Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: DP on January 23, 2006, 08:00:42 pm
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Odd place to put this, but I know some of you guys offer this service.
Just a few questions that would really help as I have a factory complex with a number of different height buildings to do.
Does anyone know of any supplier that sells these other then Omnipole.
Has anyone put their own system together? How high is it practical to reach? Will it collect long term silt? Do you wash as well as vac?
Any info/advice would be very much appreciated.
Many Thanks
DP
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Look up Sarah Sarills posts re this or try to contact her.
I am sure she got some good kit from Northern tools for this type of work
I would search for it myself but I left my specs at work >:(
Cheers
Andrew
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Many thanks Andrew ;D ;)
I did just do a search on the subject and found a few articles, including a previous post I had put up back in 2003 which I had forgotten about. Nothing on Sarah so far and most posts either asking the same questions or completely sceptical about their worth.
However I do need to put a system together or purchase one as I am being expected to undertake these works without much choice, so all help much appreciated.
DP
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Hi DP,
Here is a ink to the thread about the Northern Tool Gutter Lance. It is purely a pole and hook attached to a pressure washer which blasts the debris out.
The Power Vac by Omnipole is a different animal. It pressure washes ans sucks up the waste as opposed to forcing it down the gutter pipe.
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=13132.0
If you have any more questions or would like the info sheet I put together for another member on here just let me know and I will email it to you.
Cant post it as it has about 8 pictures and the file is too big.
Sarah
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Many thanks Sarah
Yes I would be very grateful for anything you can send, my email address is on my profile.
This is a big factory site with many buildings, however I will no doubt have to adapt any system as there is no petrol or 240v electrics allowed, not even a mobile phone or battery radio only diesel. I will probably have to trolley mount everything and power it with a large diesel generator on 110v
Bit of a project but hopefully I should get there.
DP
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Just sent it DP.
Good luck with the job,
Sarah
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Many Thanks Sarah got it ok.
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Northern tool now supply a gutterwash system.
Omnipole manufacture a gutterwash system and our Patent Pending gutter vac system.
We first used our system in 2001 on a London Undergound contract and developed it from there, this culminated in us applying for a patent in 2005.
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I have now found another supplier of a high level vac system, which will allow me options (this was mainly what I was hoping for).
I can now look at all systems and hope that one or the other will deal with the specific type of work that this contract requires.
I am not a great fan of being confined to one supplier as I'm sure nobody is. If all else fails I will have to adapt or modify a system to suite or scratch build (which I would rather not).
I will post on what I end up doing, many thanks to Sarah and Andrew once again on this subject and Glyn hope to see your system next week (work permitting).
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DP,
No problem.
I look forward to seeing your with the details of the other system you have sourced .
It may be usefull for others on this forum when purchasing kit for this purpose.
Hope you get sorted .
Sarah
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Just a little update. I paced the amount of gutters today on this factory site, and there is about a 1000 metres (1 kilometre). Nothing like starting at the deep end :-\
Difficult to price on time as not done it before and neither have I purchased the equipment yet. approx 50% is at ground floor level 25% at first 15% at second and 10% at third floor level.
About 60% is normal 4inch and the remainder a combination of various commercial sizes. About half of it is heavily mossed up.
It will have to be vacuumed as they will not allow flushing via down pipes and as some of it is more then 30 years old, I cant take the end stops off.
Whilst I don’t expect anyone to be able to offer pricing details, if anyone has any examples of their own experience in respect of time and cost I would be very grateful to hear from you irrespective of what method you used.
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It will have to be vacuumed as they will not allow flushing via down pipes and as some of it is more then 30 years old, I cant take the end stops off.
My you have been doing your research This was one of my tips going back many many months ago.
I plan to do some admin later on today so will dig out some info on pricing for you that someone kindly gave me when I was pricing up my first commercial job last year.
Your jobs sounds a nightmare though and you will need a good bit of kit to shift moss at that height.
As a residential guideline we charge £25 per side (thats an average of about £1 per foot) and get it easily. I have heard of gutter cleaning companies charging £50 a side and they seem to do well locally too. Its more about what you think you can get.
Ill post the other info later ;)
Sarah
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Hi Sarah
Yes it was the link you gave me to your previous post, which I read and thought was a very good tip.
This has been a progressive discovery for me, from just the idea of pressure washing as with your post then after another discussion with the client, being told we would have to vac because of the down pipe issue, then realising that we would need a big bit of kit to vac silt 35ft up.
The next realisation after today is that I think we will have to do both now pressure wash and vac as some of it is really compacted (I snuck up a ladder and had a poke ;) )
So far I have the equipment cost up to £3.5K which does not include a number of items and I still have to collate all the equipment into 1 mobile unit :-\ .
As always any further help you can offer is very much appreciated.
Although its not a 100 % positive we will do the job (all about cost as usual) I will post the results as a template for others who may come across these types of commercials.
DP
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I would be interested to see what kit you have sourced and prices as I will be setting up a similar bussiness soon my research as come to a dead end re vacs all too expensive for me at the moment, Sarah's posting have been an inspiration.
I thought someone would have come up with a diy method by now.There are a large number of new three storey townhouses in my area some of whom cant get any one to clean gutters. does any one know the length of pole needed for three storey. Im also researching camera sytems the drain inspection one is a favourit as they are totally water proof but very expensive.
Dave
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Dave,
At the time Matt said he would be updating his DIY site with a DIY version of this gutter lance.
http://d.co.uk
Dont know if its been included yet but well worth a try.
Good luck with it Dave,
Sarah
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Whilst I appreciate people want to safe money I would like to point out we have invested hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds developing new products.
To have someone blatently copy what we have developed is not fair nor is it legal.
I spent over a year first thinking about what would be benificial to window cleaners for difficult access or smaller contracts and came up with the concept of a trolley.
I then spent 1000s of pounds designing - scrapping many protypes until I got it right. Within a couple of years every body has jumped on the bandwagon and now produce trolleys - what annoys me is the one I scrapped were far better than many of the models people are selling a jerry can on a sackbarrow! Their are some good trolleys out their as well!
I will not allow the situation develop again with my vacuum system thats why I went to the trouble of patening many of the componants, it is also covered by intelectual property rights.
What will eventually happen is that I wont bother Ill just do what everybody else does and copy.
Most window cleaners get hot under the collar if someone approaches one of their customers for a £10.00 job but cannot see that by copying products they are doing the same to me and other originators of products.
Rant over
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Glyn no offence but us small earning window cleaners will often go the DIY
route as we dont have that amount of money to fork out. That's why
I have built my own WFP trolley system and when it goes wrong I know I
will be able to fix it.
As regards you gutter vac looks a great piece of equipment ,but something
I wouldn't invest in as the amount of jobs I do it would take me years to see
a return. In fact this is something I looked into a year ago and got some
useful info from Numatic. But I still clean gutters with ladders and a vac, yes
I am mad.
If I had the money I would splash out but as I don't I will always go the DIY
route like a lot of guys on here.
Anyway all the best with your gutter vac.
Cheers
Doug
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Doug
Thank you for your reply, my rant wasnt against small busineses that put a piece of equipment to work for themselves.
I think I am frustrated with some of the rubbish I see being sold on ebay, which although it looks cheaper is actually more expensive than the equipment that I and many other bone fide manufacturers retail at. The poor quality and lack of concern over health and safety in some of the kit being sold now depresses me.
If you are a window cleaner you need public liability insurance if you are a manufacturer then you need Products liability insurance. If a manufacturer doesnt have insurance then they no different to cowboy window cleaners without insurance who will be able to undercut professionals who run their businesses properly.
Another rant over ;D
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GYLN: How long ago did you develop the reach and vac ? Ive seen a companys adverts on the internet 2 years ago,claiminng that they had invented the vac system. stating that because of their engineering back ground they saw a need for it.IT LOOKED TO STAND ABOUT 3FT 6 INCH HIGH . and was round with filters inside? could this ave been yourself?
gaza
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Glyn
Glyn you have some of the best equipment on the market so I would not worry about EBay.
Most of the people who buy of eBay will probably end up buying of you and the other main suppliers in the end. When they start loosing work due to equipment failure, they will soon realise that they have made a mistake and come running for some proper equipment. Unfortunately a lot of people will get there fingers burnt along the way.
If people want to make their own all well and good, But to buy something knocked up in the back of a shed that they could do themselves I do not understand.
Evan building yourself you will constantly what to upgrade and end up spending more money and time on it, They will probably end up paying a lot more then buying from a manufacture in the first place.
Buying the cheapest can be false economy, most people only find out the hard way.
Kevin
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Gaza
We first designed and used our prototype high reach vac system just over five years ago on London Underground Stations to remove the build up of fluff and dust from high ledges.
We had two versions at the last Windex show in 2004 a petrol version and a 240 volt model.
We have made several changes throughout last year.
Glyn
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Whilst I appreciate people want to safe money I would like to point out we have invested hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds developing new products.
To have someone blatently copy what we have developed is not fair nor is it legal.
I spent over a year first thinking about what would be benificial to window cleaners for difficult access or smaller contracts and came up with the concept of a trolley.
I then spent 1000s of pounds designing - scrapping many protypes until I got it right. Within a couple of years every body has jumped on the bandwagon and now produce trolleys - what annoys me is the one I scrapped were far better than many of the models people are selling a jerry can on a sackbarrow! Their are some good trolleys out their as well!
I will not allow the situation develop again with my vacuum system thats why I went to the trouble of patening many of the componants, it is also covered by intelectual property rights.
What will eventually happen is that I wont bother Ill just do what everybody else does and copy.
Most window cleaners get hot under the collar if someone approaches one of their customers for a £10.00 job but cannot see that by copying products they are doing the same to me and other originators of products.
Rant over
Imagine how the inventor of the wheel feels, he builds the worlds greatest invention, then some joker comes along and buggers it up, by attaching a car to it. ;D ;D
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;D :)
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Dave:
The alternative equipment that I sourced would not necessary be any cheaper, its simply a case of being possibly better suited to the particular difficulties that I need to get over.
I am happy to forward on the details.
Glyn:
Not quite sure which way you are coming at this from. The concept of using a vacuum or pressure washer to clean gutters or any high level surfaces is not new. I am therefore presuming your patents are in respect of your equipment only.
The ebay thing has undermined thousands of companies and industries over the last few years allowing people to sell and pirate inferior goods, but has also allowed far more people to create an honest business where it would have not been possible otherwise. There is good and bad in everything.
However again for me this is just about finding the right equipment and on this occasion you may be pleased to know that Omnipole are actually my cheapest option providing the equipment will do the job.
I look forward to having a look.
DP
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DP, the job you describe might be better done by hireing a cherrypicker and done using a simple scoop and refuse sacks during early hours when the site is quiet. Just a thought
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High Paul
I agree with you, this would be the best way and one I would take without hesitation. However its the client that’s the problem. We already work for them 6 days a week dealing with different tasks.
These works were normally done by their roofing company with various access equipment but apparently it was expensive. It was when I mentioned that it could be done from the ground in conversation that they suddenly became more then interested, in fact almost insistent.
I thought that the sudden interest was perhaps they felt it would be cheaper without the cost of access.
However when we discussed that the communal gutters (between buildings) would have to be done manually they stated that they would not accept the use of cherry pickers.
I now think that they may have insurance issues, or they have experienced an accident at some point, or simply a sign of the times (the least risk).
If we didnt already have a very strong relationship with them, I may have been less interested, especially with all the other constraints.
One thing I have learnt already is with the absence of equipment on the market, this is a very underestimated service.
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Glyn
I apologise if my posting was one of those that may have upset you.
I have looked at your systems and they are very good, trying to set up a business is very expensive as everyone appreciates, we all look for cheaper methods for some of the startup.I for one would not turn up at a customers house with a jerrycan on wheels but for some they are happy to do that and good luck to them.
One of your competitors have brought out a vac system for gutters etc but have taken it off the market for redevlepment.
The high cost of the vac and camera system is, in my opinion,not cost effective for a one man band unless you can find a lot of other work for it. Im sure people would eventually end up buying eqipment from the likes of yourself, have you got a lease system in place?
Im only researching at the moment and will probably try something else. I thank yourself for input and all others on the forum including Sarah, DP , DOUG etc
for the input on vacs and gutter cleaning