Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: gr cleaning solutions on June 24, 2012, 10:51:35 am
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Good morning all how long should you get out of a vac motor , i put a new one in last november and it blow already my machine is an extracta i phoned them up but they only give six months warranty had this new motor seven months which cost me £250 .
Is there anywhere else i could get a motor or will i have to go back to them for another one .Or is there anyone around Darlington on here who could help me
thanks Gavin
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I know they have to charge and make money , but there is no way you should pay 250 for a vac motor , you have a 7.2" motor , the 5.7" version has the same performance figures , I would get one of these 5.7 off e-bay ( low cost because they come from ameteks European plants , not shipped all the way from Mexico incurring duty etc .
You would need to make simple bracket adjustments to fit and wiring is just unpluging from the old inserting to the new .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ametek-Premium-3-Stage-Tangential-Discharge-Motor-5-7-240V-1500W-/180765040975?pt=UK_Vacuum_Cleaner_Bags_Parts&hash=item2a166fa14f#shId
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Ametek vac motors are rated at 500 hours. So you should get around 500 hours which is around a year worth of use depending on how much work you do.
The new 6.6 vacs are ment to last longer. I have no experance of those tho and your machine definatley wont have 6.6 vac motors lol
£250 seems very steep for a single vac!
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John
Have you tried those vacs? do they last?
Seems very cheap! They usually cost £140ish after VAT. Would hate to buy one for it just to last a few weeks! lol
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John
Have you tried those vacs? do they last?
Seems very cheap! They usually cost £140ish after VAT. Would hate to buy one for it just to last a few weeks! lol
I have four of them , but i haven't had a chance to use them to be honest ....
but i did kinda look into they're authenticity , if you jump to the end post on this thread ...
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=146016.0
The reasons they cost 140 etc from suppliers IMO , the ones labelled ' lamb ' come from Mexico , extra shipping , import costs , and the CC suppliers will want to charge whatever they think customers will pay .
Yes , like you say the OP could fit a 6.6 , reason i didn't suggest it , he would have to get vac tube fitted , welded to attach the vac hose , as the 6.6 doesn't have one
figured the hassle would put him off ...
there is room to fit two 5.7 in even the small extractas also , so perhaps a twin series install would be an option if he was willing to experiment .
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Good morning all how long should you get out of a vac motor , i put a new one in last november and it blow already my machine is an extracta i phoned them up but they only give six months warranty had this new motor seven months which cost me £250 .
Is there anywhere else i could get a motor or will i have to go back to them for another one .Or is there anyone around Darlington on here who could help me
thanks Gavin
Hi Gavin
if my memory serves me right you use an extract cx??
just a thought but paul wallace (durham) has an excell, scrubber,vac, solution hoses, wand and hand tool for sale on here for £1000
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I no longer fit 7.2" vacs to machines. They are too expensive and the 5.7" units give as much or a little better performance.
You will need three pieces of steel strip about 4 mm thick and 25mm wide. Cut them to length and drill a hole each end one for the motor and the other on the mounting bolts the old motor used. These will swing into place and the smaller unit will hang on these quite happily. I have fitted 4 machines this way. The vac hoses usually fit ok, if not good duck tape will adapt things.
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We replaced the larger vacs in our excel about a year a go as was having the same problem and costing a fortune to replace ,
It now has the smaller 5.7 vacs & no noticeable difference in performance,
They were around £50 each of eBay, replaced one recently and it had lasted about a year which suits me fine
Steve
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We have a customer with an Extracta machine that eats vac motors. He came to one after Extracta had fitted one and he thought he was being ripped off by them (his words) we fitted a replacement and it lasted about the same amount of time. We then found out that there was a bad batch of 7.2's and reckon both us and Extracta get them from the same supplier. We have now fitted a 5.7" for him and it's been in there almost a year now.
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We have a customer with an Extracta machine that eats vac motors.
I bet he suffers with indigestion!
;D
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I always thought that 7.2s were big heavy beasties that never justified their extra cost.
You are only going to get a certain amount of performance from a 1400-1500 watt motor.
Then they come up with a 6.6 but that is completely redesigned and has very different turbines in it.
When I set one up on the bench the same as I do the others and switched it on it blew everything off the shelf above it.
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Regarding those cheap Ametek motors, I've had about 3 of them, the first one got very hot and stopped working first time out the box, the other two were smelling of plastic and over heating also. By swapping brushes around I realised this was due to the new brushes which are ribbed and only have around half the contact area on the commutator, until they are sufficiently worn in.
However I have had other similar motors that haven't had this problem but, once you get the brushes right on these motors I think they can last just as long as others.
I've got a temperature gun, but if you don't have one, I would switch the motor on, wait maybe 5 mins maximum and if you're getting a strong melting plastic smell turn the motor off. I would then try and remove the ridges on the end of the brushes by some suitable method, so that the full area of the brush is on contact with the commutator.
It could be that the motors are designed to run hotter for the first few hours of their life but I'm not sure.
I believe the brushes are the main cause of nearly all vac motor problems, with them getting either too short, over heating etc. I've had many motors that have taken in plenty of water but after new brushes and a sanding down of the commutator they are fine, plus after taking the motors apart you find the water never reaches any electrical parts of the motor or any bearings.
Hope this possibly helps someone. If you learn how to regularly change the brushes then I don't see why these cheap Ametek motors shouldn't be alot more economical than paying over £100 for a motor.
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We have a customer with an Extracta machine that eats vac motors.
I bet he suffers with indigestion!
;D
;D ;D
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I have a 110v transformer and run motors for an hour on that before fitting. It seems to bed brushes in gentler.
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John Martin
Said other motors not spelt Ametek that were are for sale are the same but a mis spelling error
Woodbridge do one that I think is spelt Ametec I believe this might be from a diffrent factory .
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What transformer is that you use Kinver clean, and what wattage does it have to be rated at? I could do with one.
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Just an ordinary builders transformer with two sockets on the side.
I made an adapter with a 110v plug and a 240v socket.
I made a small board so it has a switch to control it with the unit under the bench.
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John Martin
Said other motors not spelt Ametek that were are for sale are the same but a mis spelling error
Woodbridge do one that I think is spelt Ametec I believe this might be from a diffrent factory .
Ian , i would have to guess as to the origins of woodbridge's ametecs ( with a 'C' ) but its likely a name they made up themselves , if u google ametec i shows up nowhere else .
Why ? perhaps if they're ' ametecs ' are European sourced Ameteks , they want to distinguish between those and the lamb ( Mexico ) ameteks so they can charge a premium for the latter .
Or the ' ametecs ' may be sourced from elsewhere ... i'v found at least one chinese source here ,
http://www.hshengfu.com/hengfu/en/main.asp
Any chinese vacs iv see have black plastic horns as distinct from the metal ametek italia ones on ebay ... however ametek and lamb ametek also use plastic horns on some models so u cant go by that .
Ametek have vac production in Italy , Czech republic , Chile and mexico btw.
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actually another option for running in at half voltage would be connect two vacs in electrical series for run in period , provided you have two , although good to have a transformer too .
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Thanks for all the replys guys going to have a look tonight on ebay and other site dont fancy payin £250 again once again cheers
Gavin
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Thanks for all the replys guys going to have a look tonight on ebay and other site dont fancy payin £250 again once again cheers
Gavin
The first ebay link i posted seems to sold out for now , although they may relist quickly ...
This one is similar ..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vacuum-MOTOR-ASSEMBLY-3-Stage-Tangential-1500W-240V-265-/350235934291?pt=UK_Vacuum_Cleaner_Bags_Parts&hash=item518bb03e53
You can just about make out ' made in italy ' on the sticker
Unfortunately the pic does not show the underneath , so i cant see if it has the vac connection , hako tube , you could contact him to conform , i got mine off this seller so he does stock them ' with tube ' the ones without just sit on a manifold , but the extracta needs a tube .
Im not sure of the origin of the ebay vacs with the white opaque plastic covers and plastic horn , so i would stick with these ones .
and make sure u order correct voltage 240 and 1500w as there are a few variations out there .
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I've had 2 of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vacuum-MOTOR-ASSEMBLY-3-Stage-Tangential-1500W-240V-265-/350235934291?pt=UK_Vacuum_Cleaner_Bags_Parts&hash=item518bb03e53
They were good motors for the 2 months they lasted, they have
a thermostic protection swith wired into them, which kept cutting
off on my Powrflite. The point of the perfect heat system is that
it runs the vac motors hotter to use the heat, so they were crap
on my machine. But with good cooling they may be alright.
They also drew 1700w :o with no load.
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What do think actually killed them in the end ?
you would think the powerflite could have external duct hoses going to the motor intake , and perhaps directing the hot output back towards the coils ?
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Yea I'd like to know what happened to it, I've just bought one :)
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i would only trust ebay vacs from accessory planet ;)
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i would only trust ebay vacs from accessory planet
Same here, he has only just re listed them over the last couple of days, did e mail him asking him why he didn't have any listed, like to keep a spare one on my van, only has about 3 left, there are all metal construction, rather than cheap plastic
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The ones i had the windings burnt out.
Usually buy 117123s from accessory planet also.
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But its a bit like saying i dont trust hondas from swindon ... i want one made in Japan
there may be regional model spec differences but they are all honda . :D
and these motors are all Ametek , im dammed if i will pay accessory planet 130 for the mexican 5.7 , especially as the 6.6 is only 10 more , id shoehorn that instead .
The Ametek Italia model for £55 is worth a punt , and while its worth noting AJBs experience , you would need more user reports to form an opinion on reliability ...
it may last well under conditions allowing adequate cooling , like this alltec elite with the silver duct allowing it the breath external air , or in models with motor top mounted up against a sidewall hole .
http://www.google.ie/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=471&tbm=isch&tbnid=B3g9e6P65dh9IM:&imgrefurl=http://www.jccarpet.com/sandia/sniper.html&docid=ZI9BciantEe2HM&imgurl=http://www.jccarpet.com/sandia/images/sniper.gif&
w=611&h=501&ei=7_XpT-nfCIa2hAf-puX6DA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=607&sig=115711998757526889568&page=1&tbnh=127&tbnw=153&start=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:69&tx=77&ty=53
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But its a bit like saying i dont trust hondas from swindon ... i want one made in Japan
there may be regional model spec differences but they are all honda . :D
and these motors are all Ametek , im dammed if i will pay accessory planet 130 for the mexican 5.7 , especially as the 6.6 is only 10 more , id shoehorn that instead .
The Ametek Italia model for £55 is worth a punt , and while its worth noting AJBs experience , you would need more user reports to form an opinion on reliability ...
it may last well under conditions allowing adequate cooling , like this alltec elite with the silver duct allowing it the breath external air , or in models with motor top mounted up against a sidewall hole .
http://www.google.ie/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=471&tbm=isch&tbnid=B3g9e6P65dh9IM:&imgrefurl=http://www.jccarpet.com/sandia/sniper.html&docid=ZI9BciantEe2HM&imgurl=http://www.jccarpet.com/sandia/images/sniper.gif&w=611&h=501&ei=7_XpT-nfCIa2hAf-puX6DA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=607&sig=115711998757526889568&page=1&tbnh=127&tbnw=153&start=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:69&tx=77&ty=53
the JDM spec EP3 civics manufactured in Swindon had higher quality control than those released to the UK market.
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[/quote]
the JDM spec EP3 civics manufactured in Swindon had higher quality control than those released to the UK market.
[/quote]
They exported back to Japan ? i had no idea ;D
bet they got all the extras too !
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We have a customer with an Extracta machine that eats vac motors. He came to one after Extracta had fitted one and he thought he was being ripped off by them (his words) we fitted a replacement and it lasted about the same amount of time. We then found out that there was a bad batch of 7.2's and reckon both us and Extracta get them from the same supplier. We have now fitted a 5.7" for him and it's been in there almost a year now.
Just wondering can you upgrade the extracta cx vacs to something with a bit more like the exel....
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We have a customer with an Extracta machine that eats vac motors. He came to one after Extracta had fitted one and he thought he was being ripped off by them (his words) we fitted a replacement and it lasted about the same amount of time. We then found out that there was a bad batch of 7.2's and reckon both us and Extracta get them from the same supplier. We have now fitted a 5.7" for him and it's been in there almost a year now.
Just wondering can you upgrade the extracta cx vacs to something with a bit more like the exel....
Lots you could do depending on your ability ... you have a single 7.2 vac , defiantly worth upgrading to twin vac for drying times and longer hose runs .
If your 7.2 vac in good condition you could find space to mount a 5.7 and play around with either connecting it to the 7.2 vacs discharge increasing your vacuum lift ... or putting a 'Y' splitter from the 7.2s vac input to the 5.7 increasing your airflow .
the second vac could do with its own on/off switch ... should be room on the switch panel to mount a small toggle ... or if you dont use the switch that turns on the scrubba socket you could utilize that ...
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Mismatching motors is asking for trouble.
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Mismatching motors is asking for trouble.
No mismatch :)
The 7.2 three stage has around 135" lift and 100 cfm , same or very close to the 5.7
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just an update , backend of last week pop into see an local motor repair shop he told me that my motor wasnt worth repairing as it wouldnt last long before it would go again . He ordered me the same vac motor so dont have to mess about making brackets and stuff £165 all in a lot cheaper than extracta ive just got to fit it now cheers for all the help and links and big thanks to john from aqua clean for the phone call and chat
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On a 7.2" vac unit-- Keep a rough note of the hours run. Check the brushes after 400 hrs. Some last considerably longer but some are worn out at the time.
They are easy to change and will make the motor last almost indefinitely if looked after.
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John - just to revive this thread - are these the motors you think are ok off ebay? -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tangential-3-Stage-1500-Watt-Ametek-Lamb-Vacuum-Cleaner-Motor-Assembly-/310588345023
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John - just to revive this thread - are these the motors you think are ok off ebay? -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tangential-3-Stage-1500-Watt-Ametek-Lamb-Vacuum-Cleaner-Motor-Assembly-/310588345023
Yes :) but then again , they seem to have not worked out well for others , so i would consider them a good punt for the price ...
The Mexican version is not a whole lot more .. so perhaps just go for those .
http://www.carpetcleanersstore.co.uk/category/motors
or depending on the machine ... Alltec are selling the HD Electro 5.7 on its site .
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its for a Scorpion triple vac
I used it yesterday and thought i could smell a faint burn when i switched it off. This morning when i turned one of the motors on the RCD tripped. I switched plugs thinking it maybe the customer electrics and the vac went on. Then when i came to turn the machine off again i could smell the same thing.
Thinking one of the motors could be on its way out, i took the tanks off when i got home and the one of the motors isnt turning on at all - the switch for it lights up but there is nothing at all happening with the motor. I swapped the switch to see if it was that but it still isnt coming on and the switch light still powers on. I am wondering if the motor blew completely whilst i was doing the job this morning and i didnt hear it blow as the machine was outside.
Can the motors blow completely so they dont turn on? I was expecting it to make nasty noises etc when it goes - not power off completely.
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PS - anyone tried these? -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251485204238?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Same motor ... ametek from Czech or Italian plants .
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Good morning all how long should you get out of a vac motor , i put a new one in last november and it blow already my machine is an extracta i phoned them up but they only give six months warranty had this new motor seven months which cost me £250 .
Is there anywhere else i could get a motor or will i have to go back to them for another one .Or is there anyone around Darlington on here who could help me
thanks Gavin
I use them machines ,the vacs take a bit of looking after, you need to change the bushes on them every 400 hours ,
if it an exel you use, vac one over loads vac two ,so you normally kill the second vac every year ,they are a bit over priced but you can change them your self no problem ,I myself would buy them off extracta ,no way would I get them off ebay,, this is just my opinion hope it helps :D
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thanks John
can motors blow so they just dont power on like mine has?
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thanks John
can motors blow so they just dont power on like mine has?
It could be just your brushes need replacement , but the whole thing could be toasted also .. its hard to tell :)
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if it were just the bushes i would of thought it would still whirr but arc
i have nothing at all so i assume the motor itself has gone?
its done 5 years work on the original motors and this is the first to go so its not done bad!!
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if it were just the bushes i would of thought it would still whirr but arc
i have nothing at all so i assume the motor itself has gone?
its done 5 years work on the original motors and this is the first to go so its not done bad!!
Ture , probably as well to change it ... they do loose power over time also im told
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i have ordered one of these -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251485204238?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
i will report back how i get on!!
from what i can see there are 3 wires - one of which is the earth. Is it possible to get the other two wired wrong or can they just be attached either way round?
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People go about cut price carpet cleaners and what a scam they are--- Then you buy the cheapest vac unit you can possibly find that is really not up to the mark.
It is amatek COMPATIBLE ie it comes from somewhere and is made roughly to the same dimensions so should fit???
Buy a genuine vac unit. Keep a note of roughly how many hours it has run ( x weeks @ z hrs/week ) and check the brushes every 400-500 hrs. When they have 1/4" left, change them. It is not difficult. Your vac unit barring accidents will run almost indefinitely. I have vac units that are 6-7 yrs old and still run sweetly.
I presume you change the oil in the van every so often? Brushes are the same, motors need a bit of TLC occasionally and they will repay it big time.
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People go about cut price carpet cleaners and what a scam they are--- Then you buy the cheapest vac unit you can possibly find that is really not up to the mark.
It is amatek COMPATIBLE ie it comes from somewhere and is made roughly to the same dimensions so should fit???
Buy a genuine vac unit. Keep a note of roughly how many hours it has run ( x weeks @ z hrs/week ) and check the brushes every 400-500 hrs. When they have 1/4" left, change them. It is not difficult. Your vac unit barring accidents will run almost indefinitely. I have vac units that are 6-7 yrs old and still run sweetly.
I presume you change the oil in the van every so often? Brushes are the same, motors need a bit of TLC occasionally and they will repay it big time.
They are Ametek ... , mine have Ametek stamped on the side .
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could anyone tell me is it possible to connect the live and neutral the wrong way round on the motor? the wire colours are different on the new motor and i am told it doesnt matter which one the live connects to but i would just like to confirm that before i fire it up!
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could anyone tell me is it possible to connect the live and neutral the wrong way round on the motor? the wire colours are different on the new motor and i am told it doesnt matter which one the live connects to but i would just like to confirm that before i fire it up!
red and black ? red to the live
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Thanks John, but the wires on the machine are black and white, so which of them is live!?
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Thanks John, but the wires on the machine are black and white, so which of them is live!?
So does your new motor not look exactly like the one in the picture from the seller , red and black there , does it have the same label ... if not it might not be the same as mine ... in any case just wire it up , id say you can do no harm , it might just blow insted of suck :)
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Sorry John, don't think I am explaining myself properly - been a long week!
The wires on the motor are red and black, the wires coming from the switch on the machine are black and white, so which one on the machine is live - white or black?
Clear as mud!?
Thanks for helping
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Sorry John, don't think I am explaining myself properly - been a long week!
The wires on the motor are red and black, the wires coming from the switch on the machine are black and white, so which one on the machine is live - white or black?
Clear as mud!?
Thanks for helping
I think vac motors are polarity neutral , go for white as positive and see what happens :)
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Will do, thank you
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Just googled it, looks like black is live
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all done, vac fired up ok and sounded sweet
will report back on reliability!!
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OK - UPDATE!!
Used the Scorpion fitted with the new vac motor on a job for the first time today.
All was well until just before the end of the job and the motor turned itself off. Thinking of the above comments i assumed it had got to its max temp and shut off. So i finished the job, got home for 10 mins and tried it again and it was working - it had shut down due to overheat (the other 2 original motors were still happily working on the job and the Scorpion doesnt suffer from overheating the motors.)
I had contacted the seller about the motor before i received it and he stated it was made by Ametek in Italy hence the cheaper price, but it was Ametek.
I contacted him today and he confirmed it does have a thermal shut off point - not mentioned in the advert and obviously lower than that of an original Lamb Ametek motor it states it will directly replace.
I have been told i will get a refund if i return it - we will wait and see, a claim will be made.
These motors arent rated the same as an original Lamb Ametek, you may get away with one on small jobs or in a spotting machine but use it on any substantial job and you will be having the motor shut down until it cools off and will fail altogether fairly soon due to being overheated all the time - which would explain the short life spans some people have had as stated.
See the other comments on the thread - it did the same in a CFR machine and was put down to how the CFR can heat the vacs up more. It isnt down to it being a CFR - put them in any machine and run it on anything other than small jobs and it will let you down.
Putting in a spotting machine - yes worth a punt, anything under good load steer clear.
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To be honest mate, its not worth the grief, I would put original motors in if I was you, taking Scorpions apart aint easy!
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yep, lesson learnt Stu - to be honest i knew i had done the wrong thing when i bought it. If i ever sell the Scorpion it dont make sense to have cheap motors in a good machine and it down values it much more than what you are saving on the motor!
Got an original on its way now - hope i get the money back on the other.
And you are right about taking the Scorpy apart - thats the only thing that makes me want to replace it ever - when i have to take it apart and remember what a hassle it is!!
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yep, lesson learnt Stu - to be honest i knew i had done the wrong thing when i bought it. If i ever sell the Scorpion it dont make sense to have cheap motors in a good machine and it down values it much more than what you are saving on the motor!
Got an original on its way now - hope i get the money back on the other.
And you are right about taking the Scorpy apart - thats the only thing that makes me want to replace it ever - when i have to take it apart and remember what a hassle it is!!
Bypassing the thermal switch is about a 30 second job ... i coulds post link if u like .
But really it says more about the Scorpion to me than the vac motor ... poor cooling , thats why other manufacturers fit fans etc .
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lol, ok John, we all know your dislike of Solutions and the Scorpion
So why havent the original Scorpion Lamb Ametek motors ever shut down due to cut off? Why have there been no reported issues of the Scorpion cooking motors (we all know the Jag does/did) Why are they overheating in other machines and lasting just months before dying? And why would i mess with the motor and void any warranty? Also bypassing the switch will just cause the motor to run over hot all the time and die very soon. I suspect they have a lower thermal cut off point to mask the fact they arent as good and in an attempt to get some lifespan out of them.
You have some very useful things to say - dont let your prejudices get in the way of misinforming people. These motors wont last and will overheat in any machine under load - your constant recommending of them does you nor anyone else any favours!!!
Maybe ok if you are only doing 10 minute jobs matey but for busy people like me they are no good ;D
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lol, ok John, we all know your dislike of Solutions and the Scorpion
So why havent the original Scorpion Lamb Ametek motors ever shut down due to cut off? Why have there been no reported issues of the Scorpion cooking motors (we all know the Jag does/did) Why are they overheating in other machines and lasting just months before dying? And why would i mess with the motor and void any warranty? Also bypassing the switch will just cause the motor to run over hot all the time and die very soon. I suspect they have a lower thermal cut off point to mask the fact they arent as good and in an attempt to get some lifespan out of them.
You have some very useful things to say - dont let your prejudices get in the way of misinforming people. These motors wont last and will overheat in any machine under load - your constant recommending of them does you nor anyone else any favours!!!
Maybe ok if you are only doing 10 minute jobs matey but for busy people like me they are no good ;D
I think you'll find a few posts back i said to go for the mexican version as its just a few quid more ... :)
The motor is doing what its suppose to do ... shutting down due to excessive heat .
Like you say it may have a lower switch setting or your original motors may not have a thermal switch .
You would not know without testing if removing the switch would cause premature failure ... it may still be functioning within a safeish temp range like the other motors .
I dont know the solutions guys or never dealt with them ... i might have more respect for them if they didnt talk BS on the Internet .
Like wise with Cross American , if they brought out a decent machine tomorrow i would give them the same respect or criticism as any other .
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Don't get me wrong John, I have grown to like your posts and you very often have some great info, I wasn't slating you, merely pointing out what I suspect of these motors and letting people know of my experience of them so they can make an informed decision before they buy. You did indeed point me to a place to buy originals and I did indeed use that place to purchase one today - thank you!! I don't blame any one else but me for going cheap - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If I ever replace a motor in a back up machine or spotter those cheap motors would probably be a good punt.
As regards Solutions, I again agree with you on some points. Their forum has indeed become a club for the ones who will kneel at the feet of their Gods and then be welcomed into the Old Gentleman's Club. Many will continue to do so, blinded by the light until they discover Chemspec and a like and join the dark side!
I believe they will indeed have a new machine for you to cast your ever technical eye over soon - can't wait for that!
As a Scorpion owner, I was once very much drawn to 'upgrading' to a Jag when it came out. Now, it had problems - well documented and mud sticks. But from what I understand a lot of the new 6.6 motored machines did and the Jag just got the most documented stick and struggled the most to resolve the issues. Or did it? Is it completely sorted now - I don't know, some have had no problems at all from the start so who can be sure.
My point is mud sticks - would I have bought a Jag when it first came out if I had the cash - u bet I would. Would I buy one now - no. What's that based on - hear say and other peoples opinions. I have never used it. Was there a bad batch of motors at the start? If so why all the 'upgrades'?
So John, I am not oppose to a lot of what you say - I maybe a Scorpion owner but I am more on the dark side than the light!!
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Ive just been speaking to a carpet cleaning mate of mine who lives in Stafford, we bought a brand new Storm, less than three weeks ago and its blown a vac already! He is taking it back to cleansmart tomorow
p s I have two Scorpions, one is 7 years old and has never blown a vac, the other is 18 months old and in use every day, I did have the Jag from new but had loads of problems with it, I asked for my money back or a new Scorpion, I got a new Scorpion which had to be built specialy as they had stopped making them, yes I fell out with Solutions as they tried to say I neglected the Jag and thats why it kept breaking down and Nick white did this publicly as he did it with ian Ribchester ! Realy daft realy he must of lost loads of sales over that, most people know I swear by my Scorpy and in seven years has been completely trouble free, yet the Jag was a pup from the word go
I hold Edd Valentine in extreemly high regard! Why ? Cos he is a gentleman and always gave me good service even for a machine which was well out of warantee
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Interesting info on the Storm - I really would have my worries on the 6.6 motors
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I do wonder how many storm owners have had problems with there machines?
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Touch wood. Its been over a year and a half now of constant use (used 6 days a week) and my Storm hasn't caused me any problems. Nothing replaced on it. TOUCHING WOOD!!
You'll find that if the machine has the adequate ventilation holes and a fan then the 6.6 vacs are fantastic.
That's why the jag had so many problems. Lacking the holes, fans and an overall poor design sold by a company that passes on blame.
Of course you'll have the odd one or two new machines that'll have a fault this is completely normal. I'm sure all manufactures have an odd machine being sent back.
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Glad yours has been reliable - nice to hear about machines working as they should
I think you are right, the Jag just wasnt vented enough for the new vacs and maybe still isnt as some are still dropping motors
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To be honest thats the first storm that ive heard about having a problem, but its how the supplier deals with it when its returned, will be interested to find out !
When the time comes in the not too long distant future I am still going for the Enforcer though !
Steve barnet was happy with his tripple but now uses the enforcer and is more than happy , I think that says it all for me
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I must commend both Cleanercarpets and Mr Stuart Clarke on their comments. Always spot on, respectful, and considerate.
All manufacturers have, as anyone in business like yourself, has a certain amount of problems. We like to refer to these as: "situations" rather than problems. Why? Because situations can be solved by small tweaks, adjustments, etc. without being blown out of proportion....but sometimes a problem can not.
Realizing that as a manufacturer we have hundreds of components, nuts and bolts that go into each and every machine and these are supplied and/or made by many, many OEM's with great reputations. (Please note: Those are the only ones we purchase from) However, there are times when they too may pass along unknown, (as only a example), a possible bad armature, a not so precisely milled concealed internal electrical field, a bad nut or bolt, and so on. Sometimes, but very rarely, components can go through our in-plant testing's and pass with flying colors before release.
I can attest to the fact that the earlier situations regarding the 6.6 vacuum motors in the JAGUAR have been solved long ago by making a few adjustments, not just by us necessarily, but by the actual OEM Supplier(s). It is my belief that they (Ametek) may have had some small internal refinement adjustments made on those particular motors. Further I think if I were to guess (and only a guess?) a large part of this was due to a certain part made in China of all places! They , IMHO, have since learned their lesson and eventually pulled that back to being American Made.
Now, there have been no problems as with the SCORPION(s) of the past.
That is the good thing and what we all work very hard toward each and everyday. Again, anyone of us in any business who has a certain amount of daily business, and especially in business for years acquiring more and more customers, has a problem, or situation crop up from time to time that must be solved. Otherwise, you don't probably have many customers. But, I can say that those earlier situations were intensely focused on, attended to, and solved.
But the good news, we continue to make strives in refinements with any of our products because that is why we are here. And because of you, we have stood the test of time and sincerely thank you for it.
Best to all and thank you for this opportunity of clearing this up.
Ed Valentine
cross-American corp.
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It takes a brave man to admit that there was problems with the early Jags,
unfortunately some Jag owners were publicly belittled for daring to say there was a problem.
I owned a Scorpion and never had a problem with it, maybe you tried to re invent the wheel with the jag
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Andrew,
Thank you for your post, however allow me to make one major correction. We did not want to reinvent the wheel (your words).
Please with due respect, re-read my post above which clearly states the facts.
I thank you kindly,
Ed Valentine
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Ed re read mine, I said maybe
You have admitted there was earlier problems, sorry situations
these situations don't help the poor guys who had them and lost valuable downtime
and then being publicly humiliated for daring to say there was problems, erm, situations
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Andrew
I was one of the Jag owners that Nick White TRIED to discredit, unfortunately for him I diddnt just start carpet cleaning when I bought his Jauar machineI had been in the cleaning business for some twenty years or more, further I had owned the Scorpion for nearly five years without the slightest hick up! Yet he did his very best to say I had neglected the Jag, and as Cleanercarpets quite rightly said, Mud sticks and I am sure there would have been a lot of potential carpet cleaners/ customers put off by Mr Whites unprofessionalism who did not want to end up in the same siuation as myself, I know of at least eight carpet cleaners that purchased alternative machines because of this and another six that wont do any further business with him again
I do feel for Ed Valentine, as he is caught up in all this, its not his fault that the only uk supplier of his products is a unproffesional numpty!
Stuart
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Andrew;
Yes, I did read your comments clearly, thank you.
There isn't even a carpet cleaner, or anyone in business that doesn't have brush fires from time to time, & therefore, anyone commenting otherwise is only dreaming or have other intentions. It is the goal of all of us to focus and work hard to solve those situations, and that we always have. Ametek has solved any situations; as we have. Further no one appreciates downtime Andrew, however, our UK Representatives were actively working on solving them with each and every customer. The communications were just terrific and always on a daily basis. Although it has to be the goal of any one in business to achieve 100% customer satisfaction, that percentage is next to impossible (as you know and understand) because of certain variables unfortunately out of your control. Hard to please everyone as hard as you try to.
For anyone to suggest that anyone deceived someone, lied, or etc in an effort to service their customers is unfair and complete nonsense. (This was not directed toward you btw) You, like us or our honorable representatives would never intentionally do that because of our long long years of dedication to this great industry. Our goal will continue to build and distribute quality industrial equipment and solve situations for all, if that is possible. SOLUTIONS and there customers have been just terrific and always understanding as the majority of Suppliers who have met certain standards all over the World; not just ours.
This is a great board with a lot of terrific Owner Operators who I'm sure can relate to my comments above. The very best to all of you and the very best to this Industry!.
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Ed - is there a new machine on the horizon?
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Ed - is there a new machine on the horizon?
When was there ever a new machine ... ;D
Its always the same machine with a different sticker .
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lol - naughty!!
Just another update on that cheap motor - i ran the scorpion with one 2 inch vac hose on it today out in the open and under no load - ie i wasnt cleaning anything, it was just to let the new motor and the others to run to see how long before shut off
12 minutes and the new motor shut down whilst the others were singing away - steer clear of them, no good
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lol - naughty!!
Just another update on that cheap motor - i ran the scorpion with one 2 inch vac hose on it today out in the open and under no load - ie i wasnt cleaning anything, it was just to let the new motor and the others to run to see how long before shut off
12 minutes and the new motor shut down whilst the others were singing away - steer clear of them, no good
Just cause the thermal fuse does not like the temp inside your machine dosnt mean they are no good ... take the top cover off the old vacs ... chances are they dont even have a fuse .
This is the fuse in your Italian Ametek ... inside the glass holder two bits of metal expand at a certain temp and break the circuit ... when the metal cools the circuit is good again.
To bypass ... see the red wire passes through the fuse before it connects to the post ... just cut the red wire before it enters the fuse and attach it directly to the post ... no more thermal cutoff .
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and then no warranty and a motor running hotter than the manufacturer wants - equals a dead motor altogether very soon
fact is if a Lamb Ametek motor can run all day long and last years, another motor sold as the same spec and a direct replacement to run in the same machine should do the same, otherwise its not the same spec and a direct replacement!!
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and then no warranty and a motor running hotter than the manufacturer wants - equals a dead motor altogether very soon
fact is if a Lamb Ametek motor can run all day long and last years, another motor sold as the same spec and a direct replacement to run in the same machine should do the same, otherwise its not the same spec and a direct replacement!!
It will run at same temperature as the other motors if they are all in the same machine ..
If you still have the old dead vac ... take off the plastic cover an see if has a switch .
Do you really think a company like Ametek are making perfect vac in one plant ... while in another plant they are making vacs to fail .
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Well who knows if its Ametek - it has zero markings
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Well who knows if its Ametek - it has zero markings
look for a small black stamp the side of the motor section ...
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just to update again, i bought a Genuine Lamb Ametek motor and fitted it last weekend - its ran all week with no problems and no cutting out
the seller has now added to his advert a temperature working zone for those cheap motors - beware as that will probably mean you wont get a refund if they cut out on you like i did