Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dean Taberner on July 31, 2012, 08:52:46 pm
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Hello,
I'm officially on holiday now, the first one in nearly 5 years and I've decided that I'm going to review my employee's contracts of employment.
I've noticed through facebook that one of my employee's seems to partake in smoking cannabis. He can't be very bright considering that he requested me as a friend and is not frightened of posting pictures of his activities away from window cleaning.
Anyway,
Without taking it too personal, how dow I go about requesting a drugs test from this guy? Does it need to be added to his contract of employment?
All is fair in love and war.
Dean.
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if theres pics of him getting blazed,do you really need to bother? lol
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i would imagine that even if it wasnt in his contract you could get away with it as he is driving a vehicle so has to be fit and safe to work.
you might want to warn them that you will be drugs testing them regularly from now on for insurance purposes, as your insurance will be null and void if theyre under the influence.
do you have a contract and a seperate staff handbook? if you do, you can just alter the staff handbook as and when you wish to include this new policy, so long as you inform them you are changing it. this is by far the best setup for contracts as it offers flexibility with your rules
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I believe so yes,
Even though it seems pretty clear its not enough. Its like somebody going to a fancy dress party as a bank robber and trying to have them for that. (As the law sees it).
I do already have proper drugs testing kits which I've recently purchased but I've nothing in the contract of employment to enforce it.
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Long as he ain't doing it in work dean and turns
Up every day I wouldnt put a cat amongst the pigeons mate!
Just my opinion mate
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When I worked at very large companies, they often updated the employee handbook throughout the year and just emailed the entire workforce, saying this has changed, something has been introduced etc. It's your business Dean, check with your accountant but if you want to do regular checks then where's the problem? If an employee won't have it then you start the "procedure".
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Colin,
It isn't something that I can turn a blind eye to mate, my family are a big police family and both myself and my wife are part time police officers.
We take pride in trying to offer a service where clients know our background (I know we probably shouldn't) and they're happy with us.
Hence, he needs to go, legally.
Nothing is ever straight forward,
Dean.
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if hes a good worker dean and doesnt bring drugs to work or take them in work time and it doesnt affect his work should you really interfere i know people will say if he has accident etc blah blah blah, im not a cannabis user myself i never have been but i wouldnt start sacking people for doing it in there own time if they were a good worker however if they werent pulling there weight etc then its an option
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if hes a good worker dean and doesnt bring drugs to work or take them in work time and it doesnt affect his work should you really interfere i know people will say if he has accident etc blah blah blah, im not a cannabis user myself i never have been but i wouldnt start sacking people for doing it in there own time if they were a good worker however if they werent pulling there weight etc then its an option
Richy,
I am told that he does bring it to work,
And even more disturbing he actually recently has had an accident at work.
I kid you not.
Dean.
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if hes a good worker dean and doesnt bring drugs to work or take them in work time and it doesnt affect his work should you really interfere i know people will say if he has accident etc blah blah blah, im not a cannabis user myself i never have been but i wouldnt start sacking people for doing it in there own time if they were a good worker however if they werent pulling there weight etc then its an option
richy I would go along with that but for the fact it is illegal, if he enjoyed a few pints and turned up sober every day fine, but cannabis use is illegal
anyway dean haven't a clue, when I was in the forces I just got told one day the Army was introducing compulsory drug testing and that was that, the good news for you if you do test them, cannabis takes around 28 days to leave your system so is easy to catch, amphetamines can be clear in 72 hours so harder to catch, then their is the whole legal side of making sure it is provable etc, we used to have to appoint urine monitors ach it was just a nightmare
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If he's bringing it into work then its a big no no. However what he does in his time is his business. By the way alcohol is rated by most experts to be more harmful than cannabis bet you'd struggle to find someone who doesn't drink.
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If he's bringing it into work then its a big no no. However what he does in his time is his business. By the way alcohol is rated by most experts to be more harmful than cannabis bet you'd struggle to find someone who doesn't drink.
I agree there,someone who had 6 reefers before sleep is fare safer than somebody who had 6 pints
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Sack him!!
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i wouldnt have him bringing it into work that shudnt be allowed id sit down with him tell him u know that he smokes it, why ur against it, say he may bring name of your business down posting pics etc and that u will be introducing drug testing and any positive test will result in sack
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Dean,
I see where you are coming from. My personal opinion towards this is still being made.
As an ex soldier I got it drummed into me that "Drugs are bad, um kay" I remember coming home from leave for the first time and sitting in a room full of pot head mates. Within half an hour I was sat in the pub with my dad. I totally changed my attitude. As you say you are a part time Police officer and as far as I'm concerned this makes you an upstanding member of the community and have to behave in such a way.
I worked in a company full of pot heads and although they told me they never did it in work it was obvious they did and as far as I'm concerned, why bring it into work if you have no intention of using it. If I was in the position you are I would get a company handbook or if you already have one then update it to say that drugs are not tolerated in your company and you reserve the right to drugs testing.
When you get back to work, why not have a tool box talk with the lads and bring this subject up.
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Dean what are you messing about at ? just sack him as it obviously is bothering you what he is doing so if he dones`nt work for you anymore then you won`t have the problem,simple !
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Just a thought,is your company name listed as "works at...." on his page??
Wouldnt that be bringing the company name into disrepute??
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He cleans windows, he isn't a premiership footballer or a brain surgeon. But that said, if it bothers you, then sack him.
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if hes a good worker dean and doesnt bring drugs to work or take them in work time and it doesnt affect his work should you really interfere i know people will say if he has accident etc blah blah blah, im not a cannabis user myself i never have been but i wouldnt start sacking people for doing it in there own time if they were a good worker however if they werent pulling there weight etc then its an option
your sure about that it would explian some of your out there posts ;D ;D ;D
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Colin,
It isn't something that I can turn a blind eye to mate, my family are a big police family and both myself and my wife are part time police officers.
We take pride in trying to offer a service where clients know our background (I know we probably shouldn't) and they're happy with us.
Hence, he needs to go, legally.
Nothing is ever straight forward,
Dean.
I thought i was being wound up when I was told that you did
Part time copper!
Dean were do you find the time mate :o
Well that's fair enough mate if smoking in work that ain't on,
Just tell all your staff that they are being drug tested within the month
And if anyone has any problem with it it's best to speak up,
He might jump before he's pushed
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if hes a good worker dean and doesnt bring drugs to work or take them in work time and it doesnt affect his work should you really interfere i know people will say if he has accident etc blah blah blah, im not a cannabis user myself i never have been but i wouldnt start sacking people for doing it in there own time if they were a good worker however if they werent pulling there weight etc then its an option
Richy,
I am told that he does bring it to work,
And even more disturbing he actually recently has had an accident at work.
I kid you not.
Dean.
That can happen. It relaxes you so much, it can affect the bowels.
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Hello,
I'm officially on holiday now, the first one in nearly 5 years and I've decided that I'm going to review my employee's contracts of employment.
I've noticed through facebook that one of my employee's seems to partake in smoking cannabis. He can't be very bright considering that he requested me as a friend and is not frightened of posting pictures of his activities away from window cleaning.
Anyway,
Without taking it too personal, how dow I go about requesting a drugs test from this guy? Does it need to be added to his contract of employment?
All is fair in love and war.
Dean.
You mention to him you are all to be randomly tested for drugs this week by a HR company you are outsourcing too.(This can of course be your mate) even if you aint outsourcing to any such company. You'll get a response at this stage i would imagine. If its....no way am i gonna do that then i would say well unless you subject to a drugs test like the rest of us i assume you have something to hide and i can;t resume your work until you can prove the all clear. If he's fine with it and fails then he fails. Not sure if you have to show 'support' to him after that though, check that out.
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I won't go into the rights and wrongs of drugs - everyone has an opinion.
Unless you have something defining gross misconduct in your contract or company handbook it might be hard to just sack him - you'd have to go down the verbal and written warning route I would imagine. In any case, if he's a good worker it may be difficult to replace him quickly if you did dismiss him for GM...
The best thing to do, imo, is to alter the contract / handbook making being drugged / drunk on the job GM and lead to instant dismissal, and make them aware of it, explaining you'll be drug and drink testing from now on.
All this reminds my why i'm happy being a one man band.
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Hi Dean
This is what I have in my contract of employment
44. Drug and Alcohol use
44.1 It is the intention of Pure HYDRO Cleaners to provide a drug-free, healthy and safe workplace. To promote this goal, you are required to report to work in the appropriate mental and physical condition to perform your job in a satisfactory manner. While on Company business or travelling to and from client/customers premises you may not use, possess, distribute, sell or be under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs.
44.2 The legal use of prescribed drugs is permitted on the job, only if it does not impair your ability to perform the essential functions of the job effectively and in a safe manner that does not endanger either yourself or other individuals in the workplace.
44.3 Violations of this statement may lead to disciplinary action, up to and including termination of employment, and/or required participation in a substance abuse rehabilitation or treatment programme, especially where help is refused and/or impaired performance continues.
44.4 Possession of and dealing with illegal substances will be immediately reported to the police in all cases
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He's a fool for broadcasting on fb and if he's carrying drugs, let alone using them, at work then even my uber liberal side would support summary dismissal.
As a slight aside, what are people's views on employees (and yourselves) driving over the speed limit? Can be very dangerous and is also illegal!
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Have you considered instead of posting about it on the internet (something you are taking a dim view of him doing) actually having a conversation with him about it?
Just a thought.
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http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/employment/healthandsafetyatwork/dg_10026594
Dont know if this will help??
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Have you considered instead of posting about it on the internet (something you are taking a dim view of him doing) actually having a conversation with him about it?
Just a thought.
Good point. If he gets wind you know about it (or even not), he could say he has a problem with drugs and you could have to support him through it.
You can't just sack him for it, if it happens out of work. If he makes the first move, you could be in for some more distress, Dean.
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Hello,
I'm officially on holiday now, the first one in nearly 5 years and I've decided that I'm going to review my employee's contracts of employment.
I've noticed through facebook that one of my employee's seems to partake in smoking cannabis. He can't be very bright considering that he requested me as a friend and is not frightened of posting pictures of his activities away from window cleaning.
Anyway,
Without taking it too personal, how dow I go about requesting a drugs test from this guy? Does it need to be added to his contract of employment?
All is fair in love and war.
Dean.
This is a minefield, discrimination, victimisation etc.
Do you have a drink and drugs policy in place?
One course of action, if you're serious, seek the help of a HR professional and take it from there.
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Hello,
I'm officially on holiday now, the first one in nearly 5 years and I've decided that I'm going to review my employee's contracts of employment.
I've noticed through facebook that one of my employee's seems to partake in smoking cannabis. He can't be very bright considering that he requested me as a friend and is not frightened of posting pictures of his activities away from window cleaning.
Anyway,
Without taking it too personal, how dow I go about requesting a drugs test from this guy? Does it need to be added to his contract of employment?
All is fair in love and war.
Dean.
This is a minefield, discrimination, victimisation etc.
Do you have a drink and drugs policy in place?
One course of action, if you're serious, seek the help of a HR professional and take it from there.
I agree with Ian.
The employee could end up being the victim in this, if it's not handled correctly. You could end up compensating him.
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Victimisation? Probably.
It seems you have all decided this guys fate. Sounds suspiciously like victimisation to me.
Discrimination? Probably.
You have decided to sack someone because of something you read on facebook??
Really??
Have a conversation with the guy.
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Some good replies there,
Thank you,
I'll have a better read through them all when I get back later,
Some key points though,
I have spoken to him, he cannot see the problem. He just thinks that I'm victimising him because he smokes weed. Seriously.
Also I will not be giving him any support, regardless of which route he goes down whether it be legal, illegal, immoral or just heartlessness he will not be getting any support from me. I'm running a window cleaning business not a counciling service. He would probably be better jacking in and going to see Graham from the Jeremy Kyle show to discuss his addiction problems as I have enough problems of my own without taking on his personal demons.
Thanks again,
Dean.
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Dean , Haven't read all the replies, so apologies if it has already been mentioned.
Why not contact ACAS, they are there in an advisory capacity for employers too :)
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Some good replies there,
Thank you,
I'll have a better read through them all when I get back later,
Some key points though,
I have spoken to him, he cannot see the problem. He just thinks that I'm victimising him because he smokes weed. Seriously.
Also I will not be giving him any support, regardless of which route he goes down whether it be legal, illegal, immoral or just heartlessness he will not be getting any support from me. I'm running a window cleaning business not a counciling service. He would probably be better jacking in and going to see Graham from the Jeremy Kyle show to discuss his addiction problems as I have enough problems of my own without taking on his personal demons.
Thanks again,
Dean.
Glad you spoke to him, if he is going to be a t-w-a-t about it then tell him everyone will be drug tested on Monday morning.
He wont even show up.
Problem solved.
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sack him and replace with 2 new ones
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What if he went off sick? What's your policy for that, Dean?
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What if he went off sick? What's your policy for that, Dean?
SSP mate.
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I have spoken to him, he cannot see the problem. He just thinks that I'm victimising him because he smokes weed. Seriously.
Aren't you?
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I have spoken to him, he cannot see the problem. He just thinks that I'm victimising him because he smokes weed. Seriously.
Aren't you?
Yes I am,
I have taken offence to it a little.
I'm a tosser aren't I?
He isn't actually cleaning for me at the moment he is on the sick on a seperate matter.
As I've said I'm on holiday at the moment and I will be drinking shortly so please don't take any offence to any posts that will come regarding this thread later this evening.
The bottom line is that I'm a part time bobby, so is my wife who is a fellow director in DTWC Ltd and we are not supposed to mix with known criminals. From what I have seen of this guy I guess he is a criminal. So I either pack in my business and go down another route just so he can lose his job gratefully. Or I will get rid and carry on with my other 5 employees.
Which would you go for?
This reply isn't aimed at you steve sed. I just got carried away after I pressed the quote button. :-)
Dean.
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Dean,I recently left the force,and will be going back in 2013 ,and going part time on the glass,Now its an issue raised you need to tell him straight either stop ,which is unlikely,or you need to get no further knowledge of his use ,what he does at home is of no concern ,explain if you find out he has any at work then he's gone, it would be a coincidence if he was stopped by fellow police officers and randomly searched ;D .
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Dean, if you're wife is a director, will it be a joint decision?
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Dean, if you're wife is a director, will it be a joint decision?
Or are you just spliffing hairs ;D
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Dean, if you're wife is a director, will it be a joint decision?
Or are you just spliffing hairs ;D
;D
Ok, we'll call it a draw.
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Dean, if you're wife is a director, will it be a joint decision?
Or are you just spliffing hairs ;D
;D
Ok, we'll call it a draw.
Yes i would leave the jokes now and just go out on a high.... :)
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i had a doper work for me,lovely lad in many ways. i knew id never forgive myself if he fell from the ladder as id known he might be high-so fired him gently
i told him if he quit the weed id let him come back working for me. told him straight while looking into his eyes so he knew i meant it
he never came back to me
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dean you know my views on this matter
also as a member of our police force
you shud ,know yr own views on it
a police constable shud be able to arrest
his own mother n feel no obligation to waiver.
this lad is a liability to yr business
its your name on the vans and is your business
man up slap the lil jr bob marley n employ
real window cleaners
no more problems imo ;)
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Dean hope you sort it all ,
i kinda feel sorry for the bloke thou i know its his own fualt and how silly can he be posting it all on facebook with YOU as a friend ;.... he obviously needs to sort out his life ,unfortunately people turn to drugs due to maybe bad circumstances its really sad it just messes up lifes,
i just hope he learns from what ever you end up doing and chooses to make a change to stop
like you say you cant get involed with his life you also have your own worries and a
business to run
also Alot of people keep saying "just sack him" this aint the 70s the problem is these days i think you cant just sack someone from a contract of employment that easily,