I did to suit the system I ran. The same will be true of WFP.
Because I introduced WFP to my round in stages, I am mostly on second cleans right now. However, I still have a few first cleans to do even though I'm on the third clean with a few jobs.
On reflection, I would suggest to anyone starting WFP NOT to start it during the Winter. Wait till Winter is coming to a close at least. At least when the days are getting a bit longer you can make up for the lost time as you re-learn your round.
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i think that winter is the perfect time to start wfp if you start in summer you could dread the winter get it out of the way then enjoy summer
also in winter it gets dark earlier so on those first cleans where you might get the spots especially if you are new to wfp when the customer comes home from work it is dark and so can cover any mistakes that you might have made
then when the light nights come you are allready competant at it so i doesnt matter
gary
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i think that winter is the perfect time to start wfp if you start in summer you could dread the winter get it out of the way then enjoy summer
also in winter it gets dark earlier so on those first cleans where you might get the spots especially if you are new to wfp when the customer comes home from work it is dark and so can cover any mistakes that you might have made
then when the light nights come you are allready competant at it so i doesnt matter
gary
You do make some good points there Gary about poorer work quality not showing up so much in Winter. I was coming from a perspective of finance myself as my income has been greatly depleted in the early stages of WFP and I've been unable to work longer hours to make it up. I suppose it depends on individual circumstances really.
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i think that winter is the perfect time to start wfp if you start in summer you could dread the winter get it out of the way then enjoy summer
also in winter it gets dark earlier so on those first cleans where you might get the spots especially if you are new to wfp when the customer comes home from work it is dark and so can cover any mistakes that you might have made
then when the light nights come you are allready competant at it so i doesnt matter
gary
You do make some good points there Gary about poorer work quality not showing up so much in Winter. I was coming from a perspective of finance myself as my income has been greatly depleted in the early stages of WFP and I've been unable to work longer hours to make it up. I suppose it depends on individual circumstances really.
how long have you been wfp for ive been doing it 4 months and ive got customers coming out of my ears at the moment
i hope it carries on like this
i cant wait till summer
gary
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Thanks for the post Shiner, But I agree with Gary on reflection, I think Winter is the perfect time to start.Especially at the start of the new year. Your mistakes can be coverd over more because of it getting dark early and the bad weather.Many of my customers dont get to see their windows untill the weekend because they work. When the light evenings kick in I will have mastered wfp and will have done the third w/cleans so the windows will be comeing up perfect with Detergent contamination consigned to the history books.
Shiner my earnings have not suffered, this being due to me putting up my prices 20%, but also because I'm going the same speed on average as I would of done Traditional, In fact if the frames are in a cleanish condition I am faster with wfp on first cleans, My son is also faster with wfp.
In fact this week I set a record for the most I have earned in a week ever, thats 26yrs of w/cleaning.
Come spring I will be flying, In March I am going to canvass again to get more work in, If I fail in buying my freinds wfp round off him.
Nel.