Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Anthony Hull on August 05, 2012, 05:30:42 pm
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Hey guys,
I've decided to get a TM mainly to increase productivity and be able to do larger commercial jobs without taking all day.
I have a Vauxhall Vivaro SWB and believe that the majority of TMs won't fit so have been looking at the Phoenix.
However with the smaller tanks would it be suitable for commercial jobs unless a tap is nearby?
What is the best TM I can get for a SWB which is suitable for both domestic and commercial (eg churches, schools, stately homes etc)
I've also read some lower end TMs don't maintain high temperatures etc
Any advice much appreciated!
Anthony
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Hi Anthony,
I have a lwb vivaro, not that much bigger than the swb and its fitted with the chemtex pro mount 20 with a sub fresh water tank under the machine, theres plenty of room in the back for hoses, portable, tools etc.
Its far from the best on the market but does a decent enough job, constant heat, and what I like is its easy to maintain, pretty much all of the servicing you can do yourself.
We do some pretty large commercial jobs with it, the national sailing academy at Portland for one and it is easily powerful enough for that.
Regards
Steve
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There's the prowler which is quite petite the pro mount as Steve says then for big bucks you could go fot the sapphire range, I think it'll depend on how much you want to spend and what you want to achieve these smaller machines aren't for cruise ships like Simons wee beasty.
Seek and ye shall find.
Shaun
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I've got a phoenix, your more than welcome to give me a call, 07538 089693 or 01981 259856
Regards
billy
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But it's only got a small blower ;D sorry bill but I had to say it before someone else.
Shaun
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;D ;D
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On Friday i fitted a Promount Panther 20 in to Nissan version of your van. SWB low roof. The machine was fitted on to a sub mount tank with waste tank sitting behind it. Then a hose reel fitted leaving room for a portable if required down the side of the hose reel. Yeah sure you dont get much room in a SWB van but everything does fit. No reason why you couldnt get a HM 421, Prochem Blazer or similar sized machine in.
As for smaller machines. In 1998 i purchased a Hydramaster Spitfire 3.2 which is a entry level truckmount. The vast majority of my work was commercial cleaning of Night Clubs, Pubs and Resturants. They say it runs up to 250 feet of hose but on a regular basis i ran 350-400 feet. Yes you put a little extra effort in at those lengths but the machine still gave brilliant results. Some years before that we were running for a contract and was up against our main competitor for the cleaning of night clubs. We were using a Prochem Cub XL (entry level) and our competitor was using Prochem Performer 405 (Top of the range). We won the contract....WHY because we put the extra effort in to compensate for the lack of power compared to the other machine.
Most jobs can be completed with 150 - 200 feet of hose and entry level truckmounts are more than capable of those lengths.
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Anthony
When you say won’t fit. Most will with a bit of juggling! It’s about weight? Keep the van lean. ;)
Why not convert your no heat (unless you have) 6.6 to run as a TM (Although the machine has power comparable to a "truck mount", they are portable too, which allows us to clean from the ground floor to high rise flats and offices) ??? best of both worlds methinks, oh you may need 500lt tank and defiantly apo and very long extension leads
Billy
You need a bigger van ;)
Shaun
He has already invested thousands. :( Didn’t some one start of with a with a Mickey
Cub machine ;)
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But it's only got a small blower ;D sorry bill but I had to say it before someone else.
Shaun
Its ok Shaun, i am now immune to it all!!! ;D
Anyway, i have my eye on a reconditioned prochem everest at the moment, i'll then keep my phoenix and transit as a back up,
What size engine and blower on that? ;D
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Anthony
Why not convert your no heat (unless you have) 6.6 to run as a TM (Although the machine has power comparable to a "truck mount", they are portable too, which allows us to clean from the ground
The two well known 6.6 machines have 9.5HG max ..... a small TM ( prowler ) has 17 HG ... :)
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Hi
What ever TM you get check the weight that u can carry in van. u can get a large fine for being overweight and poss void yr insurance in case of an accident. Thats one of the reasons why we have got a phoenix.
Terry
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I have a pheonix and up until a week ago ran it in a SWB Trafic - this was a 2.9 as opposed to a 2.7 so no issues with weight. It all went in no problem even room for a porty too - although I do run a small reel (it takes 100ft, then have 50ft rolled up in the back - more 50ft hoses when needed). Vacuum, chems, orbitor and bits and bobs all went in, so it wont be a problem.
Dont worry about the heat, the new heat exchangers on the pheonix are awesome. The Promounts are excellent machines too by the way.
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@Steve / @Richie - Thank you, the Promount spec does look enticing, and the waste and optional water tanks seem to have much more capacity. How do you protect the engine from the elements as it seems to be sticking out the front with no protection?
@Shaun - Thanks, I've looked at the Prowler and Sapphire ranges.. I think I want something in between the two in terms of performance / price. Looking at a budget of around £15K including VAT.
@Len - I tried van mounting the Jag with a Zeta but didn't get on with it. The Zeta only heated up water on demand, so you needed long strokes for the temp to be consistent, also seemed to fill my van with smoke etc. Main issue though was having to manage all the leads - I want to be in and out as quickly as possible and as efficiently as possible. Also, as others have mentioned, the Jag is powerful but don't believe it's as powerful as the TMs.
@Billy - Thank you very much for the invitation.. will give you a call tomorrow if you're about :)
@Kev - Thank you for the feedback, you mentioned on another thread that dumped water is diverted to your fresh tank.. is that still possible with the updated Phoenix? The small water tank is the only thing putting me off...
Cheers to everyone!
Anthony
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I had to have upgraded rear suspension leaf springs (well additional as they sit on top the old ones) fitted on my ducato, it was within weight it's just they fit really crap and too weak leaf springs as standard, it's a known issue. Couple of bags of sand would have them bottoming out.
The rubber bump stops never had enough clearance over the axle, well they was touching really :o (would have been an MOT fail)
Still only about 250 bought online plus 70 for my mechanic to fit, so no big problem.
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The rules of owning a TM
Money - There not cheap but it can drink up to £6 per machine hour.
Work - make sure you have it before you buy. It will not get you work
Space - you can never have enough. Swb may not be enough if you need to carry portable etc
Weight - I've a 350 transit and only 150 kg to spare. Read between the lines
Water - you'll need loads.
Heat - same as zeta. It's not instant
Vanity - you only need a big one if you duel wand or run over 400ft of hose and that's a lot of hose which is another reason you'll need a bigger van
Maybe more negative than what you want to hear buts it's 1.47am, I've got the flu and can't get to sleep.
Mark
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Hi Anthony
The new Pheonix's are reverted back to traditional style i.e. back to waste tank, but it is only a mod required to get it to fresh so should be able to be done. I think the only reason why they changed it back to this spec was because of the acid rinse gumming up due to the heat cycle (rather than dumping it to waste). Cant confirm this but this is what happened to me anyway. It was an easy fix - I just use other alternatives for my acid and problem solved completely.
The water isnt really an issue because I'm recovering it back to fresh and its not dumping lovely fresh water to the waste tank - which means I can get away with this smaller set up. On the occasion I need more water - well its not hard lets face it. I would say the only downside is the waste tank does get a bit more dirtier as there isnt fresh water going in their at the same time, but I dont mind this small sacrifice for the benefit of not using so much water.
It is the perfect machine in my eyes:- small (ish), amazing heat, uses less water, simple to operate. I now have it in a LWB Trafic and have tons of room! Will post pics when they wrap is done.
Like I said earlier the Promount (dont know what they call them now) machines are very very good too (in this range the 25 prob the best) - its a tough choice between the 2 tbh, but I would definately get one or the other if it was me. Way more than enough for domestics and a breeze for schools, churches etc. If your gonna do ships then you need something bigger ;D
Kev
p.s. I've just re-read your post re: 'I've also read some lower end TMs don't maintain high temperatures etc' yes this does happen on some (low powered usually), even on my first heat exchanger it did this. But HM have got this sorted now and it doesnt drop off at all, as they re-designed the new exchangers. Anyway, hope this all helps.
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Hi Anthony
The new Pheonix's are reverted back to traditional style i.e. back to waste tank, but it is only a mod required to get it to fresh so should be able to be done. I think the only reason why they changed it back to this spec was because of the acid rinse gumming up due to the heat cycle (rather than dumping it to waste). Cant confirm this but this is what happened to me anyway. It was an easy fix - I just use other alternatives for my acid and problem solved completely.
The water isnt really an issue because I'm recovering it back to fresh and its not dumping lovely fresh water to the waste tank - which means I can get away with this smaller set up. On the occasion I need more water - well its not hard lets face it. I would say the only downside is the waste tank does get a bit more dirtier as there isnt fresh water going in their at the same time, but I dont mind this small sacrifice for the benefit of not using so much water.
It is the perfect machine in my eyes:- small (ish), amazing heat, uses less water, simple to operate. I now have it in a LWB Trafic and have tons of room! Will post pics when they wrap is done.
Like I said earlier the Promount (dont know what they call them now) machines are very very good too (in this range the 25 prob the best) - its a tough choice between the 2 tbh, but I would definately get one or the other if it was me. Way more than enough for domestics and a breeze for schools, churches etc. If your gonna do ships then you need something bigger ;D
Kev
p.s. I've just re-read your post re: 'I've also read some lower end TMs don't maintain high temperatures etc' yes this does happen on some (low powered usually), even on my first heat exchanger it did this. But HM have got this sorted now and it doesnt drop off at all, as they re-designed the new exchangers. Anyway, hope this all helps.
Very good post fromKev, I think the machine is perfect for my needs, i do probably 50/50 com/dom, the only thing i disagree with kev is the reason they changed the dumping of the fresh water, Kev has the mk1, the rinse is mixed straight in the tank, but the mk2 i have has last step chem injection, so the acid gumming up won't affect it, a was concerned at first about the size of the fresh tank, but its not a concern what so ever, just make sure you have lots of different tap fittings :) , anyway. we can chat later today, regards billy
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Yes the engine of the promount is at the front in the open but it will have no problems been out in the open. These machines have been around for years with the same design and no problems.
The Promount 20 that i fitted on Friday for Darren was the first i had seen up close. All i can say is......i wish all truckmounts were that simple. Hardly any wiring, everything is easy to get to, light weight compared to other truckmounts, good vacuum and heat. What more could you want :)
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Many thanks guys! Kev - thanks for the detailed post :)
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Anthony,
If I can be of any help with the TM thing, just let me know.
I am in Euxton, Chorley and have seen your van a few times in the Preston area.
Although I run a bigger TM than what you are thinking about, I used to have a 16hp Steamway in a Citroen Dispatch, so know all the problems with confined space and weight issues.
Dave.
www.deepcleandave.co.uk
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Kev
How long would a tank of water last with your machine?
Thanks
Mark
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@Dave - Very much appreciate your offer of help, especially as you just live around the corner :) I'm sure I'll be in touch in the near future.
Thanks to Billy for a chat earlier today, very nice guy and convinced me to investigate the Phoenix further. I've arranged with John Gotts at Hydramaster to have a play with the machine for a day then if it's for me he can have one installed the day after which is handy!
Thanks once again to all for your much valued help.
Anthony
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@Dave - Very much appreciate your offer of help, especially as you just live around the corner :) I'm sure I'll be in touch in the near future.
Thanks to Billy for a chat earlier today, very nice guy and convinced me to investigate the Phoenix further. I've arranged with John Gotts at Hydramaster to have a play with the machine for a day then if it's for me he can have one installed the day after which is handy!
Thanks once again to all for your much valued help.
Anthony
Your welcome Anthony, Hope it goes ok for you
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Kev
How long would a tank of water last with your machine?
Thanks
Mark
Well its only a 185ltr tank, but I can probably do 2 x 3 bed semi's (3 beds, landing, stairs, lounge, diner, hall each) with a bit left over. Maybe another couple of rooms and a rug if not too minging.
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i have a prochem blazer gt fitted into a vauxhall vivaro high top,the machine with all the bits will fit into a swb
yes it would be tight if you carry a portable,but its very do able
gary
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Just spent the day organising my van out managed to get my Powerflight 1350 all my chems crb machine and sebo 36 and hand tools to fit into my SWB Nissan Primastar along with truckmount and 300ft hosereel bit of a squeeze but it does all fit.
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Hi Darren, good to hear that the portable did fit in. Dont forget to get tome pictures and email them to me or post them on here. Sorry i missed your call Sunday. Was out and about but forgot to take my phone.
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No problem Richie everything is going great now
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as i am a man of few words i will keep this short .
you wont look back
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I'm runnin a Phoenix in a swb pug expert. can still squeeze the ninja next to the hose reel if needed.
Mr B
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Brian we need a pic of your van.
Shaun
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Brian we need a pic of your van.
Shaun
Can't load from iPad, will look on the mac tomorrow!
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And can you weigh the van too for curiosity.
Thanks
Mark
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Shaun
Mr B has a nice setup apart from the hose reel and it has a dog on the decal ;)
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Shaun
Mr B has a nice setup apart from the hose reel and it has a dog on the decal ;)
Apparently it's the "dogs"......
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Len
mail sent
Mr B
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Mr B's van
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mr B's van
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1344531958_photo_1.JPG)(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1344531977_photo_2.JPG)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1344532037_photo_3.JPG)
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i know some one thats got a max 450 dev in a swb vivro van so there do fit in them with some good thinking
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Thanks Len
Mr B
Wanna buy a hose reel? Lol
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NO
All of my void work today was LM, but still love the TM it’s the best even with no hose reel, six in your chemical racking WHY? Have you got the same in the other Van ;)
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Hi Anthony
I have recently upgraded to a Prowler, i have a T28 Transporter so weight is a bit of an issue.
With the prowler you dont carry a waste tank so this suited me as a waste tank would swallow so much room!
Also i didnt bother with a fresh water tank, i invested in a very good quality hose pipe on a reel (150') and a selection of tap fittings (Claber)
I carry 150' of 2" and solution which is more than long enough for the jobs i do.
The Jag still gets used on certain jobs... you will regret selling that mate!
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Hi Russ
Have you got any pics of Prowler in van
Cheers Richard
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I have Rich
Email me and i will send...
info@prosteamuk.com
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Hi Russ
Sent you a message on website
Cheers Richard
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For some reason everytime i try and send you a pic to that email address it sends back a rejection message ?
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Russ, could be too big?
I find 2MB is the limit for a lot of uploading and sending of pics. Try reducing the size ?
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Nope...
richsuperior@aol.com
Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 550 550 5.1.1 <richsuperior@aol.com>: Recipient address rejected: aol.com (state 13).
Looks like there is something wrong with his email account?
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Why not post it on here so everyone can see.
Shaun
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Sorry Russ its me,missed out the 10 in the email address
richsuperior10@aol.com
Richard
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I gave up trying to post pictures on this forum a long time ago! anyone tried?
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SIMPLES
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1344768245_meercat.jpg)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1344768665_646.jpg)
No problem
;D
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All you do is on the reply page click SELECT FILES then go to your folder on your hard drive where the photo is and double click. Done. It is important though that the photo file isn't too large. It really needs to be in kb's instead of megabytes. Just resize it before posting.
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See, its Easy! This ones for Jim :-* You know you love it! ;D ;D
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1344769524_Ironing Workshop!!!!.jpg)
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I wish billy didn't find it so simple that's as bad as ken wainwrights pic.
Shaun
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I wish billy didn't find it so simple that's as bad as ken wainwrights pic.
Shaun
Now come on Shaun, be honest, you've got a copy of this picture in your wallet haven't you?
;D ;D ;D
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1344774396_interbreeding.jpg)
i believe this snap of derek and billy was captured by jim neil
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WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH PHOTOS OF MY SISTER!!!!
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Hmmm for the first time in months it works... earlier it came up with a message about contacting the forum admin or something... weird !
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Shaun
Are you referring to this one or is there another one :o ;)
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Bummer ken picture was in the kb range 203 to make it smaller would be in insult ;D
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No len this one...
This morning i was posting some pictures of stuff i have for sale and when ever i tried to upload it came up with a message like... Upload folder is full contact admin
But that was using the "file attach" tabs
Its still hit and miss even using the "select files" tab... the pic is only 600 kb
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just upload them somewhere and use [img] tags, a lot easier ;)
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Hi Anthony
I have recently upgraded to a Prowler, i have a T28 Transporter so weight is a bit of an issue.
With the prowler you dont carry a waste tank so this suited me as a waste tank would swallow so much room!
Also i didnt bother with a fresh water tank, i invested in a very good quality hose pipe on a reel (150') and a selection of tap fittings (Claber)
I carry 150' of 2" and solution which is more than long enough for the jobs i do.
The Jag still gets used on certain jobs... you will regret selling that mate!
Hey mate,
I got myself a Phoenix after spending a couple of days with the good people at Hydramaster.. John Gotts is a legend and his staff are all very friendly. Had a teething issue the first time I used it but think I've sorted it now as no problems today (2nd day in use) and very happy with the heat and vacuum!
I got a hose reel with 150 ft of hose. There's still room in the back for my Jag if required and I specifically asked Martin at Hydramaster to make room for it on the rare occasion I may need it, but he assured me after a week or two of using the TM I won't want or need to use the Jag again lol. To be honest the flats I do usually work out at a crap hourly rate due to the multiple trips to the van and up and down lifts etc. I'd rather just not do them at all and concentrate more on normal houses and commercials.
I'll upload some pics during the week after I've washed off all the Cornish midgies from the van!