Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Neil Gornall on August 30, 2012, 07:28:25 am
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I got asked to clean the windows on a church recently.
A good job, both inside and out. Not easy to price as there are many odd shaped windows and difficult access but I was happy with my price.
Got a call from the father saying please go ahead but could I do it for "Cash"
Now is it just me, or is the church meant to be the upholder of morals? did our prime minister not say only a few weeks ago that it is morally wrong to ask a tradesman to work for "cash"
I obviously said no and would have been happy to walk away to keep my integrity intact.
It just confirms my views on the church. Do as I say not as I do!!!
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It will be paid out of the sunday collection from the believers!
I will happily go and relieve them of their cash mate.
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It will be paid out of the sunday collection from the believers!
I will happily go and relieve them of their cash mate.
I am sure you are right, I am doing it this morning. if your passing coming and help out.
It will make you feel so much better knowing you "did your bit for the almighty" (pound)
(ps got a new van yesterday, at last)
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Catholic church by any chance ?
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While he was on the phone you should of asked him if he was interested in buying some knock down price
"Pre-Blessed" Romanian Wine.
Lovely Jubbly ;D
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Which church is it mate?
I will guess Roman Catholic - bloody Ities, no wonder their country is shafted.
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Which church is it mate?
I will guess Roman Catholic - bloody Ities, no wonder their country is shafted.
And your ancestry is? ........... ;D
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Which church is it mate?
I will guess Roman Catholic - bloody Ities, no wonder their country is shafted.
And your ancestry is? ........... ;D
Exactly how I know!!
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when i got married the vic took "cash only" for the service . round at my house he came over as a decent bloke who had once worked as a corn trader -few yrs later he got caught wearing womens clothes in a north norfolk public loo and had to leave under a cloud. his name was neil dear , believe it or not !
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Now is it just me, or is the church meant to be the upholder of morals? did our prime minister not say only a few weeks ago that it is morally wrong to ask a tradesman to work for "cash"
Great a philosophical discussion; I love it.
Well, let's start with considering where morals come from. Were they created at the point of the Big Bang, or is there a God who created morals, or are morals some kinda man made invention? And are MPs the guardians of our moral behaviour (that's quite funny really)?
With some thought you will discover that morals do not inherently exist on their own side; it takes a conceptual mind to impute an understanding of morality onto an event.
And also, you're questioning someone's morals. Is that moral? When you consider that the person asking has a brain structure that is produced from his genetic inheritance, and experiences of which he/she had no control over, you will realise that 'free will' is not something that is totally 'free'. Don't judge a man unless you've walked a mile in his shoes; isn't that what they say? I think there's some wisdom in that.
Also, you cannot know for sure what the person's intention was who asked you if you 'could do it for cash'. I mean, what if he thought if he saved a few quid by asking for a 'cash job', he then could go buy more food for the hungry with the saved cash? Maybe he thought if you knocked off the VAT (he would've maybe assumed you were VAT registered), that it was less money to be spent on overseas wars. Wouldn't those two things be a moral intention?
What I'm saying is, without understanding the intention of asking for the job to be done 'for cash', you cannot know whether it is moral or not. It really boils down to INTENTION. I could, for example, kill my dog. If I did that for pleasure, that would possibly be morally wrong. But if I did it because my dog was suffering badly with cancer and I wanted to relieve him of his suffering, then my intention would be compassionate. So the same act can be either moral or immoral; the only difference is the intention behind that act.
Intention is everything.
I personally would've just went and quoted for the job and charged the same, whether it was for cash or some other form of payment type.
Hope that helps. ;D
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Which church is it mate?
I will guess Roman Catholic - bloody Ities, no wonder their country is shafted.
And your ancestry is? ........... ;D
Exactly how I know!!
The RC church is the most richest church in the World. The Papal banks have billions, whilst millions in the World die in abject poverty. That's not a judgement; it's a fact. ;D
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Don't you accept cash then?
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Whats the matter with cash then.I thought it was still a legal way of paying for and receiving goods and services??
As long as you declare it then i dont see what the problem is......
There's no problem, Dan; some MP recently said it was morally wrong to pay tradesmen cash and Neil is questioning the morals of the Holy Roman Catholic Church of Our Dear Virgin Lady. I'm sure you go to Hell for this type of thinking you know.
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whats wrong with ya neil?if the job was priced well just clean the windows and take the cash.
dont go all moral on us mate your "only" a window cleaner!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Is not paying tax morally wrong?
Well Income Tax was introduced into the UK to pay for weapons and equipment to kill and maim people during the Napoleonic Wars.
Somehow I don't think morality was an issue? :P
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Cash is legal tender and its not for our our prime minister to tell us whats morally wrong. That for a conscious. Do the job, give vicar a paid invoice or receipt and its up to you were to put it, in bank or your pocket.Be happy you have work. ::) ::)
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Paying in cash doesn't mean that it's not going to be declared for income, maybe that's the way they do things rather than cheques. Just do the job and take payment in whatever form.
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Don't forget to switch your tank to holy water before you start!
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Paying in cash doesn't mean that it's not going to be declared for income, maybe that's the way they do things rather than cheques. Just do the job and take payment in whatever form.
I am not sure some of you understand how VAT works.
If I "Just do the job and take payment in whatever form" then there is not an issue. I dont care how a customer pays me, cash, cheque, BACS. or even monthly if they are hard up.
What this customer wanted was for me to do the job LESS the cost of the VAT.
If I do that then what do I do? If i put the money in my pocket I am breaking the law. Not an option.
If I give him an invoice and put the money in my pocket I am breaking the law and telling everyone about it if they decide to check. Again not an option.
If I give an invoice for price less VAT and put it through my books he pays less yet I STILL have to pay VAT on the amount given, therefore I am working for less. Not an option.
So where does that leave me? Running a legit business with nothing to hide.
For the record. I did the job today. Full price with VAT charged. :)
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So what was the problem; if you personally have no objection to cleaning the windows of a building belonging to whatever faith it was? You both acted in accord with Matthew 22 v 15 - 22.
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So what was the problem; if you personally have no objection to cleaning the windows of a building belonging to whatever faith it was? You both acted in accord with Matthew 22 v 15 - 22.
Sorry, no one by the name Matthew works for me. I dont know the fella.
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Now is it just me, or is the church meant to be the upholder of morals? did our prime minister not say only a few weeks ago that it is morally wrong to ask a tradesman to work for "cash"
Great a philosophical discussion; I love it.
Well, let's start with considering where morals come from. Were they created at the point of the Big Bang, or is there a God who created morals, or are morals some kinda man made invention? And are MPs the guardians of our moral behaviour (that's quite funny really)?
With some thought you will discover that morals do not inherently exist on their own side; it takes a conceptual mind to impute an understanding of morality onto an event.
And also, you're questioning someone's morals. Is that moral? When you consider that the person asking has a brain structure that is produced from his genetic inheritance, and experiences of which he/she had no control over, you will realise that 'free will' is not something that is totally 'free'. Don't judge a man unless you've walked a mile in his shoes; isn't that what they say? I think there's some wisdom in that.
Also, you cannot know for sure what the person's intention was who asked you if you 'could do it for cash'. I mean, what if he thought if he saved a few quid by asking for a 'cash job', he then could go buy more food for the hungry with the saved cash? Maybe he thought if you knocked off the VAT (he would've maybe assumed you were VAT registered), that it was less money to be spent on overseas wars. Wouldn't those two things be a moral intention?
What I'm saying is, without understanding the intention of asking for the job to be done 'for cash', you cannot know whether it is moral or not. It really boils down to INTENTION. I could, for example, kill my dog. If I did that for pleasure, that would possibly be morally wrong. But if I did it because my dog was suffering badly with cancer and I wanted to relieve him of his suffering, then my intention would be compassionate. So the same act can be either moral or immoral; the only difference is the intention behind that act.
Intention is everything.
I personally would've just went and quoted for the job and charged the same, whether it was for cash or some other form of payment type.
Hope that helps. ;D
Excellent post Tosh :) i thoroughly enjoyed reading it. :)
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Now is it just me, or is the church meant to be the upholder of morals? did our prime minister not say only a few weeks ago that it is morally wrong to ask a tradesman to work for "cash"
Great a philosophical discussion; I love it.
Well, let's start with considering where morals come from. Were they created at the point of the Big Bang, or is there a God who created morals, or are morals some kinda man made invention? And are MPs the guardians of our moral behaviour (that's quite funny really)?
With some thought you will discover that morals do not inherently exist on their own side; it takes a conceptual mind to impute an understanding of morality onto an event.
And also, you're questioning someone's morals. Is that moral? When you consider that the person asking has a brain structure that is produced from his genetic inheritance, and experiences of which he/she had no control over, you will realise that 'free will' is not something that is totally 'free'. Don't judge a man unless you've walked a mile in his shoes; isn't that what they say? I think there's some wisdom in that.
Also, you cannot know for sure what the person's intention was who asked you if you 'could do it for cash'. I mean, what if he thought if he saved a few quid by asking for a 'cash job', he then could go buy more food for the hungry with the saved cash? Maybe he thought if you knocked off the VAT (he would've maybe assumed you were VAT registered), that it was less money to be spent on overseas wars. Wouldn't those two things be a moral intention?
What I'm saying is, without understanding the intention of asking for the job to be done 'for cash', you cannot know whether it is moral or not. It really boils down to INTENTION. I could, for example, kill my dog. If I did that for pleasure, that would possibly be morally wrong. But if I did it because my dog was suffering badly with cancer and I wanted to relieve him of his suffering, then my intention would be compassionate. So the same act can be either moral or immoral; the only difference is the intention behind that act.
Intention is everything.
I personally would've just went and quoted for the job and charged the same, whether it was for cash or some other form of payment type.
Hope that helps. ;D
Excellent post Tosh :) i thoroughly enjoyed reading it. :)
That surprises me. I know you believe in a Creator God (I assume of a Biblical nature), so if you agree that we don't have free will, that we are a product of our genetic inheritance and experiences (which we have little or no control over either), that kinda goes against the grain of traditional Christianity which asserts that we have a choice to turn to, or away from a 'God'.
Unfortunately those clever neuroscientists say that we don't have free will either. It may feel like we do, but we don't. Think about your desires; if you can see you have little or no control over your desires, then you will understand.
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when i got married the vic took "cash only" for the service . round at my house he came over as a decent bloke who had once worked as a corn trader -few yrs later he got caught wearing womens clothes in a north norfolk public loo and had to leave under a cloud. his name was neil dear , believe it or not !
So he was defrocked twice?
I bet you're not legally married, then, Bobby. Is that a good or bad thing? ;D
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Now is it just me, or is the church meant to be the upholder of morals? did our prime minister not say only a few weeks ago that it is morally wrong to ask a tradesman to work for "cash"
Great a philosophical discussion; I love it.
Well, let's start with considering where morals come from. Were they created at the point of the Big Bang, or is there a God who created morals, or are morals some kinda man made invention? And are MPs the guardians of our moral behaviour (that's quite funny really)?
With some thought you will discover that morals do not inherently exist on their own side; it takes a conceptual mind to impute an understanding of morality onto an event.
And also, you're questioning someone's morals. Is that moral? When you consider that the person asking has a brain structure that is produced from his genetic inheritance, and experiences of which he/she had no control over, you will realise that 'free will' is not something that is totally 'free'. Don't judge a man unless you've walked a mile in his shoes; isn't that what they say? I think there's some wisdom in that.
Also, you cannot know for sure what the person's intention was who asked you if you 'could do it for cash'. I mean, what if he thought if he saved a few quid by asking for a 'cash job', he then could go buy more food for the hungry with the saved cash? Maybe he thought if you knocked off the VAT (he would've maybe assumed you were VAT registered), that it was less money to be spent on overseas wars. Wouldn't those two things be a moral intention?
What I'm saying is, without understanding the intention of asking for the job to be done 'for cash', you cannot know whether it is moral or not. It really boils down to INTENTION. I could, for example, kill my dog. If I did that for pleasure, that would possibly be morally wrong. But if I did it because my dog was suffering badly with cancer and I wanted to relieve him of his suffering, then my intention would be compassionate. So the same act can be either moral or immoral; the only difference is the intention behind that act.
Intention is everything.
I personally would've just went and quoted for the job and charged the same, whether it was for cash or some other form of payment type.
Hope that helps. ;D
Excellent post Tosh :) i thoroughly enjoyed reading it. :)
That surprises me. I know you believe in a Creator God (I assume of a Biblical nature), so if you agree that we don't have free will, that we are a product of our genetic inheritance and experiences (which we have little or no control over either), that kinda goes against the grain of traditional Christianity which asserts that we have a choice to turn to, or away from a 'God'.
Unfortunately those clever neuroscientists say that we don't have free will either. It may feel like we do, but we don't. Think about your desires; if you can see you have little or no control over your desires, then you will understand.
Tosh
You should have been philosopher. You are a wasted talent :)
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when i got married the vic took "cash only" for the service . round at my house he came over as a decent bloke who had once worked as a corn trader -few yrs later he got caught wearing womens clothes in a north norfolk public loo and had to leave under a cloud. his name was neil dear , believe it or not !
Well, at least you knew what the 'Terms Of N. Dear meant'.
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when i got married the vic took "cash only" for the service . round at my house he came over as a decent bloke who had once worked as a corn trader -few yrs later he got caught wearing womens clothes in a north norfolk public loo and had to leave under a cloud. his name was neil dear , believe it or not !
Well, at least you knew what the 'Terms Of N. Dear meant'.
Your jokes are getting worse, Griff. Is everything okay at home? :-\
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when i got married the vic took "cash only" for the service . round at my house he came over as a decent bloke who had once worked as a corn trader -few yrs later he got caught wearing womens clothes in a north norfolk public loo and had to leave under a cloud. his name was neil dear , believe it or not !
Well, at least you knew what the 'Terms Of N. Dear meant'.
Your jokes are getting worse, Griff. Is everything okay at home? :-\
Yeah, sound ;D.
They just get ignored at home; maybe a forced, false laugh or smile. This is my only means of doing them but that one did me laugh out of embarassment :-[.
Anyway, I'm only practicing for the Post of the Month awards. But I predict ccmids will return and monopolise it.
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when i got married the vic took "cash only" for the service . round at my house he came over as a decent bloke who had once worked as a corn trader -few yrs later he got caught wearing womens clothes in a north norfolk public loo and had to leave under a cloud. his name was neil dear , believe it or not !
So he was defrocked twice?
I bet you're not legally married, then, Bobby. Is that a good or bad thing? ;D
Lol, that makes me laugh
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Tosh you are using a sledge hammer to crack a nut.
1) Morals are not conceptual and therefore do not require an appreciation of conceptuality to be understood/ comprehended or even adhered to.
2)However, this is not a moral issue, tax evasion through the payment of cash is a crime - this has its basis in fact, regardless of whether the cash is subsequently used to help more people worship the baby Jesus or feed the worlds hungry.
If in doubt ask on an issue of morality just ask your self, "how are the jury going to view this.......?"
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If in doubt ask on an issue of morality just ask your self, "how are the jury going to view this.......?"
try read camu's 'The Stranger' and say that again
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It's on my reading list.......just behind fifty shades of grey and The bible...